Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Arthur Herrmann on June 18, 2008, 11:18:49 pm

Title: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Arthur Herrmann on June 18, 2008, 11:18:49 pm
I have been dreaming of making a backed bow. Soon my 3 rivers archery catalog will arrive. Inside this magazine there is three options one could buy and use to back a bow. Round boo, flattened boo, or Hickory backing strips. All 3/16'' thick I think.

I simply do not know which one to pick.

What do you all think. ::)
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Pat B on June 18, 2008, 11:38:59 pm
It all depends on the belly wood you intend to use and the design.        Pat
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: radius on June 19, 2008, 12:14:51 am
I've never bought pre-made bamboo backings, only made them by hand, but from what i understand, you'd still have a lot of work to do with them anyway.  The trick to bamboo backings (which i learned from Pat B) is to draw the bow shape on the bamboo, cut it to the lines, and then thin the bamboo to a knife edge, end to end.  This prevents the backing from being too thick at the tips.  With pre-made backings...i don't know.

Hickory backing strip...can't go wrong...doesn't matter what shape your bow is, the thing will be uniform thickness throughout anyways. 

If you have a tablesaw and beltsander, you might consider buying hickory lumber and making the backing strips yourself.  For the price of one pre-made strip, you can buy a board 6 feet long, 1 inch thick, and at least 6 inches wide, meaning that you could make 12 or so backing strips for yourself.

Have a good time with your bow, buddy!
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Kegan on June 19, 2008, 06:38:18 pm
It all depends on the belly wood you intend to use and the design.        Pat

I agree. Hickory works on more belly woods than bamboo does. And some woods are so heavy that hickory would be a detriment, and bamboo would be the asset.
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Rich Saffold on June 19, 2008, 07:31:21 pm
Save your money Arthur.First I agree with what is said here, and if you can't get, and prep your own backins, and  need some bamboo, go to the classifieds in the magazine and look first. There's probably some guy named "Richard" who can get you set-up save you a lot of money.

PS. he cuts his own too!

Richard ;)
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Kyle on June 19, 2008, 09:10:22 pm
There is really no way you can go wrong with hickory, almost any bow type, not to mention that it is cheaper than the boo and especially planed and flatened boo

If you do use hickory there is very little chance of it overpowering the belly, you have to be careful with bamboo :)
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Justin Snyder on June 19, 2008, 10:34:19 pm
If it was me looking to make my first backed bow I would get hold of that Richard feller in the classifieds.  It seems to me that the best and safest way to start is by getting materials from a guy that knows how to make great bows and will pick you out some high quality materials to start with.  Justin
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: NOMADIC PIRATE on June 20, 2008, 01:15:09 am
All my Hickory backed bows exploded !! :o :o  Get some Boo from Rich, much better quality than 3Rivers

...and if you get the boo right you can use it on just about any wood !!
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: radius on June 20, 2008, 01:25:21 am
i've never had a hickory-backed bow explode...one time i had a sliver lift up, that's all...
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Justin Snyder on June 20, 2008, 01:32:08 am
I havent had real good luck with hickory backings either Manny. 
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Pat B on June 20, 2008, 02:30:30 am
I've never had a hickory backing blow and I have used some with terrible violations in the grain.   I did have one crack across grain but realized the whole log I cut into backing strips had been invaded by fungi. Made good kindling! >:(
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Ryano on June 20, 2008, 09:43:49 am
Ive seen bamboo splinter just as many times as a hickory backing strip. When ever Ive had a problem with a hickory backing it showed itself during the tillering process. Not so with bamboo, Ive seen it lift a splinter a year or more down the road on a finished bow for no apparent reason.  >:(  Just a observation.....
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: adb on June 20, 2008, 11:16:43 am
I've made many bows with both hickory & bamboo backings. I must confess, I prefer hickory. My climate is very dry, and bamboo checks (no big deal), but hickory excels. Bamboo is a pain in the butt, requiring much extra work... flattening the back, lining up nodes, tapering, etc. Hickory does not. Nothing, in my opinion, beats a well tillered BBO, but it means extra work and knowledge. Hickory is cheap, you can cut your own, and it requires no extra fussing. My vote? Hickory!!
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: radius on June 20, 2008, 11:35:48 am
OKAY...new question for all you hickory proponents:

plain sawn or edge-ringed?
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Ryano on June 20, 2008, 11:40:57 am
edge grain!
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Pat B on June 20, 2008, 12:54:02 pm
Edge or bias grained for hickory for me.
I was visiting James(Robustus) yesterday and one tip he gave me about using boo backings is to not scrape the rind off. When you do this it leaves a small divot where the scraper begins and ends at each stroke which leads to the splintering. He also said you have a tendency to add more pressure in the middle of the stroke which can get you into the power fibers.  He uses a scotch Bright pad to buff the rind so it will accept dye, etc.
   To me, hickory is way easier to work with. Basically you get the glue surface smooth, sand the tool marks out of the back and glue it down. You can also tiller some from the backing side after glue up if needed for fine adjustments.     Pat
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: adb on June 20, 2008, 04:52:51 pm
Edge grain, for sure. What I did: I bought a 2" thick, 6'board, which was 8" wide, plain sawn. I turned it on edge, and ripped 3/16" thick strips on the table saw from the 2" face. Viola! 2" wide edge grain backing strips. The hickory board I found was very straight grained, with no run off. Then, I ran it through a thickness sander to true it up, making them 1/8" thick. Each strip ended up costing me $10. Not bad. No fuss, just glue it up and go.
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Justin Snyder on June 20, 2008, 04:59:59 pm
OKAY...new question for all you hickory proponents:

plain sawn or edge-ringed?
Before you spend a lot of money on power tools and wood you NEED to buy TBB 1 and do some serious reading.  It will tell you how to select wood by grain pattern for bows and backings.  It will be the smartest $20 you will spend.  Or just get the whole set.  http://www.horsefeathersranch.com/cgi-bin/shopper?key=archbookBIBLEALL&preadd=action   Justin
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Pat B on June 20, 2008, 05:02:41 pm
I did the same as ABD but bought a 10' board, cut it to a 6' and a 4' pieces. I have already cut the 6' piece into strips and used or traded them. I still have the 4' piece that I will eventually cut to backing strips that will be spliced at the handle under an overlay. I don't have a thickness sander so I reduced the thickness and removed the tool marks with my table top belt sander.     Pat
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Jesse on June 20, 2008, 08:36:14 pm
Bamboo from Rich would be my choice. I have not had boo splinter on me yet but I've seen it on others bows. I agree that a scraper leaves marks but they are really easy to get rid of. Just scrape the first shinny part of the rind off lightly with a scraper and then sand the rest. I finish the back all the way to 1000 grit paper. It shines like glass and I think thats why I have not had a failure. Extra care around the nodes is also important. If you leave some of the rind on around the node I think it will be prone to failure there but if you go to deep you will violate the power fibers which can run close to the back. Its actually easy to work bamboo it just takes a little more time than hickory.
 If you use ipe for the belly it does not mater how thick the boo is. Thicker might even be better but thin is good too.
                                                                                                                   Jesse
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: radius on June 20, 2008, 09:47:55 pm
i've never had any trouble with plain sawn hickory, so i'm not worried about that.  As for bamboo, i remember marc st louis writing that he has been scraping the nodes off bamboo for years with no problem at all.  So i did that.  No problems at all.
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Jesse on June 20, 2008, 10:05:00 pm
i've never had any trouble with plain sawn hickory, so i'm not worried about that.  As for bamboo, i remember marc st louis writing that he has been scraping the nodes off bamboo for years with no problem at all.  So i did that.  No problems at all.

good to know. I never tried scraping the nodes down flat but I do like to get them nice and rounded with no sharp ridges. maybe we are talking about the same thing.
     
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Justin Snyder on June 21, 2008, 01:20:12 am
Pat, I quit scraping the rind off the boo.  I use a little orbital sander with 400 grit and sand just until I see the color start to change.  I don't remove all the rind, but I get all the color blemishes out of it.  Justin
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: radius on June 21, 2008, 01:23:28 am
i just use a fine file to get the nodes off, and a scraper for the rest...i find if i'm careful, it's no trouble at all
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: mullet on June 21, 2008, 01:33:08 am
  James Parker,everybody saw the backed bows he posted this month, told me not to scrape the rind off of boo. He said eventually it will make it lift a splinter. Now I've scraped all of mine and haven't had it happen. But I haven't been making backed bows but about 10 years, and I don't have a lifetime warranty like James. I don't sell many either.
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: Pat B on June 21, 2008, 01:42:11 am
Eddie, Alan and I spent the day with James and Becca watching James work on bows, cook boo belly slats  :o and just talk bows, etc. When it comes to bow building, self or laminated, knapping and primitive skills I'll take what James says as gospel. He ain't lied to me yet! ;)      Pat
Title: Re: Making a backed bow: Hickory Vs. Bamboo
Post by: radius on June 21, 2008, 01:46:10 am
yeah, there's no doubt, looking at robusto's bows, he knows what he's doing