Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: WhistlingBadger on December 16, 2025, 11:46:35 pm

Title: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on December 16, 2025, 11:46:35 pm
...I won't finish the title because this is a family friendly forum and all.

Same bow in this thread, if you want to see the early work:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,73411.msg1029915.html#msg1029915

Got it almost to full draw. 
Unbraced:
(https://www.fishforums.net/attachments/img_2300-jpeg.375194/)

25"
(https://www.fishforums.net/attachments/img_2298-jpeg.375193/)


Thoughts?

Also:  It's going to come in about 5-6# underweight for elk hunting.  What would adding another layer of sinew do to the draw weight, do you think? 
I'd really like to go whack an elk with this thing.

Thanks!
Thomas
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: Pat B on December 17, 2025, 12:31:04 am
What's the length, t/t? What is the draw length and draw weight now? How much sinew have you added to this bow?
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: sleek on December 17, 2025, 01:25:10 am
Kinkier than a garden hose wrapped around a lawnmower.

That tiller looks good considering the limbs each leave the handle at a different angle.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on December 17, 2025, 03:53:28 pm
What's the length, t/t? What is the draw length and draw weight now? How much sinew have you added to this bow?

It's 60" ntn, another inch or so tip to tip.  It has four layers of sinew.  Currently pulling about 43# @ 25".

Kinkier than a garden hose wrapped around a lawnmower.

That tiller looks good considering the limbs each leave the handle at a different angle.

Good one.  Mrs. Badger said it's kinkier than a presidential mistress.  I'm actually fairly tickled with how good the tiller looks, given where it started.  The right limb looks stiffer at full draw, but it's got more reflex unbraced, so I think it's working about as hard as the left.  And some of the spots on the left limb that look like they aren't bending are either knots that I left stiff on purpose, or little reflex kinks that straighten out rather than bending into deflex. 

Just wish I hadn't had to remove so much weight to get there.  I might try to get it to full draw  27" tonight and see what the weight is looking like.  I'd like it to be at least 50# to hunt elk; 55 would be better.  I'm guessing it'll be fairly close but a little under.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on December 18, 2025, 01:00:03 am
Came out 45# @ 27".  Looking forward to putting some arrows through it once this wind dies down.

(https://www.fishforums.net/attachments/img_2303-jpeg.375215/)
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: Hamish on December 18, 2025, 01:13:21 am
Is that one of those new trans or somethink bows ie  Identifies as straight but is really crooked?
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: Del the cat on December 18, 2025, 06:11:40 am
I made a Yew stick bow that looks very much like that for one of my field archer chums. He enjoys the quizzical looks and comments he gets from fellow archers.
Del
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on December 18, 2025, 11:12:52 am
Is that one of those new trans or somethink bows ie  Identifies as straight but is really crooked?
I think it's a bonsai tree that identifies as a bow.   ;D   )-w(

I made a Yew stick bow that looks very much like that for one of my field archer chums. He enjoys the quizzical looks and comments he gets from fellow archers.
Del

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that at the next shoot.  I'll try to post a back picture tonight.  The only places the string aligns with the limbs are at tips and the handle.  It'll be interesting to see how it shoots.

Last night I wrapped the biggest knot with sinew and hide glue, since that's the most likely place for it to come apart.  I plan to put a few arrows through it tonight if the weather is decent.  Stay tuned...
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: Pat B on December 18, 2025, 11:25:13 am
At 60" I don't think you can shorten it at least not much. Maybe you can take an inch off of each tip then narrow the tips to reduce tip weight. With 4 layers of sinew any more would be counter productive but it the sinew hasn't been on for long maybe it will pick up a little weight as it dries more., that is if you used hide glue for the sinew. With it at 45# now you might just make a 50# bow, or close if all the above mentioned changes are successful.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on December 18, 2025, 12:04:44 pm
At 60" I don't think you can shorten it at least not much. Maybe you can take an inch off of each tip then narrow the tips to reduce tip weight. With 4 layers of sinew any more would be counter productive but it the sinew hasn't been on for long maybe it will pick up a little weight as it dries more., that is if you used hide glue for the sinew. With it at 45# now you might just make a 50# bow, or close if all the above mentioned changes are successful.

Thanks, Pat.  I think I'll just leave it be.  I'm hoping the juniper-sinew combo will shoot hard enough to hunt with even though it's a little light.  If not, it was a good learning experience.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: Pat B on December 18, 2025, 01:26:15 pm
Yeah, it's like trimming sideburns, you just have to know when to stop.  :OK
Looking forward to seeing your elk on the ground next fall.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: bjrogg on December 18, 2025, 04:48:37 pm
I think it looks great WB.

How long has the sinew been drying? Maybe it will gain a little yet?

Is it to late to recurve the tips a little?

Bjrogg
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on December 18, 2025, 07:06:00 pm
Sinew's been drying for about a month and a half, so I doubt it'll get much stronger.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on December 18, 2025, 09:44:27 pm
Belly and back pictures:
(https://www.fishforums.net/attachments/img_2307-jpeg.375225/)

(https://www.fishforums.net/attachments/img_2308-jpeg.375226/)

Put about 20 arrows through this freak of nature tonight.  It looks funny but nothing wrong with the way it shoots!  It seems to like heavier arrows.  I plan to put a few of different weights through the chrono this weekend if the weather stays decent.  Once I find the sweet spot on weight, I'll try to build some that are tuned right and start shooting this thing in earnest.  I figure about 200 arrows will give me an idea of whether it's worth doing the finish work and putting a snakeskin on it.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on December 20, 2025, 03:14:46 pm
Did a little shooting through the Chrono today.  This bow is spitting 600 grain arrows (all I have at the moment) at 125-130 fps.  For a bow that's only pulling 45#, that seems pretty fast to me.  I'll have to get some 450-500 gr arrows built and see how they do.

Overall?  I'm really pleased with this bow!
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: Robert Pougnier on December 20, 2025, 06:47:39 pm
That is a heck of a bow. With that amount of character going in so many different directions it must have taken ages and lots of care to tiller! Really nice job.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: bjrogg on December 20, 2025, 07:36:17 pm
Really like it WB.

Bjrogg
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: superdav95 on December 22, 2025, 02:42:20 am
That’s quite a feet to get a nice shooting bow like that out of such a character stick!   Well done and I would count that a win! 
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: bentstick54 on December 22, 2025, 09:51:02 pm
I’ve built a couple of Crookedsticks before, but nothing like that. Great job of turning that piece of wood in to a working bow. Very impressive.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on December 23, 2025, 12:34:13 am
Thanks, guys.  When crooked wood's what you have, crooked wood is what you use!  If I ever get hold of a straight piece I'm not going to know what to do with myself.   ;D
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: Pappy on December 23, 2025, 08:39:13 am
Nice job WB, should do the trick with good sharp broad head. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on January 02, 2026, 11:17:13 pm
Put some bull snake skins on this today.  Let 'er dry for a week, wax it down, and start tuning up some hunting arrows for it...
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on January 04, 2026, 01:00:07 am
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEi2Ht6UpKcqzyFE14S9Qsyhu8iq_Ea5wuBGLerflhM-v6I0J3DqEN1kxA1l0GhiD75UadMHVB_j40IxMjHzDCrHriToCwBvFHEVqJeRKZfB-UruQOLmst-kd4avtTx89qGai-5KHFVUm1OE7gs4v3DfLSIeYqcLx6y2sHdhHkOWACEolWQ0ue_hdnAGQHg)
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: bjrogg on January 04, 2026, 09:14:02 am
That is a wiggly whistling badger.

Nice work Thomas.

Bjrogg
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: superdav95 on January 04, 2026, 11:34:56 am
Wow.  Looks really good with the skins on there.  Nicely done man!
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: Robert Pougnier on January 05, 2026, 09:55:08 pm
Looks amazing! Like, it's alive....freaky cool!
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: JW_Halverson on January 06, 2026, 10:44:15 am
Those skins really made that bow POP! But as much as I love the look, I really have a fondness for the species, so I don't molest them. I have to settle for roadkills or trades.

Thanks, guys.  When crooked wood's what you have, crooked wood is what you use!  If I ever get hold of a straight piece I'm not going to know what to do with myself.   ;D

That reminds me of someone that long ago stopped posting here, George Stoneberg from down Texas way. That fool spent more time and effort on staves that wouldn't even BURN STRAIGHT and turned out some crazy character bows in the doing. As I got to know him I found out why he was always working with bottom of the barrel staves....he was giving away all the good stuff! Good ol' George, big hearted feller.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on January 06, 2026, 11:09:09 pm
Thanks, Robert.  I agree, it's pretty weird, and it does look like a snake.  One of my friends suggested I not leave it lying around on the ground at antelope camp, lest it get blown away or chopped with a shovel.   ;D

Those skins really made that bow POP! But as much as I love the look, I really have a fondness for the species, so I don't molest them. I have to settle for roadkills or trades.

Thanks, guys.  When crooked wood's what you have, crooked wood is what you use!  If I ever get hold of a straight piece I'm not going to know what to do with myself.   ;D

That reminds me of someone that long ago stopped posting here, George Stoneberg from down Texas way. That fool spent more time and effort on staves that wouldn't even BURN STRAIGHT and turned out some crazy character bows in the doing. As I got to know him I found out why he was always working with bottom of the barrel staves....he was giving away all the good stuff! Good ol' George, big hearted feller.

I tend to agree about bull snakes.  As snakes go, I really like them.  But then I kind of like rattlesnakes, too.  But wow, those bull snake skins make good bow backings.  Fortunately they're smart enough, and camouflaged enough, that one doesn't get a crack at them very often.  I think I've killed three of them in my life, and probably let a few more than that go their way.

Love the story about George.  I wish excessive generosity were my problem, instead of a simple lack of good wood.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on January 17, 2026, 01:10:29 am
Two weeks after adding the snake skin.  It lost most of its reflex and has been slowly gaining it back.  I assume the moisture from the hide glue loosened up the sinew a bit.  It's still losing about half a gram of weight per day.  Once the weight stabilizes, I guess I can start shooting it again.  Really looking forward to getting this one polished up, waxed, and a handle wrap on it.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: Pat B on January 17, 2026, 12:52:46 pm
Give it plenty of time to loose the added weight. The snake skin is like a vapor barrier so the moisture has to go into the wood then dissipate  from there.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: WhistlingBadger on January 17, 2026, 01:07:34 pm
Give it plenty of time to loose the added weight. The snake skin is like a vapor barrier so the moisture has to go into the wood then dissipate  from there.

...and juniper seems to take longer than hickory for this, probably because it is so resinous.  It actually kept a steady weight for almost a week before it started losing weight.  The only indication I had to excess moisture was the loss of reflex.  If I had started pulling it too soon I probably would have ruined it, or at least lost a lot of power.  Something to remember for the future.
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: JW_Halverson on January 19, 2026, 11:34:39 am
So many people have poo-poo'd me over the years when I tell them to go slow waiting to get the last of this added moisture back out of the finished bow. Some of them should have known better because they arent new to making bows.

I was an acolyte of the "Sinew Everything Cult" when I was new to making bows. I'd get the sinew dried for a week or two and then go to finish tillering. A few months later the tiller would be all out of whack and I'd have to re-tiller all over again, resulting in a lower than desired draw weight. Someone in here told me to wait longer, so I waited about 6 weeks after sinewing. Not much of a better result, I still needed to retiller yet again about 5-6 months later. Eventually my thick skull wore a hole from running into the same brick wall over and over again and I started leaving a sinewed bow to cure for at least 6 months. Whenever possible, I lay the bow out in the sun on warm days to speed the process, sometimes storing it in vehicle parked in the sun to mimic a heat box. I cannot imagine how much longer a proper curing out would take living in a more humid climate!
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: superdav95 on January 19, 2026, 03:34:56 pm
So many people have poo-poo'd me over the years when I tell them to go slow waiting to get the last of this added moisture back out of the finished bow. Some of them should have known better because they arent new to making bows.

I was an acolyte of the "Sinew Everything Cult" when I was new to making bows. I'd get the sinew dried for a week or two and then go to finish tillering. A few months later the tiller would be all out of whack and I'd have to re-tiller all over again, resulting in a lower than desired draw weight. Someone in here told me to wait longer, so I waited about 6 weeks after sinewing. Not much of a better result, I still needed to retiller yet again about 5-6 months later. Eventually my thick skull wore a hole from running into the same brick wall over and over again and I started leaving a sinewed bow to cure for at least 6 months. Whenever possible, I lay the bow out in the sun on warm days to speed the process, sometimes storing it in vehicle parked in the sun to mimic a heat box. I cannot imagine how much longer a proper curing out would take living in a more humid climate!

so glad you said this!   Ive noticed this as well.  I use the tried and true method of monitoring weight loss over an extended time indoors in an air conditioned environment. measuring mass loss is a good method and safe.  once i get to the point where the bow stops loosing and fluctuates by gaining in the very slightest and lossing again i know im very close.    this is how I eventually realized that this is a very long process and cannot be rushed safely.  sure Ive put bows into a hot box/warm box for a few days which helps but it still takes longer to get deeper moisture out of a finished vapor barriered bow.  I think i would also agree with 6 months as a minimum is a safe rule of thumb on sinewed bows.  you may see faster times in really dry climates.  I am monitoring the weight on a bow now that i recently finished up and it is still loosing mass after reintroducing moisture to the sinew for finished covering.  I know that if I were to string it up now i risk seeing what appears to be an uneven tiller and wanting to change or correct it.   
Title: Re: Tillering advice: This thing is kinkier than...
Post by: bjrogg on January 19, 2026, 04:46:08 pm
Yes moisture is definitely sinews kryptonite . It can really soak it up and once you cover it with a waterproof seal, the only way it can dry is very slowly.

I don’t like bending one without sinew for a couple weeks after applying snake skins.

Bjrogg