Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bowstick on July 10, 2007, 12:19:18 am

Title: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: bowstick on July 10, 2007, 12:19:18 am

Hi all!  My name is Justin Steinmetz.  I've been making bows for about 8 years now.  Lately been getting into some fantasy style bows, but still functional without loosing performance. 

This particular bow was a first for me.  For me, and I'm sure other bowyers out there, once you get an idea in your head, it's there to stay until you make it a reality.  So this horn bow was a work in production for a little over a year.  With most of the time sitting there with me pondering what to do next.  Finally, after trial and error, the bow became functional.  Yet, it was still lacking something. 

I brought it to the Kalamazoo Show last year (unfinished) and it sparked a lot of interest.   Other vendors pulled the bow back and commented how smooth the pull was.  Then I Brought it to the west Windsor Renaissance show in NJ and it again sparked a lot of interest.  A character by the name of Dark Lord came up to me and wanted it for his costume.. but it was still UN-finished.  It only took me one look at his costume and I knew what the bow needed... Some giant horns near the handle! He was a first time archer and needed a bow to complete his character and this was the perfect one.     So we agreed on a price and I took it back to the bowshop and made some modifications.  A few weeks later, it was complete.  I was very excited to see him with it in costume, so we arranged a photoshoot in his backyard. 

Click here to vote for this bow for BOTM
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,2983.0.html

  (http://www.bowstick.com/storefront/images/darklord_03.jpg)

(http://www.bowstick.com/darklord/images/3.jpg)

The bow is made entirely made from exotic horns; gemsbock, blesbok and springbok horns.  The main part of the limbs are made from split gemsbock.  The larger horns near the handle are that of a blesbok.  The horns that wrap around the top section of the bow are from a female springbok.  Everything was roughed up with sharp razor and cleaned with acetone before gluing.  All the horns are attached with the mixture of the bowgrip and thickener, then secured with sinew.  The shiny finish is heat cured bowgrip epoxy.

(http://www.bowstick.com/storefront/images/darklord_01.jpg)

The bow stands approx 60" tall and weighed in at 40# @ 28".  The weight of the horns in the handle reduce a lot of hand shock, and the natural spring of the horn provides a smooth draw and decent cast.  On my next one I plan on adding some re-curves at the tips to give the bow a little more character.  I also created a dozen arrows to match this bow.   

(http://www.bowstick.com/darklord/background.jpg) (http://www.bowstick.com/storefront/images/darklord_04.jpg)

More Photos:
(http://bowstick.com/storefront/images/darklordmain.jpg) (http://www.bowstick.com/darklord/images/2.jpg)

(http://www.bowstick.com/darklord/images/1.jpg)(http://www.bowstick.com/darklord/images/4.jpg)

I hope you guys enjoy my creation.  I am entering this bow for July BOTM. 

Sincerely,

Justin S.
Bowstick Archery

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: jpitts on July 10, 2007, 12:41:58 am

Wow....very imaginative. Only the second horn bow I've ever seen....I like the way you finished it too. That Dude looks like he just stepped of a "Moly Hatchet" album cover..... definitely goes with his persona....Good Job.

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Justin Snyder on July 10, 2007, 12:53:49 am

That is definitely a first from what I have seen.  I thought the weight would be higher with gemsbok. The tiller looks pretty good.  I don't guess you will be catching me wearing that costume.  ;D It looks a little warm, and kind of tough to hunt in.  Justin
Hey Jimmy, I had that cassette.  Dang talk about primitive..... cassettes.

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: waterlogged on July 10, 2007, 01:58:21 am

huh, for a version two, if you ever decide to do one, making the short horns work like in a pembscott (sp.) bow would be really cool, but for now that's one really evil looking bow. Nice job.

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Loki on July 10, 2007, 03:49:05 am

The Bow suits the archer down to the ground,impressive both of them!

But what the hell is that guy pretending to be?

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Hillbilly on July 10, 2007, 07:42:09 am

Like jpitts said, it gives me Molly Hatchet flashbacks. As soon as I brought up the pics, I started hearing the opening riff to "Flirtin' With Disaster" lol. That's a wicked, primal looking bow. If the string breaks, you could still beat your enemies to death with it..........

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: DanaM on July 10, 2007, 08:32:01 am

Fantastical looking bow and the fact that it is functional makes it even better.
That dude would fit into Lord of the Rings with no problems. Orc King ;D

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: jamie on July 10, 2007, 08:36:33 am

holy crap!!!!!!!! im gonna have nightmares.

Been flirtin’ with disaster,
Y’all know what I mean.
And the way we run our lives,
It makes no sense to me.
I don’t know about yourself or,
What you want to be - yeah.
When we gamble with our time,
We choose our destiny.

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Pappy on July 10, 2007, 08:48:25 am

Now that is wild. :) I am like Forest Gump,and that is about all I have to say bout that.  ;D
 Pappy

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Jbell on July 10, 2007, 09:07:02 am

Very nice job on such a wild design. Should make a great human hunting bow for any orc, goblin or demon out there. ;D Think I will go hide in closet now!

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Marc St Louis on July 10, 2007, 09:10:28 am

Interesting. Not my cup of tea but it is innovative. It looks like the limbs twist at brace in the first pic or is that just camera angle

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: gpw on July 10, 2007, 09:40:36 am

  I'd like to see explaining that to the Game Warden ....hahahahahaha   excess mass at tips may be contributing to Handshock ...

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Minuteman on July 10, 2007, 10:59:22 am

That fellers got WAAAAAAAY too much time on his hands. :D

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Dane on July 10, 2007, 11:12:50 am

Minuteman, beware, he is the Dark Lord! :)

I'm curious about what the reasons are behind the spiky horns? Is there any justification, maybe a made-up Orc (Old English for goblin, I think it is) bow tradition?

Although, he looks human, so he is clearly a renagade or some other minion of Sauran...or is it Saruman?

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Hillbilly on July 10, 2007, 11:29:22 am

I need that outfit and bow for hunting on the crowded National Forest game lands around here. I bet people would get the hell out of your way and give you plenty of personal space ;D

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: bowstick on July 10, 2007, 11:39:43 am

Thanks for the comments. 

To answer some of your questions...

1: Yes, the limbs are kind of twisted... as you can see from the first picture.  The horn is naturally  curved, so when i split it I had the choice of weather I wanted one limb to reflexed and the other to be deflexed, or one limb to curve right and one to the left.. which essentially lines the string up on center.  Granted the 1st choice probably would have shot faster, but I would have had to introduce reflex into just one limb to make them match... so it went with choice number 2.  Which worked out great.

2:  The small horns at the tips are hollow and small... on a normal longbow i would say yes it is probably adding to the hand shock... but I overbuilt the handle area to off set that.  This bow has less handshock than a hickory selfbow and shoots just as well if not better.

3:  The guy behind the mask is not as scary as his costume... At the show we were at, he came back an hour later without his costume on asking about his bow.... I had no idea it was him for the first few minutes of the conversation.  He got the armour from Ukraine and I am helping him try to get his character on the big screen.  Still quite a few years away from that though. 

4:  The gemsbok horn is hollow... and after I filled it my draw weight was 40#... during the year this sat there, I did make another one that I never finished and I gave it to my uncle.  I laminated the belly of the bow with hickory and dyed it black, this increased my draw weight to 57#.  Tillering a "twisted bow" is a little tricky, but it is not that hard to get the draw weight you want.


I like the idea of making a penobscot with the other horns, I will fancy the idea for the next year or so. 

Thanks again guys, if you have any other questions feel free to ask.

Justin

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: jamie on July 10, 2007, 02:33:10 pm

hillbilly if i saw you walking through the woods in that get up id shoot ya and eat ya. lol

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: GregB on July 10, 2007, 02:40:02 pm

The bow reminded me of Arnold Schwarzeneggers movie "Conan the Barbarian".  It would have fit right in... :)

Very interesting bow, and although I realise it was doctored up to fit the "Dark Lord" character...I'm sure I would have liked it even more prior to adding the extra horns. Great job though!  ;)

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Hillbilly on July 10, 2007, 06:18:12 pm

Durned ol' Connecticut cannibals........ :)

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: mullet on July 10, 2007, 09:49:14 pm

  That's a pretty cool loking bow.Like Hillbilly,I'd love to show up at the check station with dead game looking like that.As long as nobody knew it was me ::)

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Rich Saffold on July 10, 2007, 10:44:06 pm

You must be the horniest guy on the planet! :o sorry couldn't resist...Wild man 8), cool photos too..

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: jpitts on July 11, 2007, 12:31:00 am

Cassette's are primitive? Darn....and I thought I was moving up from the ol 8 track... ;D
Yeah all he needs is a double bladed bearded ax and he'd look like that "DESTROYER" character.
Hillbilly...I wouldn't eat ya..but you'd be one heck of a trophy....LOL's   anything looking like that would be too tough to gnaw on....even with Heinz57

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Little John on July 11, 2007, 01:11:41 am

Cool bow and cool pictures, I really like it a lot.    Kenneth

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Gordon on July 11, 2007, 03:03:44 am

It took a lot of imagination to create a bow like that (not to mention the outfit). I'm impressed that it actually shoots.

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: OldBow on July 13, 2007, 11:16:03 am

Good Grief! I'd thought I'd seen it all. This will be an interesting contender for July Self Bow of the Month.

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: a finnish native on July 13, 2007, 09:05:04 pm

Impressive work there man.

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: koan on July 13, 2007, 09:37:54 pm

I like it alot, that took some skill im sure...but would'nt this be considered a backed or composite bow?.....Brian

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: bowstick on July 13, 2007, 11:31:13 pm

Good question... i'm not sure what category this bow should be submitted under... The horns are not backed they are just filled... which does nothing to help hold the horn together, it is only to give a flat canvas on the belly so I could dye it black. 

So what does category does it qualify for?

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: OldBow on July 14, 2007, 12:31:28 pm

Someone thought this bow is horn backed hickory glued up with epoxy.  Lots of the backed bows are glued up with rather exotic glues so thats why I split out the backed bow category a year ago.  A self bow is a "stick bow", I believe.
 Justin, is the horn backed hickory correct or are the horns completely expoxy filled?
Help me out folks.

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: duffontap on July 14, 2007, 04:13:10 pm

I would say that if the limbs are made of more than one functioning material--it should be in the backed category. 

That is a killer bow!

          J. D.

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: bowstick on July 15, 2007, 10:58:20 pm

The limbs are entirely made from Horn and filled with epoxy.  The handle the only thing that is hickory, the handle is only 10" long... faded into the limbs of the bow.  The bow was fully functional before the limbs were filled with epoxy.  the last 12-14" on the tips of the bow are solid horn, as it was not hollow up there and there was nothing to fill. 

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Justin Snyder on July 15, 2007, 11:33:09 pm

Who the heck knows?  If we had a composite class, it would go there without a doubt.
If it was horn backed wood. I am still not sure.  We have clumped sinew backed bows with self bows because of they aren't backed with wood or boo.  Since the back of the bow is the same piece as the working core, I would lean toward self bow.  Call the filler, artistic.  I sure would have liked to see it without the filler.  Justin

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Pat B on July 16, 2007, 12:30:46 am

I'd call it a horn self bow.  ;D   Pat

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Marc St Louis on July 17, 2007, 08:20:59 am

If the bow was functional before filling the horn then I'm sure it would not have been for long. The stress level on the horn must have been extremely high. An open horn like that would want to flatten when being bent and that would cause it to split open. Air has very poor compression strength

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: bowstick on July 17, 2007, 05:07:37 pm

Mark,

I'll be honest with you, the bow was functional with no filler for almost 7 months.  As I stated before, this bow was a work in progress and i worked on it in stages.  We shot the bow over 200 times with no filler in it and no Ill effects on the bow. 

I'd say the bow would have held together without the filler just the same.

Justin

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Dane on July 17, 2007, 05:43:10 pm

Did you shoot it a lot, put many arrows through her?

Is this the same bow you had on your site, asking how much you should charge for it? I recall that, with a happy face over presumably your own face.

Dane

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: rapsod on July 17, 2007, 09:40:33 pm

Poor devil. How did you pull all this horn from his head? ;D
In that armour you look like s/m "client". ;D

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: bowstick on July 20, 2007, 03:37:18 am

Dane,

Yes, this is the same bow that I had posted on my own site about 7 or 8 months ago.  The picture of the person shooting it was my neighbor Joey (12 yrs old) with a happy face over his own.   Yes, we had put lots of arrows through it and it had been pullled back to full draw more times than it was shot as a lot of people handled this bow.

Justin

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: PepeLep on July 20, 2007, 04:22:09 pm

Aye chihuahua!

That's quite a bow you have there.
:D

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: Justin Snyder on July 21, 2007, 12:28:26 pm

Quote from: bowstick on July 10, 2007, 11:39:43 am

4:  The gemsbok horn is hollow... and after I filled it my draw weight was 40#... Justin

How much physical weight and draw weight did the epoxy add when you filled the horn?  Justin

Title: Re: Not your typical Horn bow - Pictures for July BOTM
Post by: bowstick on July 21, 2007, 12:58:59 pm

I used an additive in my epoxy called Cabosil, which is a light fluffy powder that increases volume and keeps the weight down.  The draw weight increased by almost 10#, the physical weight of the bow I'm not sure... i didnt weigh it.