Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: iowabow on December 19, 2010, 01:22:00 pm
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Aiming isn't not hitting "east African proverb" proven and tested by this "hopless hunter" (name given by my 10 year old son). I have fired my bow 15 times and missed every time. Now I did give one one deer a bloody nose. The arrow made her jump back and she hit her nose on a sapling that left a blood trail. I even thought I hit that deer because i could not find my arrow and there was blood up the trail, after tracking my deer and reviewing the point of impart my neighbor found my arrow in the ground at the spot I fired. There was no blood on the arrow (you can imagine the confussion). You may ask why such bad luck or what is wrong with this guy but i want you to know that i have hunted deer for years with smoke pole and compound with much success. I found that with the primative bow I look at the deer not the spot i am firing at lol and I did not cut large enough arrow lanes (I hit scores of limbs most at 10 or 15 yards) for the primitive bow. Now with all of that said this has been the best hunting season of my life. THIS IS JUST NOT THE SAME GAME. P.S. I Practiced every day this summer.
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Sounds like you are having alot of fun. The journey, Eh ! ? ' Frank
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It all changes when a live hairy target steps in your shooting lane! I missed the first 9 I shot at(over their back) and wounded the 10th(not fatally) before I shot a doe that was standing 8' from my tree, almost straight down which is probably one of the hardest shots. Go figure! ::) Since then I have missed one that was way too far to start off.
Picking a spot is the "trick" to scoring during a hunt but missing sure isn't the end of the world. I would have liked to have just seen a deer on one of my 6 hunts this year.
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I learned to hunt deer much better because I had to set up all stands and blind at 15 yards. Never before did I see and have deer so close and so regularly as during this season. I think in the early season I saw deer every other time I went out. Next year will be very different the transition period will be over. I do have second season starting tomorrow.
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I'm right there with you, Iawabow. I've had them close but I flub it at the moment of truth. Put a rifle, sluggun or the like in my hands and the animal will die but these simple stick bows really mess with my focus.
We'll keep trying because this form of hunting has smittened us.
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If truth were told I suspect nearly all of us struggled when we started. Fortunately stick bows are quiet. I've killed 2 does that were sniffing the errant arrow from my first shot when the second arrow arrived. I got one particularly curious doe on the 4th shot! ::) What finally worked for me was to begin the "pick a spot" concentration the minute I saw the deer (or hog). From that point on I thought of nothing else and the arrow launched seemingly by itself. Unfortunately, that had the unintended consequence of making small branches between me and the animal nearly invisible until my arrow deflected off them. After taking a few deer and hogs the concentration became automatic and I began to be able to act more normal. I have a chronic problem shooting over game so I always pick a spot that I think will take out the heart. That gives me a little more room for error. You will get it, game is not like targets. Once you kill one and get some confidence it will go much better. Sounds like you have an excellent setup so it is only a matter of time.
George
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I read your post yesterday before I when out to hunt yesterday and........ As I stepped into the woods i jumped the deer off the bed some 40 yards from my stand. The Deer ran down in the valley and started looking everywhere. I figured they heard me but did not see me. They started heading up the hill back to the bed so being on the other side of the crest I moved low down wind to the bed and set up in on the back of a three trunked tree and waited. The deer crested the hill and head right to left at 20 yards I had one opening in the branches 2 feet wide. I started to pull the bow 4 feet before the deer entered the opening but she stopped so I eased off the string and waited to draw. She started to move so I pulled and aimed just above the spine and that is just where the arrow went just over the deer. I normally practice at 15 and at 20 the arrow drops but this time it went just where I was looking. She ran back 10 yards and a little down wind. She started searching for me. I was frozen and three other deer walked in and locked up at 25 and that was how it remained for an hour no one moved. The wind shifted just long enough and game over. They turned and ran down the hill and up the next ridge. I was not going to give up so I retrieved my arrow and circled down wind to a few ridges over where I knew they were headed. In the valley the trail Y's so I picked the closeest trail and set up behind a cedar. just before dark they came in but took the other trail and 8 deer filed by at 80 yards. Deer 16 me 0. I went out and set up just below the beds this morning and heard the squirrels going crazy and a boobcat appears on the south ridge and was headed toward the stand but he cut west of me and up the ridge behind me. I called to him and he came into 20 yards but I could not shoot out of season. He left and came back in 30 mins later and still out as of season.
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You are supposed to look where you want the arrow to go. ;D Let your brain do the calculating.
Sounds like a great time in the woods yesterday and this morning. I love it when the boobcats come in! :o ;D
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Dang, I had a long post all typed which very verbosely said what Pat said so simply. I couldn't agree more.
Good luck and make sure your camera is with you next time...you're going to need it.
George
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It is going to be real windy in the morning 7 wind chill. Just how cold can an osage bow go. What temp should it not be hunted with. The temp in the morning is going to be 23. I did not see any deer this morning or evening so tomorrow is the day. I got this just look where the arrow needs to go. I am going to say this phrase all morning. I am real impressed with my deer hide bow string, I have hunted almost every day save rain and gun season sense oct 1st. How many shots before I need to make a new one. I need to post a picture of how I tied the ends they have held together real well. My bow is strung for hours and hours and that string keeps going. I made two strings one from milkweed and one from flax and they both broke after a week of hunting. Also the deer string is very quite when fired. I am going to make one out of squirrel hide for next year. I know i am a little off topic but it still relates I think to hunting. If there is anyone in the southest Iowa area that wants some osage I saw that one of my osage trees was washed out by the creek. I have like 15 staves don't really think I need anymore so if want it it is free but you will have to cut it and carry it out.
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The only osage bow I shot in very cold temps was sinew backed. I killed a deer with it at -10. I don't think you'll have any trouble. I would draw it a few times to warm it (and you) up every now and then. Maybe somebody else has broken one in the cold, but nobody I hunted with in the Nebraska Traditional Archers broke any in the cold that I know of. You'll have more trouble getting your arms to bend in the cold than the bow I'd think. I know I did. Now I'm seriously spoiled in the Texas temps. It was 82 today. ::) Doesn't seem like Christmas-time to me.
Can't help you on the string question, mine are all B50. It is very cool that your rawhide string is working so well. I'd certainly like to see a picture.
George
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here is a picture of my string loop it is the same at the other end (http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l567/iowabow/string1.jpg)(http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l567/iowabow/string2.jpg)
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I had a crazy hunt today, As you know I have fired 16 times and missed everytime. I was sitting in the stand just before day break rehearsing the advise from all of you and a deer walked in down wind and came in to 20 yards and locked up. I keep watching the deer from over my shoulder when it occurred to me that I was suppose to be picking a spot not watching the deer. I shifted gears and started picking a spot and that was what I focused on for practice. This deer stood for 5 mins then turned and raised its tail and ran back down wind. Three minutes later a small doe came ruining in from up wind (the wind speed to day is 20 MPH) and before I could draw on the deer in the 15 yard lane it was under the stand (a shot I did not practice for) The deer was 2 steps from the tree how hard could that be? I fire an arrow and it went over its' back. the doe walked out to 20 yards and I fired (not picking a spot because I was in a hurry and surprised that I had missed) and this time I shot low. The deer never knew I had fired a shot and walked off. Then a doe came in fast again and was through the 20 yard lane to the left before I could pull the bow. This deer stopped under the stand to the left when I heard another deer coming in from in front of me but it stopped at 40 I could see it was a buck. The deer to my left below the stand walked off down wind. Now things get really going because another doe at 70yards to the right is crossing a ditch and heading up the hill toward me but hit my trail and blows but continues across the hill to my right. Now the buck decides to come in and at 15 yards I pick a hair and pull the bow and with a good release the arrow hits the deer perfect! and the deer runs down the hill with my arrow a good 6 inches in the lung behind the shoulder. I look at my watch and I call my friend to come help my track the deer. We decided we would wait an hour before we go after the deer. So I finish my phone call and put my phone in my pocket and pick up my bow and a doe walks in to the same opening as the buck but turns torward the stand so at 8 yards again straight down I shot right over the doe (yes I have two tags). I was not unhappy because I hit the buck. My friend shows up and we track the buck 90 yards and find the arrow, it looks like it went in the deer a good 7 inches and then the blood trail ends. We spent hours and hours looking for the deer and checked creeks bedding areas and still no deer, I going back out tthis afternoon to look again. We found no more blood after checking every trail for 80 acres. This was a very well placed shot and at 11 yards so I must have hit bone what do you think? the shot was behind the shoulder and 2-3 inches high from center of lung. 20 shots now no dead deer,,,,, aiming is not hitting and hitting is not killing. I worked for two weeks to figure out feeding patterns and cross trails on this stand I had 4 to 5 deer coming from all directions wow! great set up I just cant bring this primitive thing to home plate.
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I am shooting a 515 grain arrow and a 55 lbs bow.
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Welcome to the world of hunting. I hope you recover your deer. Sounds like you had enough penetration if you hit vitals.
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I am sorry to hear that. I hope you find him.
George
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how far you think a deer can go if a deer was hit in the upper lung and 7 inches deep
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how far you think a deer can go if a deer was hit in the upper lung and 7 inches deep
Depends on several factors. Did both lungs get hit? In your case I assume there's no way to know. A deer can survive on one lung if a major blood vessel didn't get hit on the lung that was hit. Even if it dies, it can go a very long way before it bleeds out, easily hundreds of yards. On a perfect shot the deer is normally going to run for several seconds. Most of my deer like that made it between 50 and 150 yards. Sometimes they run in a circle or fall quicker than normal, but usually they make it out of sight.
Sometimes it just defies logic. You make a perfect shot and the deer runs and runs. I once shot a hog right in the butt (it turned when I shot) that only went 20 yards. Weird.
George
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7" penetration in the right area will put a deer down in 100 yards or less. What broadhead are you using?
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Flint arrowhead
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If you hit your deer where you say you did, he's dead. Even if you hit alittle high and back you still it live. He'll die afer a couple hours. Your problems not hard to fix. It's perrty plain whats happening. I had a cousin that bow hunted with me a long time ago. and he had it easer than you. He shot a compound with sights. Out in the yard he was deadly. He was a new bebe either.I must have put him in a dozzen tree stands. And he must have missed a dozzen bucks and even does.
It was simple he get exsited and shoot at the whole deer everytime. Your deffently doing the same thing. I've found out through the years through friends. Instentive shooters that have this problem shoot high mainly. At the last min. when you know your going to get a shot. Your eye see's the line of the deer's back. and thats where they shoot. And they shoot high. This is why there's so many spine shot deer. But it sounds like when you see the deer comeing you tell yourself pick a spot,pick a spot. But when you know your going to get a shot you lose it and only see the whole deer.
This problem is fixable first you've got to over come your promlem (mentaly), And I'd bet you shoot at a dot. Get a deer target. AND as you shoot at it NO DOT pick a spot every shoot untill it comes second nature it's that simple. But remember you must do the mental part on the real thing. It's that simple I've helped a few others that had the same problem.
I hate to say it but I know a guy thats been deer hunting (rifle) for 20 plus years every year. Who just can't get it together. And everytime as soon as brown hits the scope he shoots. And for some reason he always comes up for behind. And shoots most of his deer in the hind quarters. He got the name HIND QUARTER LEE years ago. Buck fever the same time happening to you.
Hope yuo find your buck.
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A saying I always use is "aim small, miss small" stole it from the patriot with mel gibson but its very true. also, are you consistently shooting high? or low? or left? either way try to identify what exactly it is you are doing wrong and correct for it. 9 times out of 10 its the release that gets messed up. The release is single most important aspect of archery. Take your time and practice. You dont want to be "that guy" who wounds deer.
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I practiced all spring and all summer. I have very good groups on the target. My issue is picking the spot and staying focused. I finally pulled it together with the buck I hit, I picked a spot and the arrow came within 2 or 3 inches of it at 11 yards. So we will see next year if the lessons form this fall come together. I do very appreciate the help on here because it helped me focus at the end of the season. My big problem was looking at the whole deer and losing consentration.
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You'll do fine next year. You can make your practice more realistic by shooting just a single arrow at your target. Or make each shot at a different distance. Ping pong balls are fun to shoot at. Hone your confidence, so there's no way you feel you can miss. Practice on rabbits, which should still be in season. When you can pick a spot on a rabbit, a deer is a piece of cake. You can shoot, just need some confidence. My money is on you.
George
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My friend is going to try this next year so we are going to rig up a target on a set of pulleyes so that one of use can simulate a deer walking in. The person pulling the rope will not be looking at the shooter that way he will not know when the shot is going to be taken. The shooter will have no idea when the target is going to stop or start. This should simulate random opportunity.
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I wanted to revisit this post and give an update. I have made a new bow for this years season and all new points. I have practiced shooting 3d targets and recently worked on my form by shooting from the stand. I am ready for round two and feel good about the off season preparation. Last year I fired 20 times and only hit a deer on the 19th shot. Any advice or other thoughts folks?
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Two suggestions..."Pick a Spot" and "Aim Small, Miss Small"!!!
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Just remember that you are having fun and the only pressure comes from yourself.
Lane
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At this point I don't feel as nervous as last year. My equipment and preparation is better and all of the stands and planning is done. I hope I can just relax and work through the the moves as the deer comes in. I want to bring this together before I plan any other game hunts.
In the future I would love to do a hunt like what pat b is doing or go south for a hog hunt. However I need to make my shooting and everything else come together first.
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Nah, jump in that truck, head south and we'll fling some arrows at pigs, armadillos and/or coons. Course, it's 93 degrees at 9:30pm. Just a little toasty. If I'd waited till I felt everything had come together I'd still be waiting to go. ;D
George
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I may take you up on that next year after deer season! That sounds like good times to me.
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Hey Iowa,
Man I feel for ya, done every bit of what you are going through. Killed more than I got a right to, but for the first few years I'll bet I missed as many.
What helps me (and my old eyes) is when ya practice do not shoot at a bullseye or deer target, instead cover yer target with burlap and aim at little spots that shadows make or wrinkles make. Will teach ya to bore your attention into a small area. If you are concentrating enough all ya see is the arrow appear on the target.....nothing else. No arrow, no bow, not even the critter.....just the spot and the arriving arrow, as a matter of fact if the shot's a pass through the arrow will appear and then dissappear just as mast, kinda spooky the first time that happens.
What give me all my fits was as I drew the bow I was sneekin a peek to see if the deer was lookin.....result was perfect windage about 1" high over the back.....every time too!!!!
The other thing that gives me fits to this day is when them damned deer just "appear" out of nowhere....no time to calm down or nothin, I like to see them coming so that I can calm down and try to controll my heart-rate before even drawing.
Ya didn't ask, but two things ya might try......learn to totally concentrate on your spot, and try to calm down before you draw.......oh ya one more thing, resist the urge to shoot another arrow at them when they are running away stickin out their tounges at ya :P
rich
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I would suggest you give me the map coordinates to your tree stand so I can hunt it! haha. That is alot of deer traffic to get 20 shots in a season. I've been bow hunting about 7 years now and all traditional starting last year and I don't think I've let 20 arrows go yet. Enjoy what you have, the more shots you get the better you're going to get at your craft. Just remember when you see the deer early, just breath and prepare and think of where the shot is going to come. Visualize picking the spot behind the shoulder, just find a little tuffed of hair or a spot or something and aim for that, don't look at the whole thing. Goodluck.
~Barry
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This is good info guys, thank you! I am going to put this info to practice! I a a good hunter but not a good primitive archer. I can get the deer in because I have like 6 stands and hunt feeding patterns that work with wind direction only. So if a deer is moving from a field of beans to a woods on a trail that runs south and then turns west, I would set up two stands one on the N/S part of the trail and one on the E/W and then watch the forcast for wind direction to determine which stand to sit in that morning. I would only hunt that spot in the morning if there was a north or east wind and that would determine stand a or b. Now in the afternoon it would have to be a south or west wind. I have a set of note cards for morning and night that are broke down by wind directions. So I don't have to think about which stand I want to hunt but which would be the most favorable. I also setup pattern stands these are stands that are on trail that pattern around the stands that I hunt most often. In the early part of the season I do a lot of valley hunting but as the deer get smart I move to ridge stands. I do ground hunts only if it is spot and stalk for the most part or real early in the season. I try to hunt everyday that the weather is good. I live where I hunt so that make a real difference also.
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This summer I went to TN and had a great time shooting the 3d targets. I did not do well so I have been working to put many of your methods into practice. I went in June to a local 3d shoot. I did not score great, so out of 30 targets I scored a 91, there were a lot of 30 yard shots not real practice for primitive shooting. I decided that my 70 inch bow needed to be rebuilt so I cut it to 62 inches and made the fades work a whole lot more. Anyway I worked hard on your ideas to improve my form and concentration. I went this weekend and shot the course again (which was changed a little) and scored 46 points higher, it was clear that the bow was shooting much flatter. I was aiming much higher than the bow required and over shot a number of targets that I would not miss if I ran the course again. I scored a 137 and could have picked up 20 more if I knew the bow a little better. I hope that I can bring my 3d score to around a 200 by next year. I found a big different in the practice arrows I built. I found one that shot high everytime and one that shot low everytime (did not shoot them on the course). I just wanted you folks to know that your input is helping.
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I put all of your ideas into play and I spent a lot of time straightening arrows. I also noticed something new. I felt shock into my shoulder and the arrow hit dead on. So I thought about why and realized I was locking my left shoulder into place so I shot the rest of these arrows. I am very happy with this group at 15 yards it measured 3 inches across
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m559/iowabow2/2011-08-26192650.jpg)
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m559/iowabow2/2011-08-26192707.jpg)
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Nice group !!!is that with broad heads?
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No. The field points are matched to the arrowheads.
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Looks like you are in business, no doubt you will let the air out of one shortly! When does. Ia start???
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We start Oct 1st. I am going to start the one shot practice from now till opening day.
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If you want to shoot more arrows in your practice, take each arrow and throw it away from you different directions and distances. Then walk from arrow to arrow shooting back at the target. If 2 are pretty close to the same distance, shoot one and then go to an arrow at a different distance before coming back to shoot the other one. Don't forget real close shots, make sure you shoot in close too. Better do that first though or you'll beat up your arrows. I hate (because of living in town now) that I can't shoot but 18 yards, and I hate shooting groups.
George
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I live in the country but our town has an open archery range at the city park that anyone can just walk up to and start shooting arrows at targets. In todays world I think that is kinda cool.
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I haven't read all posts. But I wanted to say I feel for you. I have yet to hunt primative but I can kill the Sh*t out of a box at 20yds. ;D
Last season I hunted was in Jersey. I have hit deer each season... only one per season. when I was sorrounded by deer like that my nerves were gonig nuts. I should aimed for MIR space station to improve my odds. In Jersey you need to earn a buck but I prefer does anyway, they taste better.
I hunted compound. One day I had a whole herd of does come in. I picked a big one and fired. Missed. She looked around like "what was that"?, we continue this till my quivor is empty. . . all 6 arrows decorating the woods behind my house with 4 does and spike looking around. Finaly she looks up right at me. I threw my empty quivor at her. . . . Miss. I threw my hunting knife at her, miss. I threw the sheath . . . got closer. They all split when I yelled God *&^$ F*&$% D*MN IT!
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That tis funnier than all three pages of this post!
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Where is that range? When I moved to Iowa there was talk and pictures of a close range in the local propoganda but I've not found it.
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Yes the range is in Burlington IA at Crapo Park. There is also a club at Big Hollow and it is called Flint River Bowhunters Club.
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I attended the last 3d shoot for the year at the local club yesterday. I scored a 137 which was the same score as last month I was hoping to do better because I made a set of POC Arrows and practiced a lot. (My Homemade arrows are 510 grains and the POC are 380 grains) The lighter arrows shoot flatter and group tighter but tend to require more skill to shoot. I like the quality of the arrows they snap back faster and are straighter than my homemade arrows but the POC tend to shoot much higher on the down hill parts of the course. So I can have arrows that shoot great at 15-20 and work well on the down hill parts or arrows that are lighter and shoot flat out to 25 and work great on the up hill. So I think I am going to work toward the middle with my next set of arrows.
My homemade arrow are great for my 15yard hunting situations but don't work well for 3d shooting. I am going to keep my 500grain setup for hunting for Now.
So for 3d shooting I was going to use heavier wt arrow shafts rather than adding wt to the tip. What do you all think?
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Rather than making arrows right away I decided to buy a practice treestand. I set the stand up and fired the bow at 15, 10 ,and 6 yards from the base of the stand with both sets of arrows and notice no difference between the two sets of arrows. I did notice a different in accuracy, the POC were much more on the mark. I sure hope all of this practice makes a diffence this time. Last year I did not shoot from a stand. I will include pictures maybe later today.
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(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m559/iowabow2/flint/2011-09-13144232.jpg)
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You are gonna mess around and EARN yourself a deer if you don't watch out!
Lane
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I think today was the first time I understood the difference between instinctive and gap shooting. Although I sight and focus both on the target and never on the tip. I will try to explain. If I pick a spot and draw carefully keeping the arrow pointed at the target the whole time then gapping works great but if I just don't think and pick a spot and don't gap I hit right where I am looking kinda. Crazy I did it like different every other time (switched between the methods) with good results. It is the first time I noticed an intuitive direction and I have been shooting for a year and a half. Now what do I do this this knowledge. Do I follow the intuitive or keep gapping. I have 20 day before deer season. Strange time to learn a cool new thing.
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Gap works best if you know the range. On targets that's cool, on game not so much.
Let the force be with you.
Lane
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... Now what do I do this this knowledge. Do I follow the intuitive or keep gapping. I have 20 day before deer season. Strange time to learn a cool new thing.
The question isn't so much which is better. The question is which will you do when the chips are down and the adrenalin is flowing with a deer in range. I can't answer that for you, but for me I shoot instinctive. In fact I usually have no memory of drawing the bow or releasing the arrow. Once I commit to the shot the rest happens by itself. So, one second I'm focused on the spot I want to hit and the next the arrow is in flight. The only exception to this is if I see cover in the way. For some reason, having to shoot around or through cover changes my focus to the point that I can gap or what I refer to as "shooting the trajectory" where I envision the flight the arrow will take and shoot it down that path. I shoot well doing that, odd that I can't do it all the time. On the other hand, over time I've stopped trying to stop deer with a bleat the way the wheelie folks do. There's no need when shooting instinctively. If the deer is moving I just focus on the spot and when the arrow appears it has lead applied. This works much better as a stopped deer is alert and there's a good chance it'll jump the string. Lane is right, it's like the "force" in star wars. If you can shoot instinctive, it'll serve you well.
Don't over think your shooting. Be confident and practice enough to retain that confidence. If a deer comes in and you miss, it wasn't that deer's day to die. Nock another arrow and shoot the next one. Wild predators don't get every deer they try for and neither will we. You will get one this season.
George
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This morning was great! 3 deer came in but locked up at 25 yards I really wanted a 20 or less shoot so I waited and it just did not come together they turned and walked back the direction which they came. I feel real good about how I reacted and deciding not to shoot at 25. I had a great opening and the deer was standing still and looking away. If it could have been 7 yards closer.
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we have all been there, it is so hard to keep focused on a spot. I once called in a huge bull elk, when he crested the rise I waited until his chest cleared and picked a spot, as I drew my bow he looked at me, I looked at him and shot right between his antlers. I should have never took my eyes off the spot I wanted to hit, what made it worse is that I called him back in and did the exact same thing again :o
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Good job on your control!!! You got to know what is doable for you. They will make a mistake and you will have your chance. Best of luck to you!!!!!!
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I think I can help you I have with others that had the same problem. WhenI switched back to traditional a recurve at the time. In the heat of the moment at the last second I'd shoot at the whole deer. Or like I said before my eyed be drawed to the horsonial line of the bucks back.
All you need is a place that willdraw your attention. I found out the crease of the front leg dose the same thing. So I shot at the crease and as the shots piled up. I slowly learned to pick a spot in the crease. After a while I learned to pick a shot any where.
Sounds like when you made your shot. Picking the a hair worked youhit where you were looking. The leg crease will just help draw you and keep your eye there. HERE'S SO MORE ADVICE AND I KNOW YOU'VE READ TONS.
When you shot at the whole deer this happens because at that last minite you want to see your arrow fly and hit. OK when you pick that spot FOLLOW THROUGH MEENING Don't (NEVER-NEVER) off the spot you pick before the arrow hitsthe traget.deer or what ever.
GOOOOOD LUCK
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Deer walking in to be continued
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(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m559/iowabow2/flint/2011-10-02085133.jpg)
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Just keep making those arrows.
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There are two deer in this picture but I can only see one. Here is how it went down. I had two deer come from behind me and walk back and forth on the other side of the fence (you might be able to see it) I was sure that the deer would not jump the fence so I pulled out my camera and a snapped a shot. Just as I took the picture the deer turned and jumped the fence and started following my trail right to the stand and I had a branch in the way at 11 yards so I started slowly pulling my bow and the deer look right at me and I froze. Then it turned around and when it could not see me I went to full draw (I did everything by the numbers and was able to metally go through all of the steps in making a good shot) slowly she finished turning and was almost broad side at 15 yards with a slight quartering away shot. I made sure at this moment to metally focus on a spot and let the arrow go. The arrow hit right were I was looking and the deer ran off jumped the fence and stopped I could see my arrow in the deer and then she slowly walked down the hill. I called my neighbor and we waited 40 minutes. We started tracking and then found the arrow it only went in like 3 inches or less and the tip was broken. I knew this was not a good sign. We tracked the deer for a couple of hours down hills across creeks and back up hills. No dice no deer no blood no tracks. I must have hit a rib on the side with that quartering away shot. When the deer walked down the hill it acted like nothing had happened. Has this happened to anyone else? I have the worst luck.
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m559/iowabow2/flint/2011-10-02111511.jpg)
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m559/iowabow2/flint/2011-10-02111519.jpg)
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The only positive thing to come out of this is I can focus on what it takes to bring it together. Also the shaft did not split and the glue did not break and the tendon remained intact. So everything worked just no deer.
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I figured re-tooling was the only thing to get back in the "next time" mindset.
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John,
Are you sure you didn't get up and into the shoulder blade? I guess it's possible a centered rib might stop the arrow but I wouldn't have thought so. I would have guessed major bone strike to stop the arrow like that...either big leg bone or scapula. Too bad, you've really a string of bad luck. I would chalk it up to another Murphy attack and get after it again. She will almost certainly recover.
By the way, how high up are you? The higher I go the more I struggle to keep my arrows down. I have done the same thing, though it was with a steel head. My shot got up into the spine as the shot was very close and I was high.
George
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Most of the time I am at 12 this one had to be at 14. I am 100% sure it was in the lung kill zone dead center. She stopped and l could see the hit. The shoulder was not in the hole I shot through. Strange things happen on my primitive hunts. I have never been challenged like this before. Getting a deer was always easy with a gun or modern bow. I am 0 at 15 yards. I think the deer gods are against me. I do like all the help it has helped a lot. I could see the arrow 5 inches behind the shoulder and in the middle of the body. I just don't know what to think about why it worked like that.
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John you gotta be doing everything just right to get so many opportunities. And you put an arrow right where you wanted it. Hey, it is just October. This primitive stuff is pretty damn hard after all. That is what makes all of us so special 8), we go the hard route.
Lane
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I am lucky to have a place that is full of deer but you have to put the stands in just the right place or you will never get a shot with a primitive bow. This weekend was great tonight I got to see two bucks fight I was able stalk up to 80 yards. I got busted for the crazyest reason. I was stalking one buck when an other buck came in to the picture. They starting fighting and one buck lost an antler in the fight. The defeated deer ran and circled down wind and within 10mins I was busted.
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m559/iowabow2/flint/2011-10-02185036-1.jpg)
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The deer is on the left side of the picture. There are two bucks in the picture but I can't see the other one that is on the right. This was about 80 yards.
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Here in Iowa we are having a heat wave. It is 80 degrees and really dry with no mosquito. So deer hunting is great. No shirt no mosquito and no cold toes. Thought I would post a picture from the stand. This is one of my favorite spots. There is a large hill behind me and creek in front and this spot creates a funnel that pinches the deer together as they come through. So just for the record the last shot was 21 and no deer yet. I am headed back out this morning.
(http://i1131.photobucket.com/albums/m559/iowabow2/flint/2011-10-05162148.jpg)
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Good luck John, I'm in a popup ground blind this morning. I'm hoping we both get shots.
George
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I just can't pull it together guys missed three time this morning on 2 two deer one at 6 yards one at 15 and then 20. The first shot I can't blame on me alltogether see all was going well till I got within 4 inches of full draw that is when things got bad the deer suddenly stopped and sidestepped real fast just I was releasing the arrow and I was committed. The shock of missing a shot like that completly took me off my game for the next two shots. I can hunt but can't hit. This is going to come together one of these times. Well headed to the knapin at oakland mills. Good luck g. Well the count is 24 just for the record.
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Sorry to hear that John. I missed a young buck at 15' last night. It happens to all of us. I think it is a lot easier to shoot a deer at 15yds than it is 15ft. This a little like knapping. Soon it'll all fall into place. 2 hogs just came through but didn't give me a shot. Still hoping for one of the 5 does hanging around here. Starting to rain now.
George
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You'll get the next deer that comes in John...look for a big fat deer tick just back of it's shoulder and smash that bug with a piece of Chert!
Are you seeing deer move much in that heat? It is 80+ here too, has been since Tuesday and will be until next thursday and I wasn't even going to bother sitting out for a hunt with the weather this hot but maybe I am throwing away good days of hunting???
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The hunting has been great. The deer are moving just like winter and on the same time frame. Warm weather is great for hunting it just is great this year because no bugs. The knapin was great now time to hit the woods for the afternoon hunt.
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Well, how is it going?
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Not good, my bow is 40 lbs and is not getting the penetration that I want so I have been spending the last week working hard to get a new bow knocked out but finding time to tiller it is an issue with so many activities at work and family. This weekend I shot another doe and she jumped the string and I hit behind the lung and very little penetration and no blood trail. The arrow left with the deer. I might as well be using a Nerf bow. I am setting everything up during the hunt as deer are coming in. I was able stand, pick the hole and wait for the deer to step in and it even stopped as I pulled the sting back I made sure to pick a spot and had a great release. The deer was looking right at me and would have seen everything.
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John we are all pulling for ya. Please just go find a deer and kill the damn thing.
Lane
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lol I know man! this is really an unbelievable tale With each shot I think this is it and then I come up empty. Everyone should get a laugh out of what you are about to read. I was a medal winning military shooter that competed against other branches and countries. At that time I worked really hard to be a great marksman. I approached this challenge with the same attitude, I worked really hard to be the best marksman with this bow that I can be. I have only been doing this for 1 deer season and this is my second so I am not going to be to hard on myself. Now on the other hand I have had more than my fair share of chances. The count is 25 shoots no deer but the up side is that I did not have to shoot 18 times for the next hit so I am getting a lot better. This year I have fired 5 times, got hair on one deer, hit twice and two clean misses. These are deer that I watch all year from the house so I feel real bad about the bad hits but I know that they were not fatal. I try real hard to focus on the next hunt and not on the failures. Each hunt teaches me how to react for the next one. I am getting real good at running through the process to make a good shot. Now 25 shots is still something to be proud of because that takes some really good hunting skills to accomplish that! I am a much better hunter now because I have been hunting primitive. Sorry for the long post.
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A primitive bow is the hardest thing to shoot well that I have ever tried. I have been involved with competitive firearm shooting for almost 45 years . Had three ranges set up just down the road at my father-in-law's farm. When he died a couple of years ago the family decided to cut the timber so that a little money would be there for the ma-in-law. All of my ranges were destroyed. That was the incentive for me to take up archery full time cause I gotta shoot something. Never intended to build bows. That just sorta happened. Haven't been at it but about 18 months. Guess I am better than I was but sure have a long way to go.
You are having a truly memorable time period in your hunting life. Twenty five shots at deer in less than 2 seasons. At bow range.If you ever decide to sneak up on me , tell me first. And John, as you already know, a 40# bow will easily do the job. Don't blame you for changing up in fact it makes perfect sense.
You next shot should be at that damn monkey on your back.
Lane
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I finish the bow and took it out for a short hunt tonight. I had a buck walk right into the stand and stop at 40 yards and just stand for about 10 mins. Then he laid down and just looked forward in my direction for and hour while I stood and tried to shift my weight from foot to foot. Then stood up and walk around at forty yards for another 45 minutes then walked off. Now this sounds like a real bad deal but it was the buck that I saw fighting at the beginning of the season. This is the buck that lost an antler. I was not real excited about shooting a 2 point buck. All I could think of was a picture of me with my first deer with a busted rack. Truth is I would have been glad to have the meat. Kinda cool to spend 3 hours deer hunting and have 2 hours of it filled with watching a deer. I have his timing down now!
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I have missed about a dozen deer with both compounds and recurves.... All shooting over them....
I watched an old vhs tape slowed down of archery kill shots. A whitetail deer's first move at the hint of danger is straight down. Like a runner dropping into the starting block. They are faster than our arrows, I promise you. I started shooting for a point about midway between the heart and the deer's knee. I started making nice heart/lung hits after that. I still miss some deer, but it sure has gotten better.
Pick a spot... where he will drop to when your arrow arrives. This tendancy to shoot high is magnified when you shoot from a treestand. I have gotten best results from placing my little lock on stand about six to eight feet off the ground. I don't think you have to be that high off the ground to be effective.
Your equipment and your shooting are fine.
Hope this helps. anyway, I certainly admire your tenacity. Good luck.
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I just don't know why thing will not come together with this primitive stuff I have fired at 26 deer and not kill one yet. This morning I shot a deer at 10 yards and the deer was able to turn before the arrow arrived and it was hit in the front (not side) shoulder. She was broad side to me sniffing the air. I released the arrow and watch the deer turn before the arrow made it to the spot I had picked. No blood trail. Arrow gone and point gone. Searched for hours hoping the deer would put the arrow so I would not have to make another. If I was hunting with a wheel bow I would have killed a couple of herds. I am not sure what I could have done differently. I did everything text book. This was just not meant to happen. Headed back out this afternoon to try a new piece of ground.
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I was hunting with the 40lbs bow not the new one because the finish is not dry
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Hunted the new ground and found a good spot. I saw three deer using a creek to make their way to an open field. As I was leaving a neighbor was waiting at my truck and wanted to know who I was and what I was doing (neighborhood watch country style). After filling him in on the details he told me that the deer I saw cross every night in the same place. So I have inside info that works with the sighting info. The spot is deep in a valley with steep 45 degree sides. I have a plan now and I just need the right wind to make it happen now. I think if I place myself 15yards up the hill and shoot down might be the plan. A stand would be to high and I would be sighted as they were moving in from above. I have been placing cover between me and the deer so I can see the approach and be at 1/4 draw a second before they step out into an opening. I just don't like being down in the valley but I have no other options. Any suggestion on a step up like this. It is a V shaped valley no access to the ground they are coming in from. They cut straight down from the side of the ridge to the creek. and only are on the ground for 200 yards and using the creek bed as a trail before they hit the field. I cant hunt the field.
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John,
I don't like to hunt ravines if the deer are traveling their length as the wind almost always follows the ravine no matter how it blows up on the flat ground. However, if you have a spot where they pretty much cross and you can get the prevailing wind in the gully blowing your way it can be a deadly setup. I don't see anything wrong with your plan as long as you aren't skylit. Murphy dictates that all deer killed in a ravine run to the very bottom. ;)
Good luck.
George
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:o Come on brother! You got me checking this thread everyday now! I think that the little ravine sounds like a great place to end this drought. I want to see some bright red results in a photo soon. Pulling for you down in Alabama.
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OK here is the set up...nasty wind in my woods going every direction and a doe walks in at 7:23 I manage to stand up and get my feet like I want and the deer walks to 25 turns broadside like it is going back where it came from and I let an arrow fly. It missed by 4 inches deer spooks and runs toward me 5 yards I notch an arrow only inch by inch whenever the deer is looking around to figure things out (i am getting good at doing that because I have had a lot of practice). it looks like it is going to walk to my right and I come to half draw one more step and it's a done deal but unexpectedly it turns to my left into a huge opening and it is looking the opposite direction so I come to full draw and hold 1 seconds as I check everything and I release the arrow. It goes into the feathers but is a little to far back. The 53 lbs bow passed through the deer. I got out of the stand 30 minutes later and saw blood on the ground right where I hit her. I trailed the deer 150 yards and noticed that she was headed for thick cover so I called off the search for 6 hours till I am off work and she has time to bleed out. The trail is a wash with blood and coming out both sides. Feet are dragging, the deer left the main trail for cover so things don't look good for the doe.
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Woohoo. I'm betting your drought is over. Hope you find her pronto.
George
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Told you that a stronger bow would do it ::) ::)!
Lane
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Volumes have been argued on this subject across many forums on the internet so I'll be careful what I say here. If shooting the bow instinctively isn't working for you don't feel like less of a man for try an aiming technique. I chuckled when I read some of the comments that say with a rifle or muzzleloader the hunter doesn't miss. No, because you are aiming the rifle at a spot. If you do the same with a bow you will most likely hit. I would even suggest you mark your riser with a marker to know where you should aim for 15 yards and get a clean kill than wound deer trying to make it happen. There is nothing wrong with instinctive shooting but just like everyone doesn't hit a jump shot on the basketball court naturally, not everyone can look at a spot and hit it right off with a bow. Again, this isn't a measure of manhood, but rather an enjoyable sport in which you find success. At the end of the day you are going out to kill an animal so I would suggest you experiment with some aiming techniques. I'd be glad to help out if you want some suggestions. Till then best of luck.
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Okay! this sounds promising. a pass through. A good bloodtrail. Outstanding!
To me, there is a big difference in forty lbs. of bow and fifty plus... I have killed deer with a recurve pulling forty-three lbs., but I do most of my hunting with bows right around fifty. Man, I admire your sticking to this and getting it done! Lots of folks would have thrown in the towel.
I hope this story ends with some savory anecdote about backstraps or tenderloins.....
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OK here is the deal I found the deer it was not a lung shot but went between both ribs and thought the liver and spleen. It bleed out fast and died 50 yards from where I stopped looking. I feel like I made the right decision to wait. Working hard to clean and pkg the deer now. Wow thank you all for the help. I think my big problem was calming down and being in the moment and waiting for the right time to pull so the deer would not see me. I have been shooting deer that knew what was up and were jumping the string. I got this now!! It just took me working hard and not making all the same mistakes. And a lot of practice shooting.
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My arrow is hand made red oak that I split from a log. The fiber holding the feathers is made from milkweed and is glued with deer hide glue the arrowhead is attached with pinepitch and did not break. Leg tendon sinew was used to tie the point and the point is made from the flint from my creek.
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Very happy for you...glad to see this ending for you. ;)
I still hope to bloody one of your points yet this season!!! 8)
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Now that's what I'm talking about! Things will go better now for you. Congratulations John.
George
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You ain't beat less you quit and you didn't. Very cool John, proud of you.
You need a new challenge.
Ever try a spear?
Lane
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OK the final count. I fired 28 times before this came together but I really believe that I could do it much easier tomorrow. I called the game wardon and he told me that it could be tagged as a doe because the antlers were so small. Spear noway OK maybe. Thank you all for helping me build bows make points and all the other help. Also if you have not fired 28 times to try and kill a deer you're not trying.
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Congratulations! A hell of an accomplishment. I am very happy for you. That's real hunting.
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Very cool,congrats, you need to put this up in the 2011 hunting section where all can see,some folks may not check tihis thread lite we did.Again congrats nice job . :) :)
Pappy
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Sweet news indeed. Congrats and good luck on the rest of the season.
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Going back out this weekend! I feel differently about the whole thing now because, I have a much great sense of confidence. I understand much better about when to pull and won't feel so hurried now to make the shot. Funny how when I started this I thought all I needed to was to make a bow and then I learned that the arrow can be as difficult to make. I had no idea that learning to shoot the bow would be so difficult. Then I had to place all my stands in location that benefited short distance shots. At about the same time I was still improving my arrowhead making techniques and learned more about how to correctly attach points. but the most difficult thing was two fold: first I had to relearn to shoot the bow from the stand, then I had to learn when to move when the deer are real close in near the stand. It is easy with a compound you draw when they are way out and wait for the shot. Much different when using a primitive bow. Our ansesters were very sneaky! Funny when you start this journey you have this bright idea that you are going to make a bow and step in the woods and kill a deer in two weeks. It really take a year or more to learn all of this stuff.
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Congrats again. It is a process... It is very different from hunting with modern gear. Saturday morning I spent one hour and fifteen minutes with a pretty little eight point feeding and sneezing and scratching himself and hanging around within thirty five yards or so of my stand... A shot that I would have been comfortable with never presented itself. Even so, I went home high on the experience. Don't you feel that switching to primitive gear has made you a better hunter? Have you ever been hit right on the top of the head with a chestnut oak acorn with a deer staring at you? You can't get this kind of entertainment anywhere else. I love hunting whitetail deer! I think you never stop learning new things about them.
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I had an acorn hit the limb next to me when a doe was coming in and that made her look up. And I had a buck nap 40 yards from my stand and I never got a shot. This really made me a much better than I though at first but now I can't see me going back to modern equipment in anyway. It is interesting that you have to make a lot of stuff if you hunt a lot. I am in the process of making about ten bows so that I don't have to rely on one for all my hunting.
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OK here is the setup. I was a little late to the stand and after I got there the sun just started lighting the forest floor. I heard a crash from the ridge to the south so I stood and tried to see but it was still to dark. I sat back down and put my head back on the stand while I waited for more light then I heard foot steps running toward the stand and they stopped suddenly. I very slowly stood and started looking for dark out of place forms around the stand. I picked out one place that looked dark for no reason and waited for more light. I thought I saw movement but could not be sure. 15 mins no sound no movement something had to be in close. Then the sun lit the floor just enough for a glimpse of a form walking in but it did not make sense because that was not where the sound was coming from. This deer walked to 30 yards and started smelling the other dark form which I could tell was a very large doe. Then he move behind and did what bucks do during the rut but she walked out so he was without. By now I could see very well and she walked my direction and stopped where you see the point of my arrow. I took careful aim and just before I released I remembered to resight for a lower shot because she was close. I fired and I heard the arrow hit the tree on the other side of the deer. At first I thought I just shot high but looked at the point of impact it is not higher than my arrow. The deers shoulder was behind the large tree and the lungs were lined up with small one behind her. The belly was lined up with the limb I was shooting over. OK the point of all of this is we have large deer in Iowa this was a large doe so WOW this doe dropped real fast to keep from being hit! My point also hit in the saw mark of the tree and you can see the flint in it. I had many markers so I know it was not my aim but the unbelievable ability for a deer to avoid being hit. How cool is that. I have included a picture of the broken point.
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The flint in the tree and the flint in my havd are two different pieces also the sinew was on the right side of the tree and the broken part of the point. (Seen in my hand) was found 1 foot to the left and 1 foot back of the tree trunk