Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Pat B on April 28, 2007, 06:10:21 pm
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This is my war bow. The first few pics are from early on, shortly after initial shaping. The last 3 pics are where she stands now...except I have added horn nocks. Pat
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Looking good Pat. Get it done. I want to shoot it in Tennessee. ;D Justin
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It's coming with me. I may work on it there some. It needs to be done by the time I go to the NC Championships at Hickory, Memorial Day weekend. I'm gifting it to the guy that gave me the yew stave. This stave was too valuable for the trade we made so I'll make it up to him this way. He don't know yet. ;) Pat
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Dang Pat, I got a premium osage stave that I would love to make you that kind of trade on. Who knows, I might even get a functional bow that way. ;D Justin
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Justin you still bustin Yew bows????!!!!!???? How many does that make now? ;D
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Bring it on! ;D Pat
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You know, Just being able to work on this beautiful premium yew stave was payment enough. There is no way I would(could) afford to pay for such a stave. I knew shortly after James gave it to me that it was going back to him when done. ;) Pat
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Justin you still bustin Yew bows????!!!!!???? How many does that make now? ;D
Nope..... I havent busted a bow since the last time I busted a bow. ;) Justin
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Pat, the profile looks very much D. It should be oval. The edge of back should be somehow more round.
Jaro
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Thanks Jaro. Can you show me a cross section? I will be removing more from the belly and that should make it more oval. I am not necessarily making this bow to a specific formula. I'm just making a heavy, yew bow. ;) I intend to round the back edges once I'm near done. A cross section view would show me how much. Thanks, Pat
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The thing is that if Mary Rose bows werent ever found, the bowyers would be still making oversized victorian target bows and wonder where is the performance.
One of possibilities is this,you might round the edge of back even slightly more.
http://sweb.cz/hawkwind/elbprofile.JPG
I m making lots of longbows and the rule is - start with squared stave, then you work back down where you want it, make width taper based on the experience and then round back edges as necessary. Then use facet method for shaping the belly and tiler only the thickness to get good bent shape.
One of MR profile variations has little flats on sides of bow profile, which appears exactly when you do this - start with squared stave, round back edges and then belly and the profile emerges as on one of original bows.
Jaro
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Pat thats a nice bow marlon ;D
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Have a look at these profiles from Hardy's book 'Longbow'.
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/profiles.jpg[img])The top right is 42mm deep x 45mm wide (a monster).
Jeremy
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Oh dear, try this link instead...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/profiles.jpg
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Thanks Jeromy. I have Hardy's book(and Pip's, "The Heritage of the Long Bow") and remember seeing those pics. I need to go back and read my long bow books again.
My main problem I'm having is trying to follow directions for a war bow or true ELB. My usual bows are flat bows and I usually let the wood decide what the bow will be. Only on occasion do I start with a preconceived idea and work it out all the way through. Also, knowing that I will never shoot this bow has an adverse effect on me. I will finish this bow and it will be beautiful. I'm pretty sure I won't try a war bow again. I love seeing them and am impressed with those who do make them and shoot them but it is just not my style. Thank you and Josh(JD Duff) for your help. I am very glad we now have a War Bow thread here on PA and hope to see and read a lot about the infamous war bows. Pat
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Jaro/Yeomanbowman,
Do the Mary Rose bows show parallel growth rings on the back (like they were intentionally 'crowned') or were they made from crowned staves to begin with?
Also, Pip has described some of the bows as having a fairly classic D-section. Were there no such bows? My Mary-Rose bow has a section slightly more rectangular than:
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q35/duffontap/D-Section.jpg)
My most recent war bow as a narrow version of this:
(http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q35/duffontap/Semi-Rectangular.jpg)
J. D. Duff
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Hello J. D,
I recall Roy king talks of the Mary Rose 'edge' caused by this process and there are so many styles that I'm sure some must have been a Victorian type 'D'. However, all of the bows I have seen on display in Portsmouth 'in the flesh' have backs that are no more crowned than the unworked staves. The bows seem to be from relatively small diameter staves. I think that most of the bows still have some cambium left across most of the back. I understand that the 2 heaviest bows are rectangular sectioned.
Have a llok at these images I took.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/DSCF0016.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/DSCF0012.jpg
Cheers,
Jeremy
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Jeremy, those are cool picks! Next time your there do you think you can get some picks of the sapwood vs heartwood?
When they were making these bows did they aim first to get a rectangular shape and then round off the edges on the Mary Rose bows?
David T
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Hello David,
The answer is I'm not sure, sorry. There were so many bowyers (bowyers marks) I believe that there may well have been many processes. Chris Boyton has a theory that some sort of planing jig was used to rough out the bow's width quickly. On a batch produced item it would seem to make a lot of sense. One thing I have done in the past is to use a more D than rectangular section if the stave was a bit too triangular when split. Wasted staves = lost profit, I suppose. I'm sure by steaming and the fact that side nocks/double timber hitchs allow bent bows to be centred, very little wood was unusable.
Cheers,
Jeremy
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Thanks for posting those great images Jeremy. Man I want to get my hands on those bows. I feel like I need to see and hold them for a while so I can understand a little more about how they were made. Thanks for the great information.
J. D. Duff
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Hi Jeremy
Cambium on the backs? Does that mean the sapwood was left full thickness? I tried making a bow like that but it was all sapwood at the tips.
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"Full thickness" of sapwood on a small diameter stave with high ringcount is still very thin layer. (Well because the rings are thin - right?)
But yes - the logs they cut for staves were relativelly small diameter which causes the back of the bow be crowned and the rings running semicircular in the profile.
Your squared profile is too much squared. The squared profile on MR bows i more oval with small flats on sides and we have genesis of this. It looks more like normal oval profile blown up over the dimensions of squared stave, if you copy me.
You start with a squared stave and make width taper, then you make thickness tapper, all based on experience, then you facet sides from belly to side, but not in 45 degree angle, but somehow less.
Then you round belly up to the facet - and the small flat surfaces on sides of your stave will magically appear.
Then you tiler only thickness and wont touch anything else.
Jaro
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I have a question about rounding off the corners of the back in areas where there are clusters of pins.
The yew stave i'm working on has clusters of pins (covering about 1 or 1.5 cm square) at various places along the back. If I round off the corners of the back, what should it do at these places?
Option 1: don't round off so much at these areas therefore making it stronger
Option 2: do what it says in the Bowyers Bible concerning decrowning and keep the growth rings parallel when viewed from the back
Option 3: leave a couple of extra growthrings at these areas and round off to the same degree as the normal areas of the back. This will mean the view from the back will show the growth rings bending a bit and skirting around the area of pins.
Any ideas anyone?
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After a bit more work I got her to brace and since yesterday I have brought her to where she is now. From the pics I can see the top limb(left) is bending too much at the handle area and not enough out the limb. Right now she is pulling 87#@26". I know she won't make war bow weight but at least maybe I will be able to shoot her. ;) The first pic is at 5 1/2" brace, 2nd is at 24" and the 3rd is at 26".
I have rounded the back as suggested and would like some more suggestions on where to go from here. ??? Please be honest...but gentle ::) Pat
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Pat,
The tiller is not in balance. I would remove wood from the left limb tip and from the first 3rd of the right side. Then it'll be pretty close to ready.
BTW, from my short experience with heavy bows I have noticed it's best to first make sure the limbs are symmetrically bending and the tips bend also. The middle of the bow can be a bit stiff because it will bend only at full draw. That's why it's wise to save the handle area for the last tillering touches.
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Matti,
Bickerstaffe recommends leaving the taper of the tips for the final stage. I don't have a preferred method myself. I just try to keep the tiller right through all stages (with varying degrees of success). I agree with your assessment of the tiller, of course. ;D
Pat,
Sounds like you know what to do. Finish up the left limb and sand it. Then take some Ibuprofen and shoot a 1,000 grain arrow.
J. D. Duff
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Pat, Is the left limb supposed to be 2" longer? Justin
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Justin, The bow is set up with the top of the handle(4" area) set at 1" above center and the bottom of the handle is 3" below.
Thanks Matti and Josh. I'm too pooped today but later I will work on the upper limb a bit and see where I am. Josh, First of all I don't have a 1000 gr arrow (will 2, 500s do? ;D) and second, I can pull this thing maybe 10" :o. I'm afraid if I pull too hard I will have to get my hemis tuned! ::) Pat
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If it is 87 at 26 it will probably be 110 at 30 or 125 at 32.
So I would call that one a warbow with confidence :)
A bit adjustment and you got an awesome bow there 8)
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Thanks Kviljo. We will see after I adjust the tiller. ;) I doesn't matter to me if she hits 100# or not. I have enjoyed the experience of working such a wonderful yew stave. This will probably be the only war bow I build. When done, I will give her back to the guy that gave me the stave in the first place. He will be able to shoot her. Pat
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If you do nothing but touch up that limb you'll have a 100 pounds or more--no problem. With its less-than-average length, I would shoot for right around that and not push my luck. Very nice bow Pat.
J. D. Duff
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Thanks Josh. Yew , and especially thin grained yew, is a wonder to work. I would like to try a lighter hunting weight yew bow next...but I won't take any lessons from Justin! ;D I will even out the tiller and see what she comes out at. I am pleased with the way she has turned out. I still say the hardest part was making and fitting the horn nocks. >:( Pat
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Is the horn some you got from me? You better be carefull. Justin
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YUP! That's the ones. took 4 tips to make 2 nocks. ;D At least I didn't put them on backwards like I did with that little ERC bow I built. ::) Pat
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Yes, but after I touched them do you want them that close to yew? Justin
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If this sucker blows, you'll hear it in Utah! :o I believe the horn acts like an insulator so that would prevent your cooties getting on my bow! ;) Pat
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Looking good Pat but I think that transerve knot near the tip would give me siome cause for concern in a high draw weight.
How solid is it?
Once the tiller is balanced you only need to get the tips round a little more, perhaps when it has been shot in.
You certainly don't want any more give in the handle.
Rod.
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Thanks Rod. I had planned to leave that area around the knot alone for now. If it is stiff there that's OK with me. I will leave the handle area alone and concentrate on the center portions of the limbs, especially the top limb. Pat
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Weill, here she is! 72" long, 95#@30" and damned pretty I might add. ::) I used 2 coats of Formby's tung oil finish and 3 coats of Tru-Oil. Not quite traditional but close. I added a silk wrap(set in super glue) below each nock to ease the transition between the limb tip and the horn nock and to protect the soft yew from the string. The pics are details of the tips, unbraced, front and back, braced and my version of full draw. ;D. I will get a good full draw pic this weekend when I present it back to the guy that gave me the stave. On the bow I inscribed..."For James Parker...Thanks for the experience" and the bow's stats.
I'd say not too bad for a knave but what do the experts say. Pat
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Wow! Another perfect tiller! 8)
I always wonder how thick and wide they are at it's center, because many of the MR-bows are listed with center measurements. It's not much for comparison, but interesting anyway. How thick and wide is it?
Any chanse of weighing it's mass too? :)
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Lovely detailing on a real looker, I must try that silk. Is Tru-oil for gun stocks and what's in it, Pat? I've heard it's good stuff. Still alittle way to come back on that draw ;)
J
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What's going on with that tree behind the bow ??? :D
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Kviljo, The width at the center of the bow is 1 1/4" and the thickness is 1 3/16". I have no scale to take a physical weight but if I can find one I will.
J, Tru-Oil is a linseed oil product with dryers added. I use my finger to apply it and allow it to dry overnight, rub it with 0000steel wool and add another coat. I usually use 3 or 4 coats on most of my bows. Some folks use a lot more. It dries to a hard deep shiny finish. I used the tung oil first on this bow because I feel it penetrates deeper and really enhances the grains appearance.
Simon, The tree face was a gift from our daughter. They are made of polymer and come in different characters. We have happy trees here in the mountains of western North Carolina.
Thanks for the comments guys. Pat
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Any chance of a FULL DRAW picture. ;D Just kidding Pat, she looks great. The tiller looks great. I think James is going to be a happy camper. Justin
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Lovely Bow,nice garden too i didnt notice the face on the tree at first,too busy drooling ;D.
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Nice work Pat. She'll go over 100# if ever taken to 32". Looking forward to a full draw shot.
J. D. Duff
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Well, I finally found someone to pull my bow. This is Art Butner's son Jason this weekend at the North Carolina Traditional Archery Tournament near Hickory, NC. Not a classic war bow draw or pull but probably near 30". Pat
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AWESOME WORK Pat!!!.... 8) 8) 8) 8)....REALLY COOL!!!... :) :) :) :)...
The tiller look´s PERFECT full-compass shaped circle...
All of that Warbow is IMO EXCELLEN!!...
Cheers and keep up that cool job Pat...
Asier.
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TTT ::)
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TTT ::)
What a shameless plug to bring ones own bow to the top. ;D She looks great Pat. I'm glad you found someone to draw it for you. Did you let loose any arrows from it? Justin
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Justin, We couldn't find a 1000gr arrow anywhere. :D You'd think at an archery shoot someone would have a 1000gr arrow. ;) Thanks , She does have a nice bend. Pat
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Pat, I'm thinking you just cut a small diameter tree and you have a 1000gr arrow. Justin
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Very Nice Bow Pat,you should tell your mate to 'get into the Bow' more,he'll have that thing humming :D.
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Loki, Thanks for the positive comment. I wish there was someone there that could have gotten "into the bow". The guy that I was gonna give the bow to probably could have but he wasn't there. I would have liked seeing her pulled to "full" draw(32") but I am pleased seeing her at 30". It's hard to see the tiller from only the tiller tree. ;) Pat
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Cool bow Pat, you did that wood proud. Too bad you don't have any hay fields for a flight range. All and all beautiful bow and well done. Kenneth
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Kenneth, I wish you had a chance to shoot her and see her in person. As far as I can pull her, I doubt I could shoot an arrow out of my front yard. ;D. Pat
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I kind of know what you mean Pat, the way my arm has been lately I think I could shoot a war bow about as easy as a kids bow. I think it is getting a little better but is taking forever. Kenneth
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At our age, things don't repair as quickly as they used to. :'( Pat
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That is excellent tiller Pat. These are not easy bows to build (or pull for that matter). Tillering those long, long limbs without any flat spots or hinges takes quite a measure of talent. You nailed it.
J. D. Duff
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Thanks Josh. A lot of contemplation went into building this bow. ??? ::) ;D She is totally different than most of my bows but I thought this particular piece of yew needed to be a special bow. I am totally pleased with her and appreciate the positive comments from everyone.
She still need to be shot and I need to get the mass weight. Pat
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Pat,
Really attractive bow and detailing. Keep us posted on how she performs, my guess is _--FAST. No 1000grain arrows??? What are you going to do if a Frenchman in full plate harness charges you ;)
Cheers,
J
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.308 ;) Pat
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Ahh,Pat a little overkill don't you think? A Jeep would be easier ;D
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;D ;D
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Ahh,Pat a little overkill don't you think? A Jeep would be easier ;D
Gas is to expensive to go chasing them around the parking lot. Justin
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J, Thanks for the comments. I'll have to make an appropriate arrow and find someone to take a few shots. I am curious as to how she shoots.
Eddie, I don't own a Jeep. I've got a .308! ;D Pat
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Hey Pat, as soon as those Bodkins show up I'll try and make a 1000 grain arrow for us. This could be fun.
Dick
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Dick, Then all we would have to do is find James to shoot her. ;D Pat
ps. I got a pkg from you today. What are you trying to do, kill me! :o but thanks anyway. I will enjoy!