Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Lee Slikkers on August 15, 2011, 02:25:13 pm
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OK Guys, need some input or ideas if possible. i am letting my Hick Recurve rest for a few days so I thought I'd start up another bow.
I have a decent piece of Osage that I chased down a ring on. It is 48" long and between 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" wide depending on the grain but likely will have to end up closer to the 1 1/4" ish dimension. I'd like to do some type of Native American type bow but at the very least am thinking a 48" with slightly flipped tips. I'd rather not sinew it but if the design absolutely calls for it I am OK with that...
Thanks!!!
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Intended draw length will pretty much determine whether or not it needs sinew. So,what's the intended length of draw?
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yeah, sorry I forgot that and the desired poundage. Looking for at least a 27" draw @ #55
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Lots of sinew Lee. Being that narrow your bow may end up almost square to get that poundage!
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Lee, I had a bow in July's Bow of the Month. It is listed as the 48" Holmegaard. There are pics in the post. It is sinew-backed however, turned into a really cool bow. Thought you may want to see for ideas...
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IMHO you should sinew it and flip the tips. Besides it'll be your first sinew Joby and you need to learn how to do it anyways when you start attempting those horn bows. Consider it practice ;)
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Lee you got some good advice so far. With your drawlength and weight requirements, at least 2 layers of sinew would be laid down by me maybe 3 with the third one concentrated on running down the middle of the back. Tie the bow into some backset when applying the sinew. Now GITTERDUN! :D
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Thanks guys, sounds like a good plan (sinew, etc) I assume the profile will be a straight stick as opposed to any type of mild pryamid?
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yeah at 1 1/4" I would straight profile it to about 6" from the tips and narrow it down from there.
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Thanks a ton Jon, will do...got it all laid out, cut down and rasped to the profile lines now...just need to reduce the thickness now.
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OK guys, got a short recap on the progress. I have flipped the tips and tiller her out to a 20" draw where she is pulling #57. The bow is 47" ntn and currently has limbs and handle area all the same with a rectangle type shape. Couple questions...1) should this shape remain or should I round off or facet down the hard edges on the back & belly?...and 2) if I sinew (probably should or will have to as I get further and further past the 20" draw) how do you prep the back before laying down the coarses?
I wish I had pics to share but it seems I lost my camera while out hawking and flying my Goshawk (makes #2 lost in this manner ::) )
Thanks!
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I would round off the edges Lee. Round is always stronger than square. I dont do anything to the backs prior to sinew. I use TBIII and just make sure the surface is clean and very lightly roughed up. Thats about it.
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Lee....what type of glue are you going to use? In my limited experience in using both hide and tb3 I like the hide better. Its a lil more work but well worth the effort. Run up to the family fare and pick up some Knox gelatin. Mix two ounces of water to each individual packet. And read your bible on sinewing and follow it along.
Also is your bow limbs reflexed besides your flipped tips? If not induce a lil before. Or induce it by reverse bracing and sinewing or hanging some weight from it.
I might take some heat from guys about using hide over tb3 ,but trust me hide is better, and you'll be using real glues with the horn bows anyways,so use the real stuff for practice for your later endeavors.
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I'm saying hide glue as well. I've used TBIII but I like the color or maybe I should say the lack of color from the hide glue better. I read somewhere that hide glue is second in strength only to 2-ton epoxy.
As far as surface prep, hit it a little with some sandpaper,then ACETONE, ACETONE, ACETONE.....
Did I mention getting it clean with some Acetone? :o
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Thanks PD, I was thinking the same thing about rounding it...it's next on list of tasks on this bow.
Chris, I am going to be using Hide Glue, have some fish bladders and I may do a 50/50 hide glue & fish glue for this project. How much reflex do you think would be adequate for his build? Are you thinking the whole limb or mostly at the handle area?
Thanks Jon, got a bottle of acetone and I use it to wipe down all my bows before I back with skins, bark or first coat of Tru-Oil. will do
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How much and where you put the reflex is up to you. Id say put an inch or two in as you'll gain around an inch from the sinew drying. Do you have pics yet of the front and side profiles?
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OK, sounds good on the reflex then. I still haven't found my fricken camera, it may be gone for good if it is in the field I think it is...
I had a good weekend though, while visiting my brother up in TC I cut 2 small (4"-5") diameter Slippery Elms, 2 nice Dogwoods (honest, these ARE Dogwoods for sure) Just got in from debarking and shellacing them.
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Hide glue is the way to go. Personally i'd go for at least 6 inches of reflex by reverse bracing., but if you're not used to doing this sort of thing a couple inches will work just fine and make tillering a lot easier.
Make sure your bow has good tiller before sinewing, weigh the sinew for each limb, place on evenly and the tiller will be the same after it's cured.
Knowing this will mean that you know you can brace it at a low height after curing without risking any belly wood damage.
Stringing highly reflexed bows for the first time can be a fun experience...watch your fingers under the string on the grip.... :o
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Hey Mike, thank you very much for all the little details and help on this...I have her all rounded and am going to heat bend the limb reflex in later this afternoon. I have a bunch of sinew coming in the mail from Moscow Hide & Fur later this week and I need to pick up a double burner plate so I can reduce down some rawhide chucks, sinew scraps, fish bladders and some Knox. Need to comb out the sinew as well. This project has really caught my imagination and I am really enjoying this new build aspect so far.
Hopefully I can relocate my camera or buy a new one soon so I can start posting pics again...it's pretty boring to have a thread with only words and nothing visual to share.
Cheers!
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Well here are a couple progress pics...I had to retiller her a bit since I snapped these and I lost a bunch of weight so I am headed back to the Sinew board for 2 layers to see if I can remedy the issue. She had been pulling #65 @ 25" and she is 46" ntn
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rGyAOJkaklA/Tl2T_wMaNdI/AAAAAAAADYs/PPdR8EhG4n8/s912/DSCI0023.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pcn185WGdsA/Tl2fJ2CKY0I/AAAAAAAADZM/NseOQJL9yhQ/s912/DSCI0027.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iKq3IuKvIcs/Tl2hv1NJoYI/AAAAAAAADZc/_7SlrbY7LZc/s912/DSCI0029.JPG)
When I am done adding the additional sinew I'd like to cover the sinew with deer rawhide...with this add any weight to the draw or just protect for the sinew?
Thanks for looking!
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I could be the angle of the pic, but it looks like the lower limb is a little flat @ midlimb. I like the bow real well though Lee.
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That is coming along nicely.
John
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The rawhide will protect the sinew and hide glue from taking up ambient moisture....to some degree. It will not add any appreciable speed to the bow, in fact, it might detract a fraction of a foot per second in extra limb weight if anything.
Nice little shorty....now paint it with male kestrel colors and you are done!
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Lee: A little late on my post but I use a jig like the picture and pull it down about an inch for that length bow. Also, if you need some hide glue, let me know. I've got some I can spare.
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Thanks guys
@Jon, yeah that stiff limb is why I decided to retiller it after the pictures and how I lost my weight. I need to comb out a bunch more sinew and add 2 more layers in hopes it will get back a lot of it's poundage.
@JW...that is a good idea on the decorations! Not sure I will add the rawhide then as I want every bit of speed I can get with this bow.
@ Matt, that jig is a good idea! I actually heat treated the limbs and had them in reflex so that it almost looked like the limbs you see on a horn bow prior to opening them up. I actually could use more hide glue, what do you have to get for it?
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Hey guys, quick update and maybe some pics tomorrow. Ok, I have 2 layers of sinew on her and have her tiller evened out much better now...she is also pulling #46 @ 26" so I am just wondering how much further I can push the draw length and/or weight on her. I'd like to get another 8-10 more # out of her if possible.
Thanks!
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Lee: Sinew does work wonders for sure! For 8-10 lbs. you're gonna need to pull it back another 3-4 inches. When you draw it 26" what is your string angle? You're probably getting close, if not at 90 degrees. You don't want to risk the string pulling off the end of a limb. I think that I would stop at the 26" and be happy with it.
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Thanks Matt...I could be happy with 26", I was more thinking about adding an additional layer of sinew to try and increase the draw weight a bit more, even if I got 5 more pounds I'd feel a lot better about the build.
I don't know what the string angle is as I can't see it well when I'm drawing it but I'll have one of my boys shoot a pic or two of it tomorrow so I can see it and make sure it wasn't getting to crazy on the angle.
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For me personally id be happy with that weight. 5 more lbs isn't gonna make much of a difference. I like to have my short bows a lower poundage anyways. Its tough to shoot consistently accurate with a high poundage shorty. But that's just my personal preference and opinion. Id detail her up and slap a finish on her and call it done. It might gain a couple lbs in the drier cooler months too.
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Thats a great looking bow there Corn Flakes :laugh:
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Thank you Fruit-the-Loops!
It already looks better now than it did in those earlier pics. I have some nifty materials and ideas to use on finishing her off here over the weekend. >:D
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How long are you letting the sinew cure before working. Judging from when you posted I would say not nearly enough. Give it 10 to 14 days minimum. The osage is absorbing a lot of moisture from the sinew and both the wood and the sinew need to dry. That might be part of the reason you are loosing so much weight.
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Thanks Justin, I guess I hadn't thought about that very well...it sure felt like I had waited a long time ::) but you are right if I do the math. I'll put it up by our fan in the warmer living room and leave it be for another week or so before I mess with it any longer. Maybe I'll be happily surprised and it will have gained a couple needed pounds for me by then.
I appreciate the input!
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OK, I think I have finally waited enough for the sinew to cure so I put some lipstick on this Gal and I think she's ready to dance.
Osage Short Bow - 46" ntn
#49 @ 28" draw
Sinewed back (3 coarses) with a pair of Eastern Hognose skins to protect the sinew
Nocks and mid limb spots are wrapped with sinew
Bear fur at nocks and handle
Buff hide for handle wrap
Black Horse hair and Yellow Buck tail at the pin nocks
Thanks for looking~
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4GXXJ7K5Jo4/ToesuC3Z1iI/AAAAAAAADkc/S-Gv3R210Lo/CIMG1991.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IAiP_LhTzk0/ToesnwVO9CI/AAAAAAAADkY/tCvi4YVGJVU/CIMG1995.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1GA9Nq-Agqk/Toesc51yVnI/AAAAAAAADkM/tkwj1pgypp0/CIMG2000.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7si5nS1bEQE/ToesYYIoxDI/AAAAAAAADkI/m8GDjYEu1U8/CIMG2002.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NWLtKDYICRw/ToesU9jcIDI/AAAAAAAADkE/m4AtfmnazUo/CIMG2004.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-n7LJkUK5jZE/ToesPnF8cPI/AAAAAAAADkA/_eVcMIFqpsc/CIMG2005.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-AYcD5XHU7fI/ToesLUVAQtI/AAAAAAAADj8/zeZNHa5R0Sk/CIMG2006.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t_BP-7bukqI/ToesH9FT2YI/AAAAAAAADj4/sv5VRR9yMh4/CIMG2007.JPG)
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28" draw on 46" osage bow?... :o
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Great job Lee, that bow looks great!
George
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Fantastic. I love the details.
John
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Lee when you started this bow did you expect this masterpiece ?
My god what a beautiful bow!
Lane
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Man that is some kinda nice! Excellent job Lee I love it.
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I'm a little biased being that I like short bows. That being said, this is one of my favorite bows I have ever seen on this site. Beautiful!
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Spectacular finish work buddy. And I can say for certain this is your best bow yet...By Far. ;)
I think I now found something you got that I want for that yew trade >:D......yeah riiiiiiiiight. I know you wouldn't trade that for a million dollars. I can see your deeply in love with her.
Can you post a side unbraced profile shot. Im curious to see what kind of set you took with that much of an extreme bend.
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That is a pocket power house for sure! Really like the finish on that bow, makes it a object of desire. Great craftsmanship.
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my god what a bute. 28 for a 46inch is amazing
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Beautiful curves! Nice work.
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Nice job Lee! As said above, 28" is crazy good for a bow that short. I need not worry about my 57 incher I guess!
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Very Nice! The whole bow looks great.
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Oh I like that allot, Good job on another shortie. Skins look great
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Thank you all very much for the high praise...this bow was a lot of fun to make and pull together. This was bow #4 for me and I have plans for MANY more tucked away somewhere here in my head ::) The more I mess around with Shorties and sinew the more I really enjoy them both...now to get busy on a couple horn/sinew bows as soon as I can manage to get close enough to a Whitetail with this little Bow.
Thanks!
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That is a standout bow. Great job!
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I'm a little biased being that I like short bows. That being said, this is one of my favorite bows I have ever seen on this site. Beautiful!
Chuck, very high praise coming from a guy who makes KILLER sinew shorties! I have a L-O-N-G way to go before I catch up with you and making bows that look authentic like I'd like to make. Many thanks~
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Spectacular finish work buddy. And I can say for certain this is your best bow yet...By Far. ;)
I think I now found something you got that I want for that yew trade >:D......yeah riiiiiiiiight. I know you wouldn't trade that for a million dollars. I can see your deeply in love with her.
Can you post a side unbraced profile shot. Im curious to see what kind of set you took with that much of an extreme bend.
Thanks a ton Chris, I really appreciate the kudos...particularily cause you are a touch critic to get past >:D LOL I wish I could take you up on that trade offer but this little "Killer Hog(nose)" has me in her thralls for the time being and I think until I gather a little meat with her we will be thick as thieves. 8)
I'll work on getting an unbraced profile shot for ya sometime today...need to shoot some pics of the 1/2 dozen cane / stone point arrows I made up yesterday as well.
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Another super shorty... I think you did an amazing job! That little bow is the perfect weight for these old shoulders !! I'd love to hunt it :)
Great work!!!!
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Thats an AWSOME bow you sure got her dressed up nice-love the attention to detail and the full draw pic -Hammertime
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Beautiful bow,very nice in all aspects. :)
Pappy
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Great Googley Moogley!!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
I think I hate you sinew guys >:( , but I know it's really just jealousy.
I know it's early, but I think I found my BOM vote.
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LOL, Thanks Mike...come on in, the sinew is warm ;)
Got the quiver....YAHOOO....freaking awesome bro! Woot Woot!
I owe ya something that is for dang sure! You really should try a nice little shorty that is sinewed, it is such a marvelous material that really lets you produce some excellent stuff that plain ol' wood just cant handle. Talk soon~
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Got the quiver....YAHOOO....freaking awesome bro! Woot Woot!
NOT cool to brag like that Cherrio >:D Mike, where is my quiver :laugh:
Cipriano
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I love a shorty, especially when someone gets all the goodie out of it, and you did with this one. Really nice bow.
Also, did you get my PM?
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Thank you Eddie...yes, just got your PM, had 6 others in there that weren't showing :-[ Anyway, I'll follow up and get it sorted out. Thanks!
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Man Lee I see what you are saying what I could have if I add a little sinew. Really like your bow and all the the extras you added. If you dont mind Think I'll add the horsehair tassels to my top limb and sinew my next flat bow.. Keep it up, again super looking bow and looks fun to shoot. Thanks Chuck
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Hey Chuck, thanks for the kind words...those horse-hair tips and sinew additions certainly aren't my ideas so have at it bud and be sure to post up pics of your progress on the next one. You should have access to some good Yew up there right? Some nice wide Yew with sinew would make a killer combo for a NA Shorty!
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Great work, fantastic looking bow!