Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: Hillbilly on January 13, 2009, 04:29:28 pm
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OK, if anybody is interested, we'll give it a go. I would say we pick a point type, then just post your pics on the thread-maybe front, back, and side view? Post as many as you'd like. I think it'll be interesting to see what we can come up with, and we can learn about point types from other areas. Anybody got a suggestion for point type this month?
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How about early "Otoe Style". They're characterized by their short, thick profile and random, inconsistent shapes. I'm good at those. ;D
Mike
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How about a Sedalia? I just got done with this one, made from a think, ugly flake of Keokuk chert. It's 4 1/2 inches long.....
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Is this going to be competition, the winner could pick the point type for the next month. For the first month
start with something easy a basic side notch or something. Just a thought. When it gets nice here oh about July I
will probably join in, don't like chippin indoors :(
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all right,billy is the winner for january...so,whats next ;D ??? ;D...sorry,i had to have fun...billys,point is fine by me....does length matter...john
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How about early "Otoe Style". They're characterized by their short, thick profile and random, inconsistent shapes. I'm good at those.
Mike
Mike, that wouldn't be fair, I'm already an expert at that style. ;D
Billy, Sedalia sounds fine if you can dig us up some info on the style (region, usual materials, size, main defining characteristics etc.) If we could find a pic of an original, that would be good, too. Dana, if we do decide to have an informal poll vote, the winner picking the next month's style sounds like a good idea. I would say let's post a side-view pick, too. Any material or size/thickness would be fine, with props for correct materials/dimensions, etc.) I'd say maybe we should also say whether it was from a spall, slab, etc.
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This is going to be fun. I'm looking forward to the educational side of this. And could we also include a phonetic pronunciation of the names, regional basis, applications (atlatl, blade, bow) etc? The winner of the previous month would be responsible for "researching" their next month's point.
Mike
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hey hillbilly,i want to ask if the kind of stone makes a differance..i am kind of limited to obsidian...by the way my sedalia is done..i will have pics up in a few days my wife does that stuff.thanks john
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Why does there have ta be winners? That implies that their are losers. That means competition...............bob
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Your right, lets start with something simple like a side-notched point. I just happened to make that Sedalia point today before I realized ya'll had this post going, so it's not fair to include that one. Trust me, I can make some ugly, thick and crude points with the best of them! Those are the ones that usually end up on my arrows. We could start the competition with who can make the ugliest point... that'd be fun!
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K. Im in and interested.
Really like the educational side of this. dont know nothin' about any styles a'tall.
how many months did you say I had to make each point? ;D
How about a bolen for the first?
Check out this site:
http://www.lithicsnet.com/bolen.htm
Location: Primarily Florida, Southern Georgia and Southern Alabama
Associated Dates: 10,000 - 9000 B.P. - Early Archaic
Morphology: Side Notched / Corner Notched
(http://www.lithicsnet.com/bolenbevel115.JPG)
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This sounds like to much fun!!
I cant wait for this thing to kick off!
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learning something already. Had to go look up the sedalia.
sounds like the smallest they have found is 3" long. and largest is almost 8".
I think we should start a bit easier and shorter.
I am open to suggestions tho.
N2
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Would love to join ya all but its a wee bit cold outside for knappin, somewhere around -20 :'(
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Dana, I just made my first neck knife from obsidian..couldnt get one done in warm weather but it really seemed to work better cold...Dr. says the frostbite will get better.... ;D....Dont know much bout knappin but im in, seems like a great way to learn more till I run out of rock anyway....Brian
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You bleed less in those temps. ::) ::) ::)
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You bleed less in those temps. ::) ::) ::)
Yup right up until ya thaw out then leaks spring everywhere :P
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It's cold here, too, but a warmer day here and there. OK, how does everybody feel about trying a Bolen Bevel? I like the type, but haven't tried to make but a couple in the past. They're early Archaic, usually found in FL, AL, and GA. Corner-to side notched, with the notches often expanding or squarish with sharp barbs. The edges are usually beveled on opposite sides, and are generally concave (incurvate.) Size ranges from 1 1/2" to over 5". Typical materials are Coastal Plains chert or agatized coral. Here are a few more pics of originals for inspiration:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The edges are usually beveled on opposite sides, and are generally concave (incurvate.)
only one question. does beveled on opposite sides...
does that mean that looking at the same face of the blade that long flakes are taken off one edge only with short flakes on the same face opposite edge?
that is what I think I am seeing in the pic.
thanks
wade
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Beveling is a typical sharpening strategy, probably used on hafted points. A beveled cross-section would be where one edge was pressure flaked from the top only, then the point turned over and the other edge pressure flaked the same way, leaving a cross-section like this:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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how many months did you say I had to make each point? ;D
:D *dang...that's funny N2!* :D
I like the Otoe point, but I guess the Bolen is OK too (I think I can actually make one of those).
Sounds like fun.
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Dang Hillbilly, thats how mine already look..cant never get the center line down the center :D....Brian
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Haven't tried one of those, sounds like a challange.Whats the time frame?
Bone pile
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man, i got some coral and Georgia c.p. cooking now. so i will give it a shot as well. we are sticking with this point right? ;D
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I'm game.
Mike
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so Beveling is the point to be made?
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Sounds like nobody has a problem with the Bolen Bevel as the type to make? Post 'em up any time this month, or maybe a bit into February as it's already halfway through January. I guess just post pics on this thread. Both sides and side view. Come on, let's get some participation. I know we have a bunch of knappers on here, I wanna see some pics. :)
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Does the type of rock matter?
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What was the purpose of the differently angled bevels Steve?
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@ J. Dempler: Any kind of rock or material is fine. Ideally, they would be made from the correct material, but with different regional styles there's no way for everyone to have access to rock from all parts of the country.
@ Dana: Dana, I think beveling is just an easy, efficient way to sharpen tools, plus, it doesn't use up as much material with each resharpening as it would to flake each edge from both sides. A lot of the Early/mid Archaic points show beveling: Daltons, Thebes, Lost Lake, Bolen, Dovetails, etc.
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Makes sense steve, thanks eh
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I'll give it a shot. It may be a bird point by the time I finish, but I will make one.
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Great Idea Steve,
I'll try to luck one up.
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ok heres mine, i had a problem with one notch. i couald'nt get it squared in because of a crystal pocket in the notch. you can see how its differnt than the other. this is some high grade c.p. from the east side g(http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l338/knap_123/bolen026.jpg)a. close to the savannah river given to me by willjo on georgia outdoor news forum. it might look clunky but its sharp with the serrations! i think i'll make a little knife out of it.
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(http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l338/knap_123/bolen027.jpg)
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(http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l338/knap_123/bolen029.jpg)
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Clunky?!!! Man that is beautiful!
Wayne
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That's a nice'un, looks good to me. Those crystal pockets on the CP can be rough to work around, but looks like you did a good job getting through them and ended up with a nice point.
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thanks, you can actually see the pocket in the last pic if you look inside the notch area. looks like a white spot but its more like a geo. and this thing glows outside in the sun. i love cp!
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Great point but whats CP, I'm a bit slooowwww :)
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CP=Coastal Plains chert.
I'm gonna have to sit this one out...Finally getting my shoulder fixed (they claim) in a few days and I have too much stuff I gotta do before I am limited to only one arm (versus 1 & 1/3...). I will be watching from the sidelines and typing with one hand.
Jim
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I will do this. My points are usually beveled any way ;D
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CP=Coastal Plains chert.
I'm gonna have to sit this one out...Finally getting my shoulder fixed (they claim) in a few days and I have too much stuff I gotta do before I am limited to only one arm (versus 1 & 1/3...). I will be watching from the sidelines and typing with one hand.
Jim
Good luck Jim, I'm in the same boat going to see a surgeon next week, going to see if he can rebuild my shoulder :-\
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Nice point there. I hope to be able to do a little knapp'n this morning.
Jim, Dana: Good luck on the shoulders. Keep us posted on your recovery.
Mike
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Hey Knap, I've been looking at some of the pictures of the Bolens on the first page of this post, and if you're not happy with the symmetry of your notches, widen the one on the side with the crystal pocket. The originals seem to have wide notches and I think you can still even them out.
I got to do a little knapp'n this morning. Made a nice hunting point out of a flake from some of Cowboy's Texas rock and started on my entry for the Bolen out of some Kay County from around Ponca City. Didn't get to finish it but so far so good.
Mike
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OK, I knocked a couple out during the week and took pictures today.
The first one I did with a copper pressure flaker.
The next one I did with only primitive tools.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/011.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/012.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/014.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/015.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/010.jpg)
They are both made from some kind of heat treated chert.
It's really easy stuff to work with (I got several large flakes as a gift a year ago).
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/023.jpg)
I did the notches with a stone pressure flaker with a shaped piece of juniper for support.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/018.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/020.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/024.jpg)
They ended up as a couple small knives for the kids (when I'm watching, of course) ;D.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/01-17-09/028.jpg)
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knapp that is a sweet point
wish i could do that stuff
jackcrafty nice points
that white one looks like the one in the artical i read on the home page,very cool
i am trying to gather some tools etc to give it a whack
hope to someday be able to do the things you guys do.
good luck with the shoulders jim and dana
i had decompression on my left and decompression and something else dont remeber what they called it on my right,still have slightly tore cuff in the right but the surgeon said where its torn they generaly dont get good results so just keep and eye on it,
dana if ya can see the one i went to you should,hes one of the best in the country. works in the midwest mostly.
works on the twins and u of m teams and nd teams etc etc.
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Patrick, good looking points, looks like you're getting the hang of it. Jim, just hang in there, hope you can get straightened out soon.
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Well I finally got some time to knapp and after a couple failed attempts I think I got one.Now I can't get my camera to get a clear shot....Oh well maybe I'll try again with more success
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk33/Bonepile/bolsun.jpg)
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk33/Bonepile/bol.jpg)
Bone pile
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very cool 8) :o
love the colors in the sunlight
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Well, I didn't think I would have time to do this, but I got to piddlin' around today. So here is my e-notch Bolen bevel out of Jasper.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Had a couple of more pictures but can't get them to load. Geez They did now. ???
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Good one there Mullet ,what kind of jasper is that?Looks good with that E notch
Bone pile
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Nice points by everyone. I especially like that jasper Eddie and that rock you used Bone pile.
Here's my feeble attempt. It's made from an old bleach jug bottom. Not e-notched, but by the time I finished it...well sharpened. It's the first serrated edge point for me.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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very nice, i like the brown . how many nicks you get working that piece? its those little sliveres that get me.
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I used to leak like a sifter, but not in a good while. I don't wear gloves, so I guess I'm pretty lucky.
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Man those are nice. You guys are good.
Wayne
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good lookin points guys.
Shanon i really like the bevel on yours.
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Nice looking points,looks like yall are having some fun over here. :) Shanon that looks deadly. :)
Pappy
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Nice bevel on that glass,looks good
Roger
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Good looking points, everybody. Shannon, how the hell did you get so good so quick?
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Shannon, great looking point. The Jasper is some B Melton sent me from Washington. Nice color in that coral Roger.
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i made two ;D
Did not like the plane notches on the 1st one so i E-notched the 2nd one.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Those are some great looking points guys! I've been sleeping on the job - just stumbled into this thread ::). May have to get my hands busy on a Bolen soon..
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Nice knapping guys, I'm itching to get back at it.
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leapingbear, nice point! the last 2 has a camo look it self. and the oppisite is complently different. what stone is that, fort payne? texas?
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naw its some ruff grade horse creek.. without oll the purdy colors.
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I am glad to see this thread. would someone post the work in progress also. Help the newbie out some. Those are all very nice points and you guys should keep those and all the other types you decide to make and make a nice display. Beautiful work.
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Im with you Dana, to much snow for me to knapp at the moment 10 inches on the ground.
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Jesse, Is it there yet?
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not yet.. i expect it this week sometime.. the weather has cleard up and were getting mail agian.
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Here is my pitiful attempt for this month's point type. At least it resembles an arrowhead. ;D Nice points everybody.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Thats not bad Dingleberry. just square up your notches some and ya got one.
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Nothin'wrong with that point,I think they all look good
Bone pile
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Well I was headed toward a bolen with this one.
Used some of that FL chert I picked up over the holiday at the golf course.
this rock is pretty knarly. full of inclusions and ash pockets. pretty hard knapping but good learning I guess.
Hope the other rock I brought back is a bit cleaner and less grainy.
this one started out as a square block prob 3" thick, 5 wide, and maybe 7-8 long...
had to knock a ton off it to get most of the junk out.
then just as I had cleared out most of the junk and was starting to feel good about it....... snapped it while trying to knock a big flake off the base....
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/bolen001.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/bolen002.jpg)
oh well. may try again later tonight.
N2
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Doesn't that just make your day? ;D I usually start mine out that way, and get it over with. ;) Sort of the like the old saying, of , Eat a live toad, the first thing in the morning, and then that will be the worst thing you have to look forward to the rest of the day. ;D
Wayne
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Whew Wade!.That is some tough stuff. That's Brooksville Chert. It's dumped in about every drain gully and bridge sideing in the state. Most of the artifacts I've found made out of it were heat treated. Those inclusions are not ash , but fossils and lime deposits. When you can find it in a transluscent coca cola color it is great.
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Come on guys submit your points. only a few days left in this month.
I think we should choose a day to start a new post in poll form and transfer off the photos.. sorta like botm.
Any thoughts guys?
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I'll try to get something made this weekend-been down to nearly zero several nights lately, too durn cold to knap.
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well i gotta say, i am impressed with all of them :o,very cool 8)
you all have inspired me so much that i am in the process of getting some basic tools etc together so i can give this a whack .
just hope that someday i can make a point good enough to post a pic of and have people be able to tell what it is supposed to be
everyone of you have talent.cant wait to see what ya all do next month.
seeing as to how my b-day is next month you can send all of the points to me as a gift ;D ;) lol
keep em coming, i love looking at them
peace,
tim
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Sailordad, it is a hard skill to learn. allot of variables, but with some good guidance and a little motovation your be knocking them out in no time.. take Shanon for example.. freekin prodigy boy lol.
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if it wasnt so dang cold today,-18* right now and its nearly 10 am,i would go to the river adn look for rocks.
but i hate the cold ;D
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Here's another one. The inclusions and holes in this rock was a booger.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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That looks purty decent Eddie. I finally got time to do a little K-nappin and now my camera won't work. Got a few bopped out but will probably be Feb before I can show em. I'll join in on next months fun anyway..
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thanks Paul, well you got a jump on the rest of us.
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I think next month we should do dovetails or tri notch.
Thats a cool point eddie
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Nice'un, Eddie. Well, here's mine. This one is made from a colorful spall of Coastal Plains chert, Savannah River variety. It's a little over 3" long. I had a fit with this one, the same stuff that makes this rock purty makes it hard to chip, inclusions out the wazoo and a couple crystal pockets I had to work through. Forgot to take a side pic, I'll try to get one tomorrow. It is a little thick from working around the inclusions, plus the spall was narrow, thick and blocky.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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thats just purty!
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dang... thats a nice-un
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Nice work Eddie and Steve. Eddie, I may have missed it but is that corral? Steve, is there going to be a cut off time and voting?
I've got a point roughed out of Kay County, but I've been too busy to finish it up. I might get a chance later on this evening. The weather's going to suck, (freezing rain and sleet,......oooooo I hate ice).
Mike
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Very nice Steve. Where did you get that coastal plains?
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That is purty Steve :) - the rock and the point. I thought we were going to do simple types at first, that beveling ain't so easy if you've never tried it before - took me three attempts to get a decent edge.
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Mike, it's heat treaded Chert.
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Oooohhh! I like that one Steve! :o
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That's real nice Steve. Unusual looking piece of Coastal Plains.
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Thanks, fellers. Jonathan, I got it from a guy at the NC knap-in last fall. I'd like to have some more of it.
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Looking good, Steve. I may be able to get you in touch with the guy you got it from. I also got some from him but it was vuggy and had inclusions. When you get a nice piece, it is real nice though.
Wish I could participate in this one...my challenge this month is typing one handed...
Jim
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Jim, most of the stuff I got was vuggy and inclusive-y, too. but the stuff between the vugs and inclusions is great. Hope you get back to knapping soon. If you have Joe's contact info, shoot me an email.
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Nice one Steve.That is sweet. :)
Pappy
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Good looking points Eddie and Steve! You'un's got talent! ;D
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i tryed to do somet(http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l338/knap_123/003.jpg)hing today. made from a piece of coeal
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That looks great John! Man that's some purty coral :). OK, here's my attempt's at bolen's - finally got my camera workin. The e-notched one had the best bevel.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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those are killers!
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Nice one, Knap. And Paul, those are sure killers-great job, very authentic looking. 8) That one in the bottom pic looks like Flint River Coastal Plains rock.
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Great looking points, John and Paul. It seems like now when I get home from work, I can't stop from making Bolens.
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Thanks fellers. Nope Steve, that's some more perd stuff. but it does have a nice two tone thing going on, kinda rare with this stuff :).
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a tri -fecta cowboy,I really like those points.I think everybody stepped up to the plate on this one.I never thought about making more than one....why not.So anyway who starts the next one?Febuary 1st is lookin'close.
Bone pile
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How about a Hernando, or Kirk Serrated?
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How bout a Cumberland fluted..at least 6" long ;D ;D
Great work Paul. I knew you had it in you. ;)
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Shannon, you may have to do that one yourself ;D
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thanks Shannon, Roger. Eddie: a hernando or kirk either one would be great for all ages and skill levels. I'm thinking that fluted Cumberland may be good for this time next year after we all practice for awhile ;D. Hillsborough's are very nice and neat - maybe for March?
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Hillsboroughs are the money artifacts in Florida. They are usually thinner, and shorter than Newnans or Marions. The natives that made them were highly skilled. Most of the $6 and 7 thousand ones are paper thin, all percussion flaked and heat treated, high grade Coral. Out of my league. When I see Rick, I will take some pictures of his artifacts and Claudes points and we can play Billy's game of "guess the fraud".
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nice points paul.
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Heres my attempt at the challenge.
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/strongbow88/100_1553.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/strongbow88/100_1554.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/strongbow88/100_1551.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm27/strongbow88/100_1550.jpg
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I didn't realize they were so thin Eddie - may have to try a few to see how thin I can go ::).
thanks Jesse. That looks a lot better than just an attempt Strongbow - good lookin point and that's some wild lookin rock.
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Paul, I was waiting to see some of your work. ;D
You NAILED those points...they look awesome!
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wow Paul, those are great ! perfect cross sections and very nice notches... you got my vote on this one... Hawk a/ho
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Strongbow, that is a great looking Bolen, I've found some that look just like it. What kind of rock is that? Paul, I'll try to get into Rick's collection this weekend and post some pictures of real, quality, Hernando's and Hillsborough's. I've never seen a real Hernando over 4", after that they start looking like Tallahassee'. Heck, Rick has some $3000 Hillsborough's that are 4" long.
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I dont know what kind of rock it is a guy my mother in law works with gave me a hand full of flakes he found and a couple broken point and one flake was large enough to make a point out of. probably some kind of chert.I will post pics of the other stuff if you want.
thanks
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thank ya Patrick and Mike :). That would be cool Eddie - I'd like to see em..
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Paul: Those are some gem quality points. Really like seeing your work! Watcher
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Sweet points John and Paul.
Paul you won the challenge.....again. ;D
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Well, I got no where on January's point. I guess I'll try on February's challenge. Thirty days to make a point......geeeeezzzz I'm slow. Great job guys.
Mike
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Thanks fellers :). I guess theirs a fine line between a challenge and competition, but if this was up for voting I'd have to go with hillbilly's as the purtiest. I love a good challenge, just getting out of bed is a pretty good one for me here lately :D.