Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: jameswoodmot on February 08, 2026, 02:57:30 pm
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So my laminates have started over as I found out the hard way my cascamite had gone off and my yew is still drying. My 100lb roving bow still isn’t down to low enough moisture so I started another bow!
I’ve been waiting for the right elm stave to practice sinew backing. This one is 43” from the top of a sapling I took down. 1 5/8” in the middle down to 1” at the tips
Gave it a cook over coals, it’s ready for a short string.
It’s got a little bit of snakeiness and a little knot in the middle and quite high crown. Are these likely to cause an issue?
My tendons are roe deer leg tendons so pretty short but it’s all I can get.
Any suggestions as to weight of sinew and how many layers? I know it’s an open ended question but it would be good to have a guide for the first one
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Little knot and the reflex
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It’s a great candidate! What are your longest strands? I would lay down a brick pattern with shorter sinew strands. This allows for staggered and methodical approach to laying it down. I measure in dried pounded and stranded sinew bundles. I then lay down either a single combed bundle premeasured by dry weight for each limb. I save the shorter strands for over the handle area to overlap a bit. The brick wall pattern would be good for shorter strands. Ask away any questions. Lots of experience guys on here.
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I’m going to be watching this one to. I still haven’t done a sinew backed bow. I know Dave knows a lot about not only applying it, but also preparing bow for it, making glue for it. And knowing how to use it all.
Bjrogg
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Thanks guys!
Averaging about 6-7” long, tearing it up now.
I’ve found if I shred it too much it starts to turn into a curly mess so I’ve left it slightly coarser.
Going to use commercial hide glue bought as dried granules.
I was thinking about tbb with the diagram of the brick pattern. Are two layers ok for this or would three thinner layers be better? I’m thinking also that because of the crown that perhaps applying slightly more to the centre of the crown and less to the outsides.
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If it were me I would really clean the sinew very well. Your hide glue will work just fine. Separating bundles of strands into short medium and long can work well if using a brick patters. I would measure the amount of sinew you want for each limb. The last couple I did that were a little longer then your bow here each took about 70 grams dry. So basically equal mass in glue general rule of thumb. Depending on your glue and how it’s done can be a little less glue but risky. I always mix up a little more then I need at approximately 25-30% strength. If using granule glue just start with small mason jar with 75 grams of water and then add your granules till you reach 100 grams. This will give you 25% glue. If preparing the back for sinew I use a fine toothed hacksaw. And run parallel grooves up and down both limbs. I then take a stainless wire brush to clean out any debris. I size coat with 5-10% glue about 10 times. This allows the pours of surface to really open up to accept the glue and adhere well for sinew. Basically coat with a brush letting it dry to the touch warming slight the wood. It will be shiny. It may be overkill for sinew but you won’t regret taking the time to get it sized well prior to sinew. Measure each pile for each limb to be as prices as you can to not end up with way more sinew on one limb then the other. I comb my sinew and clean it well with my fingernail its entire length dry first to pull into finer strands. I then comb it with a dog brush to even finer strands. Doing this will give a very clean surface. These bundles when layed down can be smoothed out with fingers dabbed in some water. I use a heat lamp to keep things warm aimed at my work. Another trick I’ve done with brick pattern sinew to get a smooth finish is to let the sinew gel up well and start to just be dry to the touch on surface only and then wrap it is with a t shirt stripped out or some sort of bandage. I don’t use tensor bandage as it has a little too much elastic but instead I use horse leg wrap. This stuff is very thin and leave virtually no wrap marks and compresses just enough the sinew to make it smooth even with brick pattern or laying it down. Works well. I’ve posted on this method using wraps. If you search my yew bow builds last year or so I show it. I know it’s there I just sent link to someone else recently with similar questions. Anyway. Don’t be afraid to get messy. The sinew will stick to you and be like playing with wet spaghetti noodles. Is you sinew fairly clean when pounded up? Leg tendon is good for giving clean sinew dry. There will be some pieces that will have extra bit that would need to be washed and combed for best results.
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Fantastic thanks Dave you’ve already answered many of my questions.
When you say is it clean are you referring to the oily/residue or how cleanly the stands come apart? It definitely has some oiliness to it it I don’t have a lot to compare it to as I have only used one piece of roe back strap before. I have pulled out the short strands where the tendon splits into branches and done my best to pull out any short bits.
I will strip it down further into smaller pieces and I doing so sort them into length (currently between 5” and 8”)
What do you recommend washing with?
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I use a dawn dish soap. I wash it well in Luke warm water. I’ve also soaked my bundles overnight for some of my moose backstrap as it has bigger strands. I use a small stainless steel brush for final brushing to root out the clumpy bits that are sinew and remnants of casing. The soap will help cut the oils too. Back string your bow too when you lay it down. You can do one good layer or 2 smaller layers. I’d let it dry a week or so between. This may also give you the chance to fill in any voids or sand down any clumpy spots. Keeping all the fibers is key to not have the fibers twist when drying under top layers of fibers. I like to comb it the flip it and comb it again to be certain all the fibers are parallel
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Thanks again!
Man, my hands know I was shredding sinew last night!
I’ve got 46g (1.6oz) of long 5-8” and 11g (0.4oz) of 3-5”. 2-2.5oz seems average for a 60” bow so I should have plenty there. As it’s Elm I would rather not over power the belly.
Later I’ll go through it all and sort the long bundles into two sizes and pull the longest pieces out of the short pile. Break down any larger looking bits and give it a brush through to pull out any stragglers.
I’ll get this bow to brace height and a bit further, score up the back with hacksaw blade, clean.
Does the sizing need doing at the same time as the sinewing or can I size one day and then re wet it and warm it back up again?
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Yeah is sinew is about as tough on the hands as it gets!
That's about the amount I added to my 60" hickory bow and It pulled an inch of reflex on it's own initially as it cured.
I've had no problem doing either. I prefer to let the sizing dry but you can size it just before you apply the sinew too. If the back seems to absorb a lot of the glue you could give it a couple of coats to make sure there's a nice solid base for your first layer to key into.
That's looking great so far and I can't wait to see how it turns out. Nice job!
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Thanks again!
Man, my hands know I was shredding sinew last night!
I’ve got 46g (1.6oz) of long 5-8” and 11g (0.4oz) of 3-5”. 2-2.5oz seems average for a 60” bow so I should have plenty there. As it’s Elm I would rather not over power the belly.
Later I’ll go through it all and sort the long bundles into two sizes and pull the longest pieces out of the short pile. Break down any larger looking bits and give it a brush through to pull out any stragglers.
I’ll get this bow to brace height and a bit further, score up the back with hacksaw blade, clean.
Does the sizing need doing at the same time as the sinewing or can I size one day and then re wet it and warm it back up again?
Ya it’s hard on the hands. The way I do sizing for sinew prep is heating the bow slightly to open up the pours to better accept the thin glue. I let it dry to the touch each time and with a little warm heat. Radiant heat. I use a hot plate burner. Do not over heat. If you do see it bubble up let it dry and scrape it off and restart. I go as many times with warming it and adding another size coat till it looks shiny but still thin. This can happen on same day as laying sinew. I would scrape the back and size coat the same day. Sinew can wait to be done as long as you want after sizing. Just wet it slightly with warm water just before starting to lay your bundles. It’s also good to have a system written down. You’ve spent all that time and energy get to this point so keep good notes. I like to draw out a diagram even of how i plan to lay out my staggered bundles with check boxes. This way if something happens and I have e to leave and come back I can pick up where I left off. Notes are good to keep for future builds too. I’ve often referred to my old notes as my memory is t what it used to be and I also can spot irregularities later to be improved upon. Sounds like you made some progress. Don’t worry about measuring out too much glue. You can always freeze it to be used later. When you are about to lay sinew it will all be laid out in measured bundles that are damp, clean, combed straight and brushed of debris. I dip my bundles right down into the glue and squeeze out the excess glue and lay it down. Best of luck and keep us updated.
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The first couple of coats of size is going on.
Got it braced today and the back scored with hacksaw blade. Had a bit of an issue with it getting fluffy as I wasn’t diligent enough keeping the lines straight but I got it cleaned up. Degreased with isopropyl alcohol.
It looks like it’s getting pretty well soaked in already.
I’m sorting my bundles for sinewing tomorrow.
I’ve got about 1.6 oz. I was counting strands to groups of 6 which quickly became obvious it wasn’t enough so I doubled it to 12 and for the one limb Ive got over 50 bundles. Does this seem reasonable, should be the bundles be bigger or smallr? I imagine smaller bundles will give a better backing at the expense of more time?
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Those strands will work but the finer you can get the strands to in dry form it will save loads of works and make combing them later when wet. The ends tend to be clumpy and can hang up your comb even when wet. The finer you get the sinew the better imo. It will give cleaner more uniform layer too. What ends up happening often is crossed fibers in the under layers of your bundles the create voids when it drys. The key is to get it combed well which means combing through the hard clumpy bits at the ends. In dry form I use my fingernail to scrape some of the end bit as good as I can prior to washing. Your grooving looks fine and does not need to be perfect and straight even. So long as it’s cleaned and free of any scrapings debris in the grooves to create possible air voids. Size coat till the surface is saturated with glue. Heat slightly to open the pours a little will help. Not too much so as to have oils raise to
The surface like in the case with oily woods like Osage. 1.6 ounces is on the lighter side but could still work fine if you place it on critical spots. I would lay around 50-60 grams so closer to 2 ounces. I know it’s a short bow and if only looking for a little increase in weight or more for protection for a longer draw perhaps you’ll be fine. I certainly would feel like any more than 60 grams would be needed. The more smaller bundles could be more work for sure and may not be necessary. You would smooth out with you fingers or the back of your comb anyway to make smooth. Make your life little easier. It will still work. Just stagger the bundles and blend them together as you lay them. If it seems lumpy still wet your hands and flatten it down more as needed. You will hear little air pops as you do this. There is benefits to laying you first strip down the middle of each limb as you add to the sides to blend. You will get a feel for it. Just have a tub of water for your hands near by when laying. I’m actually doing a little Osage 48” recurve right now! I’ll see if I can take some video to post later.
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Ok I’ve just shredded a couple more tendons which has given me 12 ish more grams. I don’t want to use any more as that’s half of my sinew and I have the other half of this stave still.
I’m going to leave the strands as they are, honestly I’m bored of messing with them now. It’s just taken a fraction of the time to do those two extra tendons and now I know how it’s works when I do the next ones I’ll be able to shred them finer in less time. Will be interesting to see the difference between fine and less fine sinew. If this one’s a real munter I’ll cover it with a snake skin or something.
I made a right balls up of weighing out the strands and I’ve lost all faith in my kitchen scales so I’m going to get and get my micro scales from the workshop and also a halogen heater. I think I should have warmed the back more when I put the first layers of size down as I think I could have soaked in more.
Thanks for your help Superdav, a video would be awesome if your hands aren’t too sticky!
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James. I have to apologize. I had it in my head that this bow was longer than 43” and wider. I think you’ll be fine with what you got. It’s all depending on how much more you want to add draw weight wise. My 48” 1” wide Osage recurve bow will be getting about 50-60grams fyi. I’m hoping to get it on in one layer but we shall see how it looks as I get doing it. I’m not going all the way to the tips either due to the recurves so it may be closer to 50grams. Just a guage for your bow you may be fine with 20grams per side with an overlap at the handle. I’ll get a video together and post it here tonight hopefully. Sinew strands can be tedious to deal with and sort. It goes quicker like you say with more experience doing it. I will detail a bit on this in the video too.
Link for dry processing of sinew
https://youtu.be/rxbb8AEm-to?si=pcbKavkyEHwgRvgU
Link for wet processing of sinew.
https://youtube.com/shorts/5AVDs6n8Ltk?si=iFPllbIGKwRpMk1d
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Brilliant!
No worries, I’ll go back to 46 grams and I’ve got some processed ready to go for the next one. I have no reference for how much sinew will give how much extra draw or draw weight so I’ll start there and take my notes and then work from that for the next one. Mostly I just want more draw length for now.
I’ve got my bundles re sorted. I weighed them out this time which was much better and quicker, 2 grams per long bundle and 1 gram per short bundle.
My plan is to put a centre strip down with 1.5gram bundles on the tips, the run a strip of short strands along both edges and then fill in the gaps with long bundles. Keeping it slightly heavier along the crown and around the middle. I’m going to do one heavy layer. The strands in the bundles vary a fair bit in length which should make for a good overlap
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That's looking great!
I like your system for reverse bracing it. Looks like you glued some wood at the tips on the belly side to tack on some length with extra nocks to have access to the whole bow when it's reverse braced? Good thinking. I will try that next time.
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Robert, yeah that’s exactly what I did, I just super glued them on. I got a little crack under the nock the first time I braced it so I’m going to give them a bit of a sinew wrap under them, didn’t want the string in the way. Also got the double string wjth a pencil in it so I can just twist it up as it reflexes.
Well, I did it! Looks a right mess at the moment 😂
So I did one limb then the other, not sure if that was the best way, next time I think I will do a row at a time maybe. It felt like a lot of sinew to get on in one go, and I got a little confused about where to put some of the bundles as I didn’t keep them the same width as I spread them out. Over all I think the placement is fine. I had two short bundles left over which I couldn’t work out where to put so I broke them into smaller bits and I was able to use them to fill in a couple of little gaps
The glue was much stickier than I expected, I think it’s a thicker mix than I’ve seen people use before and I struggled to get it as hot as I wanted in the slow cooker, strange as it was getting too hot last night. I under up heating each bundle infront of the halogen heater after soaking in the glue.
It was more difficult that I thought rearranging the bundles once they were on the bow, the glue tacked up faster than I thought it would. Whether that is because of the temperature of it or just how it is I don’t know. I think a combination of both but I had the heater there to warm it up when I thought it needed it. I’ve got a layer of plastic wrap over it and then wrapped with with strips of T-shirt, the T-shirt didn’t behave very well so I’m going to the shop to get some bandages.
Once the bundles were down I’d say I had 30 seconds to a minute to move them around before they were pretty well where they were staying. I actually removed the first bundle after putting it down as it cooled way too quickly, I don’t think the bow or the glue were warm enough which is when I get the heater out.
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It’s only been half an hour and I’ve already checked on it three times! I want to pull it!
Two weeks to cure?
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Looks great. Now that you’ve done it each time you will find efficiency for the next one. You’ll be happy you took the time to get organized too. It makes for better consistency. The heater is good but another idea that you may try is just a heat lamp or a couple of them aimed at you work. I found this works good for me on bigger projects. If you move swiftly though you don’t really need one. The little bow I sinew last night I had two strip per side so it went quite quickly and just used water on my hand to smooth out and blend. It’s hard to tell from the pics how thick your glue is but I do mine around 25-30%.
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Yes the actual putting the sinew on the bow doesn’t take long at all does it? Glad I took your advice
and got it all sorted and laid out and ready to go. The stainless brush worked well to clean the short stands out when it was wet.
I mixed the glue up to 25%, I think maybe the people I’ve seen do it on videos have just used thinner glue.
Tomorrow when I take the wraps off can I fill in any gaps with more sinew? When I swapped the bandages there were a couple of small channels where bundles hadn’t met.
I guess warm the area, put down some glue and then put in more sinew than I think it needs so it can shrink down?
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Glad to help out. I would hold off in filling in any gaps just yet. I would wait at least a week and then see what it looks like before going to that. You may find that it won’t matter and shrinkage is still occurring right now. They may became insignificant as it dries further. If it’s a twisted strand or strands causing a gap however it may get larger actually but deal with that also in about a week or more. My method of dealing with little gaps is waiting a few days at least and then using hot thin glue use a porcelain mug and rub it down hard to compress the fibers and I think you find you won’t need to add any later. I just use a little brush to coat the top layer sinew and then go at it with the smooth side of a mug or anything smooth that you can get a good grip on. I’ll post a video on this too on my channel and put a link here. It will not harm your sinew. It will only need to be done once at like the 3-4 day dry point. Do not try to do this when your sinew is not dry enough or at least looks mostly dried through the entire layer. You will see no white remaining in your layer. I say this because dry times vary wildly depending on where you live. I’m in Alberta and it’s pretty dry here. I plan to burnish mine at like day 3. If after all this burnishing and compressing you still find you have unsightly voids you can decide after a week or so to fill those in. Always add a little more to voids then you think as it does shrink obviously. Take that into consideration. I’ve also wrapped my patches depending on size. This helps to match it up better with the rest.
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Humidity is about 65% here, much dryer in my house mind. I’ve got it in one of the cooler rooms.
Had a look this morning, missed a bit on the tip past the nock and a couple of bits on the edge that was away from me. Things to know next time!
The gap seems pretty big to me but I’ll see how it looks in a few days, I gave it a little squeeze and it’s quite squidgy under the top dry layer.
I was thinking about my process and why I got a bit mixed up on the second limb. I put two layers on the first limb, I should have done one across the whole bow and then put the second layer on over the middle section. I think I was concentrating on trying to get the first limb looking even and getting that one done when the glue was still tacky and I ended up feeling a bit rushed.
Then when I came to do the second limb it took a lot more thinking about where the bundles needed to go and the layout wasn’t as clear. Totally obvious where I went wrong in hindsight!still I don’t think it’s a problem, I might have shifted my distribution of sinew slightly towards the second limb, I’ll find its balance point and worst case I guess I’ll be able to sand it down a bit.
Should have some horse legs by the end of the week to strip the tendons from
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Looks great! Give it a week or so and you’ll have a better idea what you need to do.
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I’ve just filled in a few bits on the edge. Not sure it’s necessary at all but i don’t think it’s really going to increase the drying time and it was annoying me. Several bits along the “back” side, the other side to which I was standing.
Got about 6” of reflex now.
I gave it a quick burnish at about day 3 (I was away day 4 to 8) but having watched your video Dave I wasn’t aggressive enough. I was worried about getting it too wet and rucking up the top strands of sinew. It’s better but nothing like yours. I’ll leave it as is and remember for next time.
It looks like I think it should and I’m feeling confident about bending it.
I’m thinking wait for it to stop loosing weight then give it a few more days?
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I personally think you are fine now but that’s just me. It’s a good rule of thumb though like you say to measure weight loss and then a few more days. I keep my place here in Alberta around the 45-50% humidity. The air outside is far more dry though. I have a humidifier attached to the furnace which monitors this. So your level of humidity may change this a bit. I started bending mine about week two. I did mine right around when you did yours too. I measured weight like you are doing and then watch it stabilize and even go back up which is a good sign you are there. 6” reflex is good. It will mostly creep back to that after you tiller out the bow to what you want. I’ve even seen this reflex increase a bit as it gets tillered. This is because there is less resistance pulling back against the sinew and thus more reflex. I did some pre bending on mine before laying on my snake skins. I’ll start bending it again in a couple more days. I just glued on my handle today so will give it a couple. I posted a little about ratios on my little bow too but just to mention it here too I measure and premeasured my sinew and glue. I mixed up a tiny bit more then I need in glue but not a lot. I used most of it. My weight of the bow prior to sinew was about 65grams less then after the sinew dried. Some of this weight is glue. So in essence 50grams sinew and about 15grams or so in glue. After sinew dried my weight was 412grams. Prior to sinew it was just over 347grams. So about a 1/3 was glue give or take. I then added my snake skins which added about 8-9grams bringing it to about 420.86grams. It’s always good idea to monitor weight loss when it comes sinew. Lots of factors that can change things so results and dry times can vary.
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Thanks again!
My fear of moisture is actually more about the wood than the sinew. It’s 85-95% humidity here and 50 degrees outside. Don’t know what the humidity is inside. It’s so hard to get white woods down to reasonably moisture content in the winter here. The only thing I can do is weight for them to stop loosing weight and hope that’s enough. Got a moisture meter on the way.
I didn’t think to weigh the bow before sinewing, I had the weight written down on the bow as I was drying it before bracing but forgot to reweigh it after.
The belly had gone from flat, the concave, to now pulling slightly convex in places now which is interesting to watch. The back isn’t going to become flat but but to me that’s more of an indication of the shrinkage than the reflex.
I’ve got one thick patch mid limb where I had too many overlaps, I think it’s going to be ok but I may file it down slightly, though as there are overlaps I don’t want to weaken that point
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Thanks again!
My fear of moisture is actually more about the wood than the sinew. It’s 85-95% humidity here and 50 degrees outside. Don’t know what the humidity is inside. It’s so hard to get white woods down to reasonably moisture content in the winter here. The only thing I can do is weight for them to stop loosing weight and hope that’s enough. Got a moisture meter on the way.
I didn’t think to weigh the bow before sinewing, I had the weight written down on the bow as I was drying it before bracing but forgot to reweigh it after.
The belly had gone from flat, the concave, to now pulling slightly convex in places now which is interesting to watch. The back isn’t going to become flat but but to me that’s more of an indication of the shrinkage than the reflex.
I’ve got one thick patch mid limb where I had too many overlaps, I think it’s going to be ok but I may file it down slightly, though as there are overlaps I don’t want to weaken that point
Ya that’s high humidity wow. But don’t fret. That’s the best environment for laying sinew for best adhesion. It may take a little longer to dry but will be very solid. As far as the clump in the middle I would just smooth it out and not file down completely just yet till you get bending it. You may find out later that you can safely file it off. Keeping track of weights are important your first few bows to see patterns. Once you get a feel for it you get the ratios right and other things. The concaving of the belly would indicate drying and being pulled by the sinew.
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sinew is just incredible!
its a bow! I started bending it maybe saturday morning, just working it over my knee but wanted to give it another day to feel safe.
It was probably pulling about a million pounds so i needed to take a good bit of wood off, i had literally just got it to brace before as i had read it was best to not pull them before the sinew was on. I should have got it back to 15" or so inches, that way it would probably pulled more reflex when the sinew dried and i would be in a better place to start tillering.
Tillering went ok, i didnt know what my final draw length would be so i didnt know when to start getting the middle bending. I had no reference to know how much the elm would take with the sinew on it.
Once i got it bending it felt amazing, completely different to just wood or FG, just so elastic and springy. I was expecting it to feel like a heavier wooden bow but not at all!
Got it to 20" and shot it a bit and it was feeling fast. I wasnt really sure how the tiller should look, some similar bows on yt had all the bend in the middle and just straight from mid limb and others were perfectly circular with the same front profile. I ended up monitoring where it was loosing reflex, the tiller is a bit of a weird shape but the set/ reflex seems happy. then i took it to 22".
I guessed the reflex before with it strung backwards and the extra knocks added, its was actually about 4 1/2"-5" reflex to start with. It was coming back to almost flat in the middle 1/3rd right after shooting and maybe 2 1/2" reflex then and going back to 3 1/2" within 10mins. Think it was about 155fps 10.5gpp at 22" which i was dead happy with.
Then I shot it a bit more this moring and fiddled with the tiller some more, thinned the wood off the tips that wasnt needed and got it to 24". The reflex is still about the same i just managed to get some more wood working. i dulled it past 25" once for kicks and it didnt seem to mind at all. If i can get it to 26" thats my full draw but i'll not risk it as 24" is a comfortable short draw for me.
So then i backed it with birch bark, harder to do than the sinew!
pics incoming
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First brace and back to 22” then to 24”. You can see the weird looking tiller where it’s bending in the middle, then straight through the mid limb and them almost hinging just before the recurve. When unbraced it comes back to loads of reflex right where the hinge looking bit is and flattest where the straight sections are.
The 24” picture the left limb is great but it’s a bit stiff on the right inner and too bendy in the middle , this is exaggerated but the lighting/ shadow though it wasn’t quite as bad as it looks.
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24”
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https://youtu.be/pkwQtE0lJc8?si=N4_WEil6rtC0Tmry
Video of me shooting it at 22” and a little sneak peak of the bark. That’s enough typing and picture uploading for this evening
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Yes! Sweet little bow James. Tiller looks pretty good to me. You have lots of bend thru the handle but being such a short little bow that what I would have done also. Your working limb is probably similar to mine actually given that I incorporated semi static tip recurves to concentrate my working limb little more on the middle. Your reflex recovery seems good too. Seems pretty snappy little bow. Well done on your sinew and this bow. Speeds are very good.
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Awesome work man! You've been tackling lots of cool projects and taking them head-on, really inspiring me over here!
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Shooting this bow in that video there was moisture on the target, my arrows got damp, my hand got wet then my bow got sticky. I was thinking about leaving it bare but thats not an option in this climate.
No snakes round here and skins are not cheap, I only have thick rawhide and shaving it down seems silly. The only rawhide i can but thats thin enouh is double the price of snake skins. I've got some cherry and silver birch bark though.
The birch bark is very thick, 2mm+ and very dry. I got if for making knife handles and its in A5 size pieces and all from different trees. It took a good couple of hours to work out what to do with it. Its colour and texture varied so much ands its properties varied too. I've seen video of people just peeling the layers apart as easily as peeling that plastic cover off of screens but this bark is not that bark.
I tried soaking it hot water which helped a lot, boiling water was better. Some pieces just wouldnt sperate, it was just tear accross layers and split and just be awful, i didnt persever with these pieces. A couple of pieces just fell apart into layers like ive seen before. Some piece tore on the black lines, or left layers behind as i passed some and the couple of nice pieces the black lines made no difference.
Some pieces would only sperate in one place, others were like the pages of a book at the edges. I didnt manage to work with a piece wider than 2" and mosrt were about 1" wide.
The main take away is that not all bark is the same and dont bother if it isnt easy, unfortunaly as i dont know the living conditions of the trees this came from i dont know what to look for in the future. I suspect the colder the climate and younger the tree the easier it is to work with.
I used thick hide glue to glue it on, my thinking being it would tack up harder and hold the bark in place as i worked along. The bark varied in colour so i started with the paler stuff in the middle and moved to darker towards the tips, trying to not have it look stripy. Another factor is that as i didnt have much choise about how thin the strips were i didnt want a thick one nect to a thin one. Thinnest
being one or two layers (thinner than paper) and the thickest being maybe 0.3mm at a guess.
It was very slow going, i was cutting the pieces on three or four sides one at a time, it would have been SO much esier if i just had bark from one tree that was all similar enough and large pieces that i could just slice strips off and glue them on. I didnt have a double boiler i could use where i was working so i kept having to stop and reheat the glue.
I sized the belly as i went and stuck the strips around so i could trim them back. Also it took so long to apply the strips i was having to trim the earlier strips as i went as the glue was drying. An advantage to getting glue on my fingers is i could use the stick to pull the strips tight around the back of the bow and hold them when the glue tacked.
Once it was all covered I trimmed the sides back most of the way leaving a little bit of spare, bushed water over the whole thing, covered it in cling wrap (seran wrap?), wrapped it as tight as i could in self adhesive bandage and then cokked the heck out of it with a hair dryer. Then left it to cool down and removed the wraps so it could dry.
Getting the tips done was just a bit of a faff, it was just a case putting a piece of bark on, cling wrap, hair dryer, wrap and bandage or string and let it set and then put the next piece on. Theres a piece front and back and then a small strip over the end. I could design the tips better to make this easier. Also the heat from the hair dryer softens the bark as well as the glue so it shapes better. cling wrap was good as i could see if the bark was shifting as i applied pressure. There is also sinew wrap under the knocks which made this more difficult
It was a little lumpy so i burnished it which helped blend some of the joints. I then lightly sanded at 600 grit which took care of a couple of edges but id not reccomend that tbh as it changes the looks of the bark.
When the glue is tacky still you can run a knife along the edge of it and just peel off the excess, this was way easier than I expected. As the bark was thicker than i wanted I sanded at 600 grit and then burnished this edge so it didnt catch. I can see the bark delaminating if it got caught on something.
The grip is pig skin lining leather (short on braintan round here) and bark tan rabbit. Its my first rabbit skin and i didnt want to cut it right up the middle to get the best furr as the rest of the hide wuld be less usefull so i took the furr from one of the back legs, It doesnt match up that great and i though the direction of the hair would be less important but its ok if you dont look too hard.
Couple of coats of tru oil.
Now im waiting for the last of the moisture from the bark gluing to leave and i'll string it back up and get some full draw pics.
Pics incoming
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The bark I started with and the kind of strips I was working with
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Getting the strips on, trimming the edges (you can see the glue dried too much)
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Wetting the bow, wrapping and heating and unwrapping. Putting all that moisture and heat into it it seemed like it was worth stringing it backwards. Don’t think it was necessary
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This first strips I put on, you can see how different the thickness is, there are under the grip though.
A photo to show the colour gradient
And how I wrapped the tip pieces. There was cling wrap under there
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And here she is
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Can’t thank you enough for all your help and the the videos and everything Dave, this isn’t just my favourite bow but one of the best things I’ve ever made and I’ve made a LOT of stuff! Super proud of this one and it turned out even better than I had hoped! I’ll get some full draw pics of hen it’s dry.
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It seemed to have stopped loosing weight, I just strung and shot it and it’s lost about 3lbs of draw weight and just felt a bit sloppy and had a lot of string follow compared to before. I assume it’s not stopped losing moisture.
I’ve strung it backwards and put it back on the radiator.
Have I likely caused permanent set or is it likely to regain its reflex and hold it? It’s lost 5 grams in water since putting the bark on.
Is the fact that it was warm off the radiator likely to cause this, I’m reading mixed answers about if heat impacts sinew of its it’s just moisture.
Kicking myself, it seemed to not have lost any weight for a day I thought it was good to go.
Won’t touch if for at least a week now. And see if it was just a temporary slowing of moisture loss
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It seemed to have stopped loosing weight, I just strung and shot it and it’s lost about 3lbs of draw weight and just felt a bit sloppy and had a lot of string follow compared to before. I assume it’s not stopped losing moisture.
I’ve strung it backwards and put it back on the radiator.
Have I likely caused permanent set or is it likely to regain its reflex and hold it? It’s lost 5 grams in water since putting the bark on.
Is the fact that it was warm off the radiator likely to cause this, I’m reading mixed answers about if heat impacts sinew of its it’s just moisture.
Kicking myself, it seemed to not have lost any weight for a day I thought it was good to go.
Won’t touch if for at least a week now. And see if it was just a temporary slowing of moisture loss
Sorry man. I got busy here. Just seeing this now. Wonderfully done btw. I would say you are fine with this bow as far as set goes. I would let it sit for a week or two after using hide glue to adhere your bark. That’s just my opinion on that. Moisture will find a way into the sinew again that’s for certain. I did the same as you before and was watching weight loss to a point and noticed less draw and string follow. This is just moisture crept into sinew and wood. It will take more time to get rid of moisture now then before as you have covered it trapping it in so to speak. Do not fret. Your sinew was done well and it will recover just fine. Just give it a couple weeks to sit. You can back string if you like but it will just settle in where it wants to when it’s ready. Waiting is the hard part. lol. Been there and it sucks. As for the birch bark. Ya it’s hard to get consistent pieces. I don’t use the thicker pieces. If I can’t get it at least as thin as paper or thinner I put it aside. I make sure I have enough thin stock before proceeding. I boil mine for a half hour and let it sit in the warm water for awhile too I split them apart carefully obviously but easier said then done. As you mentioned I use younger trees. I find the older trees are more inconsistent results. The last one I did I made a tracing stencil to cut my desired shapes which were angled rectangles. I established a center line on the bow first. I didn’t post a detailed process for this as it’s very tedious. It took me 3 days to get mine done! It’s kind of one of those things that when you start it you are committing to a lot of pain! lol. All worth it in the end. Be proud of this bow brother. Take the things you learned from this one to the next. Btw another covering option that’s very thin is goat skin parchment. I’ve used this material and it’s one of my favourites. You can stain it, paint it or decorate it the way you like. It adds very little weight. I order mine on Etsy by the full hide.
Here’s a couple pics of what I use here. Younger trees limbs. As you can see I’ve cut down the length and can then separate it into 5-6 paper thin layers. This is pretty ideal scenario however. We have lots of this here in Canada.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0b14Us6UZ1zRwVkVbkUDkzgIg
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Not at all no need to apologise. Panic over I’ve left it on the radiator and I’ve got away for a week so that should stop me messing with it!
That’s great thanks for the pics, do you know what kind of birch it is?im off to hunt for some now!
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It’s called white birch or paper birch up here. It’s quite white on the outer layer and peels off easily. Depending on the look you want you can mix up the tones as you sort through your stack. The bigger trees have bigger dark streaks than the smaller tree. The last one I did I used an older tree that my neighbour had cut down.
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Tried finding ;D some round here, super thin layers. Feel like cigarette papers
All finished with a full draw photo. It’s pulling 43-44 lbs at 24” now. The exciting cracking noises from the birch bark was fun ;D
4 3/4” of reflex when it was left for a week but around 4” years ver night.
Tiller has changed a little, I’ll get it shot in before I make any adjustments.
https://youtube.com/shorts/rn_7ZGw_LZ8?si=wiUDhIgjks8R_eVj
Moderators; is it possible to move this thread to how to’s and build alongs? Seems like all Superdavs time and explanations are less likely to get lost over there and more likely to be seen in the future.
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That's one sweet little bow! Glad it turned out so well for you. Superdave helped me through my first sinew backing a couple years ago too. Really awesome how willing he is to help others.
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My goodness, you got all the bend that had to offer! How much you want it to bend? "Yes." No, I many how many inches? "All of them."
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N I C E !!! (-S
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Hey that is a beautiful bow! Those short bows definitely get my gears turning.
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I can’t read thru the entire thread to figure this out at this time, but do you want/need some Prarie rattler skins for that bow? I can gift you a couple that’ll work for that little bow.