Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: jimmy on November 10, 2009, 11:01:40 am
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I'm not one to draw lines in the sand when it comes to bow hunting. Fred Asbell, for example, uses fiberglass and is probably as good a traditional hunter as anyone. Furthermore, I want to congratulate everyone here who has taken animals with their chosen weapons. However, a lot of what some people are doing in this forum is somewhat contractive to the traditional approach to hunting and pursuing game (feeders, trail cams, elaborate costumes, etc.). This is fine I suppose, but why talk about it on a sight called " Primitive Archer " ? None of these modern methods are necessary for success. I thought guys into this form of hunting understood that.
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This is true. The thing is, there is no hard line that shows how far the "primitive" approach should extend. For example, as primitive hunters we typically drive a vehicle to our favorite hunting spots, we use these computers to talk about primitive archery, we use metal to scrape our bows, and B-50 for bow strings. Since there is no one hard line, everyone just does what they feel like doing however they feel like doing it. Your point is taken though.
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I don't consider myself a "primitive" hunter...My bows, yes they are all "primitive" but I shoot carbon arrows out of them for accuracy (and because I don't know the first thing about making arrows) with muzzy mx-3 broadheads...I also wear a ghillie suit and have a trail camera....so I guess you could say that Im about half and half...I just don't want to spend the money on a compound or FG bow....maybe just 1/3rd primitive, 1/3 traditional and 1/3 modern... 8) 8) 8) , trail cam's aren't hunting tools though...I consider mine a "scouting" tool
-Ky
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I never said I was a primitive archer,I make, shoot and hunt with all wood bows . :)
to cold even here in TN. for me to go out in a loin cloth. ;) :)
Pappy
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I'm not talking about playing Indian in the woods. I'm just saying that traditional archers and hunters are in a separate class of sorts. I can only dream of being as good a hunter and archer as Howard Hill, and I don't think he ever relied on automation to do his hunting and scouting for him. I will never be as good, but I can strive to become something different than the modern compound guy with his automatic feeders and electronic eyes watching the woods. I'm not trying to define or debate what primitive is. I just feel, as Jay Massey did, that these techniques make for weaker and less knowledgable hunters.
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I think we can all appreciate what you're saying jimmy :)
-Ky
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Partially a result of our society. Most of the people on here need to spend our days at a job just so we can pay our bills and feed our families. As a result, time is often the resource that is in shortest supply, thus some of the 'shortcuts' you mentioned. This enables us to still participate in something we love which otherwise might not be possible or practical. Don't get me wrong, I would be all for more primitive in my life, but that dang gas company won't take processed sinew on trade so I'm stuck working for the man lol :D.
And all that said, I would have a hard time giving up my bandsaw (et al), toilet paper, and probably a host of other things if they were suddenly taken away.
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Well most people are primitive to various amounts, I'm about 1/2 primitive in that so far I don't think you can beat FG (gasp) for durability on bows, and I like modern contraptions like arrow adapters etc. for practical reasons, but the bow and tackle I use are only a shadow away from what primitive societies used and shooting form etc. is pretty much the same,
if you try to go 100% primitive you're talking about using primitive glues, tools and the like and very few people actually go to that extreme.
Trail cams are fun but makes me wonder if that constitutes fair chase:)
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Jimmy, if it makes you feel better, I don't own a trail camera or a game feeder. I do all of my hunting spot and stock, wood bow, wood arrows, stone points, and usually bare feet, although the cactus are hard on the feet. I do wish I had a trail cam. Not for scouting, just to see more cool pictures of the lions tigers and bears. OH MY. ;D Sorry, I couldn't help myself. I like seeing pictures of animals even if they are not really high quality pictures.
As for posting them on a primitive website, we allow discussion of some pretty bizarre stuff in the Anything Else section. Beside, there isn't much primitive about internet and we are having this conversation on the internet. :-\
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As I said before, I'm not talking about being and living primitive. I work for a living and have a family, and I still somehow manage to shoot deer with my bow without using electronics. Some of you guys just miss the whole point, but thanks for reading anyway. Just think about what I'm saying. Read the forward sections of the traditional bowyers bibles. Become a better hunter, you don't need the gadgets. Over and out.
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I hear you Jimmy, I also don't use any electronics to find, scout, aid or attract animals, not that I have a problem with it if you do. And I agree that becoming a better hunter is far better than all the gadgets in the world. I guess what I was getting at is that part of becoming a better hunter is spending time in the field, the more the better, and that's something that not everyone can always do.
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I guess I have to say that I use my trail cam for "scouting" but that doesn't always aid me...Ive got pictures of a 160 class 5x6 and 5 other bucks on the property and I only wish that meant I got to see them...cuz I haven't seen a buck all season....I guess I just like looking at the pictures more than anything...ive got pictures of deer, turkeys, squirrels, coons, rabbits, badgers, coyotes and acouple red-tailed hawks going after the squirrels...just interesting to see whats going on when you're not around i guess. But I do agree with you on feeders...you can't bait in Nebraska...
-Ky
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... that these techniques make for weaker and less knowledgable hunters.
True. But how many people get to hunt how and as much as they want? I hunt from the ground and don't have any gadgets to help me, but I've yet to put a tag on an arrowed deer or turkey.
Truth is, alot of people just don't have the time/energy/ambition to make it even harder. How you hunt is a personal thing, and in the end you just have to do what makes YOU happy. So long as it's legal, there isn't alot to be said. Hey, a wooden bow and a treestand is better than a compound and a lazer range finder in my book.
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My chosen way to hunt is use my selfbow, homemade wooden arrows,quiver. I love to stillhunt, but, where I live now I only have access to very small track of land. There are signs of hogs having been there before however the only feasible way to hunt the area is to bait the hogs in. I don't think I'm taking a cheap shot as It's either that or no hunting at all. Ron
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Pappy ,I bet youd look like the stud horse of the woods in a loin cloth,just judgen from pictures,Dave.
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Jimmy
I finally managed to take a deer this year with "organic" equipment. I shot from a treestand without the use of a feeder or electronics. However because it was with a treestand it isn't really primitive and is relying on a "gadget". Some folks use feeders or cameras, and I'm sure if you look hard enough you might find that you use items that make the process easier. Items that others may look down upon. My feeling is, hunt how you feel is the best way for you to hunt and not spend too much of your time worrying if others are primitive enough. ;) This is all just for fun, not for competition.
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Well according to the people that I run into in the woods I am not primitive but a relic. I wear the buckskin shirt , shoot the wood bow rawhide backed, my arrows are cane or shoots with bone heads fletched with turkey bound by sinew . My quiver is plains style made out of elk hide decorated with teeth and beads. my war bag is made out of elk hide [fanny pack] my knife sheath is highly beaded and my stand is made out of wood. [it is a booger to drag in and out] I have been called hard core hunter,by those in the woods that are covered in the latest store bought camo carrying the latest high tech equipment and climbing trees in climbing aluminum stands and have been showed the utmost respect from them. However my equipment is just effective as theres is ,I do not consider myself primitive at all ,but fortunate to be able to hunt in the way that our ancestors hunted. From this way I have gleaned a great respect for the woods not as a place to kill deer but a place that provides the means and materials for what you need.I have found a great respect for the native American people at being so sufficient in this surrounding . I believe primitive is in the eye of the beholder, I still use a battery powered flashlight in the dark to get to my stand a candle would be dangerous to carry or a torch I hunt wild game trails I do not bait use deer cocaine or any thing like that. But I do hunt with pride ,pride because I know that the stuff I use to hunt with is all crafted by my hand I am not primitive but self sufficient in the woods just my two cent s worth but istill drive a modern vehicle live in a modern house and work for the man to pay the gas bill and enjoy forced heating on a cold winters night and enjoy talking to my brothers of the bow on this electronic contraption
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Just stumbled into this Mess of a Post....and I think I will Meander rightback out again................but by the way....Hows the Weather up there in Missouri anyways...... ::) ;D ;)
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Alright, this is the last time I'll respond on this subject, and I think I regret ever having brought it up. I am not in any way "worried" about anyone else and how they hunt. I am not in a competition with anyone here or anywhere. I said in my first post that it was not my intention to draw lines in the sand between what's primitive and what's not. I hunt with a 60 pound osage bow and river cane arrows. Primitive? Not totally. Traditional? Absolutely. I don't even really post in this forum or any other. I use this site as a tool for learning since I make my own tackle. It just seemed strange to me that on a site called "primitive archer" a lot of the hunting methods were no different that the other hunting forums on the internet. That's all, really. If some of you would have actually read and understood my first post, then this subject probably would not have made it this far. Sorry for the criticism boys,"hunt" however you please. Far be it from me to question anything.
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It just seemed strange to me that on a site called "primitive archer" a lot of the hunting methods were no different that the other hunting forums on the internet.
Hard to get someone actual meanign from just one or two posts. But Primitive archer is just about wooden bows and arrows, not primitive hunting. Sorry you were offended by the responses.
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''Primitive'' is just a word modern man made up. lndians used the best weapons available to them at the time...and so do we. When the ''white man'' came snooping around with his guns claiming they're better than the bows and proved it, alot of the indians made the switch because the guns were better for hunting and made life alot easier for them. Today, we devote most of our time trying to earn a living because living off the land is illegal to do in todays times...all the indians had to do was hunt and gather etc. The thing l'm trying to say is, if the indians had this technology available to them like we do today, l'm sure they would have went for it. l hunt with the best equipment l can afford and l'm not ashamed of it.
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Jim you'll find the whole spectrum of bowhunters on the forum, but a whole lot of hunters who like to hunt the hard way like yourself,
That's cool you pull 60#, no weenie bow for you:)
I think anyone who hunts with a traditional type bow is hunting primitive,
don't apologize for wanting to discuss a subject,
there's lots of people and threads with hunters who are real purist and hunt as primitive as it gets on the forum:)
zeNBowyer
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No sweat jimmey, don't let it get you down, most of us trad guys are passionate about this stuff and can at times be pretty defensive (myself included).
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I think the reason we all have our own ideas and thoughts about what is "Primitive" or "
traditional" is because it is an evolution and doesn't happen over night. Example: We put down the laminated bow for the selfbow. Then we decide to use natural shaft over mfg. Then we replace the metal broadhead with a stone one and so on and so forth. Some of us continue on this path - quivers, clothing, knives, etc..., some of us stay with just the bow and some revert back to modern lamenates or worse yet "wheelies" ??? . Its all about where you are on the road to "Primitive". I prefer most of the "Primitive" weapons, tools, clothing, and methods but I still feel that I have a long way to go.
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i use it all trail cameras, feeders, camo but i have fun doing it. i like to put meat in the freezer. maybe one day i will hunt nude and take something yall dont wana be around me when i do.
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If some of you would have actually read and understood my first post, then this subject probably would not have made it this far. Sorry for the criticism boys,"hunt" however you please. Far be it from me to question anything.
Question? Did you read my post. I don't use trailcams or anything like that. I do wear clothes from the store, and drive to my hunting location so I guess I don't count either.
As for the site, I will make it a little clearer for you. We allow discussion of almost anything in the anything else thread. Pictures and stories in the hunting and shooting section were taken with primitive equipment. Bows in the bow section are made with natural materials. If you are looking for all Primitive People, look in a cave not on the internet.
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Well Put Justin........If We were Primitive People...would we have cell Phones...Climate Controlled Homes....Internet....IPODS....come on ....No One is a Primitive on this Site......and if You are looking for some ....you are on the wrong piece of equipment...try a Tribal Drum to get in contact....Duh!!!.............. :P
Woodstick........Just don't use Doe in Estrus Scent...while Hunting Commando like that........ ;D
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Jimmy, I understand what you're saying-but if we were to pursue true "primitive hunting", we would be chasing herds of critters off cliffs, setting the woods on fire and clubbing everything to death that ran out the other side, hunting at night, setting snares in deer trails, building corrals with mile-long wing fences and herding animals into them, and such. The game wardens around here don't like that kind of stuff much. ;D
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.......and poison arrows ;D
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Well, I gotta say, I agree with a lot of what Jimmy says. On one hand, I don't have a primitive bow. I have a Martin Saber. I make my own arrows. I'd say I'm more of a traditional archer, but a lot of stuff I make myself, so hence the primitive.
Now, I'm not going to blow smoke here. There are times I NEED the meat being as rabbit and jackrabbit hunting here is year round. No bag lmits on jackrabbits. I'm unemployed. When I NEED the meat, I will be using a Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun. But I work on getting better and better with the bow with the eye of using the bow exclusively for rabbit hunting. Cheaper in the long run since I can reuse the ammo.
I can't afford electronic gadgets. I don't have a cell phone and don't want one. I don't want people to be able to get a hold of me anytime. I want to live my life, not theirs. I don't need to talk to anyone on the phone while I'm out doing my own thing. That's not a life. And I don't want electronics on my hunt, even if I could afford them, which I can't so it's a moot point anyway. If I can't hunt without the aid of electronics, I'll hang up my bows (and guns) and forget about it. I don't have a GPS, I have a compass that the United States Army taught me to use and I never forgot that training. I couldn't afford a GPS anyway.
I'm getting pretty tired of going into the woods and hearing ATVs and seeing the damage they leave behind. That's not just hunters, too. If a person can't get into the woods without an ATV, they shouldn't be there. Sorry. Our search and rescue here spends way too much time rescuing people who have no business being in the woods. Because those people are suddenly clueless and scared when the ATV breaks down. Then they dial up on the cell phone for help. That goes for everyone, not just hunters. People let their gadgets lull them into the belief that they don't need woodcraft. Yeah, and they find a couple people that thought that when the snow melts here, too, almost every year.
Now, yes, I use firearms. I can't afford to shoot them once the ammo runs out for the rifles; at least not to shoot them for targets/plinking. A shotgun is of the most use for me. But, there it is. Yes, I shoot a modern fiberglass-backed recurve bow. But I think all the gadgets are not doing hunting any kind of service in the overall long run. In my mind, there's no excuse for a hunter to be lost in the woods and he hasn't got a compass. "Oh, the GPS broke..." Whatever. Some people like gadgets because hunting is their passion and it gives them more things to get involved in. And you know what? That's fine, too. But there's a flip side to that coin. Other people don't have to approve of it and like it. Just like the gadgeteers don't have to listen to the soapbox of anti-technology. But we can discuss it and compare notes, see why we all think that way, and so on. Personally, I don't want to buy one thing more than absolutely necessary for hunting. Hunting is a state of mind, not state-of-the-art.
Yes, I'm opinionated. But, hey, whaddya gonna do? ;D
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good point el d, that may get bad.lol
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Well, I gotta say, I agree with a lot of what Jimmy says. On one hand, I don't have a primitive bow. I have a Martin Saber. I make my own arrows. I'd say I'm more of a traditional archer, but a lot of stuff I make myself, so hence the primitive.
Now, I'm not going to blow smoke here. There are times I NEED the meat being as rabbit and jackrabbit hunting here is year round. No bag lmits on jackrabbits. I'm unemployed. When I NEED the meat, I will be using a Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun. But I work on getting better and better with the bow with the eye of using the bow exclusively for rabbit hunting. Cheaper in the long run since I can reuse the ammo.
I can't afford electronic gadgets. I don't have a cell phone and don't want one. I don't want people to be able to get a hold of me anytime. I want to live my life, not theirs. I don't need to talk to anyone on the phone while I'm out doing my own thing. That's not a life. And I don't want electronics on my hunt, even if I could afford them, which I can't so it's a moot point anyway. If I can't hunt without the aid of electronics, I'll hang up my bows (and guns) and forget about it. I don't have a GPS, I have a compass that the United States Army taught me to use and I never forgot that training. I couldn't afford a GPS anyway.
I'm getting pretty tired of going into the woods and hearing ATVs and seeing the damage they leave behind. That's not just hunters, too. If a person can't get into the woods without an ATV, they shouldn't be there. Sorry. Our search and rescue here spends way too much time rescuing people who have no business being in the woods. Because those people are suddenly clueless and scared when the ATV breaks down. Then they dial up on the cell phone for help. That goes for everyone, not just hunters. People let their gadgets lull them into the belief that they don't need woodcraft. Yeah, and they find a couple people that thought that when the snow melts here, too, almost every year.
Now, yes, I use firearms. I can't afford to shoot them once the ammo runs out for the rifles; at least not to shoot them for targets/plinking. A shotgun is of the most use for me. But, there it is. Yes, I shoot a modern fiberglass-backed recurve bow. But I think all the gadgets are not doing hunting any kind of service in the overall long run. In my mind, there's no excuse for a hunter to be lost in the woods and he hasn't got a compass. "Oh, the GPS broke..." Whatever. Some people like gadgets because hunting is their passion and it gives them more things to get involved in. And you know what? That's fine, too. But there's a flip side to that coin. Other people don't have to approve of it and like it. Just like the gadgeteers don't have to listen to the soapbox of anti-technology. But we can discuss it and compare notes, see why we all think that way, and so on. Personally, I don't want to buy one thing more than absolutely necessary for hunting. Hunting is a state of mind, not state-of-the-art.
Yes, I'm opinionated. But, hey, whaddya gonna do? ;D
Says the man on the computer.....I'm just busting your chops. ;D
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Yeah, but see, I bought it back when I could afford it and had a job. ;) And did I mention I don't know how to do much besides email, go on the net, and play DVDs with this thing, LOL?
Most of the elecotronic doo-dads are just more crap to carry and more crap to deal with and more crap to buy, IMHO. Honestly, I probably wouldn't understand how to set up a trail cam, use it, or what-have-you. I can tell you anything you want to know about history of almost any time period, but can't figure out most electronic gadgets. I just think it's a marketing scam, the lot of them. I'm also kinda cheap. If I have to lay out a bunch of cash to buy hunting gear, and it ends up costing me like $70.00 a pound for the meat, it's not worth it to me. I can buy venison for $9.00 a pound at the local natural food store, take it in the backyard, and shoot an arrow into it once it thaws and save $61.00. Yes, there's a Scot in my family tree. I can get an OTC archery deer tag here for $34 dollars. Gas would only be about $10.00. Yeah, maybe I don't fill it, but I'm not making payments on a bunch of gadgets, either. And I'm only out $44 if I don't fill it; not some few hundred dollars for all these geegaws.
The point is, I can use my bow and arrow for target shooting. My hunting gear doubles as hiking gear. Heck, my hunting knife I carry all the time anyway. But if I had those electronic gadgets, I couldn't use them for anything but a very specific thing and then I'd have to pay for them. They also make things too complicated. I don't like things getting overly complicated. It's why I'm not a big fan of fancy French cooking. I want to get my bow and quiver, my survival gear, knife, the food and water and go. Not deal with a bunch of crap needing my attention. Oh, I gotta watch this video of my trail cam for the past few hours. No way. I saw an electronic blood tracker. Geez, and you know some guy was a forensics lab tech and was using it and said, man, I could use this for hunting and sell it for two hundred dollars!
Hey, if it floats other peoples' boats, whatever. I just like things simple. That's why people can't call me when I'm out shooting my bow or any other time I'm away from the house. "What if someone needs to get a hold of you?!" They'll call back. But 9/10ths of the cell phone calls I hear in public are of the kinds that make ya wanna show that individual a new cell phone carrier. I know more personal information I didn't want to know about total strangers than I do about my own extended family. I was in one restaurant and one of this other table's party went to the can. Now get this---from the bathroom, this person calls the people at the table on the cell phone and gives them his order. Ya gotta be kiddin' me! Another time, at this one bathroom, a guy is on his cell phone IN the bathroom stall, soundtrack and all. I'm sorry, but the phone can't wait while you jettison extra weight?! What's this world coming to?! Things are so important that the person on the other end needs to hear the whole thing---and the soundtracks from the people in the other stalls?! This is just....wrong. See, this is how electronics are running our lives and not making our lives easier like the sellers say they will. A person can't even go to the crapper without someone needing to talk to them on the phone.
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You make a good point. But the world is changing. Heck, look at Primitive Archer. True, it may not be "primitive" to have a web site, but I've learned more here than anywhere else. And they surely didn't have it from the beginning. The thing about technology is it's easy to see where we've come from- but it's hard to always see where we're going.
I say jsut go with the flow, and watch out for rocks ;D
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What we call primitive today was state- of-the- art thousands of years ago,
and it was that edge that allowed certain bands to successfully compete with other bands for food, shelter, mates etc.
We are going through the pangs of the transition to super high tech, we have not completely adapted but in the long run (if we do not kill ourselves) we will integrate the technology into society,
even so todays high tech will be primitive in 100 years,
isn't it wonderful we still enjoy the hunting technology developed 40,000 years ago (or more:)