Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Kviljo on July 13, 2007, 01:02:37 pm
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I started on a 77" long yew stave today. I'm making it for a friend who wanted a Nydam replica of 50-60 pounds.
It's going to have the metal spike and all, so I'm on the lookout for some measurements or photos of the original Nydam bows. I know they were quite narrow and not that heavy from some center-measurements that Clarke gave in 1963, and I've seen some drawings that were made in 1863-65. - but I don't trust that they give a honest representation of the bows. So my first question is: does anyone here know of any litterature that shows these bows, and perhaps also with some measurements?
Also, I think this yew looks and feels a little britle, and not fat. From the pictures - what do you think? I'm a bit sceptical, because I really don't want to break it, since it's not my stave ;)
(http://kviljo.no/bue/nydam/1.jpg)
(http://kviljo.no/bue/nydam/2.jpg)
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If this bow comes out half as nice as your recent osage holmegard, it will be a beautiful weapon.
I assume you looked at the earlier Viking bow thread - I posted a link to some data on the bows, but I suspect you have seen that. JD Tiller was planning to build a Norse bow, as well. I don't know how he is getting along with it, though.
One out of the group was elm, if memory serves me right, and these were all made from branches or saplings.
And cool on the spike - that will really add to the bow. Good luck on this!
Dane
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JD Tiller? Hmmmm. Hmmmmm. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
J. D. Duff :)
PS: That stave is beautiful. It doesn't appear particularly dense but it shure will handle 50-60 lbs. It would handle 100 lbs. at that length.
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Duff! Sorry, man. I have had a very long week. Go ahead and smite me.
Dane
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I doth smite thee! ;D To your credit there is a D Tiller. I'm still working on that bow. I used a fairly nasty piece of Yew and lost a little interest. I'll get back on that soon.
J. D. Duff
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Ouch! Thanks, JD Duff.
Think of it this way - a nasty bit of yew is better than no yew at all?
Someday...someday.
Dane
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Those you guys are talking about are Viking age bows. Nydam is Roman age ;)
Here's the Torsbjerg bow on the left, and one of the Nydam bows as they were drawn in 1863-65:
(http://kviljo.no/bue/nydam/torny.jpg)
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I was wondering about that. It that image from "Longbow?" I was just looking at it the other day.
J. D.
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Those drawings have been published in a lot of papers. I scanned that one from Junkmanns book. Originally they were printed in two large books on the finds, in 1863 and 1865.
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You know, I totally spaced out. Of course, the ship burial find! You can smite me again for a mushy brain.
If you find hard data, measurements, etc. I'd love it if you would share here. And how do you expect to make the spike? Thin sheet iron?
Dane
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Hehe :)
I'm a bit handicapped because I'm on vacation, so the library is unavailable for me, but if I come across anything I'll post it here. As far as I have understood, they tapered in almost straight lines from the center to the tips, and I have some center measurements so it should be sufficient. But again, it would be good to have some more to go on.
Guess I'll have to forge the spike, and make it as close to the original(s) as I can.
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Ho Kviljo. I have full find catalogue including photos. But I m leaving to england tomorow. If you wait Ill mail you some pictures once I return.
Even if narrow, they dont look to be tapered straight, there ix still bit of leaf shape in width tapper.
Also there are huge diferences in working qualities of individual bows, there are some well made and some very badly made too.
Jaro
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I have a bit of yew like that - in places there is a gradual transition from heartwood to sapwood and I'm not quite sure where to make the back of the bow. The last bow I attempted from that log broke during tillering (but that was completely my fault I think).
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That would be great Jaro! - I'll wait!
Bet I'll just decide a growthring that will compromise between sap and heartwood. Not much else to do, I bet.
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Well, it took some time, but the bow slowly came into beeing. The plan was altered a little, so it became heavier, the spike was dropped and an extra set of stringer-nocks was added. It's 77" long and 67# @ 28". The stave had 1" reflex, and has 0 after just beeing unstrung. I'm really impressed but the force/draw-curve, it must be the fattest I've ever tried on a longbow! It's nearly as thick as it is wide, and I had some problem stabilizing it, as it also had uneven growth on each side in the cross-section. I tillered it by drawing straight lines on the side, and adjusting the bend according to those, to avoid getting confused by a few kinks here and there. That's the reason it looks a bit uneven tillered, but I'd rather tiller a bow to stress the wood evenly than giving it an even bend at full draw. :)
(http://www.kviljo.no/bue/nydam/12.jpg)
(http://www.kviljo.no/bue/nydam/15.jpg)
(http://www.kviljo.no/bue/nydam/16.jpg)
(http://www.kviljo.no/bue/nydam/14.jpg)
(http://www.kviljo.no/bue/nydam/13.jpg)
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Kviljo, is that where you live? Looks great!
Bow seems pretty stiff in the center...shoot good? Shame about the spike...that would've been cool to see.
Scott
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It's at the local museum where I held a bowmakers course this weekend. It's got a reflex-kink at the center, so it looks a little stiff at the center, although the wood bends less at the center than at the tips, like all longbows should.
Hoping to make a spiked one some day when I get the time :)
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Among the finds of Nydam were lots of bos, about 200 I think, weapons, 3 ships, 1 has survived. There were well shaped bows, as well as very poor worked bows. Arrows from Top 10 down to as poor as can be. Grains running out in the middle and very amateurish repaired shafts. In have somewhere pics made of it, wanna put them in when I find them.
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Ivar, I recall this bow, and am not disappointed at all. Beautiful as always. I do recall not being able to find much info on the bows, and the keepers of that ship museum never returned my emails. Any info on dimensions for this bow?
Uwe, if I recall, there were all sacrificial goods? If so, does that explain some less than steller equipment?
Dane
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I got hold of the catalogue that Jaro mentioned, and there are remains of 23 complete bows and 6 nearly complete. There might be more bows, but those must be only fragments.
I'd love to see pictures Uwe! That would be awesome 8)
I didn't measure the bow at the center, but most of the Nydams are 2,75 cm wide and 2,6 cm thick at the center according to Clark (1963). This one is a bit larger.
The stuff is probably what was left of the losing side in a battle, although I haven't studied the find closely :)
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It has been a sacricied gift to the gods. You find parts of roman armour as well as clothings. If you make an idea of endlish longbows, you`ll have dimensions.
This eve. I`ll search for the pics.
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very nice, looks good from here!
Phil
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I have been searching, searching.... What I`ve found were 2 books of the Nydam Moor, but the best pics I send to german "Traditionell Bogenschiessen" magazine with a report about the items found there. So I`ve scanned some pages of the book. You can make an idea of what there was discovered. May be your able to learn a little german by the way.
I have made a little mistake: there were only found 40 bows, which were made from yew, 378 lances and 344 spears. If you would like to have some more info about how the arrows were made for example, please let me know.
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Nice! I have to get hold of that magazine! Which issue and year is it from?
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I`ll give you info when it comes. I hope they`ll bring it in AUtumn or Winter issue. I made it already 5 years ago, but some differences in the text and no returning info to me stretched the time.
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Nydam yew longbow buildalong
« on: July 13, 2007, 10:13:25 AM »
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I started on a 77" long yew stave today. I'm making it for a friend who wanted a Nydam replica of 50-60 pounds.
It's going to have the metal spike and all, so I'm on the lookout for some measurements or photos of the original Nydam bows. I know they were quite narrow and not that heavy from some center-measuremen So my first question is: does anyone here know of any litterature that shows these bows, and perhaps also with some measurements?
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If you have a problem with the iron spike , you coulld make a copy of the antler spike which is very similar. When I visited Denmark, a curator at the National Museum kindly gave me photocopies of several pages of descriptions of the bows with measurements. I made one up. The tips are very slender and it is obvious why the nock was only on one side. You may not have left the tips long enough. If you are still interested I can email you some of the information. It is in German which I speak.
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The guy who has the bow now didn't want the spike anyway, and that's the reason :) But I've set of a few yew staves for Nydam bows, so I'm hoping to make both the antler and steel version. I'd love to have some better documentation than the original from 1865! German ist kein problem ;)
Uwe, great having the author here :) Looking very much forward to reading the article!
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The spikes in antler or even the iron spikes were for hand- to- hand- fight. There is even a nail on the upper limb working as a stringkeeper.
@ bow- toxo. would you like to mail the info? uwe.karstens@web.de
Thanks already!
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Kviljo, now you you owe me a Nydam bow replica!
My wife and I took a Sundaytrip to Schleswig for a museumsvist.
The bows are about 1,80m long and have a width of about 28- 30mm at the widest part (grip section) as we could see through the glass. Some are round shaped, one looks as like as a Holmegaard.
The arrows are thinned out at the end and had feathers of about 120mm length, which wcame from seaeagles. I even made some pics of the ship. May be of interest for shipfriends among PA- folks.
If you have any questions, please ask. I`ll try to answer.
Enjoy the photos.
Regards Uwe
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And the rest.
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The last pics.
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Uwe, thank you so much for all the photos. You did mention you took some shots of the ship itself? Is it possible to share those? Ships and boats are a big facination with me.
Thank you,
Dane
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Wow! - thanks! :D Pictures like these makes it so much easier to grasp how they were shaped and decorated.
I definitely have to visit the museum some day! Totally cool 8)
Feathers from seaeagles? I didn't know feathers were preserved. That's pretty amazing! Recently there has been found a couple of arrows here in Norway with preserved feathers too, but these were found by melting snowdrifts. They haven't been analyzed yet though.
Thanks again Uwe!
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Fanstatic Pictures Uwe!!! :o
Thank you for posting them! ;D
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Oh, by the way, were the decoration on the belly or the back, or both? How deep would you say they were carved?
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Thanks for the positive reaction. If someone of you would like to visit this museum, please let me know! If there won`t come more than max. 2 people I would like to invite you for a night or two to come for a visit.
Here are the shippics.
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Excellent the photos he i would like to be able to see but photos and to learn but on this theme
Many Thanks
Gabriel
www.arcosnewen.com.ar
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The wooden quiver is interesting....is it typical? Are are there any dimensions? ;D
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Uwe, thank you for putting the ship photos up. What a beauty she is! Lapstrake construction, similar to a Norse ship? Did they find a great deal of seafaring gear in the ship? Rope, clothings, things of that nature?
Dane
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@ jachcrafty: No dimensions. Even not the remains of the original was to be seen This quiver was made as I think by Harm Paulsen, an experimental archaeologist. But if did this quiver, I think it must give an original.
@ Dane: I think there are only the rudders. But your question about clothing: in this Nydam Hall there are also the findings of Thorsberg another moor, where weapons and soon were sacrificed. A trouser, called "Thorsberg Hose", is displayed. Somewhere I have an cut of the original for repro. But the Repro is dificult, because you won`t find the correct cloth easily. Its called "Diamant Köper". I haven`t seen it. Maybe "Google" helps.
Yes Dane , your right its the construction of the shipbuilding in viking times.
Regards Uwe
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I am familiar with the Thorsberg trousers, Uwe. They have feet built in, so no need for socks. I'm guessing they were cut on the bias, and fit closely.
I wonder if anyone has build a replica of the ship? It looks very seaworthy and fast. She sailed with sail, or just ores?
Dane
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In Germanys past, better the 3. Reich there had been made a replica of this ship. It had been built near Bremen, and has been an "accessoir" in a few films of that time, when the old German tribes played the star role in some german (austrian) heads. I think a part or the complete title of one film was "Deutscher Wald", or similar.
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Wonderful reproduction. And thank you very much for all those pics of the originals. I have a great fascination with those bows.
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I will assume that replica is long gone, then. A shame, too, as this ship would look amazing under sail or ore.
Dane
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Yes, but this kind of ship had been only skulled. There were no remains of sailingitems found.
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If you post any more pictures about your bow, let me know. I have your fine bow bookmarked under August Self Bows of the Month