Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Bushman452 on December 04, 2009, 01:45:43 am
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Arrow Affliction is a cool show but it's all about a punk redneck with a compound bow but he isn't the all round master I believe Lajos Kassai is the greastest archer of our time and he can totally take that compound junkie to school. Remember if it wasn't for the Huns there wouldn't be a compound.
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I don't see the connection between asian bows and the compound (?)
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Lajos Kassai,the greatest archer of our time?While i dont purpose to take away from the mans skill as an archer,i would think that is a very bold statement,considering the quality of archers we have in our time.And what exactly is,"Our time"?
Another little tidbit of Historical fact,that is widely unknown.While most attribute the Modern compound as we know it to Mr Allen,it was actually INVENTED by another.While Allen,did in fact have the first Patent on the Modern compound,it was Dick Hamilton who was credited as drawing up the first set of known plans for the "Compound"as we know it today.Dick never shot one though as he is a die hard traditionalist who never strayed from his,trusty hill style bows,even when the rage was the recurve.Dick is more known for his Hunting skills and association with Jay Massey,who together developed the Moosejohn outfitter buisness,that cateres to Traditional bowhunters.
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Actualy, the Huns didn't shoot anything close to a compound. They shot a siyah-type composite recurve with an assymetrical, shorter lower limb. The Huns didn't invent the composite bow. The composite bow most likely did develop on the steppes of Asia. But long before the Huns and Mongols, it was brought to the Middle East by Indo-Aryan and Semitic tribes. It's what gave the Hyksos---probably proto-Hebrews---the ability to conquer Egypt. That, and the chariot. The chariot preceded horse riders as the platform for the composite bow. Being that the Semites and Indo-Aryans who came out of Asia were pastoralists, the composite bow was probably a logical step on the steppes where bow wood was almost non-existant and if you couldn't defend your flocks, you didn't survive. After the Hyksos, then the composite bow spread across the Middle East. The Hyksos came into Egypt around 1620 BC; a long, long time before the Huns showed up. The only resource on the steppes is grass and much of it only suitable for pastoralism. Hence, the composite bow is at least as old as pastoralism as practiced on the steppes.
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Well, some say the Penobscot bow might be 'something like a forefather' to the compound, but I can't really see the connection to the Huns' bow either. And the Hornbow is also not the Huns' invention; at the times of the Hunnic empire middle of the first Millennium, the hornbow was an ancient weapon already!
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Frankly, I think the modern recurve, and the target self-recurve before, were more fore runners for the compound than any historical piece. Mostly because of the reasons behind their developement: war/hunting vs. technical precision and higher scores.
But I do understand your feelings about alot of shooters on televions and what not. Big egos for little reason.
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well arrow affliction is a great show, and i dont care if it is with a compound bow or stick bow you gota say he has some great tallent. i wish i could shoot that good. as far as history goes dunno. but he is a great shot.
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well arrow affliction is a great show, and i dont care if it is with a compound bow or stick bow you gota say he has some great tallent. i wish i could shoot that good. as far as history goes dunno. but he is a great shot.
What sort of shooting does he do? I've never seen the show, and only have 1 1/2 network television channels ;D
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alor of ariel shots,
hundreds of arrows this guy shoots,ive seen hime do trick shots
like richochet shots,multiple arrows at once and hitting multiple targets etc etc
he truly is a great shot,just needs to tone down the hardcore heavymetal theme music that he uses.
notthat i dont like hard/heavy rock(love it)just dont like it with my hunting
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My favorite episode of his is when they went bullfrog hunting and he shot the snapping turtle!! CAN'T WAIT TO DO THAT THIS SUMMER! But I wouldn't say that there would be one traditional/primitive design that led to the compound.... I just call it unnecessary evolution ;D
-Ky
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here the evolution of the compund bow ;D
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5140/1000936.jpg)
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the one on the far right looks like a cross between a penobscott and a compound, how weird... :) -josh
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Really don't like the way any of them looks...!
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At least those have limbs. My friend just bought a new compound and the limbs were about 6" long. I'm pretty sure at this point they are only there to give the pulleys a place to rest. ;)
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alor of ariel shots,
hundreds of arrows this guy shoots,ive seen hime do trick shots
like richochet shots,multiple arrows at once and hitting multiple targets etc etc
he truly is a great shot,just needs to tone down the hardcore heavymetal theme music that he uses.
notthat i dont like hard/heavy rock(love it)just dont like it with my hunting
Hmmm... what sort of targets for the arial/multiple shots?
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ive sen him use such things as volleyballs(i think) or something similar
he gets some one to throw them for him from a slight distance
multiple targets shots were all stationary targets
ive seen him put a steel plate on the ground and along the sides of buildings and do richochet shots and pop balloos
he does alot of the same kinda shooting as whats his name with the trad bow BYRON FERGUSON
not quits as good but when he does them you usualy see him take several tries,but he does do what he says he can do
but he realy needs to lay off of all the energy drinks
this guy is wired all the time
personaly i quit watching cause i couldnt take that type of music on a hunting show
i like them a little more sureal
i did like the episode when he was rabit hunting in south dakota i think it was
rabbits every where
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Phooeey on compounds...seen a guy do trick shots with a longbow before. Hit friggin' coins and then on to aspirins thrown in the air. It was a video. I think it was something like "Hitting Them Like Howard Hill" or something. Dude was a friend of Hill. Lots of Native bowmen could do trick shots as just routine skill. There are several frontier writers that saw them do it and documented it.
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That's interesting Tsalagi, I would be interested in reading some of those excerpts
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There are a few excerpts about it in a book called "The Lightning Stick" by Henrietta Stockel. That book also has some very fascinating reading about arrow wounds and very graphic descriptions of them, too. The other is an old book from the 1890s; I'll have to get the title later.
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That book, fascinating as it is can be viewed (partially) online,
medical personel will find it particularly good reading
http://books.google.com/books?id=JGtXq2OV0r0C&dq=The+Lightning+Stick+by+Henrietta+Stockel&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=nPkU8jvONN&sig=qBZpcpeKH3Ef8dUtxka81787kzI&hl=en&ei=iH4bS4XwEITasQPwp4SRBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false
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Phooeey on compounds...seen a guy do trick shots with a longbow before. Hit friggin' coins and then on to aspirins thrown in the air. It was a video. I think it was something like "Hitting Them Like Howard Hill" or something. Dude was a friend of Hill. Lots of Native bowmen could do trick shots as just routine skill. There are several frontier writers that saw them do it and documented it.
John Shulz did "Hitting 'Em Like Howard Hill". Yes, there are a number of people who can do that stuff with longbows- even me! Though I'm still working on coins and aspirin, bottle caps aren't impossible and milk jug caps are getting easier. Ricochets, shooting in a mirror, out of position and what not. I just need more practice ;D
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Lajos Kassai
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOpOqgotJZc
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he shoots ballons fruit whatever he gets his hands on, i seen him shoot dove, pheasent, ducks all kinds of things and alot of trick shots he is good.
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The old Allen compound bow factory is just a few miles from me. The building sat there for years ,an old white building with red trim had the name Allen Bows painted on the side of it. Somebody finally took the building over and turned it into a flea market,little bitty one horse town you never would of thought that is where the training wheeled bow started.
Dennis
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I watch the Arrow Affiction guy shoot balloons out to 100 yards with a compound. It had nice fiberoptic sites. On the War bow board here, the English are having a shoot where the target is 220 yards away, and 12" dia. with They said Selfbows preferd( as aposed to laminated bows. no sites now thats impresive. Joel
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I watch the Arrow Affiction guy shoot balloons out to 100 yards with a compound. It had nice fiberoptic sites. On the War bow board here, the English are having a shoot where the target is 220 yards away, and 12" dia. with They said Selfbows preferd( as aposed to laminated bows. no sites now thats impresive. Joel
enough said. ;D
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I really like the Arrow Affliction show, it's one of the few hunting shows I can stand to watch. The guy shoots a compound (read: sponsorship $$) but he has a trad attitude and shoots instinctively much of the time like a trad shooter. Those sights don't help you much when you're shooting at a flying dove. :) He's got a pretty refreshing show amidst all the horn-porn. This guy just loves to shoot and loves to hunt...anything. You won't see many guys on hunting shows bowhunting rabbits, bullfrogs, doves, pheasants, wharf rats, etc. Plus, I like the music. ;D
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I really like the Arrow Affliction show, it's one of the few hunting shows I can stand to watch. The guy shoots a compound (read: sponsorship $$) but he has a trad attitude and shoots instinctively much of the time like a trad shooter. Those sights don't help you much when you're shooting at a flying dove. :) He's got a pretty refreshing show amidst all the horn-porn. This guy just loves to shoot and loves to hunt...anything. You won't see many guys on hunting shows bowhunting rabbits, bullfrogs, doves, pheasants, wharf rats, etc. Plus, I like the music. ;D
yup,but i still cant stand the background music they use
lile isaid i like heavy/hard metal,but not in my hunting shows
i like them just a tad more siren ;D
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I thought about a compound bow once. Worst 15 seconds of my life.
A guy gave me some ancient compound bow years back. I mean, this thing was older than some of the rocks around here. I kept the Bear Razorheads that were in the tackle box with it and gave it all to a buddy at work. I never even tried shooting it.
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I thought about a compound bow once. Worst 15 seconds of my life.
A guy gave me some ancient compound bow years back. I mean, this thing was older than some of the rocks around here. I kept the Bear Razorheads that were in the tackle box with it and gave it all to a buddy at work. I never even tried shooting it.
I grew up shooting compound bows and bought a $995.00 compound bow a year ago and it was one of the best weapons l ever bought. l try to stay traditional/primitive but that bow is so nice to shoot l just cant stop using it. I recommend trying a new compound bow before you start discing em'. l might of stitched back to a compound bow but l still shoot instinctive like l have been for the past 4 or 5 yrs. oh yeah, l think Tim Wells of Relentless Pursuit is about the best archer l've ever seen shoot a bow, without a doubt.
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Tim, I like hard, screaming heavy metal. :)
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Sorry, JustAim, if I want a machine, that machine will be a firearm. ;D
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Sorry, JustAim, if I want a machine, that machine will be a firearm. ;D
I wholeheartedly agree!!!
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as much as i like making self bows etc
i still own and shoot my wheelie bow
as heavy as it is,as loud as it seems compared to a self bow,i do still enjoy being able to drive a tack every now and again
hell come spring,if i dont get drawn for gun season for buzzards.
i will buy a bow permit and probably use my compound.
now before you all go getting up in my face about it,its not only a comfort factor its a portability issue in our woods.
when it comes to chasing turkeys with a bow,i am much more comfortable with my abilities with a compound versus a selfbow on such a hard target
especially since i will only take a head shot with a bow.our woods are virtually nothing more than large briar patches.
especially in the spring when everyting is busting loose with new growth.a wheelie bow is half the length of a self bow and goes thru the brush much eaiser when on foot
although if i had a selfbow that i was as confortable in i would definataly go to that first jmho
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Checked out some Kassai vids and found this here that I have not seen before: selfbow at aerial targets...NICE!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GYHzb8gFDU&feature=related
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A compund feels like carrying a bicycle around to me, too heavy, bulky, and machine-y. :)
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I think it's odd how sometimes someone posts a new topic and the thread goes on and on and on but the initiator never seems to come back to it!? ??? ??? ???
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if yall never seen the show give it a try, i watch it every time i get a chance he is a great shot, and i like the music thats my style, i know yall see pics of me and cant put two and two together, but i do.
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Arn't the limbs on his bows all glass?
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Arn't the limbs on his bows all glass?
YES!
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Perosnally, I'd never throw rocks at someone who uses a compound, especially if they also shoot sticks. Ethical hunting it ethical hunting, and so long as it isn't in the bow/hunting forums, I see no issue. Of course, I make my poor selfbows shoot evil arrow shafting too ;D
But I think we can all agree: props to a good shot, even more props if their gear is also trad/primitive, right?
So I'll take it upon myself to be the next longbow trick shot (if i can)... with a selfbow!
Anybody willing to hold an apple on their head so I can practice >:D?
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I would like to nominate radius for that shot:)
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I would like to nominate radius for that shot:)
lol
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My son had never hunted with a training wheel bow before he said dad you cant judge one against the other unless you try them both. So I said son if thats the way you feel go grab the bear off the wall and try it just take Osage rose along with us just in case. Well we went to the woods and he took the compound with him we got into the woods and he said man these things are heavy. Then a little farther into the timber he said dad its like the woods are hissing at me. A rabbit came running across the trail up came the compound he grunted and pulled then lowered the bow and said man you cant snap shoot these either. He said hold on a minute dad I will be back and he took off through the woods When he returned he was carrying Osage rose the bow he made,and nothing was said. Yep I think my boy is going to be alright.
Dennis
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Great little story Dennis, Thanks!
Nate
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I started with a little cheap red fiberglass bow, graduated to as bear compound, then discovered osage self bows. I leave peopel there freedom to use compounds but to me compounds are as fun as dancing witha fat woman, their clumsy and not very graceful.
Even though the simple wood bow or a sexy asian static recurve bow may not launch arrows with as flat a trajectory as a so called compound bow, there is just something that feels light and right about a more primitive bow. I might add that for most of us a primitive bow costs almost nothing but time and effort. The poorest man in the world could probably come up with a highly effective hunting implement with the natural materials at his disposal.
To me hunting with a compound only proves that one has the money to buy one, if proving something is important to someone.
Back to the point of the post, I don't think there is any real historical conection between the Eastern composite horn bows and the modern compound bow. One might be able to make the case of a connection in physics principles. Both kinds of bows try to achieve a sort of let off of stack on the pull by leverage. One uses a gear ratio method by means of pulleys, the other uses a lever principle like adding a pipe to a wrench handle to give more turning power.
Other than those similarities the two bows are as different as night and day when compared in construction, use, and methodology.
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I dunno, I think larger women are more like primitive bows- all curves, care, and appeal. Compounds remind me of those anorexic fashion models. Don't look natural and are better left in magazines than in your house ;)
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I dunno, I think larger women are more like primative bows- all curves, care, and appeal. Compounds remind me of those anorexic fashion models. Don't look natural and are better left in magazines then in your house ;)
right on Kegan
hey look at the movie "Hair Spray" both the original and the modern version
both had some very voluptuous women that could shake their money makers with the best of the thin women
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I dunno, I think larger women are more like primative bows- all curves, care, and appeal. Compounds remind me of those anorexic fashion models. Don't look natural and are better left in magazines then in your house ;)
Totally agree Kegan