Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: rudderbows on June 24, 2008, 12:05:05 am
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Here is a link I just found. It claims to have original bows and arrows from the Philippines. What do you guys think? are they for real. they look really cool. some are made from Palm.
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Hey Jim!
I'm not sure about the Moro tribe but my buddy knows a different tribe, from his mother's side, and the bows they made were short flatbow styles of palm wood as well. The arrows there look right to me, same style of wrapping behind the points except the one Ive seen had iron points. I wont doubt these are the real thing, because they do look like it. Pretty cool find! :)
Alex
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Jim, sorry but I had to delete the link. PA does not allow links to non advertising sites on the message board. Justin
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You gotta be kidding me! How many times are we able to see philippino bows and arrows. I have heard so many guys who leave this site for these silly reasons. How plain silly can you be about this. It was some really cool info.
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Hey, Jim. The rules are the rules. If you don't like it, I'm sure you'd be happy somewhere else. It's not fair to the advertisers, who are PAYING to have their names on this forum. You're one of them!!!! Aren't you shooting yourself in the foot?
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For anyopne who wants to see the link just type in Philippino MORO bows and arrows and do a search. it will come up for you. I really do not fit in here.Hope the best for you guys left.
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For anyopne who wants to see the link just type in Philippino MORO bows and arrows and do a search. it will come up for you. I really do not fit in here.Hope the best for you guys left.
I am a paying advertiser too. = We have many customers from this website and a few of them are expressing thier high disatisfaction with cencorship here. Ease back on the regulation and let it grow a bit. Its an awesome website. So since you invited me to leave I will ask the same of you . Why dont you leave cause i love this place and am staying. ? . Its better to use a degree of judgement and change the rigidity of the rules. Keep your "Leave here" attidutude to yourself and think beyond that.
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Glad to see you changed your mind Jim. I didn't get to see the link so can't comment on it. If they were a business site then as a coutesy to advertisers it has to be removed or modified so that it does not come up as a link.
Maybe as a suggestion you could post a querry asking if anybody would like to see these and if they do they can send you a PM or e-mail.
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Marc,
I have NO gain in this, but would like clarification to the rule Justin is talking about.....Could Jim put links to his site here??? If not.....why??? I am on your side here Jim..... rediculious!!! We are entitled to opinions I hope!!!
As for you ADB3112....I think you are overstepping your boundries by asking people to leave.....Some of these people have been here for YEARS...HOW LONG YOU BEEN AROUND BUD???
Brian
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I didn't ask him to leave, "bud." I suggested if he thought this forum was silly, then maybe he would be happier elsewhere. Go back and read the post. The rules have to apply to everyone. Jim & Brian... why are you guys getting all bent outta shape (pardon the pun)? Jim... you posted items for sale. That's a no-no. Everybody knows that, including you. The paying advertisers need to get value for their hard earned dollar. I'm sure you, of all people, can understand that. Brian... you have an opinion? So do others. Items for sale is not an "opinion." If you both think that is ridiculous or silly, then maybe, in fact, you would be happier at another forum. Brian... I won't dignify your "how long have you been around" comment. Stick to the issue.
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Jim....don't let One Smart Ass Remark make you think of Leaving.....if anyone has a right to be here....it's a Bowyer ....that is also a Paying...... Advertising Participant in both the Magazine and the Primitive Archer Board......I don't agree with the Rules all the Time either....and have bumped Heads a bunch....and gotten no where....but there are too many Friends and too much Information for Me to get ticked off and leave
Brian...as for how long he's been here....since 09/2006..... so He ought to know that We as Members have no right to tell people where to go and when to leave....thats up to the Global and Administrative Moderators to do.....not Us
As for Opinions.... that all depends too....there is no freedom of Speech on a Board....you agreed to their Rules....not the Constuttions...at least this is what I was told!!!
Go to Jim's site if you are Interested in Philippine Bows
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Everyone go back and read Jim's reply after Justin pulled his thread. Was I the only one offended?
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Mike, your posting the link to Jim's site doesn't help, the bows were not on his site. It was a commercial site that was not an advertiser. This rule has been around as long as this site. If you can copy the bow pictures you are welcome to post them here. You can also state the name of the website, but no direct links are allowed. As for the logic of the rule. If someone wanted to publish their business add in the magazine without paying, and PA said no would you think it was dumb. If they sale ad space to one person it doesn't make since to allow it free to another. Justin
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Hey don't think I am trying to be a One Man Jim Boswell Backer....because I am not....He can stick up for Himself....but I think He was just trying to let people see the Bow and maybe learn by it's design...not advertise this Crappy eBayish Website... I believe that this was Innocent....and telling Him that maybe He would be better somewhere else...was out of line too........
I agree with you Justin.....100%.......nobody should have a free ticket to sell on a Site that is regulated....the rules state no Selling...only Bartering and Trade Allowed....And I know that this Site is a Privilege and the Magazine does not have to have it....but without it and Us....I believe the Magazine would greatly suffer too....So We are the Magazine in a Way.....aren't We???
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I try to be fair in all my work here so I leave any feelings I may have, positive or negative, aside.
The only thing I might add to all this is that when it is somebody else posting a link, however innocent it may be, that should not be here Jim and his friend Justin are the first to complain to us mods and admins. I guess you could say what goes around comes around.
That Brian is something you probably don't know.
Only the subscribers help the magazine Mike. There are plenty of members that do not subscribe to the PA magazine. That is really what irked Mike Moore years ago, so many members, so few subscribers. Ah well, that was another life ::)
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Mike, all Jim had to do was tell everybody to go to his link in the paid advertisers section like he has been told over and over again. It would have drawn people to his site and gave them something interesting to read, in his own words.
Every Moderator has gone through this about every 6 months, and new rules were made, just for Jim.
If this was Trandgang or the Leatherwall, there would not be the courtesy of trying again to explain the rules(8) to Jim. It would be gone, no explanation, sorry, we don't give a crap. You don't see advertisers doing this repeatably on those sites. If anything, I think this site is too lax.
Well, I Googled " Phillipino, MORO, bows and arrows," Hmmm, just another commercial site selling all kinds of stuff in Texas. Jim, is that a friend?, seems they not only sell bows from the Phillipines but armor, muzzleloading acessories, and anything else you want. There was also 734 other sites, some very informative about bows and blow guns from the Phillipine's, but they weren't selling anything. Do everybody and the Moderators a favor and fill everybody in on the rest of the story before you start screaming to the ill informed masses how you were wronged once again.
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Yeah that Crap Irks Me too Marc.....I think that to reap the Benefits....you should have to be a Member....all of the Gun Clubs down here are NRA ONLY....if you don't belong...but want to Use the Facilities....then you pay for a Yearly Membership to the NRA ....along with the Clubs Membership fees...this Includes be an Archer too...you have to be an NRA Member.The Company my Wife works for....ConocoPhillips/EnCana Refineries.....they are Union....and in most other States.....in Order to Work for them....You have to become a Member...well Texas is a Mighty Right To Work State.....so if there is a Union....and You don't want to be a Member...you cant be forced....but you get to reap all of the Benefits( now you see where I was going!!) that the Union Dues Paying Members fought for.....for FREE......not right........but hey.....what can you do???
Point taken Marc....I will back out and leave it to them to spar it out!!!
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Hahahaha ! Ever notice how the same people are always being wronged ? ??? ;D........bob
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Did some research Eddie...and I have found where you are coming from on this One.......another point taken...and another mouthful of Crow......hey....I am beginning to aquire a Taste!!! ::) ::) ::) ;)
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well jim i did get to see it before the link was pulled. i guess being that you are an advertiser here that you have as much right to be here as any one else does,maybe more. for someone who is not a moderator to tell you that you might be happier else where,well maybe the should think before they type.
personnaly i think your opiniions are great when it comes to bow making (no im not advertising for jim),hell i even think your products are top notch,cause thats where i get most all my bow building materials.
so telling an advertiser like yourself that you might be happeir else where,well they might as well be telling your customers the same.
personaly i would hate to see you leave this site,mainly because it was because of PA magazine that i found out about primitive bow building and your site. so ifn you gotta leave well one never knows does one,hmmmmmm
i would hate to have to call you with every question i have,even though i know you would take the time to answer everyone of them.
i'm sure it was just a simple mistake to put a non advertiser link up,so please people lets not tell others to go else where,some of these people are very appreciated around here by use newbies.
thats all ive got to say about that.
peace,
tim
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If you REREAD what JIM wrote up to the point of my post, it is very possible to take it that JIM put up a simple link to PICTURES OF BOWS!!! I because Justin removed it, did not get to see the link.....thought it was down right rude to remove simple pictures of bows!!! Justin does not mention they are a business. This is why I asked for clarification of the rules.....
Regardless my opinion right, or wrong, Jim being a advertiser being snubbed like that seemed rude!! After finding out they were selling these bows my opinion changed.
BUT NOT ABOUT THE INVITE TO GO ELSEWHERE!!!
Yes Marc I know there has been issues in the past, was wondering if people were being revengefull ???
Brian
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My only comment is this: Jim as an advertiser in PA magazine I appreciate that you help keep the magazine in business
ad space is not cheap. But yet the only time you come to the site is to push something, perhaps if you came on the site to post
some helpful information, or take part in some of the discussions in other words be helpful rather than making a post that you
know is going to stir the pot, people might be a bit more appreciative. Because of your actions and comments on here I personally will never buy a thing from you.
JMO
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I couldn't have put it better, Dana. Hey, Jim... when was the last time you posted a build along, or a bow for everyone to look at? Or made a helpful comment to a new bowyer?
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This is sad, 2 pages of nonsense and maybe only two people actually commented on the bows/arrows including me.
Can we just stop talking about how he made his mistake and what it was?
I think he got it after maybe the 7th post or so......
Anyways, all said is pretty much how it is and so we must follow that rule to maintain order, no questions asked.....
You all have a nice day :)
Alex
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I do not know any of the guys with the Philippino bows and we do not sell any of those bows and arrows at all. Those bows were simply pretty cool to look at and thats why I linked it to the post. . They are made from palm as are some of the arrow tips made with the arrows.I posted it because it was a cool thing to share not because they are my friends or because we are selling them. I do not know them at all.
abd3112 I help allot of people make bows and am having allot of fun doing it. I spend allot of time on the phone even helping people who dont always buy from us because its outright fun not because we make a buck from it.
We have had several customers complain to me personally over the phone that even the simplest posts on PA message board are screwed with , deleted transfered , whatever and they are disgruntled with it . They want to be left alone to have a simple conversation without someone screaming about the rules or deleteing half of what they say or deleting pictures or moving posts or whatever, Freedom is an American way guys and is a GOOD thing.. A couple of oput customers have even have said they are no longer even comeing here. this is a great site why dont we rethink about a little discretion and when we apply rules and not loose people from here.
Marc ST Louis, you screw with justin and I all the time and you do it vindictivly. Shame on you, you are a a disgrace.
Dana, I sent a PM to you as I also did abd3112.
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WOW, this is one weird thread
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Yep, as always, he wants rules but ask's the Moderators to bend them for him. It sure gets old.
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Well I have met some of you guys personally and I have not found anyone I didnt like. That being said I have noticed that everyone is really hard on Jim. I have spent hours on the phone with Jim learning the craft of bow making when I was starting out. I wanted to buy all kinds of stuff and he would actually talk me out of it suggesting ways to use what I had on hand. He never pushed anything and gave me lots of time without gaining anything for it. I think you got him all wrong. I would buy from him again no problem. He knows his stuff and is a really pleasant, helpful guy. I dont know what he posted but he is a good addition to this site and the magazine. I try to play by the rules here because I like the site but I do not like them and also think they are WAAAAAAAAAAAY to strict with enforcement sometimes. Not enough to make me leave though. Thats my 3 cents worth ;D
Jesse
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Marc, Justin, Mullet, Pat, hillbilly, and all the other moderators & admins of PA forum... you guys are doing an awesome job, and, on a volunteer basis. The rules are clearly posted for all to abide. If some do not wish to follow, my original offer still stands. Please don't let one whiner discourage you. I don't think you need to change anything. I wish I could share my PM from Jim, and better yet, my response.
Jim, if you and some others want to be left alone to talk about whatever you want, why don't you PM each other? I think the only one who has acted in a disgraceful manner is you.
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I am disappointed as a relatively new person to this site to see a thread like this. I browse a lot an dfollow links becaus emy interest is archery in many areas. 'Rudderbows' was posting a link of interest to me and others and because it was to a commercial site it was removed. Fair enough but it is also obvious to anyone of intelligence that there was no financial interest as the reason for the post. And that his protest was because of that, to affirm his intent. A case of a generalised rule acting against the norm of common-sense.
So some of you really need to pull in those egos, stop jumping into the usual pack behaviour of demeaning well-intentioned folk. No-one is perfect and mistakes are made, both sides. Don't bother telling me off for defending the guy or for asking for commonsense, I am too grown up and too thick-skinned to worry about mongrels yapping at my ankles, and I have a bow and sharp broadheads to deal with such minor annoyances anyway! ;D
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Marc ST Louis, you screw with justin and I all the time and you do it vindictivly. Shame on you, you are a a disgrace.
Whatever you say Jim. The only thing is I just can't figure out why I have a clear conscious on all this :)
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Our job as moderators and admins is to be sure the rules are followed. The rules are set forth by the owners and editors of the magazine that pays for this site. If you don't like the rules, contact the editor and let him know your dislikes and make suggestions to him about what you think should be done or how things should be handled. Ed Ingold is the editor and his personal e-mail address has been made available to anyone and everyone that is interested in contacting him...and he has requested such e-mails...good or bad.
It is understandable that folks that are new to PA and are not as aware of, or inadvertently overlook the rules sometimes step over the line. In most cases(in my experience) when they are contacted by the mods or admins about this they apologize and promise not to do it again and in MOST cases that is exactly what happens. They become contributing members...part of the solution.
Then, there are some folks out there that have to continue to step over the line just to see what they can get away with. To me, these are the people that are contributing to the problem and not to a successful, informative web site.
Don't gripe at the folks that are trying to be sure the rules are being followed. If you don't like the rules, contact Ed Ingold. He is the person that can change the rules...if he sees fit. Its his ball game! We just try to keep the peace and it is quite obvious that we are a necessary part of this, or any public forum...and to me, it is a shame that we have to be here just to keep this great site going. I would think that if the PA web site meant anything to these people, they would do what is asked and stop trying to through a monkey wrench into the works. Pat
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This whole thread could have been avoided by one simple thing: an apology from Jim. "Oops, sorry, I didn't realize the cool Philippine Bows were for sale!" Instead, when he knows darn well he hasn't followed the rules, he's outraged. I don't get it.
Thanks Pat, your post was perfect.
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Well said, Pat. And for some of the newer people who misunderstand the exchanges as a sudden pack-attack or isolated incident, this didn't start with this particular post- it's been an ongoing thing for years and there are many incidents in the past that most of you haven't seen or are aware of. And as Pat said, we don't make the rules, we just try to carry out the wishes of the good people who provide this site for our benefit at no cost to us. I don't think the few rules here are that unreasonable, myself. Now, hows about let's build some bows.
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I wonder how long I've been around?
Since June '06 evidently. I wonder how that works, because I remember lurking and posting here going back to '99 at least. Perhaps I could be wrong. But it's been a heck of a lot longer than '06, and long enough for me to have seen this particular circus go around the mulberry bush quite a few times. For what it's worth, which I understand is very little, as far as I'm concerned Jim and Rudderbows have been a major pita from the very beginning. Unnecessarily I might add. But I've seen the same thing on other sites, where advertisers cause problems. Commercialism and selfbowyering just make very odd bedfellows, mix in a few little personality quiks and you got beaucoup hassle factor. It's a shame really.
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David, June '06 was just when PA switched servers to this new board. You've been around longer than I have, and I registered a couple boards ago back when dinosaurs still roamed the Earth. :)
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Our job as moderators and admins is to be sure the rules are followed. The rules are set forth by the owners and editors of the magazine that pays for this site. If you don't like the rules, contact the editor and let him know your dislikes and make suggestions to him about what you think should be done or how things should be handled. Ed Ingold is the editor and his personal e-mail address has been made available to anyone and everyone that is interested in contacting him...and he has requested such e-mails...good or bad.
It is understandable that folks that are new to PA and are not as aware of, or inadvertently overlook the rules sometimes step over the line. In most cases(in my experience) when they are contacted by the mods or admins about this they apologize and promise not to do it again and in MOST cases that is exactly what happens. They become contributing members...part of the solution.
Then, there are some folks out there that have to continue to step over the line just to see what they can get away with. To me, these are the people that are contributing to the problem and not to a successful, informative web site.
Don't gripe at the folks that are trying to be sure the rules are being followed. If you don't like the rules, contact Ed Ingold. He is the person that can change the rules...if he sees fit. Its his ball game! We just try to keep the peace and it is quite obvious that we are a necessary part of this, or any public forum...and to me, it is a shame that we have to be here just to keep this great site going. I would think that if the PA web site meant anything to these people, they would do what is asked and stop trying to through a monkey wrench into the works. Pat
I don't think Ed is in charge of the board Pat. I thought it was Marie :o ::) >:D
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Wouldn't Jim just creating a new thread showing those kinds of bows solve this issue, but not on a commercial site? All I know about Moro weapons is that they used bolos, and .38 revolvers weren't much use against them during a certain war.
Dane
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That would be too easy Dane, like I said before, and not near as much fun.Jeeez, what a bore.
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Ladies an gentlemen....by keeping making comments y'all are creating a forum and providing the desired result--------agitation. Like Steve Parker (hillbilly)lets get back ta makin' bows. ;)............bob
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Anyway, Dave Snedecker just posted a link to some cool pictures of Phillipino bows and weapons.
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Just my two cents worth, I think maybe next time if somethign is wrong with a thread maybe the moderator could just jerk the thread and send a private message to the poster as to how he might reword or a short explanation as to why it was pulled. maybe just pull the thread and if the poster asks why let him know, Chances are he will allready know why anyway. Steve
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Steves solution sounds reasonable............
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Steve, that is a great idea. The only problem is that then someone always attacks us for deleting their posts and makes all kinds of nasty accusations. They tell us they are going to complain to the editor and to Monroe and everything else they can think of. Then they start another thread on censorship. BTW for all those who keep mentioning censorship, it is only censorship when it is done by the government or its agents. ::) Anyway back to the problem, it really is a no win situation. We could ignore everything and some people would complain about that. Justin
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Well just lock the damn thing then so people can see it, see why and use their COMMONSENSE. This NON-sense is ridiculous on an adult forum about bows!
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We could do like the Leatherwall and Tradgang and just make it disappear and not give an explanation.
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Like the USSR - off to Siberia and the Gulag :)
These things are always tempests in a teapot, it seems to me.
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ok people arent your legs getting tired yet?
how long are you all going to keep kicking this dead horse?
i think we all get it by now,the link was pulled because it was for a non advertiser.
if this is what this site is going to be about from now on( argument after argument ) then i'll just have to learn bow making the real primitive way.
by trial and error. i know i'll wreck alot of wood that way but atleast there wont be the constant bickering.
dont get me wrong here,i do like this site because of all the knowledge that gets shared by everyone, and it is always appreciated when i ( and others ) get critiqued on what we are attempting to build. i do believe that we newbies learn faster when the more experienced can help, but damn people enough is enough already.
i am never going to read this thread again,just tired of the bickering over all the petty things.
life is easier if one can remember " in life one should never sweat the petty things,and dont worry about what you cannot control."
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Had to kick it one more time......there....I feel better now ;D
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LOL :D :D ;)