Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: tpoof on January 31, 2007, 05:08:24 pm
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Hey Guys,,,,
Well it seems that I could use some opinions, wonder if I might get some here ;)
Finally got time to work on the Elm Flatbow that I started probably 3 years ago! Time just seems to fly these days!
Anyway I've got it pretty much to profile and the tiller isn't even tooo bad but I just want to do something different!?
I've got a bunch of sinew from along time ago and thought that maybe this would be a good bow to practice on! This will be my first sinew job! I'm a sinew virgin ;D
The sinew is deer leg stuff and after reading bout applying it I'm sure I can do it without much trouble,,,famous last words lol I'll be using Knox instead of regular hide glue.
Heres where the opinions come in,,,, :D
Do you's think I should heat treat it?, it has a wonky deflex spot and has taken some set from tillering, bout 1.5"
Its so close to tiller I was worried that the heat treating might scorch the limbs too badly?
Don't think I have enough wood on the limbs to have to take off alot of charring?
First heat treat job as well, don't know if I should or????
This is the bow I want to put those Garter Snake skins on as well
I'll send up some pictures and you's can have a look see
Just not sure what to do but don't really want to do just another flatbow, got lots o them
With the heat treat, willI be able to put in a fair bit of recurve? even if I loose most it will still be better than string follow no?
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Man those are some crappy pictures ;D
You can't tell really but it has very close growth rings spaced about 1/16th
Still has tool marks on the belly as well
Give me some feedback,..... ??? :)
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Here's some better snaps I think
tip, grip, belly, back
What you's think?? ??? ;D
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If the limbs are thin enough to bend well, I'd maybe pull it backwards (gently) into reflex and lay the sinew to it. How long is it?
PS-like that handle shape, I make 'em similar to that sometimes.
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Its 67" overall,,,65" nock to nock
don't know how I ended up with such measures,,,, ::)
I'm not sure if I can reflex it without heat, I think she'll blow!
Maybe steam? That would also be a first ;)
Have a feeling this bow will teach alot
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Looks excellent. I've had elm pop a ring in the fade, on the belly side when I got too aggressive on the taper. Like the looks of yours but wouldn't go a whole lot farther depending upon density and soundness of your stave. Nice. love to see elm work.
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67" is pretty long for sinew backing.. depending on your draw length that is.
perhaps you should leave it that length but treat it as if it's shorter. in other words only apply sinew to the length of bow you plan on keeping.
....before I make any assumptions tell us how far you intend to draw this bow. (if you only draw 26" for instance you can likely get away with a 60" bow, maybe shorter, depending on how long the stiff grip is)
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Well my draw is right at 27 1/2" and I agree that it is long for sinew,,
When I first started to build this bow it was going to be a plain self backed(nothing) bow
then I started thinkin about this snake skin and all this sinew sitting there lol
I thought that if I can heat treat it and bend it into a shallow recurve,
then but some sinew on to keep the profile somewhat,
and back it with snakeskin (if it isn't too freezer burnt)
It would definitely be understressed at my 27.5 draw
but should be smooth yes?
Any more thoughts on this project,,,
Thankfull for what was given...
(persimmon, I'm not sure if I understand the sinew only to the length of bow I am keeping? and treat it as its shorter,
could you clarify that please and thanks for the time :) you mean cut it shorter?
What would you guys do with this ????? ???
:D
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leave the bow it's current length while sinewing but make some marks or simply stop the sinew short of where you intend to cut it off...as sinew at the very tips is only added mass.
with the longer limbs (the bow at it's current length) you can get a bit more leverage if you reverse string it while sinew is applied and dries.
hope this clears things up ??
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I'd do what hillbilly said,put some heat to that one limb.Bend it to match the other one and sinew the bow from tip to tip.Tie it into slight reflex and let it dry.You will have to retiller it after it dries any way
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ttt
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Well guys, major changes in the Elm flatbow!
Its more like a 56" semi recurve now! :o
Chopped down the tips and that threw the tiller out the window, so retillered to 28" and then built this caul, just guesstimated the proper curve, (really not sure if it is proper) and put the heat to her! Went slow at it and it all curved really easily it seemed, never used no crisco ;D, and no worry about the charring that I thought would happen.
I even thru it on the tillering tree just to have a quick look and it gained quite a bit of weight!
Tiller looks not too bad either, I'll post up some full draw shots when I get there.
Here's what it looks like for now!
I keep telling myself "its just a hunk of wood" lol
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I like it! Those big curves look like a pretty radical r/d design. But, the real question is where did you get all them arrows? Holy crap! Im lucky to have a full dozen sometimes...
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Those arrows are a story in themselves!
My wife and I used to shoot trad archery for Team Sask quite a few years ago, we went to alot of competitions and shot all over the province and Canada. The wife took to the bow like a real natural and won almost every comp she entered!
She had her pic taken by the local paper one year and it was of her shooting her bow and talk of how I build arrows and stuff and awhile later we get this phone call from an old lady.
She goes on to say how her husband died quite a few years back and he was into archery and if I liked if I wanted to come and look over some of his stuff!
Duh! Ya !! ;D Went over to her place and we get to his archery room and it is filled with stuff!, shafts of all kinds, quivers, longbows, recurves, fletching jigs, feathers, tabs, everything!!! I was in shock of it all!
She asked what I thought of it and I said that you can plainly see he was a man who loved archery and thought that she should put the gear in a museum or something! Alot of it was history itself!
She looked at me and said that I reminded her of her husband with my enthusiasm for archery and said she could see it in me when we walked into that room!
She asked how much I would be willing to pay for all that stuff andI told her it was priceless to be hence the idea of the museum!
She said I want you to take it, Roy would want you too!!
I just about hit the floor! Got it all! Lemonwood longbows, 10's of dozens of shafts all with spine deflections on them, footed arrows, a old recurve that I've never seen before, just a bunch of archery gear! ;D
Her husband Roy, is with me now when I go hunting! his shafts in my quiver, his bow in my hand, I wish this gear will go to another who loves archery after I'm dust and gone!
I get all mushy just lookin at the stuff lol! :'( ;)
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I took a couple pulls! Those curves open right up!, but seem to cpme back right where they were, very little set it seems
Didn't want to pull too much as I still want to sinew back her, then I can finish off the tiller, I hope! ;D
This bow has many faces and is a good teacher! I'll continue to work on her and see how the sinew works out.
Always open to suggestions! don't mind the school of hard knocks, but after so many years of it,,,,, lol
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Just lookin at the pics myself and thought of what it looked like just a couple sleeps ago! way different1
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some of Roy's arrows :)
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Looks good ,it came a long way.Great looking bunch of arrows also,it would take me a while to loose all of those. :)
Pappy
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You got it goin' on now-that looks good. If you sinew it now and let it pull in a little reflex, you oughta have a rocket launcher.
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Nice Tiller, tpoof. I'll bet its a smooth shooter. Got you bookmarked for Feb Self Bow of the Month, too.
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Decided to dress up the tips a bit, never seen overlays on pin nocks before, but never had a flatbow turn recurve either. lol
I think its ebony, came from a old broke pool cue, still needs finishing but more or less to shape.
Now for shredding sinew, let the games begin, I'm thinkin weekend project
Here's a few pics so its up to date. :)
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Very nice-never have seen overlays on pin nocks before.interesting......bob
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The sinew goes on! ;D
Had the wife helpin, getting bundles sorted, cleaned and ready for dipping!
Got three layers on and had just enough sinew prepped! funny how that worked out.
Now its the waitng game, maybe start something new?
Now , lets see about the garter skins,, ;) its been really fun so far!
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Gawd.............everything is so NEAT and CLEAN-you should see my work area---wife calls it the "black pit"...........bob
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That is really looking great. The kitchen is my favorite hide-glue and sinew application area too.
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Hey Guys!
Well a couple of days later and the sinew is lookin good! Turned an amber color and is getting nice and hard!
I was wondering though, for you's with more experience, if I should wrap the tips some with sinew? I'm thinkin about 1.5 inches below the tip to about 4inches below the tip, the whole curve, just not sure yet ???
Reading stories of how sinew like to pull away from the curves and figured if I can stop that before it happens it would be a good thing.
Would wrapping the recurve make it stiff, like a static recurve? I know that once I put the sinew wrapping on that I'm done for tillering in that area, might be able to bring home the tiller at the fades out to midlimb if needed. Just would like someone to give a critique :)
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I would finish tillering it first before I even thought about wraping the tips....if you did a good job degreasing and sizing the back it shouldnt lift anyways, but you could add some thread wraps down there after the tillering is done for insurance.... ;)
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Thanks Ryano! I was hoping you would reply! Yes I'm sure that I degreased the back well, I used some acetone and wiped it down twice before I sized the back. I used Knox gelatin to size the back as well as apply the sinew.
I wanted to leave the tips until after the final tillering then possibly do a red silk thread wrapping at those spots over the Garter snake skins!
Glad you replied and confirmed my thoughts!
I really like your work as well and use it as an inspiration for my own projects
Thanks again and lets keep the woodchips flying!
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Lookin good. Keep us posted.
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Its slowly comin,,,,
all kinds of problems...
pics of the latest,,,
started shooting her today
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That's a great looking bow! I like that profile, looks like a good'un.
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Hey that turned out pretty nice! Did you have to tweak the limbs like we were talking about?
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Yes Ryano and then some! :o lol
When I first bent the limbs with dry heat I must have stressed one limb big time, and cracked it! never noticed till I let the sinew dry out and put it on the tillering tree, one curve just pulled right out and twisted bad, one stayed good.
Put the heat to her again to try to regain some curve to match the other and retwist it some and I overstressed it again and cracked the limb closer to the tip this time,,,holy s--t!! :o ( this bow never really wanted to be a recurve I'm thinkin)lol ::)
So I made up some of the Jay Massey finish (epoxy and acetone)mix to a thick sirup and slapped it over the weak limb curve while having it tied to properbend and twist position! about 4 coats worth of epoxy ??? ::)
Next day it was hard as rock, put it back on the tree and darned if it didn't hold!, the curve looked good! had to retiller big time to get the limbs to match but now that I've shot it about 100 times its holding better than the other limb!??
I'm going to finish her off with those Garter skins ( I hope) and use this bow as a learning tool, which it most certainly was!
I'm thinkin of wrapping the tips with thin rawhide to help with the splint effect, might as well throw everything at her! lol
Its still quite twisted but gives good arrow pass, almost like offset limbs lol ;D
This bow, Many Faces, has been a great teacher and isn't finished her lessons yet!
As it grows or blows I'll keep you's posted! ;) 8)
Thanks again guys for all the great ideas and input!
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Well here we go!, check to see if those Garter skins are freezer burnt, one was unsalvagable 2 were good to go!
I had 2 of them in the freezer for quite a few years, maybe 8- 10, not even sure, lol.
Started to skin em out after they thawed and as I was cutting up from the vent, little babys were falling out!, :o thought they were leeches at first! but second look confirmed the baby Garters, pretty gross! ;D
They cleaned up good, tried washing them with Dawn dishsoap to degrease some and then let them dry for about 8 hrs.
They were still nice and supple when I sized the back of the bow and the skins with Knox Gelatin.
Installation went very well, I tend to worry needlessly over things sometimes! ::)
Still got to descale em and trim and finish but after alignment I think they're going to look allright!
The previous thread about the Garter snakes skins was a big help to me guys!, without youre help I'd still be in the dark on alot of this!
I've only had my computer for a year and the information is just unreal, sure makes it easier than the school of hardknocks!
Sure appreciate all the help you's have so unselfishly provided!
Here's a few of the latest pics!
Think I'll have to keep an eye open for more Garters from now on! :D
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Hey, Nice glue-up-along. I love the look of the garder snakes. I wouildn't kill one but if I had skins I'd use them.
Maybe you could skin out the babies for some of the bows Marius and friends are making. Pat
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That bow is coming along real good you should get good reviews on that bow. I sure like that recurve design. I am trying my first recruve on a bamboo. Man that thing is the dickens to tiller. Can;t wait to see yours finished. Chuck
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Thanks for the kind words Chuck! I learned alot on this bow, mainly the next time I do a recurve the limb curves will be way smaller and tighter. I'm sure I put too much stress on the limbs with that big bend! Oh well live and learn!
Pat, Those baby's are only about 3" long and !/4 " thick! A little too small I'm thinkin. :)
I don't care for killin good creatures, but that day at my buddies he had hundreds of them crawling out from under his concrete steps!, it was very upsetting for him as he hates snakes and just was almost hurling when I started catching the big ones for a future project! lol
He later put poison under the steps and now there is no more Garter's there. :'(
Poor wildlife always getting the ol heave ho!
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Its Done!, its finally done! ;D
Manyfaces is finished!
The bow looks fantastic!, the finish went well, 4 coats of gloss poly with a satin overspray to keep down the shine. Put on some Bobcat paw limb silencers on the tips, it was abit noisey with the string hitting the limbs but now she's silent.:) The colors of the paw match the dark of the snake and the tan of the wood perfect
Tied up a new B50 Dacron string, 3ply, 15 strand,black,brown and yellow,also tied in some mink tail string silencers, seems to match the colours of the bow very well!
As for a grip I had some calf lacing and used that to wrap the grip, it just seemed to match the skin scale look better. lol
Had that belly problem on the bottom limb tip and decided to put a splint on!, got some rawhide cut to fit, wetted and stitched on, dyed brown and coated in finish it is now hard and works very well, somethings just seem to work themselves out. lol Turned out almost like a static curve but still moves some.
Put her on trhe scale and she pulls 44lbs @27", 54" ntn. somewaht lighter than I hoped but still very nice to draw and seems to shoot very snappy.
I'm very pleased with the building of this bow and was going at alot of it in the dark!
If I have anyone to thank for the help in building this bow it would be you fine folk from PA!
You're unselfish giving of advise is very rare in this day and age, and is much appreciated from me big time! ;D
Well here's the rest of the pics!
Thanks again
tpoof
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a few more! ;D
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Man, that turned out nice! Great job, looks like a good'un.
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She looks very nice. You know we won't leave you alone until you show us a braced and full draw pic. Pat
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No prob! Pat B, can't make a bow and not post the most important parts! lol ;D
Thanks again guys!
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I guess I jumped you too soon. She looks great. You did a fine job with this bow. Pat
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Very nice tpoof I looked at it early on and just seen it again,it came a long way.Great job.
Pappy
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Beautiful bow right down to the details. I love those skins. I'm kinda with Pat on not liking to kill garter snakes. I always feel bad when I hit one with the lawn mower. I do relish torturning and killing rattlers though so I'm a total hypocrite. ;) Anyway, there's a bow to be proud of.
J. D. Duff
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Tpoof, that bow came out sweet! I think you may have inspired me to build another Elm recurve! That bow is awsome! :D ;)
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Really nice! Lot of good detail work that shows great craftmanship.
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That bow turned out really nice. Very well tillered. I really like the Garder Snake skins. They are about the largest Snake we have up here and I have been keeping my eyes open for some large ones
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Super job, the garter snakes give it a different look. Looks like sweet shooter.
Dana
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IMPRESSIVE, tpoof... !!..... :o :o.... :D....
I´m without words mate!...
Cheers...
Asier.
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tpoof! - that is just an AWESOME bow!!
frank
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:) Geez guys, I think my head is swelling!!! haha
You guys are busy praising my work when in reality its YOU'S who should get a pat on the back!
Without your encouragement and watching and listening to your work ( and the workmanship is awesome) this bow would have likely never happened!
This site is by far the best out there and it feels as if I know each one of you!
Thanks again for all the praises and compliments, but you all know that each one of us is doing our best in this sport that we all love!
tpoof :)
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Really nice work, I never thought of using garter snake, I've never seen any large enough here in Mich. to do a bow with. excellent pics and build along.
VB
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Beautiful bow. Thanks for posting.
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Tpoof, Outstanding !! That is one top notch bow. The tiller is great and the accents are very striking. The name for the bow is fitting as well. You have a strong contender for BOM on that beauty. Congratulations on a very impressive bow. Keenan
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:)
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what is thisone going to win BOM or BBOM ;D ;D ;D ;D
ryan should have recurved that kid's bow he just posted. he maybe would have a chance....
the pics of the bow are (among the many pics from this side that are) saved in my files!
great to share knowledge with all you crazzzy guys!!!!
frank
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Tpoof you made an outstanding bow. She looks great with the harmonic curves, the tiller is perfect, the garterskinbacking is beautiful,...... and have I told you, that I like short recurves very much ;)
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Take a look at this elm recurve by tpoof. Very nice and now bookmarked for April Self Bow of the Month
tpoof: is this bow the same one?
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Hey Oldbow, no actually that bow is another,,, the pics of the Elm Flatbow are on page 3,,, Manyfaces is its name. ;D
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Wow, somebody's got a 94" draw lenght. LOL Actually, that bow looks well beyond the point where a short string would give a better indication of it's tiller.
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Haha! yes funny how that works.. DCM.
for over ten years I've made bows that used that same string till it go to the point where I put a short string on and never had a mis tillered or broken bow....
good input though...
its been covered
some critisiums have no merit
and no use....
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I remember that bow from last month, wondered what had happened to it. I was very impressed with it then as I am now. Words of description that I think apply: awesome, classey, detailed, dangerous! ;)
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Wow, this is the first I've seen of this bow. They don't get much nicer than this. A truly beautiful bow.
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tpoof, I kind of lost track of this before the FDs were added, I guess. I will be adding them to my TBD pages (Page11) later these AM. Good looking recurve. Thanks.