Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Boro on November 06, 2008, 12:07:43 pm

Title: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Boro on November 06, 2008, 12:07:43 pm
Hello good people,
I got some wood under the name hickory. It does not resemble to hickory to me so I must say - I don't know. Here are some pics of it and I would apricieate some help regarding this wood.

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB060039.jpg)

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB060036.jpg)

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB060037.jpg)

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB040034.jpg)

I also started a bow of it  and made it to the short string. It is 68 ntn bent handle quite narrow (the stave didn't allow any wider) 7/8, with a twist in one limb and a knot in the other. Since it is not done yet I don't have a draw weight but I am hoping for at least 40@28. I could not brace it without a stringer so I think it will make 40 at the end. I allready have some string follow 1 1/2 (due to the narrowness IMO). All opinions are welcome.
Thanks
Boris
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Papa Matt on November 06, 2008, 12:14:50 pm
Here's my take. It resembles in some ways hickory that I have worked with before, that had some sort of disease which turned the wood a different color and made it softer because it was essentially dead wood. The tree itself was still alive when I cut it, because it had green leaves. But the wood is not the same. It was softer, worked different, and was not quite as strong. This may be what you have.

Have you worked hickory before, so as to know what it should be like? Does this wood feel softer (can your fingernail put a significant groove in it)? If you scrape it, does it scrape very easily, losing larger flakes at a time?

~~Papa Matt
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Boro on November 06, 2008, 12:24:37 pm
Pappa Matt,
I haven't worked hickory before, this would be my first encounter with it. As for the fingernale test it does not leave any marks and i have a sharp hiss sound with a drawknife and slow progress with a rasp. Hard and heavy wood. Made a tillering tree out of it too.

I also have some tillering issues since it has twist in one limb and a knot in the other. What do You make of it?
thanks
Boris

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB030025.jpg)

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB030028.jpg)

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB040032.jpg)

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB030025.jpg)
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: JackCrafty on November 06, 2008, 12:33:04 pm
At first glance it looked like walnut to me.  In any case, if it's hard and heavy it should make a good bow.  If it's taking a lot of set, it may not be fully dry...and might be a reason for the heaviness of the wood.
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Papa Matt on November 06, 2008, 12:38:05 pm
If the fingernail does not leave a mark, then from the looks of it and what you say, I believe it is hickory. Looks like some staves are of sapwood and others from heartwood, causing them to have different colors.

As for your tiller, you could take some twist out by steam bending, or perhaps by just using dry heat. I have always steamed hickory but I think some have said on here that you can use just dry heat. This would make your tillering easier. Just take it slow and only bend it just enough on your tiller tree to see what needs work and don't over stress the wood. Looks like your doing ok. The right limb seems fine so far, you just need to work on that left limb with the twist. I would probably try to steam the twist out. Let's see what some others have to say.

~~Papa Matt
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Boro on November 06, 2008, 12:43:09 pm
Of coarse all are welcome to say anything. I am a total novice and need as much feedback as possible.
Boris
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: adb on November 06, 2008, 12:50:49 pm
Could be a hickory heartwood board, cuz of the darker color. Not as good as hickory sapwood. I had a hickory heartwood board, which I cut into backing strips. Didn't work very well... had several failures.
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Pat B on November 06, 2008, 01:33:49 pm
Pecan is a hickory. Maybe it is pecan or heartwood hickory.    Pat
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: RidgeRunner on November 06, 2008, 02:25:33 pm
Looks like Walnut to me.

David
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: koan on November 06, 2008, 05:46:22 pm
Got 2 hickory boards in the shed just like it....its heartwood( always make sure to order sapwood...DOH!) :-[....Brian
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Hillbilly on November 06, 2008, 05:47:03 pm
Some of the hickories have dark heartwood like that, our mockernut hickory here is like that. The grain looks like hickory.
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: knightd on November 06, 2008, 05:52:57 pm
Looks like hickory heart wood.. To me
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Boro on November 06, 2008, 06:18:14 pm
Well, even if it is not a sapling I won't burn it  :P
I need a lots of practice. This will be good for practice.

So You ordered it also Brian?  ;D

Thanks for looking and answering
Boris
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: koan on November 06, 2008, 06:21:46 pm
Ya, from a local sawmill...forgot to specify sapwood...got about 30-40 board feet..lol
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: sailordad on November 06, 2008, 06:42:32 pm
as far as the twist goes, leave it there,tiller around it accordinly

it adds a nice bit of character.that little bit of twist will be a nice learning experience and yet shouldnt be all that difficult to tiller with,jmho

                                                                        peace,
                                                                               tim
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 06, 2008, 07:04:50 pm
Is that a board? It doesn't seem suitable for a bow so I would consider a backing of silk, burlap, linen. Even with that it looks questionable. There's board info on my site. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: orcbow on November 06, 2008, 07:58:04 pm
That wood is probably walnut, it looks semi-diffuse porous in the close-up, and it has the right color. HIckory is ring-porous. Not many North American woods are semi-diffuse porous, and that dark. The color of air-dried walnut can vary, and one of the pictures shows the classic "stripe" pattern of walnut, bands of slightly different colors, almost like zebra stripes. By the way Hickory is in the Walnut Family of tree species.
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: redwasp on November 06, 2008, 08:34:38 pm
i have an ipe board that looks like that...
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: ballista on November 06, 2008, 09:26:41 pm
hmm... thats real dark, it might be a medetterain hickory, theres no way thats pignut hickory- i think george hit it on the head with the backing, its a natural bow so i'd go with a store bought burlap (my personal favorite) or if you have sinew or drill a decent sized game, perhaps use that ;D oh, one tough lesson i learned, kinda common sense though: if you have a little thought on recurving the bow, dont back it until after you recurve those tips- i f'ed up my first osage a week or two that way. good luck brother, so far that thing looks like a trophy to me, alot of charecter. as far as the tiller... dont ask me, thats a spot i need to work on ;D -jimmy
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: 1/2primitive on November 06, 2008, 10:49:39 pm
Yep, it looks like Hickory heartwood to me.
    Sean
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Boro on November 07, 2008, 07:41:58 am
It is quite difficult to get good wood here. Hickory is not domestic here (Croatia, that's southeast Europe + Mediteran on the coast) so You can imagine what comes here as for imported wood.

George,
Should I back it becaouse it is kiln dried or becaouse the grain goes everywhere? I faithfully followed one ring for the back of the bow. Hence the twist.

Ballista,
I am not even a half way to tiller it and allready it took about 1 1/2 of set. So I think I will have to recurve the tips slightly. Thanks for the heads up. BTW no hunting with a bow here. Only 3d and stumping.

BTW
I am missing some english words, what exatly is burlap (linen and silk I know ;D)

Boris
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Hillbilly on November 07, 2008, 09:38:52 am
Boris, burlap is a coarse fabric usually woven from jute. It is commonly used here for storage bags for grain, potatoes, and such. (tow sacks).
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 07, 2008, 09:58:58 am
Definitely back it. Jawge
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: ballista on November 07, 2008, 11:20:31 pm
 i'd recurve the tips, its not too hard, boost the beauty of the bow, keeps the set down, and im sure it boosts the sped up a bit also. oh george, do you use stretch wrap on backings or another method? keep us posted boro, and good luck man- if it makes you feel anty better, i have my first osage bow, 3 cracks and recurved tips, the one i screwed up, missed a shot at a small squirrel :-\ good luck though man. -jimmy
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Boro on November 10, 2008, 06:18:40 am
Thanks all, will get back with it. For the moment I am waiting for string materials that I ordered. Have only fast flight string, don't want to mess up the bow.
Boris
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious..../I'm back
Post by: Boro on November 17, 2008, 04:42:29 am
Hello all, I'm back.
I played with it awhile and here is what came out:

Unbraced:

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB160118.jpg)

Braced:

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB160109.jpg)

Full draw:

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB160108.jpg)

(http://i345.photobucket.com/albums/p391/primitivan/kroz%20drsku/PB160112.jpg)


And the stats are:
68 ntn
45 @ 28
after about 100 full draws and 60-70 arrows tiller (as it is  :P)  is unchanged and set is at 2 inches.
I would really apricieate Your reflection on the tiller before I silk back it, finish it, and seal it. The left/lower limb seems a bit stiff but I don't have a clear view what to do becaouse of the shape of the limb. While drawing the twist is straightening so I guess it is ok.
To resume, as it is my first working bow (so far) I am satisfied.
Thanks for looking
Boris
P.S.
Maybe I can change my signature now  :D
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: orcbow on November 17, 2008, 09:03:33 am
Boro- Great job with your bow!

I think the left/lower limb looks stiff in the picture where the bow is on the tillering stick. When you are holding the bow, the tiller looks better because of where you place your hand to hold it. But is that what you want? It looks like the upper limb is shorter than the lower limb when you are bracing the bow. 
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: a finnish native on November 17, 2008, 09:25:01 am
nice! the left limb (lower) is a bit still from midlimb and out, so I would scrape some off there that the limbs would be balanced, but if it works good and you see no problems I would leave it as it is.
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Boro on November 17, 2008, 09:26:15 am
Thanks ;D. I think it appears so becaouse I tilted the bow while holding it. And the shadows on the wall have their part in this optical phenomena. Anyway it was intended to be simetrical. The center is in the middle of the handle and arrow rest is 2 inches above. I know that with this design I must have lower limb a bit stiffer but it is confuzing me becaouse of its shape.
Boro
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: orcbow on November 17, 2008, 10:08:09 am
 You are very close anyway you look at it!! Like the finnish native said, a little more scraping and you will have it!  You may lose a couple of pounds of draw weight, but still an excellent work  ;D
Title: Re: This wood seems souspicious....
Post by: Boro on November 19, 2008, 07:31:37 am
Thanks for the compliments, as they are also a part of satisfaction derived from this; especially when expirienced people say good words about novices efforts.
 :D :D

Boris