Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: tpoof on March 21, 2007, 12:28:46 pm

Title: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on March 21, 2007, 12:28:46 pm
Well, been looking at the sister stave of that sinew backed recurve I finished and thought I'd try something a bit different.
Was going to build an overbuilt bow for hard and carefree use, this stave had some wonkey bends that I thought I'd remove with some dry heat and put it on a caul
The bending to the reflex went well, toasted the dickens out of her, pulled it off the caul some few hours later when all felt cool to the touch, most of the reflex was lost, just sprang back to its original statemore or less ???

So I thought if I can induce possibly a bit of recurve in the limb tips, flip the tips some if you will, started to put more heat to it and slowly bend in the tips, when all of a sudden CRACK! :o, there goes the limb! Yep she's toast all right! :'( :D

Well I can salvage some 50" of stave from her and will probably make a short draw rabbit bow of her,,
Chopped it out to its new profile and went with a arched belly this time just to see what would happen, so far so good.
Tillering is done now and I'm still unsure on just what I will do with this stick next,,
Still would like to try to induce a bit of reflex as tillering produced some 1 1/4" of set, maybe take two on tip flipping
but I'm thinkin of steam this time  lol ;D
might even sinew back this as well, got lots and sure had fun doing that last project!!

Not sure when I'll be able to finish this one though as I've just been called back to work
( I'm a carpenter who works on building dams and bridges,,mostly forming work for concrete)
I'll be gone most of the spring, summer and fall and usually only get winters to work on my bows
so I'm not sure when the next post will be
just wanted to share my mishaps as well as my successes,, :)
You've all been very helpfull and generous with your advise and I appreciate it much
I've learned alot from these pages on PA and look forward to many more bows to come

Well, heres some pics of my toasted bow!
see if I can get some tillering pics up later today..
Thanks again all
tpoof

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Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on March 21, 2007, 12:32:35 pm
Here's a few more ,, the mishap,,, ::)  yeesh ;D ;D

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Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: DanaM on March 21, 2007, 12:39:48 pm
Someone on here said"if ya ain't breakin yer not makin" so ya have the breakin part down now on to the makin ;D
I basically had the same thing happen with a piece of maple the other day. I was trying to recurve the tips with dry heat and got a bit greedy and snapped her. So I cut the ends off and backed her with hichory in a Perry reflex, its now 52" haven't got her bending yet but soon.
Sucks ya can't work on bows till winter, I feel yer pain man.

DanaM
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Pappy on March 21, 2007, 12:46:43 pm
Sorry about your luck tpoof,but it sounds like you made a good save.I can't tell how many times I have had that happen.I guess what the say is true ,if you ant breaking um you ant making um. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on March 21, 2007, 12:48:25 pm
Haha ya DanaM I did hear that just the other day! ;D ;D ;D ::) maybe shouldn't have spoke too loud eh!  ;D

Here's a few more on the tillering tree.. and someclose ups,, prolly too many pics :-\ kinda carried away  :D

Some at brace, full draw should be close and after full draw..:)

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Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Pappy on March 21, 2007, 12:55:26 pm
Looks pretty good,looks like the right limb is bending a little much out of the fad and not enough
through the mid limb.Just an observation. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Hillbilly on March 21, 2007, 12:56:08 pm
Sorry about the mishap, but mis happens. Looks like you're salvaging quite a nice lil' bow out of it, though.
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on March 21, 2007, 01:11:57 pm
Yes Pappy, I believe your right ;D, you know its hard too see it without a camera snapshot! If I decide to sinew back it I'll attend to the tiller more then,, thanks though,, I never really looked too hard at it but now that its pointed out it jumps right out at me! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: GregB on March 21, 2007, 02:31:37 pm

I also broke one a few weeks back, attempting one of Ryano's recurves. Got one limb recurved and broke the second one. Took to long from steam to trying to get it clamped. I also posted the mishap, nothing wrong with letting folks know we're all human, huh?

Be careful out there working! ;)
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Dustybaer on March 21, 2007, 03:50:30 pm
just out of curiosity, did you use oil while you heated the belly?  also, how many days between heating and tillering?
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Ryano on March 21, 2007, 04:39:01 pm
Elm makes excelent short bows! ;)
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tom sawyer on March 21, 2007, 04:46:52 pm
You really need to string it, you can't tell what it looks like with a long string.  Even your long string is longer than necessary.  It changes the string angle bigtime, and puts more stress on the inner limbs.  When you string it, the outer limbs are gonna look a lot bendier.

Sorry to hear about the heating accident, stuff happens though and you look like you've salvaged a nice little bow out of the deal.
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on March 21, 2007, 05:26:12 pm
Thanks Greg, Dusty, Hillbilly,    hopefully Ryan :D ;),
Tom thats a good point I never even considered! definately will do the short string, its time. :)
I use that string for all my tillering,,, one size fits all, or so I thought?  ::) I'm alot greener than the wood I work on.lol

steaming in curves as we speak,,,
and no I never used any oil, on reflection should have, ,prolly dried the limbs out way to much and made them brittle, had the limbs close to tiller then did the bend attempt
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tom sawyer on March 21, 2007, 06:00:13 pm
Yep the rule is (who makes these rules anyway?), you use a long string just barely long enough to get it on the nocks.  Then when you have bent the bow to the equivalent of brace height and its bending reasonably smoothly, you go to a short string.

No go forth and sin no more.

Also, useth the annointing oil oneth the white woodeth.
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on March 21, 2007, 06:13:29 pm
Thanks for the tips Tom! ;D ;DI shall pay heed. I shall now go forth... prolly come in fifth,,, ;)
You know thats the first I've heard of that,,  I guess a Flemish with a timber hitch would work alright??

I shall adhear to the oileth on the woodeth as well next time  ;D
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tom sawyer on March 21, 2007, 06:40:34 pm
Yes my long string is a really heavy linen string that is extra long, and I use the timber hitch on one side.  That better mimics the string angles you get on drqawing by short string, but even then you'll find your outer third of limbs will look a lot bendierwhen you go to the short string.  I don't usually even pull the bow on the first stringing or two, just run a straightedge down the bely, make a few marks and let it down.
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Pappy on March 22, 2007, 08:16:10 am
That is the way I do it also Lennie.I make my tillering string just long enough to tie
 the timber hitch,and as soon as I get it to a shot brace I do,It really has made a different since I started doing it that way as far and the tiller and hitting the weight I want.One of the
guys in the club last night  had one on the tillering stick while I was working on Hillbilly's
and I wasn't watching him.He had a long string and though he had a hinge on one limb and
a flat area in the other.He kept on and by the time I saw what he was doing it was to late.
I could brace it very easy by hand ,It looked a lot better braced but the weight was gone.I just
get the worst spots out and then brace it.I know some folks use the long string way out and if it works for them,thats fine but for me I want it braced as soon as I can get a string on it and then go to the tiller board. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 22, 2007, 11:45:56 am
It is a shame. You don't want to be doing any recurving with dry heat, reflexing yes but no recurves.  Looking good so far
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: George Tsoukalas on March 22, 2007, 12:30:39 pm
LOL, Dana. I said that.
"If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin'!"
I also say,
"If it ain't broke don't fix it!"
But I didn't originate that quote.
Someone once wrote that more than 2 inches of set is excessive. Consequently, beginners are devastated when they get 2.25 inches of set.
If you're happy with the bow enjoy it. Jawge
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Pappy on March 22, 2007, 12:49:13 pm
You are right Jawge,it just kills me to here someone tell someone that is just getting started that the bow is no good or they didn't do a good job because they had a little set,They shoot just fine
and maybe even better with a little set. :)
    Pappy
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Ryano on March 22, 2007, 02:19:22 pm
Set hapens !  :P
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Dustybaer on March 22, 2007, 03:12:33 pm
ryan, i'll have to remember that  ;D
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on March 22, 2007, 06:34:27 pm
Geez guys,, is there ever a day when a fella doesn't learn anything??? Thanks for the info, very appreciated!
Mark, yes I won't be doin the dry heat recurves again! lol
I steamed in shallow curves yesterday and it went so slick, so easy, thats the way it should be you can just tell!  ;D
Tom and Pappy, its tidbits of info like that, that is just so priceless to a newbie ;D Before I got this computer I did all my tillering with that long string, no info, no problem  ;D but somehow I new it wasn't right, now that its pointed out, well heck its clear as a bell the there is way different forces acting on those limbs,,,, none so blind as those who cannot see,, suitable phrase there I believe.  ;D
Jawge, indeed a good quote, but I wish it wasn't so apt sometimes,,, ;D
Ryan, one day we'll meet and then you can teach me the secrets of your success and I'll get the drinks,,, one day,, ;) 8)
set happens indeed Dusty... ;D ;D
Thanks again for the unselfish sharing of ideas!!  You folks are a class act!! ;) :)
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on April 03, 2007, 01:51:54 pm
Hello once again all!   Got some time at home waiting for this spring blizzard to end and put a bit more work into the"little bow"

Changing to a short string made a big difference in tiller profile and I redid the tiller to proper! Thanks again folks!  ;D

Its got some set, bout 1.5" but not too bad considering all she's been thru. lol

Stained it with leather dye and did some design on the limbs, now getting ready to complete the finish,,, handle

I'll post a few more when she's done.... :)  pretty funky lookin   lol ;D  ::)

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Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: DanaM on April 03, 2007, 02:07:39 pm
Looking good, I like the design on the back. Pretty wild looking.

DanaM
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Hillbilly on April 03, 2007, 03:27:29 pm
That's looking real snazzy. good job on the decoration.
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Dustybaer on April 03, 2007, 06:10:29 pm
really nice.  i like those two colors together.
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Justin Snyder on April 03, 2007, 06:36:26 pm
LOL, Dana. I said that.
"If you ain't breakin' you ain't makin'!"
I also say,
"If it ain't broke don't fix it!"
But I didn't originate that quote.
Someone once wrote that more than 2 inches of set is excessive. Consequently, beginners are devastated when they get 2.25 inches of set.
If you're happy with the bow enjoy it. Jawge
My philosophy has alway been "fix it till it's broken"  ;)

tpoof, that is a cool design.  Nice and striking.  Justin
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Pat B on April 03, 2007, 07:13:47 pm
She's looking good.   Pat
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Roger on April 03, 2007, 07:32:57 pm
Saaaweeet!...I like that design a lot! That bow is a looker....

R
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 03, 2007, 07:47:15 pm
tpoof, that's a beauty. Nice. Jawge
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 03, 2007, 07:50:00 pm
Sorry, Ryan. That one's mine too. :) Jawge
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: venisonburger on April 03, 2007, 08:55:30 pm
tpoof, what are the specs, length, width, weight? I like your color scheme, gonna get some looks with that.
VB
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on April 05, 2007, 02:40:45 pm
Thanks guys!!
VB, its 48" ntn 1 1/4" at the fades to mid limb then to 3/8" nocks,,pin nocks again 30lbs@24"
its got a 1 1/2" set after shooting that mostly stays about 1" after rest,, I don't blame her after all I put her thru...lol
 considerin it came from a broken bow it turned out all right,,,
Still have to get up some full draw pics later

Here she is all done...

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Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: duffontap on April 05, 2007, 04:03:45 pm
What a beauty!  I really like that bow.


I hope I'm not the one who said 2" of set is excessive.  Maybe I was just thinking it? ::)  Ha, ha.  I am not for perpetuating the myth that less set is always better.  You can overbuild bows so they don't have any set but that's excessive mass. 
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on April 05, 2007, 04:30:31 pm
Thanks JD! appreciated,,,  :)

Here's the full draw pics,,,

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Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Badger on April 05, 2007, 05:07:19 pm
That is an extremely nice bow, very well made and beautiful. I have no doubt a good shooter as well. Steve
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on April 05, 2007, 07:27:25 pm
 Thats a very nice bow tpoof ! I really like the color and art work. Hey, tell me about the bow leaning on the wall in the pics ;D....bob
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on April 05, 2007, 09:42:13 pm
Hey, thanks Bob  ;D The bow on the wall I'll have to post up one day, its Hickory and has seen probably a couple thousand shots.
Overbuilt and strong, she's a good meatmaker!  ;D ;D

Thanks Steve,, ,kind of you,,, I've got some old 4point purpleheart footed target arrows from along time ago,, funny how they fit this bow perfect? :D
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: venisonburger on April 05, 2007, 10:10:52 pm
Really nice tiller, I'd be thrilled with that bow.
VB
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Hillbilly on April 06, 2007, 08:35:57 am
Looks like a neat little bow. Love that paint job.
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: Pappy on April 06, 2007, 09:21:06 am
Very nice tpoof,the tiller looks great and just love the paint job and grip. :)
   Pappy
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: tpoof on April 06, 2007, 11:46:59 am
Thanks Pappy, Hillbilly and VB, your comments are welcomed and used as inspiration on future projects :) appreciated!!!
Title: Re: Toasted Elm
Post by: OldBow on April 06, 2007, 01:14:57 pm
Great Salvage!  Made yourself a good horse bow or brushy river bottom whitetail hunter.  Very nice and bookmarked for April Self Bow of the Month.  #9 already!