Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: oxybowon on April 03, 2007, 11:05:51 pm
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Hi- I am totally new to bow hunting, actually I haven't even started yet. Many years ago I shot recurves while in Boy Scouts and I was a decent shot. I just really entered into hunting as a way of putting meat in the freezer and on the table only in the past several years. (Just wasn't raised to hunt.) So, I was totally psyched to find the magazine and this forum. I am looking at a few kits so that I can make my first bow. However, as I was telling my brother about this last night and how I felt this was more connected to hunting than using a compound and if I could harvest something using something I had created that would be mind blowing. He said it was cool, but he wondered whether it would be more likely to just injure a deer or turkey than kill it. I was taken back as I had not really considered it and it seems like a relevant question. I would shoot target until I felt completely confident in hitting with the intent to kill, but I don't want the animal to die in an inhumane manner. I need to feedback and suggestions. Thanks a ton, Mike
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Actually from the stats that I have read. Traditional bow hunters have a higher game recovery rate than even rifle hunters. The pronghorn I shot went less than 30 yards before collapsing. Lots of guys with compounds will shoot any distance, and rifles can be worse. Traditional bow hunters usually know their limits and will not shoot beyond it. I guess the point I should make is that the bow or any other weapon is humane. It is the shooter who makes a bad decision that USUALLY causes the problem. Justin
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.................There is no substantial evidence to indicate compounds have an up on traditional bows. No matter what madison avenue says and manufacturers try to tell you ! As Justin says facts indicate that recovery rate among traditional archery hunters is higher than even rifle hunters. Its "the loose nut behind the steering wheel" or bow in this case. Its not just shooting a game animal, theres a lot more to be competent and a humane hunter............bob
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A well placed arrow with a scarry sharp broadhead is a very humane hunting tool! The propellant makes very little differance. Pat
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I shot several pigs that didn't even realised what happened, and just died in sigth, wood bows are soooo quiet compared to compounds and even glass bows.
...so to answer your question, wood bows probably will have much less animals running and pumping adrenaline in theyr sistems after they got shot than any other hunting device, .....and to me thats real good ;)
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The weapon of choice isnt humane, the mature hunter using it is ! Know your limits and your guidlines and you will be very happy with the outcome.Traditional guys such as myself harvest very successfully and i guess im at that time in my life that i would rather let them "walk" than take a risky shot.If its not a clean kill its not an option for me Ive taken lots of people out with me and i think that frustrates them but they soon get it.
Know what youre doing and what youre capable of and all will go real smooth.
Be safe all and good luck !
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Hey--thanks! You all reflected what were my general thoughts. It really is the hunter and the hunter's ethics.
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Hi- I am totally new to bow hunting, actually I haven't even started yet. Many years ago I shot recurves while in Boy Scouts and I was a decent shot. I just really entered into hunting as a way of putting meat in the freezer and on the table only in the past several years. (Just wasn't raised to hunt.) So, I was totally psyched to find the magazine and this forum. I am looking at a few kits so that I can make my first bow. However, as I was telling my brother about this last night and how I felt this was more connected to hunting than using a compound and if I could harvest something using something I had created that would be mind blowing. He said it was cool, but he wondered whether it would be more likely to just injure a deer or turkey than kill it. I was taken back as I had not really considered it and it seems like a relevant question. I would shoot target until I felt completely confident in hitting with the intent to kill, but I don't want the animal to die in an inhumane manner. I need to feedback and suggestions. Thanks a ton, Mike
if you think its not going to hurt the animal when you kill it i think you may be wrong.
i dont know if killing any healthy animal is humane really,
but if you are going to use what you harvest ,and dont leave it dead to rot.
i cant see there being a problem.
man hunted.
its what made us what we are,
i think a respect for the animal killed should be a big thing.
just my opinion ;)
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I started a reply to this last night several times. I can't really add to what's been said, but I did want to give an illustration. My oldest son is 17. He's been hunting with me since he was 5. Last bow season he had a 160 class buck (extremely big for my piece of hunting land) at 12 yards. Jared is a very good shot with his bow, but gets buck fever pretty bad sometimes. He drew his bow, but felt he was shaking too much for the shot. He let the buck walk. That's one of the proudest moments of my hunting life. He could have let the arrow fly to see if he got a good hit, but he didn't. Let me know that he actually listened to some of my talks. By the way he never saw the buck again.
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I believe that a well placed, sharp arrow from any kind of bow is more humane than a well placed bullet, unless it drops them in their tracks. An arrow kills by causing hemorrhaging and/or lung collapse. With a good sharp head shot through both lungs it only takes seconds for the animal to succumb. A bullet kills by shock and with that shock comes tissue damage and more pain.
Like Manny said, he has shot pigs that didn't know they were shot and if you shoot through a deer, many times he won't know he was hit. I have seen deer run almost 2 miles with their shoulder blown off and half of their heart gone from a gun shot. If you make a nonlethal bow shot, the animal that was shot will be back making his rounds in no time and with very little tissue damage. With a bullet, that is not always the case and the ones that do continue on will have severe tissue damage. Pat
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im a tracker and spend quite a bit of time looking for deer for other hunters in my area. as of yet ive never been called on to look for a tradiotnal hunters animal. yet several of the hunters i track for used to be guides and are very experienced hunters. using guns and compounds. peace
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As in Manny's case Ive also shot hogs with bows.They will sometimes flinch and continue rooting.And then they will just fall over.
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I have been a bit busy recently and have only just found this post . Like everyone else says primitave /traditional bows and arrows in the hands of a competant and ethical bowhunter are humane and very efficient method of harvesting game . On an alarming note here in Australia a New South Wales judge a few weeks ago completly disregarded expert evidence that arrows are a humane , efficent method of harvesting game and went with a contrary argument from a anti hunting professor and found a mate of mine guilty of cruelty to animals for shooting a cat with his longbow [ feral cats are legal game ] on his large leased rural property .The cat travelled 4 metres after being struck , unfortuatly the cat proved to be a wondering pet from a neighbooring property . A very sad situation allround that a rabbit hunt on his own block proved to have such dire consequences .
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That suck's Perry.Tell your friend to use a blunt next time.
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What a bummer! What happened to your friend? I hope it was just a small find and he can plead his case again. Sound like the judge was extremely biased.
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I heard about a hound guy the other day that was convicted of animal cruelty here in the states for culling a litter of unwanted puppies from his own dog. He hit them on the head with a hammer. I'm not quite sure how that was cruel, but the judge said it was. Justin
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Justin, pounding a puppies brains out sounds pretty cruel to me. Could have taken em to the pound or just given them away. There is always an alternative in this type of case.
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Justin, pounding a puppies brains out sounds pretty cruel to me. Could have taken em to the pound or just given them away. There is always an alternative in this type of case.
Nothing is more humane than instant brain death. Cruelty insinuates there is pain involved. One of the local shelters puts them in a garage with a vehicle running. Justin
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Lets see, pound will first try and get someone to take them home with them? Only after a certain time period do they put em under. Might actually be someone out there who might have wanted one of them puppies.
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David, Im not saying it was the BEST way to deal with unwanted puppies. But thousands of puppies are culled every year by other means not as friendly as this one. My point is just that it was not cruel. You might be able to argue if it was ethical, but there is no doubt about it not being cruel. Justin
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I'm with Justin on this one. Who here has ever killed rabbits-ya whack em on the head. Chickens -cut the head off.
Pigs- hang em by the hocks and slit their throat so ya can save the blood. Cows - well you get it eh. They were his dogs and
he exercised his rights and did put them down in a efficient manner. Are you upset because they were dogs? Whta about cats?
My dad would drown the unwanted kittens which is a quite common practice. I guess the guy could have ate them after providing fair chase
and shooting them. I don't care for the word "humane" applied to animals because their not human. We owe any animal we kill an efficient death.
Yes kill not harvest, I harvest corn and peas. Some hunters seem to be buying into the insidious drivel that the liberal anti's have been spreading around.
Divide and conquer is how they operate. One other thing all the pounds up here charge a fee to drop off an unwanted animal I believe its in $25-$50
range. I better stop here as my BP is rising and I'm about to bring religion and politics into this!
In closing grow up people life isn't a Disney movie.
DanaM
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Thankyou Dana,well said.I've heard the same argument on Paleo planent where you are definitely outnumbered by bunny huggers.
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Now Eddie, who in the world would go onto Paleoplanet and argue about stuff like that? ::) ;D
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Dana, I don't like the word humane at all. Humane means to act human. Look what humans did to each other during every major war in the last century. There was nothing nice about it. If you treated dogs and cats the way some people treat people, these bunny huggers would change their mind about the death penalty. Justin
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Well I think the "humane" part refers to the human doing the killing not the animal being killed but that's beside the point. A good quick and solid blow to the head is an efficient way to kill an animal.
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Guys, all I'm saying is I think there were alternatives. How about your friend getting the dog fixed so he dont have to worry about it in the future? True, he had the right to do it. But, I always like to consider there is some kid out there that would love to have a puppy. Sure helped out when I was a kid. Builds a lot of charector and teaches responsibility.
The pounds where you are from are charging to take on unwanted pets? Jeesh! Thats lousy! Dont think that happens here.
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David, I can appreciate what your saying. But a lot of these guys have $5000 dogs. The blood lines need protected for the value of the dog to stay there. Sometimes you have accidental breeding from some yahoo's dog while you are hunting. They have given away pups under the condition that they will be for kids and fixed. Then the yahoo that takes them starts breeding them. After that they cull the pups they don't want. Like I said, its not weather or not he was doing the best thing. It is the fact that someone had the gall to charge him with cruelty to animals. Justin
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Quick death is better than just starving them to death. Personally I could not do it to a pup. Charging your friend with cruelty may be over the top too.
$5000 for a dog?!?! Jeesh, maybe I'm in the wrong buisness!
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They are hunting dogs. I can find you some worth $10000-$15000 if you want. ;D When you hunt for a living, a dog that can reliably catch 100 lion a year is worth a lot. Ironically, it is the culling of unwanted dogs that has produced these incredible hunters. Sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. Justin
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Dad used to talk about bear hunting with Vonn Plott, one of the family who originated the well-known Plott breed of hounds (they originated here in the county I live in-most of us here grew up coon and bear hunting with hounds and know all about hauling thousand-dollar coon dogs around in our five-hundred-dollar trucks :) ). He said Vonn would sometimes go into the woods with a pack of young dogs and come out with a couple of dogs and a bunch of collars on his belt. That's how they bred 'em, if they didn't perform like they were bred to, they didn't live to reproduce. Right or wrong, that's the way most of the old-school houndsmen were.
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Steve yep,The same here.Have a good friend that had two top of the line Catahoulla bay and catch dogs.He paid good money for them and almost won the top prize at the Baying contest on the Seminole Reservation in Ocheechobee.The only place,by the way they have this competition because of animal rights activist.They use live, mean, hogs.
We were out catching hogs one night and heard a hell of a noise.Found the two dogs with a big Brahma bull down on the ground.We got them off and went back to the truck.Pistol came out and both dogs were left there.You lose permission to hunt on these ranches here when they start to seeing cows mauled.And the dogs weren't bought for pets.
I had a litter born with 3 legs,6 and 7 toes,duck feet,you get the picture.The bitch abandoned them.I took them to the lake and shot them with a 22 pistol one at a time.I fed the gators and thought if nothing more then saving them a rough life I contributed to the food chain.
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As to the pound charging to drop off off unwanted dogs and cats, I believe the main reason is its a rule that
you can't adopt an animal from them unless its spayed or neutered. I believe this to be a good rule. Also I don't think some of the hunting breeds make good pets for kids, bear and lion dogs in particular, they have a certian attitude if ya know what I mean. I know a guy that runs plotts fer bear he paid $5000 for a dog well anyway
he was out huntin and his dogs cornered a big bad ass male that stood his ground, kilt 2 of his dogs and had his $5000 dog in his jaws when Todd jumped on his back and stuck the barrel of his 44 in its ear and let em have it. The dog lived bear didn't ;D I personally don't hunt with dogs only have Yorkies the only use fer hunting they would be is as bait.
But I know quite a few folks that run hounds and the blood line is all important to them. Cull, Cull, Cull
DanaM
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I have a lab.In Florida with the gators,they are known as Top Water Plugs. ::)
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Dana, You fish much? Put them suckers on a leash and take a stroll through the hills. We call it trolling for mountain lion. ;D
I had a red bone that would tree a lion pretty good. We were at the tree and he started running off and making a racket like he was trailing a lion. The other dogs started to get confused and wanted to leave the tree. That dang red bone sleeps under that lion tree perminant like now. I keep shock collars on all my dogs. If they so much as look at a deer they are going to light up like a light bulb. I love my dogs, but they best be doing what they are supposed to. Justin
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The Yorkies do their job perfectly they look cute, eat, sleep, crap, and yap at anything they see outta the window. ;)
Actually their good house pets.
DanaM
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Dont hunt with dogs myself. I want to get close and personal with nature. If I cant drop out of a tree and strangle'em with my loin cloth its just no fun!!! ;D
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Dont hunt with dogs myself. I want to get close and personal with nature. If I cant drop out of a tree and strangle'em with my loin cloth its just no fun!!! ;D
I sure hope you like that tree. You might be there for years. When was the last time you were able to grab a cougar by the tail? Justin
BTW dogs are part of nature.
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Do they taste good????
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I think it depends on how ya cook em ;) I'd suggest a slow cooker with lots of onions and garlic.
Dana
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I missed this,What are we cooking dogs or cougers?If it's dogs slow roasted on a spit with low coals is real tasty.Add a little garlic salt and black pepper.Thats how we did it on a fishing trip. 8)
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mmmmmmmmmm what breed were they. I like pampered poodles their real tender ;D
DanaM
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I gotta laugh this thread started out as "Are Traditional Bows Humane" now were trading dog recipes.
Maybe PatB could offer up some cat recipes ;D
DanaM
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Cougar backstrap is about as good as it gets. I shoot everything with a cannon. Digital that is. It has to be a monster before I knock it out of the tree. Although its good practice with a blunt.
Dogs is another story. I'm sure there is a secret to cooking them. I know you don't boil them. Even without the hide they smell like a wet dog. Makes it kind of hard to eat. Justin
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Hmmmmm.......Seems like with this bunch, no matter what the subject starts out as, we always wind up talking about food............Pappy better watch out at this potluck supper next week ;D
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Dana,From what I hear,Poodles are like domestic rabbits,nothing like the real thing,"mutts".
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Was kinda concerned when I started reading this one ,glad I ended up laughing. Watched a guy I know put a shock collar on him self and his other buddy lit him up. Man was that great! Especailly when he caught his breath and said, dammit! I didnt even bark!
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I watched a drunk put one of those collers on that you have the sensors buried in your yard.You know the kind that is supposed to be an invisible fence?Well he chugged a beer and ran as fast as he could.he jumped thinking that would help when he got to the edge of the yard,funny as hell knocked him out cold before he hit the ground.talked funny after that too.Man dogs are tough.
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Yep,they are the best.
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Gee whiz! You guys still beating this dead horse? ;D Pat
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Steve, apparently dogs are smarter than drunks too. Justin
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dead horse? sounds tasty ya have any good recipes Pat ;D
DanaM
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I like mine sun baked and swollen! :o Pat
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Maybe I can persuade Justin to slow down long enough to pick up some choice tidbits to brinng to you guys going to Tenn.........
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I already promised Pat B. all the kitties. ;D Justin
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I prefer my kitties crispy if at all possible. Pat
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::) ::) ::)
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i think knowing your limit comes with the territory and most of us wouldnt take a shot we couldnt make
the damage arrows cause isnt a question in my mind either but i think when you use a rifle or a compound you take much farther shots and wind is more of a factor ect..
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I personally don't hunt with dogs only have Yorkies the only use fer hunting they would be is as bait.
My grandad's Yorkie was a wicked ratter,Yorkies love ratting!they look all cute and lovely but set them down in a barn with rats and there's hell on! ;D.
What breed of dog do you use to hunt pigs with? they must be big buggers to bring down a razorback!Wild pigs are starting to cause a menace in southern England,but its illegal to hunt them with dogs,they just blast them with rifles.
When i was a nipper i used to hunt rabbits with a lovely little blue whippet,man,could that dog shift!I never taught that animal a thing,just put him down and off he went,he knew exactly what to do :).
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Loki if my Yorkies saw a rat they would run and hide the wife has them spoiled something awful.
DanaM
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Loki if my Yorkies saw a rat they would run and hide the wife has them spoiled something awful.
DanaM
My aunt was visiting my mother when an awful bleating came from the laundry room. The 20 pound cat had it cornered and was about to eat 'im ;D.
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I was thinking about this the other day while shootin'. Seems wooden bows are the pinnacle of hunting "hamanely". It is the only way somehting dies awake in nature without fear. Makes you wonder.