Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: whitewoodshunter on August 17, 2008, 01:36:52 am
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This is a question that will have many answers, but I would like to get everyones opinion.Why is Primitive Archery so popular these days? My opinion is that with everyones busy and hectic lives these days this is one way to slow down and enjoy life. Also the thrill of a successful build is awesome!!!The internet helps to,with new ways to get new people involved.
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I have wondered about this myself quite a bit. I know lots of men including myself who once they picked up a piece of wood to make a bow couldn't stop. I have talked to a few people who said they never felt such a feeling of accomplishment. I suspect for a lot of us who are not true artists it gives us an outlet for our creative side. Pretty much a man thing for the most part. After about 11 years of making bows I still feel the same excitement when I pick up a stave and try to find a bow in it somewhere. Outside of testing out my bows I don't even shoot much. I want to open up a coffee shop next year with a yard out in the back for making bows and other primitive related things. I can't think of a better way to retire than just sitting around making bows. If it gets too popular their may not be any good bow trees left after awhile! Steve
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I think in the last few years the internet has give us as a whole a chance to give something back that we all seem to get from primitive archery. Not to many years ago with out the internet there was allot of time that there was just you and maybe your friend siting and building or sharing info now its you and thousands of on line friends siting and sharing the love and skills of what we do..for instance Jacob in the thread Jacobs new bow with out the internet I would never even heard of the event much less end up there to meet him or the young man that won the bow that day.. I'm not very good with explaining things but I think you get what I'm trying to say..
David
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I believe that primitive archery is so popular because we as humans were designed to make things with our hands, and we thrive when we are faced with challenges. So much of the modern world does not require us to act in this way. We are on the verge of not needing these skills to live day to day.
I'm honored to sit around the big bonfire called the internet with you fellas! It's great to share our stories of success and failure.
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I too have thought about this a lot. I think every one of us has some thing in our past that points to where we are regarding making primitive bows. Love of history, maybe hunting for some, using tools, making "stuff" perhaps. I have always been into creating things, model railroading when I was a kid, kites, model tanks and planes, carpentry and helping my dad when he build things around the house. Don't forget pinewood derby in Cub Scouts, lol.
Part of it is love of history, and being a "romantic" when it comes to trying to recreate a long-gone past. I've loved history since I was old enough to read, and having parents who had lots of history books around helped there.
Another part is making something unique that is rare in the world, and wood bows clearly are.
Remember too that bows are simple machines, so maybe that is part of why it is a "guy" thing?
And last, using the internet and this forum makes the journey that much better and more fun. We all live all over the world, but this is kind of our backyard, our local pub, and our classroom.
Dane
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All good responses guys. Thanks for the input.
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I cant say it any better than you guys. Having all of you on this site makes it that much more fun for me. I was into it before but no one cared or understood why I would bother when you can buy a compound and be a good shot in a half hour. There were a lot of us out there with no connection to each other and the internet has brought us together. Once others see how much fun we are having they want to join in on something they may have thought to be too complicated or maybe it just didn't occur to them to try it until it got in there head from the internet. I still think its not as popular as we might think. Most people I know would not know what a selfbow is let alone how to make one. :) Jesse
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I think that one of its big satisfactions is that primitive archery is an island of reality in the middle of a sea of modern disconnection from everything natural and actual. i believe that it's also one of those latent things that's buried somewhere inside of a percentage of us, one of those things we don't even realize is there until we are exposed to it. After our ancestors spent thousands of years of living certain ways and making certain things, maybe some of these things are genetically programmed into us, who knows. Plus, it's just fun-and you don't get the same satisfaction shooting an arrow or taking game with some gadget-laden bow/machine that you bought in a sporting goods store.
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well i cant speak for anyone other than myself.
for me i was fastenated with indians as a young kid and always trying to make my own bows and arrows to play with, used tree roots cause they were flexible,didnt have a clue what i was doing back then,not sure if i have a clue yet.
as i got older,being a guy i like technologicaly advaced stuff ( gadgets,come on who doesnt right ) so i got into wheelie bows because they were modern and had technology built into them ,cool right.
well a few years ago i picked up a magazine at the local news stand, it was called PRIMITIVE ARCHER. well thats about all i needed to get my head back on straight and get my interest back into the indian style bows, or as we call them selfbows. well another hunting season or two went by and i was wanting a new bow.
i went down to all the big box type stores and priced out all the new wheel bows and the things they call long bows. holy crap you damn near need a second mortgage to buy one of these i thought out loud,the guy behind the counter smirked. i walked out all disappointed because not only could i not justify that kind of money on a new bow, i just plain couldnt afford it either.
then i got to remembering that first and only issue of PA that i bought a couple of years earlier. i remember seeing pictures in there of bows that readers made.
i thought to myself " hey i bet i could do that too",even though i have never been good at wood working,thats why icbecame an auto tech and not a carpenter lol
so i did a little research. since i dont have access to trees that can be cut i purchased a floor tillered stave on line,then another and anonther. now i have been succesfull with four or five bows. i am damn glad i couldnt afford that new bow.
so for me the popularity came out of the lack of $$$ and the want of a new hunting bow, now i can afford a new bow several times a year. i have a nice little collection of staves that growing like,well like a small forest. the pleasure of knowing that i made that, and now i have friends who want them too,but they dont want to go thru with the manual labor of making it for themselves, i tell them what kind of wood i want they cut the tree,i make them one bow out of the tree i keep remaining staves >:D
well like i said,cant speak for others but this is what got my intrest
peace,
tim
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One reason I like it so much is I like to be different :) I've always been the black sheep in a flock of white ones 8)
To quote Hillbilly "An island of reality in the middle of a sea of modern disconnection" to me this means I feel sane and normal
when building bows or doing other paleo things.
Wife and I went to the UP State fair the other day, yes she made me go ;) I didn't want to but ya have to give a little sometimes,
we walked around saw the sites ate greasy food etc, well the wife could see I was getting antsy, did I mention I don't like crowds, so she suggested we go take in the
old village that has been built on the grounds. As soon as we got to it my blood pressure dropped and I relaxed, this village is based on pioneer days, one room schoolhouse, black smith, candlemaker, steam tractors and sawmill well you get the idear. Point I'm trying to make is I felt at home there :)
Same thing happens when I get to making a bow, knapping, or whatever, blood pressure drops, time slows and and good energy flows ;D
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I have to say that Hillbilly and I are on the same page here. 8) We(modern man) aren't that far separated from our hunter/gatherer ancestors and I'm sure all of this "need" for primitive archery, etc is part of that connection. Steve came from a back ground where these things were more pertinent to his and his family's lifestyle. I grew up in the city and didn't get really introduced to hunting and other outdoor activities until I was almost 30. It didn't take me long with all the bells and whistles to realize there had to be a simpler way. Now my goal is to see how simple I can make my equipment and still be effective...not easy but simple. This addiction of ours is an escape from our high tech, fast pace world and we are fortunate enough to realize its necessity and to take advantage of the opportunities available to us here on PA and a few other sites.
I built bows for over 10 years before I had anyone else to talk to about it. PA has given me access to the best wood bowyers in the world and I feel fortunate to be a part of it all. 8) 8) 8) Pat
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in one way or another everyone so far has voiced how building bows has effected my life. so theres not much else to say. the first thing that came to mind when i saw the cover of TBB-1 was art and function. it is amazing to me how deeply this process has effected me to my core. thank you, starting this subject,forgive me for not being able to articulate myself better.
chuck
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Everything everyone else has said. I also like not depending on the "middle man" for things I can make myself.
I killed a doe last season with a bow that I had all of $6 invested in. I have friends that spend more than that on peep sights. Saw Filer
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Money has always been a big limiting factor for my family. Don't really have alot of extra cash to throw around, and besides, "do-it-yourselfing" runs in the family. So, when I becaame interested in wilderness survival and hunting, it is only natural that I took to making my own bows and arrows. I tried buying the fiberlgass longbows and recurves, but after two bows, I realized the only thing I was giving up to the "modern bows" was acceptance by the modern mind set and crowd. Oh well, there was always Primitive Archer! Better people there anyway ;D. A wooden bow gives nothing up but a few fps to it's fiberglass look-alike, and I get alot more fun building a fully-functional longbow myself than working for weeks at a broing job to get the money to buy one without a soul :D!
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To Add to whats been said allready,Primitive archery,makes the archer more personally involved with their archery and or hunting.Provideing that they are do it yourselvers.
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Nice thread!!
I second what you have allreadyly said guys.. :).
Kegan,
I really am with you mate, so I think as you when I was looking for some traditional bows/arrows (these wooden arrows with plastic feathers that are available in some shops...). Then when I asked for the price of these, I finally thought of making my owns!!.
The same came out with the bows!! :) ;)...then with the quiver armguard, tab/globe etc...
Hopefully internet is AWESOME, and find sites like this and guys as you are mates made the rest I needed to finally to be hanged in this for the rest of my life...thatīs FANTASTIC.
I also think as Steve (Badger), I think many of us, if not all, have a "talen" inside us that have to come outside and our brain and hands are the place where the talen have to come out, in our case in form of bows arrows etc...
Cheers...
Asier.
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Popular? Where? Honestly, I'm getting a bit discouraged. Back in the early 90's at 3d trad shoots I'd be the only one shooting a selfbow. Then by the late 90's early 2000's I'd see a fair amount of selfbows at trad 3d shoots. At Denton I don't think I saw 10 selfbow shooters. I actually had a shooter wait around to watch me shoot an "old time bow". BTW composite all wood bows and wooden backed bows not included. I hafta work harder to get more people interested. Jawge
http://mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni/
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Popular? Where? Honestly, I'm getting a bit discouraged.
I'm with you George. There are approximately 6,677,563,921 people on this plannet with a growth rate of 1.159%. Where are the throngs of people making this a popular sport/hobby. Some of us are addicted for sure, but we are a rare minority. Justin
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I wonder what the growth rate of this hobby is? maybe sales of books such as traditional bowyers bibles, PA magazine, and online bow sight registrations would be a fair indicator. Steve
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I think our popularity is hard to measure accurately since like archery many do it by themselves...I think the forum numbers are a microcosm when one considers 120,000+ PA mags go out every few months..Heck the ten they get in the local store here sell out every time, and I try and find out who is buying them just to meet more local folks..
I also think it's growth is also part of what makes us human...since not too long ago humans had to be good at these skills to eat..., and it is a lot of "fun", and that's integral in our make-up as well..
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I think it's great that so many different folks from different area's of the world speak the same language through primitive archery!
For me, hunting with a primitive bow seems so right...it's like what I should be and was meant to do.
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For me it must have been imprinted in my dna. Since as far back as I and even my grandparents can remember I have been obsessive about finding arrow-heads and making bows. When other little boys would say they wanted to grow up to be firemen and such, I'd say that I wanted to grow up to be an Indian. That meant going deep into some vast forest and living the entire life. Now I'm married with children, but my wife beads and my kids shoot bows that we make together. So making bows for me now is a way to exist in both worlds. However if the stuff ever hits the fan they all know where we can go and live, and in style.
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I'm with George,I love it and try to get others into it but usually they build one or 2 and then for some reason they just move on,I guess just the every once in a while that someone gets hook and stays with it is worth the effort.I haven't always done it but I like Thimo have always thought about as long as I can remember and now can't think of anything else I would rather do.
It does seem to be growing from time to time and then it all seem to go away.As for me
I like doing it with others but if no one else was doing it I can promas I will keep it up. :)
Pappy
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For me it was an internal calling from the age of 7. On my way to school one snowy day I noticed rabbits in the neighborhood and thought about how exciting and fun it would be to stalk them with a homemade bow and arrow. I never forgot that day. There is so much satisfaction and ownership in the overall experience of the hunt using tools crafted from mother nature. I can't imagine doing it any other way!
Tracy
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For me it has been a great voyage of rediscovery. I didnt take too well to woodworking at school, preferring metalwork instead. During the summer holidays we used to make bows and arrows out of anything we could find, and there was something about the ballistics and the inherent danger that took root right there and then. When I started college I stopped doing all that stuff, and archery / outdoors pursuits of any kind just went away. Girls, bikes (motorcycles), and partying just used up all my free time 8)
A few years back I decided that I needed to do a new hobby outdoors, and I looked into archery again. Here in the UK my main interest was field archery, and I've been lucky to have an active club near enough on my doorstep, so I had a play, and then joined up. Since then, enjoying being back in the woods, I moved from bought FB recurves to bought ELB, all the while learing to make better and better arrows. As my confidence improved I decided to have a go at a bough-bow using a yew branch. That went ok too (nothing special), but then I took a 2 day course with Chris Boyton (to make an ELB), and a course with Hilary Greenland (to make a primitive ash flatbow). Then I discovered you guys here at PA. I was hooked. >:D. I got the full set of TBB, and there's no limit. Tbb IV just turned up as a birthday present too.
A while back 'markinengland' started on-line discussions about having a primitve class in our field archery society. It sounded good to me, so I got on board with him, and now there's quite a few people competing in the class when I go to shoots in my area (SE England).
Shortly after that point I decided that I wanted to make all of my own gear. On Friday I finished my second quiver, and went to a shoot with it yesterday. It works great, and got a fair few comments (some asking what kind of animal was climbing my back....). So, all I have to make now is:
1. A knife (but I have two bought gorgeous lappish knives already)
2. a bag to hold some of my stuff in, and
3. a new tab.
Give me a week, and I hope to have #2 and #3 done ;D The knife will take a little longer, but a friend of mine is a blacksmith, so that will something else to try........
I just love the challenge of making things with my hands. The more I make, the better I get. The more things I see on PA, the more I want to make too. It's a vicious circle that I cant seem to get out of :D
Keep up the good work my friends!
//Bob
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I think that the global sharing of knowledge has got to be one of the biggest reasons for the expansion of this craft. Word has it that I live about twenty minutes from Gary Davis but I've never met the man. My buddy Rick in New York told me about this site one day when we were chatting on the phone. He is the only other bowyer that I know. It would have taken me years of broken sticks to learn what a few months on this site have taught me. When I shot my first bow I felt invigorated as though I had climbed a mountain and ascended toward my ancestors. It also bent my memory back to cub scout camp and playing "cowboys and Indians" as a child. When that bow broke I felt the sting of defeat but the challenge had a lasting allure. Without the web I'd be in the woods this season with my heavy wheelie arrow flinging machine, no escape from metal, machines, and tech fibers. My soul would be crying out for the romance of the almost weightless feel of the bent stick and the beauty of the natural wood. It doesn't get any simpler than a stick and a string. :)
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I wholeheartedly agree with everything that has been said here. I love the inexpensive aspect, the return to ancestral skills, the magic of making a piece of wood into a functional weapon, the sense of history, the sheer love of a smooth piece of wood, and all the other things. I think Hillbilly kind of hit on something that all of us feel, though. I am fed up with the artificiality that you see everywhere in today's society. Everything has to be a quick fix. There is very little true craftsmanship. When I see the mastery of the contributors on this site, I am so inspired with the genius, patience, and ingenuity of these men and women. Primitive archery is one of the last vestiges of genuineness in our society. Of course, it is ironic that we communicate with such a modern engine as the internet, but without it and the wonderful people at PA, many of us would never get to know and appreciate each other. The appeal of primitive archery is also very contagious. I cannot tell you how many people have met me at a demonstration or festival and have come over to my shop to learn how to make a selfbow. They are so proud when they leave with a beautiful, slender, tapered weapon that only hours before was a ragged piece of a split log.
Dan Spier
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I think in the last few years the internet has give us as a whole a chance to give something back that we all seem to get from primitive archery.
I think you're right. That's really ironic, too.
It took something as advanced and modern as the Internet to revive something as primitive and simple as primitive archery. There's poetry in that somewhere.
:D
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wow guys never expected such good feedback!!! Thanks.
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My personal opinion is that it isn't very popular. When you look at a cross section of the population vs how many of us actually do it, I'll bet it is a super small percentage. I mean really, you look at archers in general I don't think there are that many around here that do it. Here is a good example. I have only been doing this since August of Last year. I studied everything I could get my hands on, thank God I found this and a couple other sites and I learned alot from this media but still no one I knew had any interest in it. When spring time rolled around I found out about a club called the Ninescah Bowhunters Association where they shoot 3-D. I went out there and found they had about a dozen traditional shooters ( FG Longbows and recurves) and mostly all the others ( at least a hundred guys) that shoot compound. It was fun just to be around guys that were into archery period. The grounds are great and the membership is only $40yr unlimited fhishing and camping, so I signed up. I have been to about 6 shoots there this summer and when the cyborg shooters ( my pet name for compound bows) started seeing that I could actually hit the target and was doing pretty good they started asking questions. Yesterday I took my paleo buddy/bowyer Jimmy Egger and we had several guys asking us how much to make them one. I think we are starting to generate some interest, but we wil see. My plan is to either recruit or find 3 more guys that will go with us on a regular basis and make have the club start a selfbow class. The thing I am noticing about primitve archers is they are more likley to not be online as they are more prone to be anti technology, and we as a group tend to be alot less likely to be running with the herd and whether anyone else is doing it or not we will. For me this is how I have acted out my midlife crisis. Instead of a shiney red sports car and a trophy wife 15yrs my younger, I have chosen to contiue to love my wife of 23yrs and also answer the call of the wild. Now I spend most of my non family time either in the woods or in the shop scrapping limbs or stalking around the yard shooting at my black bear ( given to me by a 70yr old primitve shooter/knife maker( I met camping that can't draw more than 30lbs now that his shoulder is all worn out). There is nothing I have done in my life up to this point that has given me greater satisfaction than making and shooting my own bows and the guys I have corresponded with on the net and some of whom I have met in person are with out question some of the most generous, helpful, considerate and intelligent people I have ever known and I for one am grateful for having been blessed enough to have found this passion. Danny
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Hi, Pepe, how goes it man?
Sidewinder, I suspect that bowyers were always a fairly rare craftsman, even when primitive bows were not primitive, and atlats were probably considered quaint and primitive. So, betcha some bow makers from 2,000 years ago were having some kind of conversation just like this, but not over the Internet, of course :) I'd like to think each tribe had one talented bow maker, and some apprentices and other guys who could also make them if necessary, but also string makers, arrow makers, knappers, bronze or iron smiths, etc. We have to do pretty much everything, but back in "the day," there were specialists for lots of jobs we do to get a bow out on the range or in the woods.
Dane
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Dane....your probabley right.
Jawge...don't get discouraged brother. You are a beacon in the night to those of us that were looking for direction. We really appreciate you and all you have done to help newbies and novices get better. Thanks man. Danny
Another point to be made is primitve bowyering is not for the fast food mentality and thats what most poeple have these days. They want it now. Most of hte people I know, although they are good folks, just don't have what it takes to take the road less traveled.This takes a little longer but its worth the wait. I like to call it the scenic route. Its miy favorite. Danny
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Another point: Would any of us really be happy if this wierd addiction of ours suddenly became mainstream, and everybody started doing it? If we saw ads for Bo-Gold osage staves and Slam-Boo cane shafts on TV every weekend and everybody else was arguing over which brand of flint arrowheads had the best penetration would we really like it? Hell no-I wouldn't. Not to sound "elitist", but I think part of the satisfaction of our pastime is that not just anyone is capable of making or shooting these weapons of ours. It takes a combination of skill, patience, perserverance, the right attitude, and some natural aptitude to do a lot of what we do, and it does feel pretty good to be one of a small group of people who can make a weapon and ammunition from nothing but the natural materials natural surrounding us and take it out and kill game with it. Self-reliance is pretty satisfying. I have the strange feeling that if everybody started shooting wooden bows, a lot of us would switch to hunting with atlatls, spears, or sharp, overgrown toenails. ;D
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Another point: Would any of us really be happy if this wierd addiction of ours suddenly became mainstream, and everybody started doing it? If we saw ads for Bo-Gold osage staves and Slam-Boo cane shafts on TV every weekend and everybody else was arguing over which brand of flint arrowheads had the best penetration would we really like it? Hell no-I wouldn't. Not to sound "elitist", but I think part of the satisfaction of our pastime is that not just anyone is capable of making or shooting these weapons of ours. It takes a combination of skill, patience, perserverance, the right attitude, and some natural aptitude to do a lot of what we do, and it does feel pretty good to be one of a small group of people who can make a weapon and ammunition from nothing but the natural materials natural surrounding us and take it out and kill game with it. Self-reliance is pretty satisfying. I have the strange feeling that if everybody started shooting wooden bows, a lot of us would switch to hunting with atlatls, spears, or sharp, overgrown toenails. ;D
my thoughts exactly!
Phil
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I have the strange feeling that if everybody started shooting wooden bows, a lot of us would switch to hunting with atlatls, spears, or sharp, overgrown toenails.
;D ;D ;D
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Funny guys!!! But seriously I get your point and totally agree!!!!
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I've got some killer toenails :o Seriously primitive archery is just way cooler than any of the other choices.
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So Hillbilly, you say we all enjoy being odd? I guess I can't argue with that. That is definitely part of the draw. ;D Justin
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Thanks, sidewinder. Let's not rest though. There's work to do. Gotta spread the happiness. :) Jawge
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I feel that our connections to the ancient ways are only natural.. besides the inner caveman in me must be released upon the wilderness or the universe will come to a sudden standstill ;D ;D ;) Happy hunting brothers and sisters of the bow.. Hawk
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Hillbilly, when you said toes nails I envisioned a picture of Thimo with that grimace of his when he is drawing back a bow and him pouncing from above with his taloned toenails ready to pounce on the back of an unsuspecting doe. Lol Danny
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This is a good thread....and I agree with the guys that have said that primitive archery really isn't (and hopefully never will be) popular. However, if it wasn't for the recent renaissance in all things primitive, I wouldn't have been able to advance my skills nearly as quickly (or obtain "rare" materials through trades/purchases). I'm sure many of us remember a time when we had to gather everything ourselves and learn by trial and error. We take it for granted that we can now buy stuff like wood shoots, heat treated stone, pine pitch glue, bowyer's manuals, shredded sinew, etc, etc. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing that more people are into primitive archery these days.
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I don't think primitive archery will ever be popular. I know lots of really lazy people who use compounds around here, just to "get them deer". It takes a romantic's soul to take up the wooden bow, and I don't know about you, but I don't see alot of that today.
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I know lots of really lazy people who use compounds around here, just to "get them deer".
hey i resemble that remark,not cause i'm lazy. only because i've gotta take my training wheel bow again this year.
i really gotta quite making bows for others so i can finish atleast one hunting bow for myself. after all that is why i
started this after all, cause i wanted a new hunting bow,still dont have it though lol
peace,
tim
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Well it is popular with us so thats all that counts. But i would like to get others involved though.
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I know lots of really lazy people who use compounds around here, just to "get them deer".
hey i resemble that remark,not cause i'm lazy. only because i've gotta take my training wheel bow again this year.
i really gotta quite making bows for others so i can finish atleast one hunting bow for myself. after all that is why i
started this after all, cause i wanted a new hunting bow,still dont have it though lol
peace,
tim
I was more referring to the fact that they don't care how they do it, they just want to see a dead deer at their feet. If they could use machine guns they would, I'm sure, but you're only allowed bows (and now crossbows) during archery season (which they seem to feel is a cheat to rifle hunters, hence taking up compound bows).
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ya i knew what ya meant,just had to throw that in there.
hell i dont even care if a get to draw back al season long as long as i get to go into the woods ;D
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Marketing.
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Good, I just didn't want to upset anyone :).
I don't care if it becomes popular, so long as they respect what I use. if they don't respect my choice in weapons, then I won't respect theirs.
Woody- you got it.
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I totally agree with you Kegan!!!!