Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Judson on December 24, 2008, 10:01:58 pm
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It was back in 1994 when I first became intrigued with the Penobscot bow, which should in reality be called the Wabanaki Bow, as this basic bow consept was found through out the native American tribes which made up the Wabanaki confederacy. The people were the Penobscot, Maliseet (sp) Micmac, and the Wabanaki nations. These nations formed the confederacy so as to be in a point of enough strength to be able to negotiate with the European settlers from a position of strength. However the "Penobscot" bow dates much further back then that, as much as 1500 years or more.
There is a Penobscot legend about a Penobscot chief shooting a Viking chieften with one of these bows from several hundred yards. Weather the distance is exaggerated or not we can never know but the legend is intresting from the perspective of the bow.
I think the most fascinating aspect of this bow is it's development. There appear to be twelve variations to this bow and six distintive designs. The last design is from the Micmacs and was the only Penobscot built as "war" bow. The idea was that the European smooth bore musket had an effective range of under 200 yards and an accuracy range of only 50 yards or less. It was also slow to load. A settler with musket was at a sever disadvantage if he encountered a Micmac or two armed with a Penobscot bow, or for that matter any bow.
One of the most fascinating aspects of these bows is their progression and development. A people concerned merely with survival will use the simplest tool for the job. A complex tool shows that the people creating/ using this tool had leisure time to think and create such tools, the excellent book Penobscot Man seem to bear this out.
If his history is of interest to you please let me know, eventually it will lead into building the different variations of these bows.
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The only examples I've seen of the Wabanaki bow is in Jim Hamm's encyclopedia of bows, arrows and quivers. There seems to be only two variations shown: straight and recurved. I'd like to see illustrations of the other variations. ;D
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I do not have a host for posting pictures of the bows. However if you go to webshots and either use my name or do a search for Penobscot bows you can see them. You can find the pictures at Penobscot bows pictures and video on webshots. I have some better pictures of some of the other Penobscot bows that I built I will try to post them.
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one i made a few years ago...
dan
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/piggyback/IMG_0175.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/piggyback/IMG_0174.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/piggyback/IMG_0173.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/piggyback/IMG_0168.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/wakolbinger/piggyback/IMG_0169.jpg)
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I keep trying to post pictures of some of the various designs of the Penobscot bows. These pictures are ones I posted at web shots, I do not seem to be having much luck can you people help? (http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/Penobscot%20Bows/IMG_0129.jpg)
If you can get this picture it is of the Micmac war bow
If you can bring this up it is a picture of the upper nock carved as a wolfs head. (http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/Penobscot%20Bows/IMG_0133.jpg) I think I got it thanks for the tip about photobucket!!!
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Judson, here is the pic with the wolf's head.
(http://thumb8.webshots.net/t/63/563/1/72/34/2738172340045906888gXCJEh_th.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2738172340045906888gXCJEh)
For some reason, webshots does not allow the same type of link to a photo that photobucket allows. The option above is actually a thumbnail and a link to the actual photo. I just copied and pasted the URL that is shown for "post to a forum".
Hope that helps.
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thats awesome
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I remember that one ,Bowmo. HAND-SHOCKASAURUS REX.Course in all fairness the brace height was too low when I shot it.
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Thanks for helping out maby I should try photobucket.
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Here are the details of the gilding nock on the back bow on the Micmac bow. (http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/Penobscot%20Bows/IMG_0134.jpg)
This is the lower nock on the back bow. I was told that the Micmacs used Moose antler for the nocks but I did not have any so these are deer antler.(http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/Penobscot%20Bows/IMG_0135.jpg)
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those are beautiful. I love those bows. Even a compound company copied off it.
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That compound bow is the ugliest thing i have ecer seen :P
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now that i can see the pics,that is one sweet a*# bow.
have always thought that was a cool design,never seen anything even close to authentic just ones in kits on various websites.
just incredible work.
how does it shoot?
those nocs are cool as all get to.
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The Micmac bow is diferent to shoot, it is very smooth drawing, has virtually no hand shock and gains only 3 pounds per inch up to full draw and it's 65 pound draw weight. The bow seems to like 750 to 800 grain arrows best and these I make out of split shaft blanks of either maple or ash. Traditionally arrows for these bows were arms length I have been told but my arrows run 31".
The Penobscot bows are fun to take to a 3d shoot, you end up spending as much time explaining about the baws and the history as you do shooting. I imagin it is the same with that neat compound, I have heard about that compound but have never seen one, thanks for the picture, who made them? If all goes well here is a Picture of the Micmac war bow at nearly full draw. This spring I hope to get back to the 3d shoots.
(http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/Penobscot%20Bows/MicMacBow.jpg)
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Judson,
You have some fine examples of the Penobscot type here, and in the webshots albums. Nicely executed, and finished work in addition to being a fascinating design. The wolf head is a clever artistic touch.
Since you referred to the webshots album, I had a look at the bows there. .....I did not realize that there were that many variations on the design. Are all these versions (working recurve main bow, static recurve main bow, R/D main bow,recurve back bow, straight back bow, string secured at the base of the recurved back bow) copies of historical designs, or is this some experimentation of your own?
In particular, I noticed that you have a set of 4 diagrams of several versions of the bow, along with a chart of some draw curves. The resolution in webshots diagrams was not enough to read the text in the chart, but I see that one of the draw curves shows a dramatic let off at max draw. Is there a way I can see the full resolution versions of these drawings & charts? I am curious to know which version of the Penobscot bow results in the curve with let off, and if the performance of the bow is as good as the potential that the draw curve suggests.
Dave
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The only version of the Penobscot design that has the back bow strings go over the tips of the back and then attach to nocks near the grip is the Micmac War bow. All other Penobscot bows have the back bow strings on nocks at the tip of the back bow.
The graph is a comparison of the force draw curves for a static recurve Penobscot bow with the draw weight set at 60 and 65 pounds (Solid lines). The dotted lines show the curve for a 55 pound flat bow and the one that shows let off is a 60 pound Martin Warthog compound. The numbers at the right of the graph represent the # of squares (Stored energy) below each graph. Penobscot bow at 65 pounds = 166 at 60 pounds = 139 The 60 pound Warthog = 137 and the flat bow = 105.
When I did the graph I was rather suprised at the results. Bye the way Bowmo, that is one cool looking Penobscot bow and the tiller looks great!
One tip on tillering these beasts, I have it works best if you make the lower limb on the main bow 2" longer then the upper limb. If a limb is going to take a set it will be the lower limb. I will try to pst a few pictures of the different bows.
(http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/Penobscot%20Bows/3variationsofthebow.jpg)
The brush nocks on the static recurve are my addition, this bow is Osage and the brush nocks are Claro walnut. The next bow down is a slight recurve made of Hornbeam and is the bow that was on the cover of Primitive Archer Magazine. The bottom bow is a mild reflex deflex. The next picture is the bow I made for Kracow Archery befor it had any finish on it. This bow got a sinue bow strings as the origionals had but I am sure the sinue was not from the back of a moose as the origionals were. This style is the second oldest and the main bow is a pyramid design flat bow and the back bow is flat with no reflex. On the oldest style the main bow was a more conventional design sort of a modified Mear Heath design and the back bow wae longer(2/3) the length of the main bow. These bows also had the lightest back bow which bent parallel to the main bow. I will try to post a picture of one.
(http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/Penobscot%20Bows/PenobscotforKracowArchery.jpg)
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yup any one of those three will do just fine,should i PM my address to ya,or are you just going to get it from danam? >:D ;D
lol,just kiding.although i would love to own any of those bows.all are simply incredible
nice work.
tim
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Since you like them I will show you a few more! These bows are the earlist variation of the bows, the one on the left is the first style and if you notice the back bow limbs are parell to the main bow. This design is very smooth shooting but not performance up to the latter versions. The bow to the right is the second design and when unstrung strung the back bow has a bit of reflex, the back bow is also shorter. This is when the Penobscot bow really started to come to the fore front. I am also posting a picture of the early bow at full draw, notice how on this bow both the back bow and the main bow work togther, with even spacing between them all through the drar. ( please excuse my spelling but when I hit spell check at times I get "program not responding and I loose every thing)
(http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/PB2.jpg)
(http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/PB1full.jpg)
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once i feel i am up to the task at hand i have got to try and make myself one of them.
i still gotta say, even the earlier versions are still incredible looking and designed bows.
have you found any particular type of wood that works better than others for this design?
i may have to get in touch with you in the future when i feel i am ready to try one of these out for myself.
peace,
tim
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If any of you want help building one of these bows please feel free to contact me!!! I have talked several people through building and tillering these bows. Give me a call with your questions my # is 207-938-3595 it is the business phone at our custom gun shop and I am usually there from 10:00 till 5:00 but it also rings in the house.
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Does the wood need to pretty tension strong for these bows or more compression? Also what kinda width do you normally make these, outta like hickory? I'd like to get one of these roughed out.
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Compression strength is importand on these bows due to the way the limbs are loaded as the bow is drawn.
I use a pyramid design for the main bow with even tapper to the nocks the width of the limb depends on the wood used but it is usually around 2"
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If you people would like I will do a build along on these bows. Though I own a custom gun shop it is not uncommon to find a bow stave clamped a vice and not a stock blank. Most of the pictures will be from my work shop in the house like this one which shows my tillering board. This is mounted on a scale so I can get both the draw weight and still step back to check the tiller of the bow.
(http://thumb8.webshots.net/s/thumb3/7/92/62/70779262zNoiuk_th.jpg) (http://news.webshots.com/photo/1070779262045906888zNoiuk)
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Judson-Very nice work, very impressive!
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well duh
you know i do.
but your pics are gonna need to be bigger lol
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judson, a build-along would be awesome. i've got a candidate (main bow) that could use a back-bow. if i understood you correctly, the main bow is stressed mainly mid-limb to tips. so a (main)bow that's bending too much near the handle should be correctable thru a secondary bow, right?
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These are really distinctive bows. I've got your Micmac bow bookmarked for January Self Bow of the Month. The Penobscot design is so different and distinctive that it really needs to fit into a separate category Adam Bonney's Orcbow which won BOM for last September.
Enter another bow for next month, too, if you wish.
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With the Penobscot design the lower and mid section of the main bow is where most of the energy is stored. I have found that when tillering these bows it seems to work best if you tiller the main bow to the desired draw weight and length. Then hook up the back bow and retiller to drop the weight back to the target weight.
(http://i543.photobucket.com/albums/gg465/Judson127/tilleringbothbowstogther.jpg)
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By all means, do a build-along. I'd like to see the process. The Penobscot is a fascinating bow design.
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is hickory a good wood for this design?
if so i may have just the stave for both of them pieces,thanks to danam ;)
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thanks judson, but just for clarification: which section of the bow do you mean by "lower"? is it near the handle or near the tips?
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is hickory a good wood for this design?
if so i may have just the stave for both of them pieces,thanks to danam ;)
Well, I haven't made a penobscot till now, but Gerhard Kalden, an excellent german bowyer made two - and he used Hickory.
I met him once, and I think this man knows what he is doing.
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well the this stave has its purpose >:D
lets hope i done muck it up
ON WITH THE BUILD ALONG ;D
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When I said the lower limbs I am refering to the area near the grip of the bow. I have to scan in a few pictures before I start the build along. The bow being built in these pictures is a senior project. The guy doing most of the work is Seth Penny most of what I did was talk him through building this bow.
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If you want to read it I started a new topic on building Penobscot bows. Please bare with me on this and feel free to ask questions.