Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: tradrick on July 25, 2007, 10:31:59 pm
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I've got a problem with my arrows being consistant.I bought a dz.40/45 POC shafts from 3rivers and stained them and fletched them.I've only made up 6 of the dz.All are fletched the same with 3 4'' feathers,classic nocks and 125 gr point.3 out of the 6 will fly great and right to the mark when I do my part.The other 3 I get erratic flight out of or hitting way left or right.In other words nothing consitant.When I eye ball down the shaft they appear to be straight.Do you think they could be the wrong spine?Is shooting woodies this much headache?Or is this another trade I need to learn?I'm used to shooting aluminum arrows from laminated longbows and recurves so this is still fairly new to me.Thanks for any advice.tradrick
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Try shooting the wierd ones with the cock feather turned in toward the bow. Also, make sure your points are on perfectly straight. Try spinning the arrows with the point on a piece of wood and if they wobble, heat the head up and realign it until it spins true. I usually like 5 1/2 inch feathers, too-with some helical, they'll smooth out some flight problems.
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I agree with Steve. Flip them over first. That will usually solve the problem. For self bows especially I like 5 1/2" high back fletching but I use an offset straight fletch. Did you make the arrows up with the grain lines against the bow(horizontal)? That is the way you want them. Pat
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Sometime the problem with bought wood shafts is the spine isn't the same,I have a spine tester and grain scale so I can group them.If it is flying bad out of the bow you can add a heaver point if it is to stiff to weaken it some or if you have any length left you can cut them off a little to
make them stiffer.An inch will add about 5 lbs. of spine weight.I usually use 4 -4 1/2 feather
with a slight cant up the shaft.Like Pat said be sure to line the nocks up the same on the grain
you can see it looking at the end of most shafts.They are some trouble sometimes to get right but once you do several and figure out a little about how to tune them they are as good as any shaft you want to shoot. :)
Pappy
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i am in love with my wooden arrows and would not trade them. you do get some that are a pain, but it should be fixable by doing what others have said, or by cutting them down in incriments until they fly well. i am not sure, but i remember hearing they are spined for a 28 inch arrow. that mean that if you have a 40# spines arrow that you leave 30 inches lone it will shoot like a 50# spined arrow. using plastic nocks i never had to worry about the grain of the arrow relative to the bow. I never saw a difference. head allignment and nock allingnemt are paramount however. if your nock is not glued straight you are wasting your time looking for good flight. same could be said for points. The biggest thing with woodies is you need to enjoy them for what they are. while they can be perfect and just as good as any carbon, many have small flaws that take time to master and understand, but that is what is so great about them. we don't build our own bows and arrows for ease of use, or fast mastering. i beleive we do it all for many reasons, but none of them include trying to match the factory standards of prefabbed machined arrows and bows. If we wanted the best precision you can spend $10 at walmart, or 2 hours of your time on each arrow like many of us do. "Good arrow damn heap of work, ugghh"-Maurice Thompson's savage friend-. Enjoy the woodies for what they are, and love the imperfections in them, or they won't become part of your quiver. besides, when an alluminum breaks all you think is, "damn, there goes ten bucks". when a woody breaks you are either truely sad because of the work you put into it, or just happy to smell the fresh cedar. woodies envoke emotion where manufactured arrows simply so not. that is why i really love them. eor
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How did you do your tapers for the points and nocks? If your tapers are off it will be tough to glue the points and nocks on straight.
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Thanks for the advice guys.I new I could count on ya'll.I use a tapering tool purchased from 3rivers a few years ago.It has 2 separte ends one for the point one for the nock.Armymedic I like the way you think.And thats the reason I'm here,were I have more involvement with my gear.I'm learning more every week and build more of my own stuff and buy less all the time.I guess you could say I got tired of being one of these gadget junkies,going out and buying the next great thing.There was no passion or skill in it.The things that are being taught on forums like this are a lost art as far as I'm concerned.And thats a damn shame.Most of the guys I work with that bowhunt don't have a clue on how to make a bows,strings, arrows,quiver or even how to shoot without fiber optic sights.I let a compound friend of mine shoot my longbow one day.When I handed it to him he said''OK Whata I Do''.Sorry I'll get off my soap box now.Thanks for your help I'll check'em out good this evening.tradrick
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Make sure you have the grain orientation the same on all of them, something many people overlook
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It is just the opposite,If you have an arrow spined 40 and leave it 30in. long it will shoot like a 30 lb.
You gain about 5 lb. spine with every in. cut off 28 and loose about 5 lb.spine for every in. you add.
Pappy
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right you are. sorry for the misinfo, i knew it went one way but was not positive. thanks pappy
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Problem is the three river arrows. I dont think they check each arrow for spine when they arrive at the plant but just batch check them like one in twelve or so. I have a person I buy POC from that is very reputable and been in the archery buisness for over 4 generations. PM me and I will give you their adress on the net. Good folk too!
David T
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Problem is the three river arrows. I dont think they check each arrow for spine when they arrive at the plant but just batch check them like one in twelve or so. I have a person I buy POC from that is very reputable and been in the archery buisness for over 4 generations. PM me and I will give you their adress on the net. Good folk too!
David T
Well now, tell us how you really feel. I have gotten shafts from them and not had a problem. It was probably one of your reputable people that matched them and sold them to 3 Rivers. You can have problems no matter where you get them.
Tradrick, you have gotten some excellent advice to try to fix the problem. You can test the spine by putting them in a clamp and hanging something heavy from the end. Do the good shooters first and mark how far they bend. Then try the others and see if they bend the same distance. The difference will be small, so make sure you mark it precise. Justin
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Thanks for all the great tips.I'm sure I can get them flying better with all of the advice.Like the lineing your nock up with your arrows grain.I had never heard that before.Its the little things along the way that you learn that will make a world of difference.Thanks tradrick
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Arrow nocks at right angles to grain. Arrows not milled parallel to then back of the tree often have little "points" going in one direction on 1 side of the arrow and the other direction on the other side of the arrow. For safety these should point toward your hand when the arrow is in shooting position so if the arrow breaks on release it will break up and away from your hand. tradrick, to get at the root of your problem knowing the poundage of your bow and the drawlength would help us. Also, what is the brace height of your bow? If it is too low arrows will "spray" all over and on release the arrows will hit the side of the bow. Same if the spine is too high. Jawge
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Thanks Jawge,the bow is 53#@28''and I draw right around 271/2''.The bow shoots best when braced at 61/2''.I whent to a shoot over the weekend and spoke with a vendor that is well known for his arrow smith skills.Had him look at my arrows and sure enough all of them except one had the nock turned the wrong way plus they were still to long.He showed me how to follow the grain run out and place the nock accordingly.Once we fixed that problem and cut them down to 281/2''to back of point they flew like darts.The shafts are spined 40/45 and have 3 4''feathers.I have some 5''banna cut feathers I'm going to try to stabilize a broadhead tipped arrow.I shot my selfbow in the shoot after I got the right arrow combination and scored as good with it as I did my laminated longbow.Learning this stuff is a addiction I don't think they make a rehab for lol.tradrick
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I'm glad to hear you got them figured out. Now that you have the picture thing down, how about posting some pictures. A lot of guys don't fully understand the grain. You could post some pictures of the grain orientation with the nocks and help us all out. Justin
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Well Justin,I'll give it a shot.Just keep in mind that I'm still a rookie.So if any of you real arrow smiths out there see any need to correct me on anything please do so.Because I'm still learning.As it was explained to me the grain run out on shafts generally makes a ''V'' shape on the shaft were it runs out.You don't want this V run out up against your side plate or away from your side plate or bow.You want it either faceing down towards rest or faceing up away from the rest.When you glue up your nock it should be perpindicular to the V run out.In other words if the arrow was nocked on the bow string the V run out would be sitting on the arrow rest/nuckle or faceing straight up.I hope I explained this right.Try to notice the V run out in refrence to the nock in the pics.Hope this helps someone as much as it helped me.tradrick
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This may sound silly and simple,but,check how tight the plastic nocks are gripping the string.I've had some that didn't want to let go and they gave me some real erratic flight. If thats the case you can heat them lightly and bend them out.
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Yes mullet I've had that problem also.I've heard of the heating method but have never used it.I have taken a piece of sandpaper folded in half and lightly sand the inside of the nocks until I get the fit I want.But its important not to get them to loose or it will be unsafe to shoot.Just a light snap on the string that does'nt twang when it comes off is usally the ticket.You can also solve the tight nock fit problem by simply reserving your string with a smaller diameter serving material.Thanks for bringing this up.tradrick
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I have never bought any shafts that were straight to Begin with.
Usually I spend hours heating and straightening them.
So if you got your shafts and didn't straighten them to begin with ,they will not be consistent no matter what.
I usually keep a bunch of different weights and spine arrows together when Am practicing, once I get them to hit true , then I know I can shot just about anything with my bow.