Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: roofus on November 26, 2008, 03:30:29 pm
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Hi all:
I am new to this forum and I am a primitive archer. I use my bows for target shooting as well as big game hunting.
I have a 60's Damon Howatt recurve and two longbows that I built myself.
I would like to build a longbow that is sufficient for hunting big game and was wondering if anyone could suggest a wood type along with a style that would
balance performance and durability. Thank you.
Regards,
Roofus
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Welcome aboard! One word... osage.
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Welcome, Roofus. Many of the bows you see here on PA would be suitable for big game hunting and will make a durable bow of balanced performance. There are as many woods as there are bows. Your location, draw length, draw weight and style of hunting will help to determine what you need. Pat
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I hear people saying alot about Osage but I don't see alot of Osage bows being sold. Is Osage a trend? I'm not picking a fight and I mean no offense by the question I just don't have alot of experience and so I am looking for proven material and a proven design. I'm not looking to build something just because it's the flavor of the month. I want the only issue with my equipment to be operator errors. (I've got that covered, I can goof anything up) I have also heard alot about Bamboo backed Hickory anyone have any experience with this?
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yes osage is a great bow wood,so is yew,black locust,ipe and many more. to get a good bow from any wood,design needs to be considered.
i dont think osage is just a flavor of the month,it is very popular because it can be forgiving and yet be very user friendly and can be adjusted fairly easy with heat.
other woods have ther benifits too.like pat said youj info will help determine the type of local wood and style that should work out for ya.
welcome and good luck ;D
peace,
tim
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Thanks for the info. I am in Northern Colorado and I have a good source of woods, however none of it is still standing. I have to but it from a shop, so it takes some fishing around to find the right piece. What do you think makes the fastest bow? Osage built reflex/deflex? Bamboo backed Hickory? Sinew backed Oak?
Again not alot of experience so all feed back is priceless to me. Thank you!!!
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welcome brother, I am not much of a bowyer,but hunt everything with my bows.. Osage is tough, durable and holds up to the punishment i put my bows through.. happy huntng.... marc st louis built me a hickory backed osage 60# at 28 she shoots faster than any of the other bows i have.. Hawk
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roofus we have a trad shoot in cheynnen sat come on up look at some of the bows there maybe you ll get some better ideas just lookin around and watchin my boy shoot s a bamboo/hickory and loves it i shoot a yew long bow but lot s of em work here where we live iv probley got 6 osage bows i shoot off and on and love em all so come up have a look sat a m brock
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Roofus. I don't know a whole lot, but If you want a fast shooting, stable, laminated bow, go with a R/D boo/osage. If you want a self bow that will last longer than you will, go with osage. Its definitley not just flavor oif the month. The thing about osage is its not real tempermental and where abuse and humidity is concerned its hard to beat.It will cover up a lot of beginners design flaws and still make a meat maker.
You realize don't you, that you live only a couple hundred miles from some of the best creek bottom osage in all the world. Kansas and Oklahoma. If it can survive out here and still grow sraight enough to make a bow out of it, it'll last a liong time( thats the trickey part...straight enough). You can't go wrong with it. I don't care what anyone says. There are alot of good bow woods but I don't know anyone that will tell you that osage is not a smart way to go, no matter how wet or dry or rough and tumble the environmnt. Unless they don't have good access to it and then I understand their need to adapt and ovecome. I must ask forgiveness though, cuz I live in the land of osage( Kansas) and I am hear to tell ya, the yellow brick road is not paved in gold bricks, but if it was it would be in 4x4x8 osage bricks and it would last longer than you an me. Danny
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Sounds like then Bamboo backed Osage is the way to go. I really apreciate everyones input. Thanks a million.
I guess I can purchase a stave online? Any leads?
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Welcome Roofus,just jump right in with any questions,I don't have all the answers but I bet you will find it here.Osage is great wood but so are a lot of others,Hickory,Ash,Maple,IronWood and many
more that will make a good hunting bow.Grab a piece and go at it. :)
Pappy
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Osage.
I have built bows of Yew, Oak, Vine Maple, various laminate combinations, etc. My Osage Flat Bow is the one I pick up for Elk, Deer, etc. It takes very little set even after a long day in the September woods. Shoots where I look. Has tolerable hand shock and decent arrow speed. But best of all it doesn't care if it rains, snows, sleets, freezes, or gets hotter than hades. Not the prettiest bow I have ever made, not the fastest. It just keeps on keeping on.
After 6 hunting seasons, a couple thousand arrows, and who knows how many 3-D shoots, this bow is looking a little ragged, (snakeskin backing is beginning to fray) but still shoots a 535grain arrow through my pro-chrono at 151fps 3shot average. Not bad for a 53# bow.
I guess what I am saying is
OSAGE.
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for a first time hunting bow? not osage. i have never lived near osage and dont have experience with it, but this is my personal opinion based on the ease with which one can make a solid white wood bow. a hickory bow is as sturdy to being beat up as osage is, or close to it, and there isnt the issue of chasing a ring to get the back. a wide ash bow is maybe something that you wouldnt be able to use as a crowbar but the wood is a pleasure to work and being wide it shouldnt be finicky, etc. nothing against osage bowyers-i just really like whitewoods and they have always been hassle free for me.
there isnt really any flavor of the month in primitive bowyery, the designs are based on the wood used, the weight intended, and the draw length required with a healthy dose of engineering built into them. as many here have shown, about any wood can make a bow. a solid hunter would be easiest to get out of any reasonably hard wood-start with elm or ash or so and anything more sturdy than them. for a starter avoid evergreens, poplars, birches, etc. about the easiest/quickest bow for a first timer is the red oak board bow, instructions for which can be found multiple places including on jawge's website (search for him, he is a member here). SOM
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SOM:
Thanks for the input. The two longbows that I built were of Red Oak backed with fiberglass tape. I followed a build along on a web site. Bow building for apartment dwellers. Something like that. One of the bows is 72" and 40# @ 28" the other is 58" and 45# @ 26" for my 15 year old son. He's small but strong.
They turned out o.k. and shoot well at the range but I want to step it up a notch for my hunting bow. I don't "feel" like the oak will perform like I think it needs to. I'll try to get some pics up to show you what I can do from a craftsmanship stand point. I think I am seviceable craftsman , But I need to learn the rules or ins and outs of bow building.
Here is a link to my bow pics http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll124/roofus5/Johnson%2010/Bows/ (http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll124/roofus5/Johnson%2010/Bows/)
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Roofus, check out the trading post here on PA for staves, Im sure you can find some body that can hook you up.
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Where you live a good osage board backed with hickory or bamboo would work just fine. You can heat and bend the board into a reflex and then glue the bamboo on. Go to the bottom of the page to the Classifieds and you will see some of the advertisers. Three Rivers among a few others, like Mike Yancy sell what you need to make a great bow, right down to the instructional video's and books. Or after you get the materials, advice on this site is free. And welcome aboard.
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to be honest, you can hunt with a selfbow, hickory is one of the best woods ive ever worked with, but ive never made anything shorter than 66 inches, if you're stand hunting you might want to have a good shortbow.as far as i can say, hickory is one of the best core woods out there, osage makes a much better shortbow than longbow from what ive read. good luck man. -jimmy
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I'm looking at probably 72" and I only hunt from the ground using whatever natural blinds I can.
Is Hickory with no backing very durable? Can I get minimum 50# out of it?
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Roofus, check out the trading post here on PA for staves, Im sure you can find some body that can hook you up.
Don't you have a shed full of osage Auggie ;) >:D Or did Brian swipe it all ;)
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you should be able to get that out of hickory, as i have a elb of it that is only an inch wide by a half inch thick and it draws 45, a wider, shorter bow should reach 50 lbe fairly easily. i am also a beginer and dont really have much experience, but i am partial to hickory. best of luck!
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Welcome . Nice looking bows in that picture. Great wood color combo in the handles.
I like bamboo backed ipe myself. It makes a very durable and very fast bow with a really narrow profile. The wood is easier to find than osage for me and its usually nice and straight so you can just go to work. Osage is great wood, top of the list, but tends to be twisted or snakey or both. Also if you make a selfbow out of it you have to follow one growth ring on the back. Its not that hard and can be relaxing and fun but it is a bit more work. A good osage stave might run you $50. A piece of bamboo and an ipe board will be about $30. A selfbow will always be way cooler in my book but I think its easier to get a fast shooter from a boo backed osage or ipe. Like others said though these are just a few of the many good bow woods out there. Im finishing up a hard maple bow right now that is shooting really hard and fast.
Jesse
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Thanks. I will really think hard before I decide what to use.
The bows in the pics are made of Oak with a fiberglass backing and redwood,mahogany, and maple for the risers.
I built them from a build along on a web site called Bow Building for Poor People and Apartment Dwellers or something like that. I thought it was cool and I admire that guy. I work out of my two car garage and I still don't have enough room. I would imagine that guy is on this forum somewhere.
Anyway, I really do appreciate all the feedback from you folks.
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Roo, Son of Massey speaks with great wisdom. Good toasted belly hickory D-bow can have you shooting a powerful as you want durable bow in one day. They also can be made to look as pretty and fancy a you want.
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if you are willing to go to 72" long than the whitewoods are very much an option for you. they tend to be straighter, the back doesnt have to be worked, and for a first few bows they are an easier way to get a shooter done. hickory will allow you to go into the low 50's as far as length and still be making a reasonably dependable hunting bow, and it can be made to your weight easily enough. if you go to about the 65" range you are in a comfortable, safe range-especially for tough hickory. the reasons white woods so much all center around efficiency and ease. the wood can be cut and made into a bow in relatively short time. the wood is usually fairly straight grained. the back does not need to be chased down to one ring. more of these trees are common to more areas, and due to the straightness point above, more trees in a patch tend to make good bow staves, so finding wood is easier. hop hornbeam or hickory are the two woods i reach for first when i just want to make a bow that finishes, stays together, and is reasonably easy wood to work.
selfbows are similarly easier than backed bows or R/D type designs, so i would suggest the simple straightforward selfbow as the design class to work with. actual measurements will of course vary, but if you shoot for 60-65" at about 2" wide, or maybe ~72" at 1.5-1.75" wide you would be in decent shape with either hickory or hop hornbeam for the weight and draw that you want.
enjoy, you wont make just one. SOM
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What would make a good backing for an Oak board bow?
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My first bow on here is a 72" 64# hickory self bow, and it slams an arrow into the target like a hammer. My second one is a piece of oak I got from the local Menard's. Its got a hickory backing, and a mahogany riser, this one I'm only shooting for 45# at 28", and only about 68" in length. I used TB3, and some rubber inner tube for the glue up. That seemed to work fine for me.
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Just about anything,brownbag,cloth/linen,Ive used cotton bed sheet too,all worked fine.Use tight bond 2 or 3 and then think about painting,or what ever you wish.
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You guys rock! Thank you for all the information. Maybe someday I will be able to return the favor.
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My first bow on here is a 72" 64# hickory self bow, and it slams an arrow into the target like a hammer. My second one is a piece of oak I got from the local Menard's. Its got a hickory backing, and a mahogany riser, this one I'm only shooting for 45# at 28", and only about 68" in length. I used TB3, and some rubber inner tube for the glue up. That seemed to work fine for me.
You have pics?
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Hey Roofus, I bumped up the post of the pictures of that bow I made. It is in the main discussion area/bows/my first bow. I'll try to post the other one on this page, so you don't have to go looking for it. ;D
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Favorite bow woods and designs are as varied as are bowyers personalities...as it should be I guess.
If I had to choose one selfbow to go into the wilderness with, it would be about a 62"ntn osage. The shorter length is much more manueverable in the woods, especially if you were hunting out of a ground blind. It can still be a smooth hard shooter. It's the best wood I'm aware of from a weather standpoint under hunting conditions.
I also think that once a grain is chased, and chasing a grain does take some experience...once that is accomplished and the bow straightened if needed, the actual tillering of the bow is easier then white wood. Osage doesn't seem to be as sensitive to mistakes and easier to correct those when they occur, and it's not as sensitive to keeping it good and dry to reduce set during tillering as is the case with white wood. I'm not downing whitewood, I've made quite a few and been involved in many many more. They can make a great performing bow and have their pro's and con's for the beginner. One of the pro's is that they're typically straight, where osage very well may not be and might require some straightening.
Whichever I chose, I might would consider going shorter then 72" for a hunting bow...but that's just my opinion. ;)
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Greg Thanls for the input!! Decisions...........
Badbill. Nice bow!!!!!
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Thanks!
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My first was the Hickory self bow, this one is a piece of Red Oak from Home Depot. It has a Hickory backing strip, and a Mahogany handle. I used TB3 to glue it up, and an old rubber inner tube instead of clamps. I found the inner tube in the trash one day while out for a walk. I'm shooting for #45 at 28". I changed the design on my arrow rest a little bit, I call it my Fleur De Li's arrow rest. ;D I'm just beginning to tiller it, but couldn't wait to work on the handle. Ive taken everyones advice from here and rounded the handle a bit more than last time, gonna round it some more after I finish tillering it. Then I'll stain it light brown, and I'm going to put a vine pattern up the back and the belly. Ive started working on the maple one I have and after that I want to work on the Osage stave Ive been saving till I got a little more experience.