Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: legend on September 03, 2025, 05:54:49 pm
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This is out of sheer curiosity regarding bend through the handle bows . does the design of these bows sometimes require the face of the back of the bow to be slightly rounded ?
when tillering is the whole of the belly tillered including the handle ?
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This is out of sheer curiosity regarding bend through the handle bows . does the design of these bows sometimes require the face of the back of the bow to be slightly rounded ?
when tillering is the whole of the belly tillered including the handle ?
rounded back required would be only if you were replicating a specific design. bend thru the handle is a generalized description of many examples.
since the type is all "limb", the handle area needs to be tillered to bend properly.
having less bend in the handle area and more bend in the mid limbs works well
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Once again thanks for your great information willie
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There is no absolute reason why it's better to round the back of a bow, or the belly for that matter. It's mainly a stylistic thing, or dealing with the natural crown of a narrow tree stave. You can go deeper into it, reasons like trapping, or crowned staves, and wood usually being stronger in tension than compression, theoretically advantages performance in some designs.
You can tiller the whole belly including the handle if necessary. It depends on the dimensions of the stave you start floor tillering, and the weight of the bow you intend. Unless you are familiar with the design, and species you might not have a good idea of how thick to go. In this case it's better to go with a thicker handle than necessary and tiller bend into the handle area later in the process. Have the handle bending too early and what usually happens later on is this section bends too much through the handle, and not evenly enough in the limbs, when you reach your intended draw length.
If you start with known dimensions of a bow that bends through the handle with a good tiller, you probably won't need to remove much wood if any from the handle area.
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it's better to go with a thicker handle than necessary and tiller bend into the handle area later in the process. Have the handle bending too early and what usually happens later on is this section bends too much through the handle, and not evenly enough in the limbs, when you reach your intended draw length.
+1
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+2 what Hamish said.
I like to leave the handle area thicker to start and get the mid limb bending then out towards the tip. Then I bring the bend back into the handle so I can feel a slight movement in the handle when I hit my full draw.
You can narrow the handle area to make the handle more comfortable and it would be historically correct.
If you use a tree stave you will have a rounded back. The degree of that crown will depend on the diameter of the tree. You can decrown the stave but that is something I don't like doing.
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Thanks willie , Hamish and Pat for the advice on these bows , I think its a sensible idea leaving the handle untill the tillering is done at mid limbs and out towards the tips .
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Regarding the BITH Bows , would I be right in saying that if you only want a slight flex in the handle rather that a full bend , once you have tillered the mid to outer limbs to the tips , its all really down to how much tillering you do at the handle as to how much or how little bend you want in them ?
With a BITH Bow is it still acceptable to clamp the tips down and put a 2" to 3" block under the handle area for a slight reflex whilst heat treating the belly ?
Thanks
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Unless you are trying to be historically accurate you can do whatever you want with this bow. Before you heat treat and reflex it be sure the tiller is spot on. Once you get the tillering done see how she shoots. Sometimes just by shooting a new bow the tiller can change.
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once you have tillered the mid to outer limbs to the tips, its all really down to how much tillering you do at the handle as to how much or how little bend you want in them ?
you are best off to tiller both the handle area and the entire limbs together at the same time. if you leave the handle area untouched untill after you tiller the limbs you will come in underweight.
just dont let the center bend too much too early, and if you notice set happening in the mid limbs before you get to full draw, then take off a touch more towards mid bow.
trace the stave profile on your tiller tree backboard before you begin tillering and every few inches,
hang a weight on the longstring and trace the bend again profile as you go
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once you have tillered the mid to outer limbs to the tips, its all really down to how much tillering you do at the handle as to how much or how little bend you want in them ?
you are best off to tiller both the handle area and the entire limbs together at the same time. if you leave the handle area untouched untill after you tiller the limbs you will come in underweight.
just dont let the center bend too much too early, and if you notice set happening in the mid limbs before you get to full draw, then take off a touch more towards mid bow.
trace the stave profile on your tiller tree backboard before you begin tillering and every few inches,
hang a weight on the longstring and trace the bend again profile as you go
All my early bendy handle jobbies got too much going in the handle too early and consequently came in far underweight (gave away a lot of kids bows), or else had super-crappy tiller and ended up in the campfires of shame.
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Thanks for your informative replies Lads .
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Last question , I promise on BITH Bows . I understand the design / layout of the bith bows but would it create any problems if the 4" handle section tapered up very slightly from the belly limbs , say 1/4" just to give it some bulk before wrapping it ? So the 4" handle section would be raised 1/4" ? Would it still be usable as a flexed handle ?
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So the 4" handle section would be raised 1/4" ? Would it still be usable as a flexed handle ?
you could make it a bit thicker and narrower or build thickness with a layer of cork
typically you would start with a width profile for the entire bow, iand reduce thickness to get the bend you want.
find a stave, take some pics of it on your tiller tree.
asking questions as you go will get more views and better hands-on type comments and suggestions.
the worst thing that could happen is that the stick might break (--)
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I've used heavy shoe sole leather to build up the handle area. Cork is another option like Willie said. That way I can feel a slight bend in the handle at my full draw. If you scallop in the handle area some on both sides it will also help make it more comfortable.
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Thanks willie and Pat . Yeh Pat my aim is to slightly fill the handle area out with some leather ( back and belly ) and wrap with either some red artificial sinew or some brown waxed thread . Just waiting for my piece of Ash board 6ft 6" x 2 1/2" . As stated previous I have the woodworking skills and the knowledge which Ive gained through previous builds and all the info I get from yourselves and others on here , so thanks .
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Right Lads , Ive received a really nice length of cut down ash board and after a great deal of thought about whether to build an American flat Bow ( on a different thread ) or build the BITH bow , Ive decided to go with the BITH bow but just want to say a big thanks to everyone that was kind enough to offer their more knowledgable advice on both threads . As ive said , I already have the woodworking skills but I really appreciate al the helpful advice on this forum . Looking forward to taking my time to hopefully produce a good quality bow .
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Good advice from above, I feel sure it will turn out good, can’t wait to see the updates and finished bow. Pappy
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Cheers Pappy , will do once Ive finished .
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Just realised that the length of Ash board ( which has a good straight grain ) I am going to use to make a BITH Bow of 64" TTT has a thickness of 1 1/2" exactly . As the 64" bith bow Im planning to make is going to have a thickness of 3/4" that leaves the exact same dimension board to make another bow . so what Im planning is by using the second length for another bow I would like to attempt to make a much shorter style bow , say between 50" and 55" bith / flat bow style with the following measurements , if anyone would kindly confirm for me that it would be practical .
Total length : 50" / 55"
Handle length : 4" / width 1 1/8" scalloped in
Width of limbs : 1 1/2" either tapering straight up to 3/4" tips / or parallel limbs to mid length then tapering up to 3/4" or 1/2" tips ???
Thickness on this short of bow ??? any suggestions
For roughly a 25" draw at 35lbs ?
Any suggestions or advice appreciated , thanks
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A good rule for a wood bow is make it two times the draw length plus 10% so your 55" would fit into that range. :OK
be sure your tillering is spot on.
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Those dimensions sound practical. I have an Osage and red elm in my shop, each about 40 pounds, that just need bells and whistles added and that’s about the dimensions they both have. My handles usually end up around 5/8 thick. I would guess with ash it would be just over to achieve the bend/stiffness I like at those dimensions provided it’s good dense stuff. Leave your 3/4” thickness in your handle until your out to 18 inches on your tiller then you could start to work some movement into that area slowly. I like to break the bow into thirds and taper the outer thirds.I do think 57” ntn would be more forgiving if you have the length but 55 ttt I’d doable with good material and a spot on tiller.
Mike
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Thanks Pat and Mike for your latest advice, this forum is a great help for someone like myself who hasnt a massive amount of experience in these things .
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Thanks Pat and Mike for your latest advice, this forum is a great help for someone like myself who hasnt a massive amount of experience in these things .
That is THE REASON THIS FORUM EXISTS!!!
There are a lot of us that make few bows anymore, but love passing it along. I am forever inviting someone over to make their own bow in my garage with me. And I am certainly NOT alone in doing this. Some guys, like Pappy, invite hundreds of people to show up for a long weekend and hundreds of bows get made!!! (It's called the Tennessee Classic. Ostensibly an open archery shoot, lots of us just show up and hang out in what has to be the best staffed, friendliest, and most expert bow shop in the world.)
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Nice to know , and the way it should be and the skills should never die .