Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: Hillbilly on March 02, 2009, 12:07:36 pm
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I'll post a couple pics to get y'all started. Kirk serrated is an Early Archaic type mostly found in the Southeast. It is the final phase of the Kirk complex, coming after the Kirk corner-notched and Kirk stemmed, dated to about 6,000-6,700 BC. Average size is around 2 1/2" to 3 1/2 " in length, with some considerably larger ones found. Typical materials are rhyolite, Coastal Plains chert, Fort Payne chert, occasionally coral, other cherts. Usually longer than wide (daggerlike), the stem is usually almost square, shoulders are typically straight, edges straight to incurvate with deep serrations, occasionally beveled from resharpening. Base usually thinned well and unground.
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Is One of those yours Hillbilly?
Gonna get to the shop and see what I can do tonight.
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Tim, those are all originals that I found pics of. They don't have enough hinges and steps to be mine. ;D
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Well here is my first attempt. 3.25". Looks like an easy point to make......I had a few problems. Needs to be more triangular I think?
Chouteau material (some call it Jeff city chert) from a creek near my house.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Timotoad/general/002-1.jpg)
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Timo, that point is awesome... Hawk
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Good lookin' point there.The only things in the Creek by my house are alligators,it's actully called Alligator Creek.Anyhow nice job knappin'
Bone pile
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That'll gitter kicked off - thanks Steve. That's some fine knappin Timo - good lookin point!
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Great looking point Timo! U guy's got a great thing goin' with this monthly challenge. Cool way to learn more about knapping and the historical background of the points. :)
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Well said Greg! I follow along with references and I'm amazed at how well these folks can re-create these points.
Tracy
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Stop the competition! Timo wins by a mile!!
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Well, I reckon it's time to throw a ....trout....into the punchbowl....
I just couldn't resist! We find these all the time in the Blue Ridge. Old stuff.
The glass was just for kicks-I'm serious about the other'n.
PD
(http://www.fototime.com/4510BF98A66A631/standard.jpg)
(http://www.fototime.com/B81E6F30BF352AF/standard.jpg)
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Very nice! I've said it before...you guys are talented! ;)
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Hmmmmm, can I get one done in 28 days? :-\ Don't know, but I'd like to think I can. We'll see.
I'll have to view the pics when I get home. Nothing but red "x's" in blocks. But I'll say it anyway, Good Job! ;D
Mike
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Nice points, fellers. Tim, that one looks like it just came out of the ground.
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Great points. Yall have set the bar high.
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PD, you never disappoint. Great work!!!!
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Xin...whoa buddy,:) Just wait till these other guys start posting what they make....real eye candy. Like that point by Pete,very nice Pete! Looks like some very slick stuff. Love the looks of that glass also, but I start bleeding every time I look at the stuff! :)
Hillbilly, That type of rock has that effect.Every point I make from it looks old.Kinda brittle though, takes good platforms.
I'll try another when I get some more time.Got welding to do tonight,and this and that....Well you know? :)
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Ifin it warms up I will give this one a try :(
Nice points guys
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Nice one Pete! So the one made of stone, you found? What kind of welding do you do Timo?
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Well here's my first attempt,The material is some costal plains out of that landfill in Alabama.A fellow knapper from that area was real kind to me at the Sopchoppy knapp-in and gave me a few pieces.
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk33/Bonepile/tubs073.jpg)
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk33/Bonepile/tubs070.jpg)
I have some coral in the furnace I'll give this type another try next week.
so lets see yours I showed you mine!
Roger
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Perty much what ever I need fixed.Just for myself of course.I ain't good enough to hire out.:) I had a ladder that had a rung broke,It was aluminum of coarse.I ain't never tried that, so I figured what the hey? Had some alum rod and tried it with my stick...........That will sure make ya scratch your head! :)
so far it's holding.
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Nice looking piece there bonepile. Luv the rock. Serrations look well done.
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Wow, only four days into the month and look at what's been produced so far! I would need to know now what's the point gonna be for March 2010 to get it done by then ;D
Tracy
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Dang, I'm getting left behind. Real good looking points everybody.
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Great start! I renotched my flint one and put up a new photo.
Paul, that crude thing I made is from a scrap of F.R. I got in a bargain bucket from TwoBear at Flint Ridge. The clear stuff, was period amethyst mason jar, 1858.
Keep 'em coming!
PD
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Pete that looks great! Have you noticed that getting the serrations right,isn't as easy and one might think? Were the serrations on these type points run on both sides,or just one side? Kinda like a beveled point?
I made another one tonight before church.
Second attempt:Raw Texas.The pic is of both sides. Still haveing trouble getting both sides the way I want them.... Learning lots though.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Timotoad/general/011.jpg)
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Killer!
I think the Kirks did get beveled over time. I actually have a copy of Joffre Coe's study here. My mother copied and bound it for me in the 1980's. He named the type.
Cool point!
PD
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Nice points guys, hoping to get a chance to try this weekend :)
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Some good looking points fellas! I hear ya on the aluminum Timo :D. I picked up some stuff on a job in Austin yesterday - going to give it a whirl today or over the weekend.
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Great looking work, fellers. Pete, I got me an original first edition of Coe's study that I got from Hardawaypoints-great stuff, I look through it at least once a week. Now I don't keep the local library's copy perpetually checked out. :)
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This is my first try at knapping since my shoulder got cut on. I'm kind of rusty & it took longer than normal. but its a start. Nice to be knocking flakes off rock again, even if it hurts some...I just couldn't stand waiting anymore sitting on the sidelines watching everybody else post their fine work.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a257/hardawaypoints/Knapped%20points/Open013.jpg)
Jim
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Don't look rusty to me at all.. glad you are back to the rock bustin.. great looking point.. Hawk
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Jim, that looks good. Hornstone? Glad to see you back at it-just don't get too froggy and mess that shoulder back up.
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Nice point,I was gonna say hornstone, but Hillbilly beat me toit.
So what was worse on the shoulder,pressure or percusion?
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Yep, it is hornstone, not real high silica content, but it works o.k..Sorry, I should have posted material type too (you can tell I'm out of practice). That point looks better in the picture than in the hand, but it is the first time I've chipped since before Thanksgiving.
Jim
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Pressure work is a killer on the shoulder & I'm paying the price for bearing down with it earlier today. They had to remove tendons from the bone, then grind off where some of the tendons had calcified (making the bone like a hacksaw blade with bigger teeth) the re-attach the muscles to bone. Everytime the muscle & nerves would rub against that rough part before, it would short out the nerves & I would lose sensation to my forearm and the middle, ring, and pinky finger to my left hand (about 95% of the time). Now, I have feeling in all my fingers for the first time in almost 2 years. It hurts like a son of a gun where the muscles were re-attached to the bone and where the went through the skin. But it's a whole lot better to feel all ten fingers again! Barring other complications, I may be able to draw a bow again in about 5 months. *fingers crossed*
Jim
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Good luck with your recover Jim.
Ifin percussion doesn't bother ya, then it might be a good time to get ya alot of preforms made up?
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Dang...been almost a week and no new points to look at? Whats up? Everyone have tendenidus?:)
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Timo, I just got home Friday and it's Turkey Season. I've got priorities. ::) But go to the top of page 7, Serrations, I did find a real one, does that count?
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Man that point has some very nice serrations! I'll try to look through my points and see what I have.(not sure why I haven't did that yet) ???
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Well finally got my stuff together and joined this challenge.
I've been too busy building bows and other stuff and havn't knapped out a point in months.
But here is my version. not the prettiest but think it fits the kirk type. Material may not though. it was made with some NY rock I picked up at the NC primitive skills gathering. cant remember exactly what it was though. tough stuff. Hillbilly will remember the name.
I found the serrations the hardest part I think. other than at the base there was a seam in the rock that kept giving me fits.
later
N2
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/kirk001.jpg)
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/kirk002.jpg)
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that will put one down.
Cool point.
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Looks like a perty good example to me! Nice point! I see that lil fault line. Ain't it amazing how something so small can give one such big trouble?
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/coyotebow/knapping/005.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/coyotebow/knapping/004.jpg)
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wow nice point jamie. nicely thinned.
N2
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Nice ones. Wade, I think that material was Esopus chert/silicified shale.
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dang, Jamie, gonna have to call you tater chip! Nice.
I looked through my artifacts tonight and this is the only one I found that I think is a kirk. Very well made.Wish the the rest of it was there. Not sure what kind of rock it is, but I call it sugar quartz.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v86/Timotoad/general/005-1.jpg)
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MAN, there is some talent posting on this board. great job done by all
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No fair, Jamie is a real caveman.. ;D great point.. Hawk
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;D
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well here is my best attempt at this,forgive me as i am quite new yet ;D
its only about an inch long,not real sure of what the rock is either.
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8895/1000276m.jpg)
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Sailor, not bad for a novice. Keep working at it.Takes a while to learn. And even after you think you have it down,you'll have blunders. I broke everything I tried yesterday.
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wade it is esopus. nice strong stuff
lot better than a lot of the stuff i started on sailor. if the edges are sharp and its thin enough to mount its a point
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Good one ,looks serrated to me.I think your doin' just fine keep chippin' away
Bone pile
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I was hoping to get some knapping done over the weekend and get a Kirk posted, but it rained like a bovine urinating on a level geological formation all weekend. Good time to hit the shop and work on some bows, though.
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It's only the second week of the southern zone Turkey Season. Might sit this chipping month out.
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Good one. I haven't had time to hit anything either. No bovine's urinating on formation's but still busy on other things :D.
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Here's my attempt,Alibates flint percussion then pressure took 3 rocks to get one point ::)
Its by no means great but I wouldn't want it lodged in me :o
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i agree with ya Dana,i wouldnt want it stuck in ya either.looks like it could make ya bleed a bit.
i like the point,better than my attempt.
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Very nice Dana! Looks very sharp.
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Well s%$t Danna , i reckon that one would do the job, you have improved quiet a bit sense last years classic. Nice point!
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wow dude thats fantastic
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Dana: Dats a hellofa mean looken weapon yer got der! Joe
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Purty point Dana! I love the looks of that Alibates.
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Thanks guys it has hinges and steps in it but I bet the deer wouldn't care eh :D
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That Alibates is some pretty rock. Nice point. It ought to work nicely.
Jim
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Nice points guys!
Now we have to make things challenging, since everyone is getting so good! I suggest Folsom points with a twist!!!!!
You must make the flutes by bipolor flaking. No Jigs, allowed!!!! All by hand and no mechanical tools used. You gotta whack that puppy!
David T
PS: I will be participating!!!! >:D
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What the hey...I need some more debutauge. :)
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too complicated for this newbie ;D
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I thought splicing a bow was hard ;D Nice points
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Is this a Kirk type point? It is an artifact. I found it in the garden of a friend that lived in Danialsville GA. John had lived in his home for at least 5 years when I found this point. He had planted his garden every year in the same place plus plowed up a 2ac field each year and planted it fot wildlife. John had never found any other points or chips or pottery chards. I walked out in the garden with John, looked down and there it sat. When you look at it, point on, you can see where it was worked on one side, flipped over and worked on the other. It has a spiral effect to the front 1/3 of the point.
Here is what I found....
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Heck Pat I don't know if its a Kirk or not but its a beauty :)
Ok guys April is just around da corner so whats the next challenge? A knife perhaps? Or maybe a Yooper War Point ;D
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See my post above Dana. Its a challenge!!! ;D
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how bout an axe head. The challenge would be that you had to build a bow with it!
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Don't matter to me. Bring it on.
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Here be my point.....argggh!
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Looks good Jonathan :)
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Dang you guys are making some really wicked looking points.. great job.. Hawk
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Nice one, Jonathan. I finally got one knocked out. It's made from the old indestructable rhyolite like most of the original ones in this area. It's about 3" long. Stone, wood, and antler percussion, mostly copper pressure. That inclusion of brown yuck in the middle was fun to flake through. Sharp as a brier, I wouldn't want it in me.
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Nice job dingle! Nova?
Hillbilly, after seeing that bow you made,I now know what took you so long to whack out a point! you didn't dissapoint! Nice point.
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Nice one's guys! I've just been too busy to join in this month.
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Great point Steve, so whats April's challenge?
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How about a Dalton?
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How about a Dalton?
Why not but whats a Dalton ???
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Dalton is one of my favorite point types-Midwest through Southeast, late-Paleo.
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Like this? Not a great picture. Whats the size and material on these anyway?
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Dana, they range from a couple inches long to over a foot. Some are heavily serrated, some not. Some are lightly fluted, some aren't.Most classic Midwestern ones are made from Burlington, Pitkin, or other cherts. The Southeastern variants (Hardaway-Dalton, Greenbrier-Dalton, etc. ) were made from rhyolite, Coastal Plains Chert, even from quartzite. Here's some good examples from the Lithic Casting Labs site.
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I don't have any of those types of rock but I'm willing to try with obsidian, alibates or the mighty thunderchert :)
This monthly challenge is turning into a educational experience :)
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i agree with ya dana,same with the rock too
i'll try to make the one in the middle pic,but i wills have to use the rock on hand :-\
but i am willing to learn another new one
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wow steve thats awesome. i gotta get up north and get some cryalot
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Dalton is fine with me,Probly one of my favs....I just ain't very good at makin them...What type?
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Any type would be fine. What does everybody else think?
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Any type sounds good to me. Gotta a lil knapping demo to go to this sat. Me and a buddy are gonna show some youth turkey hunters the art of knappin.(jakes program) Give me a good chance to whack one out.
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Great point Steve. Did you throw out your back swingin that mini tree billet? ;D Isn't that Rhyolite really hard to pressure flake too? You da man, I can't fool with that stuff.
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So dalton it is ,I have some burlington in the pile.Hope to heat it this weekend.I've enjoyed these challenges as it makes me try styles i wouldn't normally do.
bone pile
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I'm glad you guys are keeping this thing alive! I'm going to try my darndest to get a dalton made for this next challenge - surely I can find the time.
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Nice Kirk, Hillbilly! That looks as authentic as they get.
Those Daltons are one of my favorites, goody.
Jim