Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: zenmonkeyman on December 03, 2011, 01:51:09 am
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Just wondering if anybody has a technique for shooting while prone? This year I had a 100% busted rate hunting off the ground, and yet that delicious looking gang of elk were often in open field. I started to wonder if I could lie in the grass and shoot off my back thus removing that large movement of coming to my knees to shoot.
That photo we've all seen of Ishi shooting at a deer makes me see possibilities, because he's shooting off the wrong side of his bow (sorry Josh :P) with some kind of a pinch draw that I can't quite figure out. But if I could figure it out, or go with some kind of a thumb ring release, the hunting opportunities would really open up. Thoughts?
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I'm pretty sure this is in the wrong section but...you can shoot off your back. It's not that hard. Just shoot bare fingers and squeeze the arrow between you index and middle finger with a standard meditranian release holding the arrow against the bows shelf. I'm not sure trick shooting on big game is the best most ethical thing to do but if you were so inclined it would work with practice.
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shooting from your belly would be easier i think
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Just an idea to throw at ya, I don't know your situation or terrain but I've killed some white tails by hunting from holes I dig along travel routes and place small amounts of brush around them. Sometimes I get busted but it's been working better than my brush blinds. when I sit in them my head and shoulders are the only thing above ground level. It is a lot of work but I use them over and over now that their established. This would be great in high grass! The indians also used this technique and a lot of other hunters as well.
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If you practice enough it wouldnt really be "trick" shooting so therefore it would be ethical if he could shoot accurately in any position.
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Thanks guys, lots of food for thought there. Will, I'm definitely going to have to look up this Mediterranean realease. Davz, it IS possible to shoot conventionally off the stomach but it's extremely awkward. Definitely in the realm of trick shooting. Tried it the other night and out of 4 arrows at 15 yds, 2 were "kills" and two were misses or gut shots. Lots of thrashing to draw since the right arm does double duty keeping your body off the ground and drawing the string. On one shot, my draping clothes severely caught the string on release. Donald, that's a fantastic idea but I don't know how I'd pick one spot in a large field to do it. Plus the farmers might not be thrilled, lol. I'm a firm believer that an ability to be dynamic and reactive and able to move at a moment's notice is a huge advantage in a game that's skewed in the quarry's favour on most days. Thanks Cherokee!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzDbH9TK_mY
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Cool video. Yes, you can shoot on your back or your belly. If shooting on your back, you just have to grab the bowstring with your fingers curled a little more around the bowstring then normal. When you draw, you'll also need to pinch your fingers against the arrow nock. When you draw back, your fingers will naturally straighten out and twist the bowstring and nock towards the riser. Your finger pinch on the nock will hold the arrow tight to the riser even though it's unsupported on the front end. I've practiced both ways and even hunted like that a few times in certain field or meadow crossings where there isn't any cover. Never had a shot at live deer like that though. It's definitely more of a 10-15 yard thing. 20 is stretching it.
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I can save you from getting cold laying on the ground. I've shot 36 bucks with a self bow since 06 all from the ground as well as 15 gobblers 2 last spring one with and OSIDEN HEAD. And I been busted so many times I can remember them all in my 42 years of hunting. There's 3 things you got to do.
#1 LEARN TO HUNT THE WIND PERIOD NO IF'S ANDS OR SENT- LOC thats better.
No matter what kind of sent-loc or how much spray you use. YOU CAN FOOL AND MATURE BUCK OR ANY DEERS NOISE for that matter.
#2 If your hunting off the ground get a GHILLIE.
#3 And until I started doing this I like you got busted dozzens of times. You HAVE TO SET YOUR SITES UP WHERE THE BUCK OR TURKEY GO'S PAST YOU. All animals focus ahead of themselves where their going. They know it's safe where the just came from. This is how indains lived by the bow for 1000's of years. Not by thying to draw whille the animals broadside to them. They pick you off everytime unless they turn their head away from you.
So it you let them go past your ground site far enough that the don't see you in their prefuale vision. You can't draw. A decoy or anything that will draw their an tation your twice as better. I set up like this and lots of times depending on the angle of the ground site and the trail I'm shooting. I do this I take some doe urine buck urine any sent. Put it in one of those tinks orange canester.
Don't ever go on the up wind side of your trail or cross it for any reason. I've throw it across on the up wind side of the trail. Just to draw the bucks attention that way. He'll differently turn his head that way when the smells it. I like using this trick when ever I can't set up where the buck where ever the buck can't quarter past me.
Thats the only way you can draw when he's perfectly broad side to you unless he turns his head walk behind a tree or bush. Then you have to draw while his heads hidden. Lucky if he stoped there. You don't have a compound where you can draw while his heads hidden and be drawed when He comes out the other side.
Hunting from the ground is differently 10 times harder I long for the freedom of movement and how well it keeps your scent above the deer when your up in the limbs. Exsecialy calling.I know I stand hunted for over almost 30 years but now I wouldn't have it any other way. There's no cheating from the ground like it is up in the limbs. But alot less work everyyear puting up and down a dozzen loc-ons. That I don't miss and if you fall off your stool the grounds not so hard.
Learn to do these 3 things and you won't have to lay on that cold ground for hours. I promass you lots more shots.
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Thanks for the input Alpinbogen, it can get lonely in my head sometimes, lol. Crooketarrow, that all sounds like fantastic advice. Gonna start pricing some ghillie suits!
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You don't have to buy a guillie suit. If you can get a hold of burlap, cut in strips of various widths and lengths, dye it in several natural colors, then sew the strips in a random pattern over an old set of bdu's or whatever camo clothes you want.. the trick is to fold the strips in half and sew them at the fold. Then you tie the strips in a simple knot and fray the burlap into strings. It's little time consuming, but well worth it. Josh
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Thanks for the input Alpinbogen, it can get lonely in my head sometimes, lol. Crooketarrow, that all sounds like fantastic advice. Gonna start pricing some ghillie suits!
There are some great prices on them at 3Rivers? Or cabellas. I found a few places on line where you can get actual suits like kits. they aren't fundamentaly hard to make unless you want to go with something that has the actual leaf shapes. The first ones were just burlap fibers and patches in different colors on a loose net type garment.
I want to say I saw I saw a cool pancho one that I almost bougth but I figured it would get in the way of shooting, unless I clipped back the arm part. I didn't know what would be more scary. The sudden sight of a hunter or the sudden sight of a disembodied arm holding a bow.
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Sounds like all very good advice. I guess that's why I still mainly hunt from the trees. :) :) By the way Crooketarrow what state do you hunt in ? I thought TN. had liberal limits on deer.36 in 4 years and you had stated in another thread that you hadn't killed any this year and only kill mature bucks,that's 9 mature bucks a year for 4 years with home made stuff and from the ground. Very impressive !!!! Zen I would listen to him or better yet visit and see if you can find out how he does it,like I said very impressive. :) I have tried it and it is very very tough to get a shot at a whitetail from the ground. :) I am always truly impressed with anyone that can,especially on a regular basis. :) :)
Pappy
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Thats 36 bucks with selfbows sence
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Thats 36 bucks with a selfbow since I started building and hunting with my own bows 21 years ago. I've killed 98 bucks in all with everything in the last 41 years. Includeing a doe with a ATALI 2 MISS'S WITH SPEARS I gave that up. Also 31 gobblers with a shot gun 15 more with selfbows. I grew up with a turkey nut my GRANDAD that kill over 300 gobblers in 90 springs. He died at 97.
I quit shooting anything that wasn't 3 1/2 in the last 11 years. I killed 11 mature bucks 4 MOUNTS THE REST SKULLS with my self bows I ALSO HAVE 5 rifle 2 ML ,1 OF THESE IS FLINT LOCK,1 PISTOL MOUNT.
I haven't killed a buck since 09 a 133 10 point That I rattled in shot 13 yards with a Hickory bow dog wood arrow and home made trade point.. I did shoot a 8 1/2 year old doe last year my oldest deer and one this year with growth on here head. All of my mounts are 118 to 138 nice for my area. I never said that all 36 selfbow bucks were mature but 11 are 3 1/2 or older with my oldest 6 1/2 . But I can say this there no spikes or forkies in there. I'd quit shooting those a long time back. Even back when I rifle hunted.
I havn't hunted with anything but selfbows off the ground since 06. When I had 2 strokes this made me a total ground hunter. I couldn't hunt 06 to the spring of 08 missed 2 gobblers both under 15 yards. . COULDN'T FEEL MY ankor My right side of my face was numb so I cut my arrows down to the heads touched that first year. Killed a 4 1/2 year old point a 3 yards. Always said GOD must have sent him to me. Because then it was 10 yards or under. 4 OF THOSE BUCKS AND 3 GOBBLERS WERE KILLED WITH KNAPPED HEADS. WAY OVER HALF OF MY 36 BUCKS 15 GOBBLERS WERE SHOT WITH SHOOT ARROWS AND HOME MADE TRADE POINTS.
I'm have 2 farms I manage and 2 other places that I share with other hunters.LUCKELY THEY ONLY SHOOT MATURE BUCKS ALSO. This year so far in 56 times HUNTING I've saw 34 bucks passed 7 shots on smaller bucks 13 were shooters at least passed on a dozzen shots on doe's. Missed a 8 pointer I call shortie a 5 1/2 with short tines in the low 120's had 4 other shooters with in 15 yards that didn't pan out.
I hit a yote after missing 2 others one morning.
PAPPY these bucks came from (MOSTLY BERKELY CO. WV ) WV some VA and MD did kill one in KANSAS and one in OK both recurves. If you'd like pic's. sent me your email address.
I assure you anything I say is through 1000's of times setting in the cold. Never spot lighted a deer in my life and all 98 bucks were legal I have tags for each. All but one I shot a 11 point 2 days after season when I was 15 teen then I shot compounnds ( onidia eagle ). I have 12 mounts 27 skulls and 3 storage bens full of antlers to prove what I say ask anyone who knows me. ABOUT ME. I did'nt join this sight to POST hunting just build bows. This why I don't post much about hunting.
I do totally buck hunt from OCT TO JAN everyday I can. My bow biulding JAN to spring gobbler then between fly fishing in the summer and in a couple other hobbies and family. All my times taken. I come to enjoy the getting ready as muck as the hunting.
KNOWLEGE WITH OUT EXSPERANCE IS JUST IMFORMATION
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No proof needed for me, Like I said thats just awesome. :)
Pappy
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Oh I see...I thought I read that you killed 36 since 06. 36 in 21 years makes ALOT more sence.
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I only wish WILL I've only killed a 6 and 10 point since I started back 08. Shooting at mature bucks with just a self bow you learn to eat your tag once in a while. Not to hard to see them getting inside 20 yards is something else.
Pappy I just love hunting with a self bow and do every min. I can. I one of those people blessed or cursed depending on how you look at it. With engery to burn.
My grandad live by this and never even knew it.
NEVER SLOW DOWN YOU NEVER GROW OLD.
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I do also and that is all I hunt with, I hunt hard and may not be the best hunter but when I seen 36 mature bucks in 4 years ,well to say the least I was impressed or in doubt, one or the other,I hope you can understand that ,and have no hard feelings about me questioning it. :)
Pappy
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No hard feeling and I under stand. I have friends that bring people everyyear that don't beleive what my friends tell them. Untill the come and see my mounts and skulls. Even then I've even in acused of buying or spotlighting them. All my bucks but one was killed legal. Youth acounted for the one. Killed 2 days after season with a bow.
I also hunted long enough that when someone bost about killing mature bucks on a regure basic's with a bow, self bow at that. ( I don't live in the mid west) It always raises and eye brow (both). I have farms that I hunt low pressure just me. Only hunt the wind period, only go to my stand never walk around (in and out ), only scout and run cams in the winter, ride when I can a big plus in land land.. Basicly I leave my farms along except when hunting. Except glassing in the summer from a far.Things you must do to have mature bucks move in the daylight with out the rut kicking.
I catch a lot more slack about my the gobblers I have 15 self bow gobblers (no jakes) and 31 shot gun. I stoped gun hunting them in 04. My grandad turn over in his grave if I'd shoot one with a rifle. I was raised to call your birds up close. And he did 20 ga model 12 only gun I ever seen him use. And he killed over 300 gobblers with it. I counted his beards 309 he said he shot up and couple he did'nt save.
SO KNOW HARD FEELING FROM THIS END.
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I hunt in AZ. Open terrain, cat-claw like brush grabbing at your legs, loose rock, and brittle brush. At the same time hunting quarry (Coues WT, Muleys) so skittish from predation that its TOUGH just to get into 80yds let alone selfbow range. But its possible. I have 4 buck's under my belt 3 with a compound and 1 with a recurve. I'm still trying with my selfbow (57# Mtn.Ash Flattie).
My best method for staying close to the ground is sittin on one leg while crounched down and extending oppposite leg out. I've even used this method out in the open flats before to kinda scoot along ever so slightly for a shot.
Shots out here in SW are usually 30yds or more. I practice from 30-45yds out but plan to shoot 30yds and under. But sometimes when oppurtunity arises I'll take a shot at 35yds if everythings in order, unobscurred and broadside target.
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I'm really enjoying this back and forth, great stories CA! I thought I'd try something last night (at the school gym where our club shoots 2 nights a week) off my back, I held the bow with my palm up, shot off the wrong side and drew 3 fingers but with my palm out instead of in. I forgot that my bow was built such that a natural wiggle cheated the string alignment towards center shot, and far from center shot if shot off the other side of the bow. Well lets just say I was shortly very happy that the steel basketball backboards are as sturdy as they are! I was also very happy about the limited turnout (few witnesses) last night. Not so happy about the arrow, but hey! Now I get to make another one.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
Pappy
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RABID I hunted white tails in 6 states and sika 5 times in JAN down on the EASTERN SHORE after our season closes. I'd kill to hunt COUSE bucks. Although I know were in way different terrain and don't know if this is possable. I set up all my (ground) sites in the winter after our season. And hunt off milk creates. Must have 100's scatter about.
All my shots are close 15 or under depending where I set up.Longest 18 shortest 3 yards. But I sure if you scout you out a few spots where you can set up. Where you can let the buck pass you so he's quartering away. I been busted so many times trying to draw on broad side bucks. Most people would quit.
But I made friend by chance many years ago. I was dragging a buck 1 1/2 ,2 miles from my truck. When I met this old guy on the logging road. He saw my self bow I saw his. We set and talk and by the time we got my buck back to my truck we were friends. He was half IROQOUIS Indian and had been building selfbows for over 50 years. (CROOKETARROW) He couldn't read and could only write a few words. And thats the way he spelled it. Only my first year building bows that was 20 years ago.
He died almost 5 years later 71. He built bows from a kid up but said he was in his teens when he really serious about build bows and hunting with them.. So it you want you could ad a few years to that 50 years if you wanted.
He said this was passed down to him and his people once lived by the.bow really want to draw and not be seen you have to let the deer pass you. I do the same with gobblers WORKS ever time. It's differently all in the set up.
Or do you stalk there, wast of time here. There is one time and thats when the winds howling I put on my ghillie and work standing corn. Peaking each row slowly I arrowed 5 bucks 2 in there beds. If you cut across use the the rows with the wind at your face looking down each row as you go.
If nothing turn a round go back through the same as you just came. Move down 75,100 yards and go again. Bucks bed at all rock breaks, trees anywhere the farmer can't plow up.
I'd think you do a lot of glassing and stalking way to much pressure to do that here.
ZEN never shot off my back but set it done at 2 shoot exposes.
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Great story Crooket. I like that sorta stuff with tradition. I try to replicate my bows/arrows to represent my heritage "Apache"style. I make reed composite arrows and a few others. I collect my materials locally, but with one exception a hickory bow. I got the stave from a friend thru the old indian barter system.
But anyway if ya ever get to hunt coues WT. I tell ya its a challenge to hunt the SW deer let alone cover its rugged terrain. I hunted'em all my life, many kills with a rifle but 0 with a selfbow. Typically out west its spot-stalk. Sit for hours and glass til a buck is spotted. Then develop a game plan and proceed to get BUSTED! ;D One trick I learned from the old timers that hunted with a bow is that they would strip down to nothing but a loin cloth and moccasins. In this way they moved quicker, dead-silent even moving thru brush. It'll tear your legs to shreds and cold but my ancestors were a tough breed. Some of the books I've read about them is amazing!!
The deer behavior out here is unpredicatable since forage is so scarce deer are always moving. One day you'll find'em here next day over the next Mtn. Early season you can sit a waterhole but I have no patience. I'd rather find a snoozen buck in the midday shade and stick him. Once the rut hits its ON. Bucks bird dogging a doe's scent trail is an easy target. I try to move ahead and intersect.
All my bows kills were under 28yds. But I still practice out to 40+yds even 50 sometimes. Long distance practice makes a 20yarder a "chip shot".
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SOUNDS COOL
I decoy a lot and have had really good luck at it. Have you ever decoyed. Seams the thing to do. Make those bucks come to you. Decoying tailor make for open land. Add a tail and fishing line learn to call. Got to work. Could be the ticket your looking for.
I also collect local materals. I've got a couple hickory staves refexed added. And cut alot of dogwood shafts after the first. What you have to trade.
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Decoying could work and sounds possible. But honestly....it sounds easier said then done. Coues deer hunting is about covering difficult terrian, glassing and wind direction. Coues WT never seem to be in same area. I wouldn't wanna carry more then I have to. I need to not only hike miles thru hills, deep ravines and rocky canyons. But if I'm "lucky" I get to hike back with 80-100lbs of deer meat boned out. No dragging deer or ATV's out here. I'd like to see someone drag a deer thru some of the stuff I hunt here ;D. There just ain't NO WAY other than on ones back. Picture this...hunting in sheep country but instead of sheep your hunting deer. There ain't no nice flat farm or bottom land here with easily accessible trails or roads nearby. Its a whole different ballgame out here. I heard it called "A poor mans sheep hunt".