Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Cave Men only "Oooga Booga" => Topic started by: sailordad on July 05, 2009, 11:28:09 am
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well like most folk on here i got into all this primitive by wanting to make my own bow.
well that took me int other diricetions too.i learned how to make cordage,arrows and even learned how to knapp(kinda)
well i feel the next step in my primitive journey is to learn to make fire.
i know there are alot of folks on here that are capable of doing this,so i figure its time i learn too.
i also figured this would be the best place on the net to get the info from.
so if any one could tell me what i need to gather,natural stuff from my area of the country of course.
i live in central mn.we have lots of cattails all over the place,there are even some with last years fluff yet.
i know that can be used,i just aint sure what i need for drill and hearth and then how to use it all together.
any help is greatly appreciated ;D
peace,
tim
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Tim, watch this youtube video, Ray Mears does a great job on how to use the bow drill method.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94XYwGToVwY&feature=PlayList&p=49BF8265770BD4A4&index=7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94XYwGToVwY&feature=PlayList&p=49BF8265770BD4A4&index=7)
There are more primitive/traditional methods for fire making then just the bow/hand drill methods. l also use flint and steel and the fire piston which are also traditional. This past winter l learned how to make fire from ice as well. l say i you want to learn about the primitive/traditional ways is to go buy a book on this subject. Ray Mears and Tom Brown both have excellent books about survival/primitive methods. But if you wanna learn the bow/hand drill use willow or some other soft woods and do the some for your hearth. There are many different materials to use, just find what works for you.
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definetly start with the bow drill. if willow is available its good. the root is better than the tree. you can usually find the roots along the river banks or when one tips over. the poplar family works as well. trees like aspen , basswood. white cedar works as well as the sap wood from red cedar. i prefer the red cedar over the white . cattail down will only allow the coal to get bigger it wont ignite. it works great in combination with phragmites heads which most of the time are growing nearby. cedar bark is the favorite for most . many inner barks of downed trees work as tinder as well. again basswood is the king here. once you've figured it out keep practicing on other tougher woods. try oak, ash, maple. its tough but it can be done
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I know this is somewhat late,however i just joined and saw that you did not get a big response to your post. I have pursued fire making methods for sometime and can offer what i know including how to make fire pistons.
The bow drill is the last resort method and the hardest to learn. I say this because it is difficult to achieve unless you have a set made and with you when you want to use it. The set i made and use made from cedar. The spindle is cedar heart wood ,which is hard, and the board,3/4"thick, is made from cedar sap wood, which is soft. Just get a section of cedar and split it out. most of the spindles should be approx 3/4"thick . If you make them too skinny you have just made a primitive drill :). I have use bone and stone hand pieces, but all you need is something hard with a divot in it to hold the spindle. I don't carry a bow with my kit ,I make it when needed in the field as any green stick will do. I do carry the cordage though, 550 para cord. I know its not primitive so if you want to swap it out feel free. Lastly you will need very dry tinder.
Once you have all of those components you will need to burn in your board and spindles. When making the bow dont make it tight. Use your hand to tighten up the bow so you don't break your cordage when working the bow back and forth.
If you want the info on how to make reliable fire pistons just let me know as I have it already written out and saved. I have posted it for others several times so np.
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I've been working on primitive fire making since I as a kid unsuccessfuly so far but my latest trial has been dead dry pine I split hearth and spindle out of same piece of wood . I'm able to get an ember now .which is a big accomplishment for me. Hopefully I'll have fire one day
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This is an old thread, but just to share for any passerbys. This is what helped me. Hope it helps you.
I remember the first time i made fire with the bow drill in my drive way. Took me about 4 or 5 months to figure out what i was doing wrong.
The easiest wood to find and use for the drill and hearth is willow. Make sure its dead and dry(it snaps easily). I've used poplar and alder and these work but you have to drill longer and harder.
Tips I wish someone had told me:
Start easy and slow with less pressure until it starts to smoke a good bit. Then give it all you got drilling as fast as you can and as hard as you can while still being able to keep your form. Don't stop drilling until you are worn out. This is what ensures me a good coal. With willow, though, its usually much easier and you don't really have to kill yourself to do it. But with poplar and alder, this is what i had to do.
Don't drill at an angle, Drill straight down! This was my biggest problem when i started. I would make a depression and cut the notch, then i wouldn't even know the drill was at a slight angle and the depression would start angling toward the notch(You may figure this out on your own-hard to explain) and a coal would not form this way because there wasn't enough friction. So what i did was cut the notch on the opposite side of the board than the side i was on. This solved this problem for me. I've never seen this problem with anyone else's videos so this is just something i do.
If you're having trouble at the beginning, try using a shot glass as your handhold, because this alleviates friction at the handhold. Once you get better, you can try using a hardwood as your handhold or if you can find a rock with a depression or an antler,bone,etc. Whatevevr alleviates friction up there will allow you to make a coal easier and faster. I've used oak as a handhold without lubricating it before, so its not completely necessary.Also i'd just use a nylon cord when you start. I still use one when i need a fire because my cordage making skills aren't too great :laugh:
Its all about form and wood selection(dry dead softwoods)! Choose the right wood for the drill and board, then it all comes down to you getting comfortable enough to be able to do it. Drill fast, this creates a lot more friction(I started off moving the bow back and forth way too slow, which didn't create enough friction).
Also i've read pine doesn't work too well ,its too resionous. I've never tried it before, but thats what i've read in most of the books. You decide.
I use cedar inner bark and poplar inner bark for the tinder bundle. Fluff them up by rubbing the bundles in between your hands and breaking them apart. Make this bundle in to like a birds next, so its like a depression in the middle but don't let it get too thin at the bottom of the depression. The coal will be smoking. Fan it some until it starts to smolder a bit(you see red in the coal) Put the coal in it, close the sides around it(not too tight though). And BLOW GENTLY! haha i've blown soo many away its ridiculous. Blow gently at first until it starts to heat up and catch the tinder bundle, then you can start blowing with more force till it ignites.
There are many books out there. Try your local library. I've got tom brown's field guide, and ultimate guide to wilderness living. I don't really use these for many other skills because i haven't really dove into all of the multitude of skills out there to learn, but these got me on track. The key really is though, if you do or don't get a book(Not completely necessary), form and wood selection(Just make sure the wood is soft and dead).
I've made a coal in about 11 seconds with willow before.Sometimes willow takes me 30 seconds. Its taken me 30-60 seconds with some others. So just drill as long and fast as you can. Keep trying, it took me forever to figure things out and i still have problems sometimes. feels good when you finally get it though.
Ok im finished, im in no way a pro, these are just things that have helped me. I'll let the other cavemen tell you whats really up.
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I'm no expert with this but I found a few tips that helped me out with the bow drill.
when starting to burn drill to board use a pinch of Dry sand to get it started helps big time.
if ti starts squeaking it may be getting glazed stop and ruff it up for better friction.
make your drill and board out of the same piece of wood so you have the same dencity or you my just drill wholes too fast before you can build up heat.
I made my first fire this past summer with a bow drill and have done so many times since.Its a joy the first time you get fire ,I looked like the statue of liberty running around the yard to show everyone what I accomplished.
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I personally want to see someone use the fire plow method. ive tried but never could get it hot enough.
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I use a Fire Piston. It's reliable, and much easier than the other methods. If that fails (it never has, yet) I use my Magnesium block and striker.
A magnifying lens is also a good back-up fire-starter.
I could never get the rubbing two sticks, or fire-bow things to work.
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I just got a good ember with small section Rhododendrom. A short straight bit for the spindle, two sections bound together for the board.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a277/MarkinEngland/firestarter/P1030055.jpg)
Some people in urban/city environment might not have access to lots of woods by Rhododendrom tends to be planted as an ornamental in parks etc, and with small sections I thought this might be of interest.
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Very cool. Does anyone know what wood in my area that works well for starting fire? This was on my list of things I wanted to learn this summer.
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This link has some good info for US plants.
http://www.primitiveways.com/Fire%20Making%20Materials.html
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Thats a lot of research!
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OK I cheated because I used my drill. I wanted to know if it was possible to make fire from red oak l and willow. With a little manipulation of the size and hole i did it the first time without knowing. Just dont tell Annette I started a fire in the garage. Now I need to figure out how to do it without the drill.
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There was a kid at MOJAM that was demonstrating the Egyptian bow drill method, seemed to work well. I have a couple of flint and steel kits, one with char cloth and one with a piece of wick material that you use the charred end of over and over. I can get a fire in a minute with flint and steel.
I do have some yucca shoots that I dried for use with a bow drill. Those things have been planted a lot as landscaping, look for one of those in the fall.
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for those that didnt see it, i did a youtube video about hand drilling. i give a few tips in there that a few people have told me they havnt heard before and it helped them get it done. feel free to check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN17_PxnZ1o
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That was great TL thanks for the great video. Going to give it a try with the red oak and willow. I think I will copy you video but do it with Iowa materials.
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Flint and steel is quick and easy.Make char cloth out of 100% cotton pieces sealed in a quart paint can with a small hole or two hit into each end of can and layed onto a bed of coals.Once the fire stops shooting out of the holes in can the char cloth is ready.Making birch oil out of birch bark is done the same way,only the can is set on top of a small open end can to catch the oil coming from the hole in the larger can with the birch bark in it.Sorry maybe too much info here and don't really mean to change the subject here.
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If you have never done it start out with the flint and steel and some good char cloth( i use an altoids can with no holes other than what's already there) saves you wasting the hard work of getting an ember till you know you know you can blow it into a flame. Out hear i use a sage brush spindle and a yucca or poplar hearth. I hear clamatis also works well for a hearth. I have also used yucca for spindles with the same hearth bords with good results i need to try the willow though it grows all over
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Yucca is by far the easiest spindle and hearthboard to harvest, cut down to size and get ember. With a bow of bamboo and a cord of twisted leather, one should grab smoke and ember in under 30 seconds, as yucca has an ignition point of around 200 degrees. It also grows EVERYWHERE now, thanks to "the Joneses" and everyone keeping up with them. They are used as an ornamental in every region of the country. You can only get about 3 embers per hole, as opposed to the multiple I have gotten from cottonwood (up to 9), and cutting your notch can play harder because of the softness of the wood.
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I made a tutorial on bow drill fire, I hope it will help you !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r4W2Yqw20U&list=UU9yW33ZesEUd2ZIlNrj8ZQg&index=0&feature=plcp
As for the material, here is what I use ( Quebec, Canada)
Willow ( Black willow, Bebb's Willow, etc)
Tilia
Balsam fir
Cedar ( Thuya)
Pine (white)
Spruce ( A little bit more difficult to get an ember)
Populus ( Unpredictable result)
Any Hard wood drill on Chaga board, may work on fomes too)
As for the hand drill, Mullein works good!
Hand drill video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onPOBc_yfVY&list=UU9yW33ZesEUd2ZIlNrj8ZQg&index=3&feature=plcp
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Bearing block is another good side topic. Tell us what you use!
I use a knee bone of a deer or a pig. It has a natural pocket that is perfect for multiple sizes of spindles and has a pretty awesome shape.
I have also used various wood pieces, rock, and have thought about using an old skateboard wheel with the ball bearing still inside. I figure if the spindle's girth was so that it did not slip through the whole, the ball bearing would provide frictionless spinning for as long as you need! Not primitive, but definitely hunter gatherer, as hunter gatherers tend to use what they can gather!
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I personally always prefer to use stuff that I find on the field
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Ive used mostly rocks. I have a couple with natural sockets a couple i pecked sockets in and several i drilled with a masonry bit