Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: iowabow on December 24, 2010, 09:14:38 pm
-
I am working on arrow shafts and arrowheads, my deer tendon is now all dried now and I have made pine glue so can someone illustrate the accepted practice for tying the arrowhead with the deer tendon strand (please). Maybe you could take a group of photos using a piece of string to illustrate the steps. thanks guys.
-
well once you get the shaft notched for the point
melt some pine pitch,apply pine pitch to the shaft and insert point
let that cool
you can shoot it just like that if you want
or you can insert point into notch on shaft,seperate the sinew strandes,chew some and till totaly pliable
and wrap tightly,but not so tight it breaks the sinew
or you can do it like i like doing it nad thats using the pine pitch and then wrapping with the sinew ;)
heres a pic of a few i made last summer
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/2944/1002324.jpg)
-
I do not recommend using just pine pitch, it may or may not hold up to impact. Pine pitch and sinew work much better. Also, you should wrap 1/4" to 1/2" down the shaft, it prevents the point splitting the shaft if it hits bone. Make sure there isn't a shoulder where the shaft ends on the point. You can use the ppg to make that a smooth slope, the arrow penetrates much better. Bill
-
ya it doesnt show up very well in my pic
but the sinew is wrapped about .75" up the shaft behind the point
i also use the pine pitch to help make a smooth transition from point to shaft
-
I use when I can back sinew because of it's leanth.
-
These were my hunting arrows for this year. When I haft stone I make a single saw cut in the end of the shaft to the depth I want it then open the slot to fit each point individually because each stone point is different. I use a thin bladed knife and sand paper folded over and over until the point is fitted into the slot. I then drip hot pitch glue into the slot, warm the point and press it into place. At this time I spin test the arrow to be sure it spins true. If all goes well here I then chew a strand of back strap sinew until soft and make my wrap. I usually use 2 or 3 pieces of this long sinew to be sure the point is secure then wrap it up the shaft a bit. After the sinew is dry I spin the shaft again to ensure it still spins straight then seal it with pitch varnish. If the point ever becomes loose or out of whack I reheat the point slightly to let the pitch glue adhere to the point again.
My pitch glue is pine pitch, bees wax and finely ground charcoal and my pitch varnish is pitch dissolved in denatured alcohol.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/primitive%20archer/09huntingarrows003.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/PatBNC/primitive%20archer/09huntingarrows005.jpg)
-
OK very cool why add the bees wax. does it make it more plastic less brittle ?
-
OK very cool why add the bees wax. does it make it more plastic less brittle ?
Cause it smells good ;D
-
Hey pat are those natural shoot shafts?
-
Those arrows are sourwood and one is hill cane.
I add the bees wax to pitch glue to make it less brittle. The ground charcoal adds body. You can use bear or deer fat instead of the bees wax and dried deer and rabbit dung or sawdust instead of the charcoal.
-
Could you tell me the ratio of bees wax to pine pitch. I made some this summer with milkweed fiber charcoal and pine pitch
-
First off the charcoal and milkweed fibers(as are dried deer or rabbit dung and saw dust) are there for the same reason; to add body to the mix. The bees wax(bear or deer fat, etc) make the pitch glue less brittle by softening it a bit.
I have never measured my mixtures. It is probably 2 parts pitch and one part each of wax and charcoal. Someone, maybe Rich, mentioned one time about different tempertatures(local) would have a different mix. For colder climates one mixture and for hotter climates another. My mixtures are never made all at one time. I will first melt the pitch and add a little bees wax, let it cool and test it. If not right heat it again and add a bit more until it "feels" right to me. When that mixture seems correct I begin adding the charcoal(or other body building ingredient) until I like the way it feels.
When I make pitch glue and pitch varnish I start with hard brittle pitch and not sticky pitch. The volatile oils should have evaporated first. If I start with sticky pitch I cook it until these oils have evaporated; another trial and error. If you make your mixture with sticky pitch your glue or varnish will be sticky when it has cured.
Be very careful when cooking pitch because it is very volatile and WILL combust if overheated. This can be very dangerour if precautions are not in place.
-
I use artificial sinew and crazy glue!
(http://www.fototime.com/%7B825D9CD6-4BA6-4104-8B6B-E252F11FF021%7D/standardpict/exp=f&modt=39740.5619766551&ssdyn=1/Zambi%2520037.jpg)
(http://www.fototime.com/%7BD4D3BF55-0B03-490C-BF04-3FEEB47BE8C1%7D/standardpict/exp=f&modt=39740.5619766551&ssdyn=1/Zambi%2520022.jpg)
-
Here's a short step-by-step in pictures:
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/2010-12-28-Attaching%20Arrowhead/DSC_0879.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/2010-12-28-Attaching%20Arrowhead/DSC_0882.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/2010-12-28-Attaching%20Arrowhead/DSC_0883.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/2010-12-28-Attaching%20Arrowhead/DSC_0884.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/2010-12-28-Attaching%20Arrowhead/DSC_0886.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/2010-12-28-Attaching%20Arrowhead/DSC_0887.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/2010-12-28-Attaching%20Arrowhead/DSC_0896.jpg)
-
i made some field tips with artificial sinew but after 6 or so shots the sinew starts to frey on the tip . how can i stop that?
-
i made some field tips with artificial sinew but after 6 or so shots the sinew starts to frey on the tip . how can i stop that?
Smear some more super glue on it and smooth it down. Work fast or you'll be stuck like crazy.
Mark
-
I tried artificial sinew and had the same trouble. I got some advice from some friends and if you use trueoil over superglue it will help keep it from breaking down the strands in artificial sinew. However I switched to using real sinew and that works a whole lot better in my opinion. The neat thing about real sinew is as it drys it shrinks tightening everything up nicely. I use real sinew now to wrap my nocks and feathers also. I just got a ton of it from a buddy of mine in the UP.
-
I agree with most of the above,I have tried artificial sinew and it will work in a pinch but real sinew is mush better in my opinion. If you don't mind chewing it,it works even better than soaking it.I use back strap sinew for this,I am sure any would work but back strap is longer on white tail than the leg and that is all I have access to on a regular basic. I then seal over it after it is good and dry with tru oil and you are good to go. No freying. I have a good friend that only uses artificial sinew and he dose the same as Mark,I just don't like the bother. :)
Pappy
-
wow guys those are some nice looking arrows
-
Question that I would like some input on. I can identify 3 functions of the sinew 1: hold the very tip of the wood together in the even that the shoulder of the pine pitch breaks this keep the wood from separating at the tip of the wooden part of the arrow. 2: warps of sinew around the notches in the arrowhead that continue to the shaft then hold the arrowhead on in the shaft (because if only warped at the tip then the arrowhead could separate from the shaft), 3: warps of a 1/2 inch on the shaft prevent the arrowhead from splitting the halving due to impact. I want to have a good functional agreement before I move to my next question. Does everyone agree on the function or are there more?
-
I don't quite understand #1 but yes for #2 and #3.
-
I'm with Pat. :)
Pappy
-
OK 1 is the end or top of the halving, the gap between the stone and the wood could get material into it and cause it to split so the sinew that is wrapped around the arrowhead keeps it from splintering off. I know i am over thinking this but I have a point or would like to discuss the best way to wrap so that all 3 are done with the best practice. I thought that you all have so many great ideas that maybe we could demo it. For example do you wrap three times around or once then do you cross and warp the shaft and then back to the notches. basically I was wondering if you guys could share your process. I will photo how I do it and then maybe someone has has a better or good idea could also share their technique. I just want to make sure we agreed the 3 main goals first.
-
I usually get the wrap started on the shaft below the head then cross to the notch and around the shaft and cross the other direction and a few turns around between the noches and back down to and around the shaft. Then I take another piece of sinew and wrap around what I already wrapped on the shaft and down the shaft an inch or so.
I chew the sinew to get it soft. While I'm making the first wrap I'm chewing the second one. When the wrapping is done I lick my fingers and squeeze as I go around the wrap. The sinew and saliva makes its own glue so no other glue or tying is needed. When it is completely dry I seal the wrap with pine varnish. I have also used TBIII, Duco cement and super glue to seal sinew wraps.
-
ok I will try to do some drawing of that and post them
-
Sinew by itself works OK. Glue by itself works better than sinew. But the combination of glue and sinew works GREAT. The style of the arrowhead also determines how it will be attached.
One purpose of the arrowhead to is provide a way to put a hole into the target and cause bleeding and/or puncture trauma. It only needs to work once, in this case. Eventually, the archer gets to know what the minimum amount of wrapping/glue will allow the arrowhead to do its business.
Also, there are descriptions in the old literature from the frontier that some arrowheads were tied on so that they would become loose in the wound and remain inside the wound or make it very painful to remove. Some arrowheads have only one notch on one side, for example. It was said that this made the arrowhead "turn" inside the wound if the arrow was pulled and caused "extra" misery to one's enemy. So, there are sometimes reasons for an arrowhead to be "imperfectly" attached.
Clear as mud? >:D ;)
-
Good input I will include this in the final write up!
-
Here is a drawing of how I tie on an arrow head part 1
I hope this make sense
(http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l567/iowabow/drawing1.jpg)
-
part 2
(http://i1124.photobucket.com/albums/l567/iowabow/2011-01-08064408.jpg)
-
if this is not a good way to do it please ring in!
-
That "nail knot" will work fine with threads and string but in my experience not too well with sinew. The sinew is lible to break when you try to pull it back through the previous wrap. That's why I chew the sinew first then wrap tight and let the sinew glue itself down. Some folks will dip the sinew in hide glue instead of chewing with the same end results.
-
One purpose of the arrowhead is to provide a way to put a hole into the target and cause bleeding and/or puncture trauma. It only needs to work once, in this case. Eventually, the archer gets to know what the minimum amount of wrapping/glue will allow the arrowhead to do its business.
Also, there are descriptions in the old literature from the frontier that some arrowheads were tied on so that they would become loose in the wound and remain inside the wound or make it very painful to remove. Some arrowheads have only one notch on one side, for example. It was said that this made the arrowhead "turn" inside the wound if the arrow was pulled and caused "extra" misery to one's enemy. So, there are sometimes reasons for an arrowhead to be "imperfectly" attached. (Jackcrafy)
****I need input on this
Can you think of other objectives?
Objective 1. Point remains in the target: benefit could be, the shaft could be recovered and arrowhead could continue to do damage and would be difficult to remove
Objective 2. Point remains attached : Benefit could be, the arrow keeps the wound open so the animal continues to bleed making tracking easier.
I have seen deer bite an arrow and remove the arrow with its teeth so is it better that the arrowhead come out with the shaft? What if it was a bad hit?
-
You are correct pat that has been the case for me as well. I dont pull it all the way just till it is real tight. I like the iidea of the chewing. Hey let me show you what I have been worling on here. I am combining the post so that it looks like this draft. The synthetic stuff is not put in yet. Just a draft!
How to Tie and Arrowhead
This document was created to demonstrate some common techniques used for tying on arrowheads. I tried to include ideas from every post and appreciate everyone’s help on this project. If I did not give you credit please let me know. I tried to arrange the information in the following way:
1. History/Purpose
2. Function
3. Materials
Pine pitch/ different formulas
Sinew/synthetic
a. Traditional
b. Primitive
4. Techniques
a. Traditional
b. Primitive
5. Spinning
1. History/Purpose
One purpose of the arrowhead is to provide a way to put a hole into the target and cause bleeding and/or puncture trauma. It only needs to work once, in this case. Eventually, the archer gets to know what the minimum amount of wrapping/glue will allow the arrowhead to do its business.
Also, there are descriptions in the old literature from the frontier that some arrowheads were tied on so that they would become loose in the wound and remain inside the wound or make it very painful to remove. Some arrowheads have only one notch on one side, for example. It was said that this made the arrowhead "turn" inside the wound if the arrow was pulled and caused "extra" misery to one's enemy. So, there are sometimes reasons for an arrowhead to be "imperfectly" attached. (Jackcrafy)
****I need input on this
Can you think of other objectives?
Objective 1. Point remains in the target: benefit could be, the shaft could be recovered and arrowhead could continue to do damage and would be difficult to remove
Objective 2. Point remains attached : Benefit could be, the arrow keeps the wound open so the animal continues to bleed making tracking easier.
I have seen deer bite an arrow and remove the arrow with its teeth so is it better that the arrowhead come out with the shaft? What if it was a bad hit?
2. Function
I can identify 3 functions of the sinew 1: hold the very tip of the wood together in the even that the shoulder of the pine pitch breaks this keep the wood from separating at the tip of the wooden part of the arrow. 2: warps of sinew around the notches in the arrowhead that continue to the shaft then hold the arrowhead on in the shaft (because if only warped at the tip then the arrowhead could separate from the shaft), 3: warps of a 1/2 inch on the shaft prevent the arrowhead from splitting the halving due to impact. (Iowabow)
3. Materials
Shaft halving
Photo here
These were my hunting arrows for this year. When I haft stone I make a single saw cut in the end of the shaft to the depth I want it then open the slot to fit each point individually because each stone point is different. I use a thin bladed knife and sand paper folded over and over until the point is fitted into the slot.
Pine pitch/ different formulas
My pitch glue is pine pitch, bees wax and finely ground charcoal and my pitch varnish is pitch dissolved in denatured alcohol. (Pat B)
I add the bees wax to pitch glue to make it less brittle. The ground charcoal adds body. You can use bear or deer fat instead of the bees wax and dried deer and rabbit dung or sawdust instead of the charcoal. (Pat B)
Charcoal and milkweed fibers(as are dried deer or rabbit dung and saw dust) are there for the same reason; to add body to the mix. The bees wax(bear or deer fat, etc) make the pitch glue less brittle by softening it a bit.
I have never measured my mixtures. It is probably 2 parts pitch and one part each of wax and charcoal. Someone, maybe Rich, mentioned one time about different temperatures (local) would have a different mix. For colder climates you might use one mixture and for hotter climates another. My mixtures are never made all at one time. I will first melt the pitch and add a little bees wax, let it cool and test it. If not right heat it again and add a bit more until it "feels" right to me. When that mixture seems correct I begin adding the charcoal (or other body building ingredient) until I like the way it feels.
When I make pitch glue and pitch varnish I start with hard brittle pitch and not sticky pitch. The volatile oils should have evaporated first. If I start with sticky pitch I cook it until these oils have evaporated; another trial and error. If you make your mixture with sticky pitch your glue or varnish will be sticky when it has cured.
Be very careful when cooking pitch because it is very volatile and WILL combust if overheated. This can be very dangerous if precautions are not in place. (Pat B)
Sinew/Synthetic
a. Traditional
b. Primitive
4. Techniques
The style of the arrowhead also determines how it will be attached. Sinew by itself works OK. Glue by itself works better than sinew. But the combination of glue and sinew works GREAT. This idea combines both the traditional and the primitive.
here is a link to a great post on techniques:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,27472.msg367186.html#msg367186 (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,27472.msg367186.html#msg367186)
a. Traditional
I have also used TBIII, Duco cement and super glue to seal sinew wraps. (Pat B)
b. Primitive
I use real sinew and that works a whole lot better in my opinion than synthetic. The neat thing about real sinew is as it dries it shrinks tightening everything up nicely. I use real sinew now to wrap my nocks and feathers also. (Jon)
I have tried artificial sinew and it will work in a pinch but real sinew is much better in my opinion. If you don't mind chewing sinew the results are even better than soaking it. I use back strap sinew for this, I am sure any would work but back strap is longer on white tail than the leg and that is all I have access to on a regular bases. I then seal over it, after it is good and dry, with tru oil and you are good to go. No fretting. (Pappy)
I chew the sinew to get it soft. While I'm making the first wrap I'm chewing the second one. When the wrapping is done I lick my fingers and squeeze as I go around the wrap. The sinew and saliva makes its own glue so no other glue or tying is needed. When it is completely dry I seal the wrap with pine varnish. (Pat B)
5. Spinning
I then drip hot pitch glue into the slot, warm the point and press it into place . At this time I spin test the arrow to be sure it spins true. If all goes well here I then chew a strand of back strap sinew until soft and make my wrap. I usually use 2 or 3 pieces of this long sinew to be sure the point is secure then wrap it up the shaft a bit.After the sinew is dry I spin the shaft again to ensure it still spins straight then seal it with pitch varnish. If the point ever becomes loose or out of whack I reheat the point slightly to let the pitch glue adhere to the point again.
Pat B
-
Lots of good info here. When you complete it I will "stuicky" it to the top of the page so it will be readily available for all to see.
Thanks for your hard work compiling all this info.
-
will do! I will include drawings and and photos and any info that anyone else wants to add so jump right in.
-
Wow... now I get the questions! You're writing an information piece. I like it. :)
Some more things to think about:
Not all arrows were intended for hunting, of course. Many were made for war, perhaps the majority.
Another reason for an arrowhead to remain in the wound would be to cause an infection that would eventually kill the target. Obviously, this is more desirable in war than in hunting.
Also, if a war arrowhead remains in the wound the arrow cannot be fired back (by the target) with the same potentially deadly effectiveness.
Arrowheads can also be made in a certain way in order to prove ownership. If such an arrowhead remains in a wound and the target dies, the arrowhead can by used to identify the killer.
Other points:
Many Native American arrowheads were tied on with only diagonal lashings on the arrowhead. This detail is often overlooked.
Fibers from various plants were used to tie on arrowheads whenever they were readily available.
-
ok his is a rewite of 1
1. History/Purpose
One purpose of the arrowhead is to provide a way to put a hole into the target and cause bleeding and/or puncture trauma. It only needs to work once, in this case. Eventually, the archer gets to know what the minimum amount of wrapping/glue will allow the arrowhead to do its business. Not all arrows were intended for hunting, of course. Many were made for war, perhaps the majority. (Jackcrafy)
The wrapping/tying is determined by the intended propose. Of course the intended purpose is to destroy the target but how and why can vary the attachment techniques. Wrapping an arrowhead then has two objectives: Objective 1: Point detaches and arrowhead remains in the target. Objective 2: point remains attached to the arrow shaft.
Although the intended outcome of each objective will remain the same the reasons/benefits for the objective varies greatly. Traditionally/Historically we see these techniques were used in both hunting and in warfare. Arrowheads that detach can have many benefits. Arrowheads that remains in a wound can cause an infection that would eventually kill the target. Obviously, this is more desirable in war than in hunting. (Jackcrafy) A war arrowhead that remains in the wound destroys the arrow making it impossible to fired it back (by the target) with the same potentially deadly effectiveness. Arrowheads can also be made in a certain way in order to prove ownership. If such an arrowhead remains in a wound and the target dies, the arrowhead can be used to identify the killer.
Also, there are descriptions in the old literature from the frontier that some arrowheads were tied on so that they would become loose in the wound and remain inside the wound or make it very painful to remove. Some arrowheads have only one notch on one side, for example. It was said that this made the arrowhead "turn" inside the wound if the arrow was pulled and caused "extra" misery to one's enemy. So, there are sometimes reasons for an arrowhead to be "imperfectly" attached. (Jackcrafy)
Persistent hunting in an environment that lends itself to easy tracking, like snow, a hunter might find it beneficial to leave a point in an animal so injury to the animal continues until another arrow can be fired (not often a technique used by modern bow hunter). (Iowabow)
An arrowhead that remains attached keeps the wound open. In warfare and in hunting the target will continues to bleed because the shaft keeps the wound open this making tracking easier. My first year hunting with a primitive bow was a very difficult transition. For 20 years I hunted with a compound bow and I was very successful I might add but primitive bow hunting is completely different. So my prospective is not from what the arrow does when it hits a target but what it does when it does not. I fired 20 times during my first season and hit only one deer. Although I was not successful at hitting my target I gained a lot of information about what an arrow does when it hits frozen dirt, trees, limbs, and rocks (rocks destroy arrowheads). Hitting frozen dirt will not break an arrowhead every time or destroy the wrappings. Hitting limbs can remove an arrowhead from the pine pitch but if it is tied well it will remain somewhat attached. Shooting an arrow in the frozen ground is good way to lose an arrowhead if it is not tied on well. When you pull an arrow from the ground look closely at where you hit because the arrowhead may still be in the ground.
Another lesson came when I fired twice at two deer I hit one. I pulled the arrow from the ground and look at the arrow and noticed no arrowhead. Question where on the ground did I pull this from? I did manage to dig it from the dirt but it was 11 degrees outside and the ground was freezing as I dug. I did recover the arrowhead I was happy because it takes so long to make when you are a beginner. So I heated the pine pitch with my lighter and reset the point. Sounded like a good idea at the time. I thought this would give me an extra arrow if the deer was alive. After an hour I started tracking the deer, I found the arrow and the blood trail just stopped so I started looking everywhere in the thick brush for the deer. I my attempt to locate the deer in heavy brush, a vine or twig must have snagged my arrowhead and it was gone. So the sinew serves a very important function outside of firing an arrow, it also hold the point in place if you smack your arrow in a fall of snag them in heavy brush or fire them into the dirt 19 times.
(iowabow)
In the event that you hit a deer as I did so many times with my compound bow you may want the point to remain on the shaft. The shaft keeps the wound open and the deer continues to bleed. I have seen deer bite an arrow and remove the arrow with its teeth so is it better that the arrowhead to come out with the shaft? What if it was a bad hit? My option is twofold: if the injury was not lethal (bad hit to a shoulder or rump) I would not want the arrowhead to remain in the deer. I might get a chance to kill the deer at later date (I fired on the same deer 4 times this year and I named her lucky). Also if it takes me such a long time to make a good arrowhead I want to recover it from deer or dirt.
-
When you get to the sinewing. I start by making a loop laying it up the shaft past where you want stop the sinew. To stop spliting. Leave the shot tag of sinew well past the head.. Start rapping at the end of your shaft. Rap up past the head as far up the shaft as you wish. Wend you get to the loop. 1/4 Inch past the head is what I do. This stops your shaft from spliting. Take the end of the sinew you've been rapping through the loop. Pull the short peice (tag) of sinew you left. Pull it with a pair of plyers and pull. This will pull your knot tight up under the sinew rap. Your knots tight and hiden. I soke in a cup of warm water a hour or so take out and put it in front of a heater for and hour or so. This draws the sinew up so tight when it drys. I Cover (seal) it before it sucks up humity and softens some. It's rock hard. I've never had a head turn when shot and Ive shot through a few shoulders INBEADED TWO IN SPINES i COULD'NT PULL OUT. Still have the spine cut outs With the arrows. Not sure of the name of the knot I'll have to look it up.
-
hey that sounds like great stuff can you post a couple of pic on how you do that? I want to make sure I get the point. I can then draw a step by step of your technique.