Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Little John on January 30, 2010, 11:53:06 am
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It has been years since I have shot a glass bow but took out my old 65# centershot traditional recurve and shot a few and was impressed with how well I shot as I have not been too proud of my shooting lately. Don't know if I just had a good day or if the center shot bows are that much easier to shoot well. Kenneth
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not sure you want to listen to me as i havent shot a glass bow since i was teen ager and i am not a great shot or bowyer
but i would think that a center shot glass bow is going to be more forgiving just for the fact that there is
less paradox to come into play with the arrows.
i would,and currently am,try and make a center shot self bow and see how your shooting goes from there.
i cant believe that a glass bow is just "BETTER".i would think that its more about being center shot vs non center shot
where paradox has more of an effect.
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Yep and I think it also goes back to what Jay Massey wrote about the heavy handled bows, probably just the weight makes them more stable just like a heavy barrelled rifle. Too bad they have just about the same personality as a compound device. Kenneth
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I make a lot of my bows near or at center shot. I have even made bows with the old FG style handles. I think they are more forgiving and easier to shoot. Even when I don't cut a shelf, I round the handle to within 1/4" of center shot on most of my bows.
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I think it's really critical that arrow spines are both correct and consistent for a non-centershot bow. Much less so for the centershot.
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I don't think it's a matter of centershot. I think it's more a fact that the bow's heavy handle is easier to hold on target and harder to flinch on release. If your arrows are perfectly matched to the bow, then it would just be that the bow is more stable and the fact that fiberglass can be held back for 100 seconds or .01 of a second the speed won't change.
We have a 58" Kudu, but it's too short for a good clean release- especially at my 29.5" draw. Likewise, the arrows we have aren't matched for it so it doesn't shoot any better. Actually, I bareshaft tune all my selfbows, filing down the arrow pass so the match up is perfect. And so far none of them are centershot :)
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The more bows I make the closer to centershot I seem to make them. Even the D bows are getting arrow passes slightly cut in and then built out. The re/de's are getting 1/4 shelfs cut in. The more center shot the wider varity of spine the bows seem to handle. The D bows seem to group better when I cant the bow.
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A bow is a bow.. If it bends and looses an arrow I will shoot it.. I don't think my self bows shoot any better or worse than my traditional bows.. In fact one of the simplest most primitive self-bows is my favorite shooter. In a hunting situation I would say that some hunters should stick to compounds and re-curves, I have seen too many hunters lately wounding animal after animal simply because they want to hunt "primitive"! Without extensive practice and a good knowledge of your equipment and it's performance there is far more chance of lost game with primitive equipment.. penetration, jumped string etc.. don't get me wrong, I have taken every critter within my home range with primitive equipment.. It can be done.. Just saying that too often lately it seems that the quest for a primitive harvest can override the simple essence of the hunt.. which is in my opinion ethical harvest through honorable hunting practices..I will get off my soapbox now. ;D ;) simply put I believe there is no real difference between primitive and traditionl bows in a hunting situation..other than the obvious advantage of traditional "Glass".. being slightly faster and less likely to have malfunction.. like breakage and warping on long wilderness adventures..And the primitive bows having the advantage of being smoother, quieter, and filled with big medicine and the romance of smooth wood bending to your will. it is a personal choice , not a public one!Hawk
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Mike, I appreciate your views. Let me throw in that it isn't the primitive or traditional bows that are the concern. It is the choice of the hunter to practice and become proficient. According to statistics, traditional shooters have a much higher shot recovery rate than compound shooters. I believe this is because we love shooting much more than hunting. Because of this we spend a lot of time shooting because we want to shoot, not just practicing for the hunt. Because of this time spent shooting we become more proficient with the equipment and more aware of our abilities. Until we know our limits, not the bows, we are going to loose game.
Having said that, I think a center shot bow is more forgiving, not better, just like long limbs and mass placement make a difference. That is why competition shooters of both compounds and trad equipment have stabilizers and other mass altering attachments along with vibration dampening attachments. Many of these attachments are simply to get the feel of the other bows back as close to the primitive bow as they can. :o
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Well said Justin.. My son just came upstairs very upset... he is getting ready for some bunny huntin.. and his self-bow blew up when he strung it... what are the odds .. he has shot thousands of arrows through the bow and it just snapped mid limb.. guess it will be a good opportunity for him to build his own.. ;D :o
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Well said Justin.. My son just came upstairs very upset... he is getting ready for some bunny huntin.. and his self-bow blew up when he strung it... what are the odds .. he has shot thousands of arrows through the bow and it just snapped mid limb.. guess it will be a good opportunity for him to build his own.. ;D :o
Odds are pretty good from my experience. It isn't shooting the bow that hurts it, most times it is something we did while in storage. ;)
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I think he over extended the top limb while stringing it.. great learning lesson..
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Here's my criteria for judging a bow be it traditional or primitive, based off how it shoots, feels in the hand, looks, and works:
1.) Me like!
2.) Ugh, me no like!
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LOL ;D ;D ;)
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Here's my criteria for judging a bow be it traditional or primitive, based off how it shoots, feels in the hand, looks, and works:
1.) Me like!
2.) Ugh, me no like!
NICE :) ;) ;D :D
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i got selfbows and glass bows i like em both. center shot is a plus, also glass is a plus. bit i like my sticks.
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I shoot selfbows but like them all,I do think the glass bows,at least most of them are a little more forgiving and a little easier to tune to the arrow.Hawk I have seen more selfbows broke or excessive set put in them from stringing than any other reason,that is why unless someone is really aware of what they are doing to the limb when stringing I always suggest using a stringer.Most don't like them,to slow but it will help keep the bow in better shape.I kick string most of my bows but on the heaver ones I use a stringer. :)
Pappy
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I kick string most of my bows but on the heaver ones I use a stringer. :)
Pappy
what is kick stringing, Pappy? ??? -josh
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Well I like the self bows best just because and will continue hunting with them exclusively, but it was fun having a very good shooting session just for a confidence builder. Any way have been shooting the self bows well the last couple of days by drilling on form, follow thru, and release. A poor day of shooting still beats a good day of working. Kenneth
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Josh ,it is setting the tip of the bow in between the sole of your shoe ,then pull on the handle
and push the top limb while pulling on the bottom and slide the string up and on.Some may call it push/pull.A lot of people do it that way and it works you just have to be aware of what you are
doing to the top or bottom limb,I have seen a lot of folks over stress one while the other not bending just to get the string on.Sorry Little John not trying to hijack your thread. ;) :)
Pappy
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cool thanks Pappy just never heard it called that before ...and sorry Little John not trying to hijack either! :) -josh
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Primitive is Traditional init?
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Primitive is Traditional init?
:-X
I am not allowed to comment on this or any other Controversial Subject anymore..I must be a Bad Boy..................... :'(
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Primitive is Traditional init?
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I am not allowed to comment on this or any other Controversial Subject anymore..I must be a Bad Boy..................... :'(
huh ???
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;) :) :)
Pappy
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Here's my criteria for judging a bow be it traditional or primitive, based off how it shoots, feels in the hand, looks, and works:
1.) Me like!
2.) Ugh, me no like!
;D i have six bows, 2 of which are wooden and the other four are glass. i have only ever shot two of the glass bows, and only like one of them. one of the wood bows is a really poorly made elb i got as my first wood bow several years ago, and i prolly shot that thing more than anything els i own. the other is that awsome little snake bow made by woodstick, which i have also shot ALOT. anyway of the six, i like that little osage snake, and my pearson hunter recurve the best. ;D
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I don't think this conversation is as much about material as it is "traditional bow" style handles. Handles that can be duplicated on most bows.
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I don't think this conversation is as much about material as it is "traditional bow" style handles. Handles that can be duplicated on most bows.
Pretty much :D. I think the other thread did a good job of concluding fiberglass only adds a little "knock about" durability, like weather or really long bracing.
Traxx- yes, primitive is a type of traditional, but traditional doesn't always mean primitive.
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Actually,
The word Traditional,is not traditional,in the grand scheem of things.It is a relatively new term,that only came into use,after the invent of the compound bow.I personally know people,who remember the use of FG as backing and in laminate construction,as being a "New Fangled" and modern tech invention,when it came to bowyer use.So,going off of the Traditional definition of the word,id say the "Primitive" bow would stand as the Traditional bow,as it has been used far longer than all the other Neo traditional styled bows that people referr to as traditional nowdays.Also,ive seen a few "Traditional" bows that were way more "Primitive" in their construction than many "Primitive" bows i have handled. ;D
That clear things up any?LOLOLOLOLOL
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Once again we are thinking material. I think traditional is style not material. Things like longbow, recurve, flatbow, etc. that were traditional styles made and shot for thousands of years. Thus a primitive bow can be traditional, but a traditional isn't necessarily primitive.
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Once again we are thinking material.
Thats not the only point for many either.Method of construction is a point as well.Severall of these "Traditional" bows are made by methods and materials that are 10 yrs old or less.Cant really call that Traditional,by its true definition now can we?For that matter,can we really call a Primitive bow,"Primitive",if its made with modern material and by modern methods?Example=A selfbow,made with store bought lumber,fashioned with modern electrical power tools and finished with modern chemical based finishes.Pretty Neo Primitive,if ya ask me.I know this topic has been beaten to death through the years,on these sites.Hence the semi comical sarcasm of my previous post.I do feel that lables have been thrown around recklessly over the last few years leading to some confusion though.I have had some reservation about the term Primitive,due to the negative conotations associated by many,toward the term,this day n age.My take on the definitions,for what its worth,is this...Primitive bows are by the true definition,Traditional.Traditional bows as they are called,really fall under the definition of Modern or Contemporary Long bows and recurves.The other modern bows,well,i dont consider them bows at all,by the true definition of a Bow.LOL.It really doesnt matter all that much though,if ya really think about it.As long as your havein fun with what your doing,then lables be damned. ;D
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Once again we are thinking material.
Thats not the only point for many either.Method of construction is a point as well.Severall of these "Traditional" bows are made by methods and materials that are 10 yrs old or less.Cant really call that Traditional,by its true definition now can we?For that matter,can we really call a Primitive bow,"Primitive",if its made with modern material and by modern methods?Example=A selfbow,made with store bought lumber,fashioned with modern electrical power tools and finished with modern chemical based finishes.Pretty Neo Primitive,if ya ask me.I know this topic has been beaten to death through the years,on these sites.Hence the semi comical sarcasm of my previous post.I do feel that lables have been thrown around recklessly over the last few years leading to some confusion though.I have had some reservation about the term Primitive,due to the negative conotations associated by many,toward the term,this day n age.My take on the definitions,for what its worth,is this...Primitive bows are by the true definition,Traditional.Traditional bows as they are called,really fall under the definition of Modern or Contemporary Long bows and recurves.The other modern bows,well,i dont consider them bows at all,by the true definition of a Bow.LOL.It really doesnt matter all that much though,if ya really think about it.As long as your havein fun with what your doing,then lables be damned. ;D
You make a good point. Truth be told, I don't care what it is... archery is archery. I'm a fan no matter what. :)
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i agree kegan, as long as it aint a compound, i like it!
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Once again we are thinking material.
Thats not the only point for many either.Method of construction is a point as well.Severall of these "Traditional" bows are made by methods and materials that are 10 yrs old or less.Cant really call that Traditional,by its true definition now can we?For that matter,can we really call a Primitive bow,"Primitive",if its made with modern material and by modern methods?Example=A selfbow,made with store bought lumber,fashioned with modern electrical power tools and finished with modern chemical based finishes.Pretty Neo Primitive,if ya ask me.I know this topic has been beaten to death through the years,on these sites.Hence the semi comical sarcasm of my previous post.I do feel that lables have been thrown around recklessly over the last few years leading to some confusion though.I have had some reservation about the term Primitive,due to the negative conotations associated by many,toward the term,this day n age.My take on the definitions,for what its worth,is this...Primitive bows are by the true definition,Traditional.Traditional bows as they are called,really fall under the definition of Modern or Contemporary Long bows and recurves.The other modern bows,well,i dont consider them bows at all,by the true definition of a Bow.LOL.It really doesnt matter all that much though,if ya really think about it.As long as your havein fun with what your doing,then lables be damned. ;D
::)
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i agree kegan, as long as it aint a compound, i like it!
Naw, if a compounder will put up with my sticks I'll put up with his wheels ;)!
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Naw, if a compounder will put up with my sticks I'll put up with his wheels ;)!
I am with you there too...I enjoy all Phases of Archery...but the more Simple it is....the less Chances of something going wrong with the Equipment...thats my Outlook on it.....
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"Traditional" has always been a fun topic.
I've seen some severly heated debates on this in the past. Even been in some. :-X
I do think centershot helps. Had a Osage character bow that pretty much placed the arrow on the centerline of the limb tips and it shot like the arrows had a homing system in them (well, sorta). It was sweet.
Anyways, I've an old Martin round wheel compound that I shoot barebow with from time to time.
I shoot it off a homemade shelf.
One time at the range, not too long ago, a couple guys standing behind me were talking.
I overheard one say to the other, "Look at that guy shooting a old Traditional Compound!" :o
Had to stop and see what they were refering to. ::)
I guess "Traditional" is like beauty? In the eye of the beholder. 8)
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Archery is so neat you just can't help yourself from embracing the numerous branches of it. Not that I'd ever see the sense paying oodles of money for a bow when I can just build my own- especially since I get bored and distracted so easily ;).
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Very interesting discussion.
One other aspect that I didn't see offered, it the length of time the person making the determination has been in archery.
To and old duff like me (I've been shooting archery since 1951) Fiberglass Laminates and Aluminum bows are the threshold of "New fangled".
I grew in archery that used different vernacular and considered the wooden long bow as traditional (real) archery.
Therefore, to me Primitive would include the bows of the type made by Native Americans of the 1800s and earlier.
You also can't define a bow by its efficiency. Some of the Turkish Horn bows were very efficient. Would you call them Traditional or Primitive??? Lots of gray areas here.
Where as, most of the younger archers have grown up in a world where the new fangled block and tackle bow was just a different type of bow.
I can see where they could referr to an older round cam compound by using the term traditional..... And, maybe the long bow as primitive.
Its all a matter of perspective.
Here is a picture of the next generation of "new fangled" arrow shooter....
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t175/SteveCover/Shooting/Air%20Guns/ArrowStealth.jpg)
A nockless aluminum arrow is fitted over a tube in the barrel.... The makers claim 400 FPS with compressed air...
Who knows, maybe my grandson will call all arrowshooting devices that use stored muscle power as "Traditional or even Primitive Bows".
To sum up, to paraphrase another member's post, it is nice that archery has so many different tangents a person can explore, the bottom line is enjoyment of the sport.
Most people view from their own experience. This includes their interests, training and length of time in that field.
It is really as unimportant as the "Traditional" term for arrow stiffness testing being known a Spline, where the common "Present Day" term is Spine....
Tempest in a tea pot... Primitive... Cave Man Archery?? -> Any bow that doesn't use cams and levers??
I just can't see where there should be this much debate. Archery is for Everbody...
My 2 Cents
Steve
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It is really as unimportant as the "Traditional" term for arrow stiffness testing being known a Spline, where the common "Present Day" term is Spine....
I hafta respectfully dissagree with this statement.The Term SPLINE has never,to my knowledge been used to define the stiffness of an arrow spine.Spline,is a inserted reinforcement to the nock and or point end of an arrow shaft.I have read where many confuse the two terms and that confusion has for the most part been a Present day misconception and not a traditional term or a correct one.
Sorry,but this is a pet peave of mine.LOL
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Traxx,
Guess you don't know the history on that Spline/spine comment. It is obviously a pet peeve of his as well. And he does qoute older texts with the use of spline...although in my opinion how things were spelled in the middle ages is irrelevant especially when you consider that the spelling of english words was subject to the whim of the writer well after the American Revolution.
But I do agree with his statements of perspective. And thanks for that picture of the arrow shooting machine Steve. My Friend Frank and I were just asking each other when that was going to happen...didn't realize it already had.
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I apologise,
I should have used the word Correctly,at the end of that second sentence.Are you saying,that if printed in Text,that it must be true?At one time,some printed in Text that the world was flat as well.LOL
People took liberties in their writeing back then as well as today.Just cause someone wants to call an apple an orange,it doesnt make it so.
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Traxx,
I reread my post and I think I wrote it in a way that might have been easily taken wrong. I didn't mean you didn't know your history, I meant you must know the history of Steve and his issues with Spine/Spline :) sorry if you took it wrong.
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No worries Nate,
Its all in Fun most of the time,around here.LOL
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I agree use a stringer.It does put exture stress on you top limb.I also build my bows center shot or as close as the stave will let me.The closer to center shot the less critial spine is.As far as weight this is why recurves shoot better at longer distances.Not there better built just the heavyness makes it more stable in the hand.
Isn't getting close the reason we hunt.If not we'd all shoot compounds at 80 yards.
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I agree use a stringer.It does put exture stress on you top limb.I also build my bows center shot or as close as the stave will let me.The closer to center shot the less critial spine is.As far as weight this is why recurves shoot better at longer distances.Not there better built just the heavyness makes it more stable in the hand.
Isn't getting close the reason we hunt.If not we'd all shoot compounds at 80 yards.
even with wheels i cant make 80 yrd shots ;D
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Looking at that arrow gun got me to thinking. One thing that would seperate all of them is if there was no longer access to the materials and technology of the Compound bow, compressed air arrow gun, or the fibreglass bow. If any of them broke and you could not get resin, meta,l machined parts or nylon pulley's and string, you would be screwed if you had to have it to survive. If a self bow broke you could make another one from numerous species of trees and manufacture your on string from organic material, vegetable or animal.
And someone said on here once before, "If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?"
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Eddie, i like your line in qoutes at the end of your last post
mind if i steal it ??? ;)
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Go ahead, Tim, Forgot who I stole it from. ;D
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Archery is pretty much a journey I think ,for sure these days,some who start out on wheels will feel the call to a more trad bow,some who enjoy it will continue on to selhbows and such.Alot will be happy with sights,releases and so on and miss the spirit and enjoyment of it all.Take the guys who blow the dust of there compounds a few weeks before season for instance but the manufacturers want the sales so they give them what they want to be successful with a minum amont of effort.
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It is really as unimportant as the "Traditional" term for arrow stiffness testing being known a Spline, where the common "Present Day" term is Spine....
I hafta respectfully dissagree with this statement.The Term SPLINE has never,to my knowledge been used to define the stiffness of an arrow spine.Spline,is a inserted reinforcement to the nock and or point end of an arrow shaft.I have read where many confuse the two terms and that confusion has for the most part been a Present day misconception and not a traditional term or a correct one.
Sorry,but this is a pet peave of mine.LOL
Sorry I missed this earlier.
Spline is the correct term for the method used to determine arrow stiffness.
Here is part of an explanation I gave on another forum.
The testing of arrow stiffness by measurement of deflection (bend) under stress of a weight is called spline testing.
The term goes back to the middle ages where architects were able to accurately duplicate a specific bend shape by using rods (called splines) of a known stiffness.
These splines were suspended at a standard distance by two supports and a standard weight was hung from the center to cause the spline rod to bend to the desired arc.
By varying the stiffness of the spline rod, distance between support points and the suspended weights, almost any reasonable arc could be reproduced.
Because Medieval bows had no center shot cut out of the side of the bow, the string would apply force to the center line of the bow, while the arrow was supported on the side of the bow causing an off line surge of force on the arrow not in line with the arrow's center of gravity.
This causes the arrow to bend...."Archer's Paradox".
Different width bow handles and different draw weights produce different amounts of archers paradox.
The archers of the middle ages recognized this and needed a system to evaluate arrow stiffness to match to each bow.
They used the splining methods of the architects of the period to evaluate the stiffness of their arrows.
To spline test an arrow shaft, it is placed on a jig with support pegs 26" apart, and a 2 # weight is suspended from the center of the two pegs.
The deflection is measured to determine the stiffness of the arrow. Thus, the actual test to determine an arrow's stiffness is a Spline test, not a "Spine" test.
Here is a letter about medieval armor strength that references arrow spline:
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Date: 27 May 90 12:28:28 GMT
Organization: Society for Creative Anachronism
Arrows versus arrow:
My lord husband is a maker both of chainmail and a shooter of bows. He conducted the following experiment.
He draped his chain mail hauberk over a six inch thick foam archery target when the target was still new and shot it.
The chainmail is made of 12 gauge spring tempered fully hardened stainless steel with and interior diameter of 1/4 inch. It is the densest, heaviest chainmail I have seen in the SCA. It is butted only, not welded or riveted.
An arrow fired form a 45 # recurve at a range of about fifteen yards penetrated the chainmail like it wasn't there, pierced the target foam, and pierced the back of the hauberk. The arrow stuck out about five inches behind the shoulder.
The arrow was a SCA legal wooden shaft. My husband was much impressed, and as a reminder of the lethal power of archery, he repaired the hauberk with bronze rings to mark the place.
Interestingly, the armor suffered little damage. One ring was deformed to the point it had to be replaced, the other rings around it merely were reconnected when the new ring was inserted.
The arrow was undamaged by being drawn through the target and armor, if you'd like to try this yourself.
I think the longbow used in the previous reported experiment against plate mail must have been rather light. also, do note that "poundage" of bows does not produce the same amount of force in spite of the same weight. A bow that is sluggish in firing and produces a lot of hand shock (a typical bow) looses a great deal of its efficiency by diverting energy from the arrow to the archer. A bow with a smooth release transmits energy to the arrow very efficiently, thereby allowing greater speed and penetration. It is quite possible for an efficient 35 pound bow to do more damage than an inefficient 50 pound bow. This is just another reason why you should by the best quality equipment you can afford--and try it out before buying it.
Another factor are the arrows. Most arrows are splined to within about 5-6 pounds, however in practice a lot of arrows may very by considerably more. This will definitely affect your accuracy, and possibly your penetration. A few perfectionists in the SCA spline within one pound. This gives a much closer grouping, and much greater pinpoint accuracy. Further, tips and shafts can very significantly in the amount they weight. Again, a properly splined batch might vary as much as 7o grams from one another-and so effect your accuracy. The heavier ones are going to hit lower and slower, the lighter ones will be higher and faster. Perfectionists allow only a 10 gram variations among arrows. The more consistent the arrow, the tighter and more accurate the grouping. The lighter the arrow, the further it will fly.
My husband has a variety of arrows. He has aluminum and wooden shafts, both with feather fletching. The arrows he has by a master fletcher are reproductions of the Mary Rose arrows. They fly sweet! While shooting at the clout shoot at last Pennsic, he was amazed to discover he was putting them to the 150 yard target, not the 100 as he was trying. I will be happy to provide the name of our fletcher (he does mail order) to any interested archer. At fifty dollars the dozen, they are very reasonably priced arrows.
This are some of the basic things SCA archers can consider when buying equipment: good equipment is a joy to use, and makes learning easier. If you want to get really into archery, custom made pre-stressed bows and other wonders await. (A custom made bow is not just one you special order, it is fit to your personal measurements and shooting style. It is designed to maximize your shooting, no one Else's)
Yours in service to archery
Awilda Halfdane
bright hills, atlantia
It isn't hard to find the term spline if you do any reading on the Middle Ages. I can provide as many references as you want
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Traditional archers always referred to arrow stiffness testing as spline testing. And, why not? The term goes back to the middle ages.
Then in the mid 1960s Allen invented the block and tackle shooter. It's ability to reduce the actual hold weight attracted a whole new group into the arrow shooting ranks.
Unfortunately, very few of these new comers were interested in archery tradition or vernacular, just the enjoyment of shooting arrows....
Someone around then, not knowing or careing about the history of the term, thought that "spline" was a missprint and started using the term "spine".
So, "Spline" has been bastardized into "Spine"....
Use whatever vernacular you want.... Only understand what is actually the correct term..
Funny this is one of my pet peeves too.
Take Care,
Steve
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lol ive noticed you argueing that point for about as long as youve been on this forum. ;D
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Verily and forsooth. :)
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Yep, the exact same argument. I have a dead horse, anyone want to beat it. How about we argue the correct spelling of the color grey/gray.
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Yep, the exact same argument. I have a dead horse, anyone want to beat it. How about we argue the correct spelling of the color grey/gray.
Heck ya Justin I will take a few whacks at dat horse ;D
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That horse should be nice and tender by the time it gets to the glue factory... or barbecue ;)
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You ever eaten beaten Equine....ain't too bad....tastes better than Beef....so just keep whackin dat Mare....and We can all have some Tasty B-B-Q....... >:D
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Crap! I thought he was on Vacation or something? ???
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I have some horse leather and its the best leather I've ever played with. You guys beat the horse and I'll tan it ;D
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lol ive noticed you argueing that point for about as long as youve been on this forum. ;D
It actually isn't important what you call arrow stiffness testing as long as everyone is on the same page.
However, traditionally, dating back to the early middle ages, it has been spline.
Are you in doubt about this fact?
It does appear that I'm beating a dead horse, but, it one of my pet peeves.
If you don't care, let it go....
Best Wishes,
Steve
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Are you in doubt about this fact?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :o!!!!!!
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now with most langauages the spelling of a word will differ over time
even the pronuciation may stay the say along with the the meaning
so are you sure that "spline" wasnt realy meant as "spine"
as for me i have always refered to it as spine and always will
started shooting bows before there wheels on them,so no i am not new to it
it has always been refered to as "spine" as long as i have been shooting bows and as long as my uncle,whom taught me to shoot bows,has been shooting them too
and hes pushing 70 yrs old now,so i would say spine has to be the correct term
there,that was my last few whacks at the horse.
now lets grill it and eat it ;D
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It does appear that I'm beating a dead horse, but, it one of my pet peeves.
If you don't care, let it go....
Best Wishes,
Steve
We understand that you believe that is the correct word, and we would like to "let it go" but someone keeps bringing it back up.
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now with most langauages the spelling of a word will differ over time
even the pronuciation may stay the say along with the the meaning
so are you sure that "spline" wasnt realy meant as "spine"
as for me i have always refered to it as spine and always will
started shooting bows before there wheels on them,so no i am not new to it
it has always been refered to as "spine" as long as i have been shooting bows and as long as my uncle,whom taught me to shoot bows,has been shooting them too
and hes pushing 70 yrs old now,so i would say spine has to be the correct term
there,that was my last few whacks at the horse.
now lets grill it and eat it ;D
The flexable rods that the Architects and Engineers used in the Middle Ages were called "Splines".
The testing of the stiffness of arrows is a direct application of their splining methods.
You will also find that "spline" is used in mathematics and enginering too.
I'm sure that spline is the proper term.
I started shooting archery back in 1951.... I'm an old duff too.
My last kicks at the horse too.
The common usage is "Spine" and I know what is really meant, so we can move on.
Best Wishes,
Steve
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You must be typing in Braille. If you haven't noticed since you went on Vacation last time. Nobody Gives a Rat's @$$ how you think it should be spelled. 900, 999,996 people think it should be spelled SPINE. And you are the only one that think's maybe, some, Semi- Illiterate person in the Middleages, might be the only person that knows what he is talking about.
PM me and I'll tell you what my Pet Peeve is.
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A visual aid:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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:D :D ;D :D :D
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Wow......................am I staying outta this One.......................... :P
L.M.F.A.O.R.O.T.F.S.M.F.P
>:D
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You must be typing in Braille. If you haven't noticed since you went on Vacation last time. Nobody Gives a Rat's @$$ how you think it should be spelled. 900, 999,996 people think it should be spelled SPINE. And you are the only one that think's maybe, some, Semi- Illiterate person in the Middleages, might be the only person that knows what he is talking about.
PM me and I'll tell you what my Pet Peeve is.
As I stated much earlier it isn't that important.
Spine, spline... as long as we know what we are talking about... Who cares.... It seems that you do.
I casually mentioned that Spline is the traditional term that dates back to the middle ages and a get a ration.... Why?
When I was told that Spline was incorrect, I calmly provided evidence that it is the term used dating back from the middle ages.
I don't give a rat what anyone else calls it. I just call it spline.... That is what all the archers called it when I started shooting 49 years ago.
I'm much more interested in you opinions on equipment and technique than getting in a pissing match over something so unimportant.
Let it go.
Best Wishes,
Steve
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A visual aid:
Nice chart...
However, there is an error in it.
When I casually mentioned that spline is the traditional term, I was flooded with responces....
Why didn't everyone say, "He uses Spline instead of Spine.. OK next subject."....
So, it seems that 900,999,996 People seem to care if I use Spline or not...
This is just too trivial to go on for this long.
Thanks for your participation,
Steve
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Steve, we're just pokin' at you and having a little fun with your pet peeve. We're easily amused, and you seem to be on a quixotic self-appointed mission from the Almighty to correct our ignorance of arrow terminology by any means necessary, up to and including deadly force. :) You have a total of 66 posts on this forum, and it seems like 67 of them are connected to the "spline" thing. There's other things to talk about. Stick around awhile and you'll see that we love to poke a little fun at each other, it's nothing personal. Your observation that this is too trivial to keep rehashing is right on the money, it's just not that big of a deal. My arrows would fly pretty much the same no matter what I called the measure of their flexibility.
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ooooo! i got an idea, lets just all start calling it "measure of arrow flexability" that way noone will have anything to argue about. ::)
cant ya see it? "have some cane to trade, they should measure of arrow flexability out to around 55-60 pounds" :P
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Spline-spine what a peculiar place to draw a line in the sand,Ive looked at many spine charts.
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I think the horse is sufficiently ground to hamburger. Can we please eat it now :)?
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Actually, when Marco Polo went to China, he brought some arrows with him to see if he could get a bunch made for a good price. Being a merchant (and not an archer) used the term "sprine" to describe the "spring" of the arrow shaft when flexed. But since they had a hard time pronouncing the "r" in sprine, they called it "spline" and Marco Polo, being the wise negotiator, let it go.
That's what I heard, anyway. ;)
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Steve, we're just pokin' at you and having a little fun with your pet peeve. We're easily amused, and you seem to be on a quixotic self-appointed mission from the Almighty to correct our ignorance of arrow terminology by any means necessary, up to and including deadly force. :) You have a total of 66 posts on this forum, and it seems like 67 of them are connected to the "spline" thing. There's other things to talk about. Stick around awhile and you'll see that we love to poke a little fun at each other, it's nothing personal. Your observation that this is too trivial to keep rehashing is right on the money, it's just not that big of a deal. My arrows would fly pretty much the same no matter what I called the measure of their flexibility.
Thanks for the post,
<<< you seem to be on a quixotic self-appointed mission from the Almighty to correct our ignorance of arrow terminology >>> ??? :-\
Ignorance of arrow terminology?........... I see... So that's the rub.
Naturally, that is not my intention... Sorry, some took it that way.
I'm not trying to "change" anyone's use of the term Spine.
It's what you grew up with..... Spine is the current terminology....
Nobody is insisting on changing any vernacular to use..
I choose to use the "traditional" term, everybody else on the list uses the "modern" term. Both are correct usage.... I'm sure that we all know what we are talking about.
Hopefully we have buried this subject...
Take Care,
Steve
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Actually, when Marco Polo went to China, he brought some arrows with him to see if he could get a bunch made for a good price. Being a merchant (and not an archer) used the term "sprine" to describe the "spring" of the arrow shaft when flexed. But since they had a hard time pronouncing the "r" in sprine, they called it "spline" and Marco Polo, being the wise negotiator, let it go.That's what I heard, anyway. ;)
Clever interpritation of history... ;D :D
Steve
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Thanks for the post,
<<< you seem to be on a quixotic self-appointed mission from the Almighty to correct our ignorance of arrow terminology >>> ??? :-\
Ignorance of arrow terminology?........... I see... So that's the rub.
Naturally, that is not my intention... Sorry, some took it that way.
I'm not trying to "change" anyone's use of the term Spine.
It's what you grew up with..... Spine is the current terminology....
Nobody is insisting on changing any vernacular to use..
I choose to use the "traditional" term, everybody else on the list uses the "modern" term. Both are correct usage.... I'm sure that we all know what we are talking about.
Hopefully we have buried this subject...
Take Care,
Steve
No rub, just think that it's a silly thing to worry about so much and so seriously. Like I said, if Fred Bear and Jay Massey were happy with saying "spine," it's good enough for me, too.
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tomatoe tomato
potatoe potato
mechanic techinican
janitor custodial engineer
splie spine
hmmmmmmmmmmmm this list could go along way ;D
im hungry,lets eat ;D ;D ;D
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im hungry,lets eat ;D ;D ;D
I think it's cold by now :D!
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Steve -
"I choose to use the "traditional" term, everybody else on the list uses the "modern" term. Both are correct usage.... I'm sure that we all know what we are talking about.
"
If that is true,,, shouldn't you be using "fteve" instead of Steve? ;)
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Steve -
"I choose to use the "traditional" term, everybody else on the list uses the "modern" term. Both are correct usage.... I'm sure that we all know what we are talking about.
" If that is true,,, shouldn't you be using "fteve" instead of Steve? ;)
Actually, my name is Stephen... Pronounced in the Danish style using a hard "e" after the t.
It is easier for me just to go as "Steve" rather than keep explaining the proper pronunciation of my name.
Thanks for the concession about the Spline/Spine vernacular, ;D
Steve