Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Horn Bows => Topic started by: superdav95 on February 08, 2025, 12:09:44 pm
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This is a little project im doing while i wait on my other 2 horn bow builds to dry up. its a xl korean style horn bow. im hoping for around 55lbs at 30". its length is 56" with steamed in siyahs. should be interesting to see how she tillers out. so far so good! still have sinew to do obviously. cheers
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That has a very pleasing shape so far...can't wait to see how it turns out. :OK
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Thanks Bob! Still have much more removals and shaping yet to do and more reflex when sinew gets added.
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Can't wait to see how she finishes out!
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Can't wait to see how she finishes out!
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Here is a project I have been working on for a little bit on the sidelines while working on my 2 other horn bows. It’s a modified Korean horn bow. Its core is bamboo and horn is It’s little longer than traditional Korean horn bows. It’s going to be around 54-56” depending on how things go with poundage estimates. I’m aiming for 50-60lb bow at 28”. So at 30” may be in the range I’m aiming for for full draw. If I feel like it can do more and isn’t stacking too bad I’ll go further then 30”. I’ve never made a Korean style bow before so some experimenting going on here. It sits around 33mm widest part out of handle then very slightly narrows to 25mm at the tips. I have some wiggle room for length at the tips. The thickness now is just around 9mm on main part of bending limb section with core wood and horn. The horn tapers towards the tips and thickness increases overall to about 10.5mm. I’m planning to sinew this with approx 65-70 grams of sinew. I’m estimating that sinew thickness after both layers will be around 2-3mm thick giving me an overall thickness around 12-13mm. Should be interesting where I end up with my poundage and how close I’ll get to my goal here. The tips of the core were soaked and steam bent the recurves. The limbs were then heat treated/belly toasted and rebound flat and grooved for horn. The nodes placement was a key consideration for me as well. So I used a pair of matching limbs from same section of moso pole bamboo that was prepped. The main bending portion of each limb is identical and have no nodes in that section. Over the last 3 days I have been preparing the backside of this little bow for sinew. I used 28tpi groover blade to score the surface after removing all of the rind. I then sized the back with sturgeon glue 5% for 12 coats until shiny. I know this is likely overkill but figured deep penetration of thin glue may save my bacon on this bamboo. After three days of sizing it looks good and clean and saturated. It’s ready for its first layer of sinew! I’ll be using 25% sturgeon glue for the sinew layers. I like to do premeasured bundle/strips for each limb. I’ve tried sinew many different ways and for me this is the smoothest/cleanest look. I pre soak and clean and comb out each bundle on a board just slightly wider then my limb. I let it just rest long enough to gel a little then apply fresh glue with little radiant heat to adhere well. I then smooth it out with my fingers. Can’t remember where I first saw this method or who to give credit to but whoever you are… thankyou! lol. I do like this method. Here are a few pics
(https://i.imgur.com/OeLXIhy.jpg)
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Looking good :)
I made a glass 48" Korean from a tracing I got from James Parker, 14" of reflex
It was a fun project 8)
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Thanks. Ya they are very interesting bow design. I made this one a little longer for my needs. I hope it doesn’t blow up!
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60grams of sinew so far. Will need a little more I suspect. Likely another 30-40grams.
https://imgur.com/a/ff2eGic
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Tape adhesive on the sinew?
Are you going to sand the sinew before the next layer?
For my information ;)
Looking good
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No adhesive just tensor wrap that can be stretched. It’s for horses for leg wraps. I got it at our local feed and farm supply. It’s awesome stuff and leaves a nice finish and mildly compress the sinew on more extreme reflexed bows. I’ve done then without too but I like the way this keeps everything tight
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Cool stuff 8)
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How long are you letting it dry before the second layer? :)
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I'm looking forward to seeing this finished. I think you might have got the sinew technique from James Parker, I remember him doing it on a formica cabinet board about 15 years ago.
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How long are you letting it dry before the second layer? :)
Hoping to do my last layer this week. Likely Thursday.
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I'm looking forward to seeing this finished. I think you might have got the sinew technique from James Parker, I remember him doing it on a formica cabinet board about 15 years ago.
Hmm. Yes possibly. I found it gives cleanest results. I was looking back in YouTube land and I think tengri bows may have been where I recall seeing it. He has a video showing similar method.
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added my last final layer of long strand sinew. This completes the sinew for the bow. total sinew approx 95-100grams. reflex at this point is around 13-14". i imagine it will gain a little more to about 15". we shall see. here are some pics of the final layer.
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Looking good ;)
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Dave, that is crazy cool. I'm amazed by the reflex bows that you and BowEd make...the horn and sinew just make it that much better. Thanks for sharing. :OK
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Thanks guys! It would be very cool for this one to perform well. We shall see.
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just a quick update on this little bow. Its all cured up now and so I had a day to get it bending. it was a humid hot day here so i figured it was ideal climate. i made a bow press to use in conjunction with the tepelinks forms to get the bend shaped in. the press worked great. I did some minor tweeks to the bottom limb but no scraping or heat correcting needed. it was spot on and it looks just liked i was hoping for profile. I will make a proper string for it soon and do some proper speed testing too once I get it out the full draw. right now it pulls 54 lbs at around 26-27". Im hoping to get it to 29" and be around the 60lbs. we shall see. It shoots amazing! was getting 194fps shooting a 400 grain arrow. zero handshock and feels buttery smooth even with the lighter arrows. couldnt be happier with the way it turned out. will get it finished up now. I started with about 13-14" reflex and then after stringing and shooting it a bunch it retained about 10-11".
a few short videos of the korean horn bow
https://youtube.com/shorts/1E-KZ8FZEGg?si=1_AyJigWWVOVCh-q
https://youtube.com/shorts/G-f65QMZv1A?si=yuq9epSGa4V5YMPW
https://youtube.com/shorts/liL0BlZioSU?si=ZdPmT8el4F_l8QiB
Heres some pics of the bend process
(https://i.imgur.com/7Z52K5X.jpg)
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Man Im so excited seeing this progress. I wish I had the talent and know how to make these. How much is the speed expected to increase as you draw it further?
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Thanks kevin! ya this was a fun build for sure. I love the simple elegant look of authentic korean bows. They just scream efficiency. I was aiming for a tamer version to be a compromise. it was a little tricky to get right but i got lucky and was diligent where it mattered. The speed will most definitely increase as i get closer to 29-30". Im so happy with this bow actually. I imagine it will be over 200fps shooting the same 400 grain arrow at 29-30". just an estimate.
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That is amazing Dave! :OK I probably did something wrong, but the first 2 videos are the same for me. The 3rd video is you shooting the bow. Thanks for sharing...
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That is amazing Dave! :OK I probably did something wrong, but the first 2 videos are the same for me. The 3rd video is you shooting the bow. Thanks for sharing...
Thanks Bob. Ya I just noticed that two of the vids are the same. all fixed now. Thanks.
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What a beauty. I love the look of these short horse-style bows. And holy smoke, 194 fps and you aren't even to full draw yet. Impressive!
Are you using a thumb release? I find that my shorter bows get kind of finicky using the med release, so I might have to suck it up and learn to thumb draw...or else stick to long bows.
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Dave, if its not too late, can you find out how far you have to draw to get to only 50 pounds, and test shoot a 450 grain arrow through a chrono? Im specifically wanting to see 50#@26 tested but not certain if that will logn up on your force draw curve.
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What a beauty. I love the look of these short horse-style bows. And holy smoke, 194 fps and you aren't even to full draw yet. Impressive!
Are you using a thumb release? I find that my shorter bows get kind of finicky using the med release, so I might have to suck it up and learn to thumb draw...or else stick to long bows.
Thanks WB. I’ve been practicing thumb draw on a cheap fg tartar style bow about same size as my Korean bow. It will be good to practice on until I get proficient enough to switch over to mine. The advantages are noticeable on shorter bows from what I’m told. I’ve been trying out store bought thumb rings but decided to make my own out of moulded leather. I may post a pic of it at some point on here. It work well and easy to use. My problem is switching from meditoranian/ western to eastern. The point of aim or sight picture is way off to me. I may be doing something wrong I think.
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Dave, if its not too late, can you find out how far you have to draw to get to only 50 pounds, and test shoot a 450 grain arrow through a chrono? Im specifically wanting to see 50#@26 tested but not certain if that will logn up on your force draw curve.
I will try. I don’t have any 450 grain arrows but will see what I can do with adding point weight to my 400 grains arrows. It would be very close to 50 at 26”. I suspect that the speed will be around the 165-175 range. I believe this is due to the efficiency gain with increased draw length on these shorter bows. They are not as efficient at short draws. I believe that if you were to take a 42”-48” bow that 26” at 50lbs would be faster as it’s closer to to it max efficiency. This is purely my opinion though based on my experience on building many shorter bows.
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Im very interested in the draw curve this bow has right now if you could put one together for me? I've been trying my best to make wooden bows as fast as horn bows, and this helps me out.
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That looks fantastic!
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Im very interested in the draw curve this bow has right now if you could put one together for me? I've been trying my best to make wooden bows as fast as horn bows, and this helps me out.
I know a little about horn bows, but I would thing pulling a bow 1" at a time on a tiller tree would not be very accurate because the sinew and horn would not act like a draw and release shot ( stretching and compressing for the length of time to record it) I THINK ???
Awesome bow :OK
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That looks fantastic!
thanks man. I realy need to finish this one up and pretty her up.
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Im very interested in the draw curve this bow has right now if you could put one together for me? I've been trying my best to make wooden bows as fast as horn bows, and this helps me out.
I know a little about horn bows, but I would thing pulling a bow 1" at a time on a tiller tree would not be very accurate because the sinew and horn would not act like a draw and release shot ( stretching and compressing for the length of time to record it) I THINK ???
Awesome bow :OK
yes. i agree. this would be the case for any all natural material horn bow or wood bow. less likely to be the case with modern laminated fg bows. Ive retested one of my horn bows a month or so ago and it had gained 10lbs of draw weight at 28" over just a few months. this bow had been finished for about a year. moisture plays a huge part in this. I could take this bow and draw it in ontario canada one day and then a few fly out to the much dryer alberta a few days later and draw with noticable draw weight increase. this is due to moisture. Many guys that go out to the salt flats find this to be the case and thus take several bows that range in weights to mitigate this gain or loss of moisture and still be at target draw weight. it would be difficult to get acurate draw force numbers that would last is what im getting at I guess. the horn bow is more like a living fluid moving thing that behaves differently when warmed up too. this would also affect then numbers. Ive been super busy witht he move and now tht that is done i can get my new shop in order and do some testing again.
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Dave, your photos come up as “not available in your region”, are they hosted on Flickr or anything?
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Dave, your photos come up as “not available in your region”, are they hosted on Flickr or anything?
Ya weird! I just rechecked them and they are all still working for me on my end. The photos are hosted by imgur. The video clips too which are hosted by YouTube are working. Not sure why you in are seeing that.
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little update on this little bow. Im trying to get this one finished up and its been good to get back at it. ive tken over the kitchen table again! lol. im doing a stagered pattern with birch bark wedges precut to match up. its time consuming but i love the tediousness of it. call me crazy but i do. the sturgeon glue at about 10% worked great for this and adds a benefit of being realy sticky with good strength and little more flex to it the hide glue. i tried to pre coat my bark inners surface first with glue but it was too this for this. The thicker peices were fine but i did not want thicker bark on this bow. the thinner the better for me on this one. it turned out that a single layer of the birch bark was perfect and less then paper thin too. I just applied the thin glue to each little piece as i laid it down. worked fairly well. making progress here in the pics. please excuse my chaotic table mess. there is a lot going on there i know!. lol. thanks for following along.
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Very nice bow, love everything about it!
Great work wit the birch bark backing!
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Thanks medicinewheel! Nice of you to say. This bow is coming along and hope to have it done this month fingers crossed. It’s not as highly reflexed as authentic Korean horn bows. I designed it as such being little more relaxed I guess. It’s a lot more practical for me to get it strung up and shooting too which is nice. I may sacrifice a little speed but time will tell how much in the end. So far so good and in the performance aspect it is also promising. It’s sort of a hybrid of a few different horn bows really. I would say a mix of Korean and a little Crimean and ottoman horn bows. I’m not really into making replicas per se although I may do some in the future. I like adding to existing designs more and creating something a little different and experimenting with hybrids. For me this keeps this obsession alive and kicking. Thanks for following along.
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here are some progress pics of this bow. I got the birch bark all done. im gonna use black thick leather tabs for my string bridges. ill be dong a black leather criss cross pattern for grip. ill use the a small piece of black ray skin for the arrow pass.
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It looks like a museum quality piece Dave...it's amazing. It's even better since you designed it to be more easily strung and used. A hunting bow. :OK
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It looks like a museum quality piece Dave...it's amazing. It's even better since you designed it to be more easily strung and used. A hunting bow. :OK
Thanks Bob! Very kind. I may try that.
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Gorgeous.
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Gorgeous.
Thanks man!
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Ok so I think I’m done with this bow. I got it all finished up the way I like. The video link below shows the bow in better lighting. I’ll post some pics here too. I lost my white string material somewhere on the big move. I’ll have to order some and study up on Korean bow strings. I will do a full draw pic upload in few more weeks as I introduced some moisture into the bow for sure when getting the birch bark applied. If you look back in previous pics and video clips on the progress build of the bow you’ll get and idea of the bend. Thanks for watching and following along on this one.
Video link
https://youtu.be/QlySIfZ2-yU?si=kiVjp2cg6bQAE43n
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Wow. Really, really nice bow Dave. Thanks for sharing your journey with us.
Bjrogg
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Wow. Really, really nice bow Dave. Thanks for sharing your journey with us.
Bjrogg
thanks BJ! very kind. its been a journey with this bow but its been good.
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Absolutely gorgeous, Dave. Can't wait to see it shoot.
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Absolutely gorgeous, Dave. Can't wait to see it shoot.
Thanks WB. Me too!
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That is quite spectacular, Dave. I look forward to seeing it strung and a shooting video.
Mark
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That is quite spectacular, Dave. I look forward to seeing it strung and a shooting video.
Mark
Thanks mark. Ya I’m looking forward to shooting this one again. It showed promise the last time I did some shooting with it.