Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: duffontap on August 05, 2007, 04:26:33 pm
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I've been harvesting Cascara this summer and I got a few staves that were the right dimensions for warbows so I thought, 'what's to lose?' Because I didn't want to waste time, I decided to hack a poorly-tillered, high weight, D-section, shorter-than-average bow out of Cascara and see when it would crystal and break. I didn't bother getting the tiller right (or even close) because the purpose was to break the bow and I thought it would be nice to predict there the break would happen...if it would happen.
The Stats:
Length: 74" nock to nock.
Width at handle: 1 3/8"
Depth at handle: 1 1/4"
1/2" tips.
D-section.
105# @34"
3" of set.
No slivers/no crystals.
Conclusions:
Cascara is by far the most 'Yew like' hardwood. It has very high compression strength and elasticity. It also has low enough bend strength to get the deep section you want with an English design. I think you could make a very nice warbow with low set if you made it out of a well-seasoned stave and made it closer to 80" for a 32" draw. I'll try this winter.
The poor bow has been pulled to 34" quite a few times. I'm amazed.
J. D. Duff
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Amazing, that's bent almost into a semi-circle. Was it seasoned at all? Try shooting it!
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Jezzzzzzzzzzzz JD that is something else. Anybody want to send me a 70 inch piece. That is amazing wood.
Dick
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That is an AWESOME experiment you did Josh!! :o :o.. ;).
I second the making of warbows out of this amazing stuff, and of course canīt wait to see how your future experiment turns out mate!!!...8)...
If you remember Josh, I posted (almost a year ago now...) a thread regarding to this amazing stuff, I never made a bow out of this material so far though.
I find here (Basque Country) at least two kind of "cascara", one is "Rhamnus Alaternus" and the other one is "Rhamnus Frangula".
Both look FANTASTIC as yours ;).One ,"Rhamnus Alaternus", is very very like Yew in appearance and the other one, "Rhamnus Alaternus" very very like Osage... :) :)..
One question Josh:
Is that cascara you have there (in Oregon) "Rhamnus Purshiana"??... :)..
Thanks for share mate!!...and all the best!!... ;)...
Asier.
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That is an AWESOME experiment you did Josh!! :o :o.. ;).
I second the making of warbows out of this amazing stuff, and of course canīt wait to see how your future experiment turns out mate!!!...8)...
If you remember Josh, I posted (almost a year ago now...) a thread regarding to this amazing stuff, I never made a bow out of this material so far though.
I find here (Basque Country) at least two kind of "cascara", one is "Rhamnus Alaternus" and the other one is "Rhamnus Frangula".
Both look FANTASTIC as yours ;).One ,"Rhamnus Alaternus", is very very like Yew in appearance and the other one, "Rhamnus Alaternus" very very like Osage... :) :)..
One question Josh:
Is that cascara you have there (in Oregon) "Rhamnus Purshiana"??... :)..
Thanks for share mate!!...and all the best!!... ;)...
Asier.
Yes Asier, it is Rhamnus Purshiana. I remember those pictures you posted last August--beautiful wood. The stuff I get around here tends to have about 1/2" of cream colored sapwood with a pink-to-tan heartwood. It is very much like a very light colored Yew. In the past I had thought it to have high compression strength and low tension strength, but I think the experiment proved that it isn't that weak in tension even if that's not its strongest point. I totally expected it to break. I'm looking forward to working with it more. I'm going to do a little flatbow next week with it and this fall I'll try another warbow.
My hope is to show that this relatively-abundant wood can supply good warbows but it's way too early to say that.
J. D.
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Amazing, that's bent almost into a semi-circle. Was it seasoned at all? Try shooting it!
Hey Simon, It wasn't well seasoned, but it had been cut for a about 6 weeks. If it was seasoned more, a little longer and tillered more evenly, I'd bet you could get a Mary Rose weight bow (you know, 130-150# ;) ) without more than 2" of set. It's not Yew, but it does have some of those light, elastic qualities. It also makes great flight bows--I'm told. I'll have to shoot it and see what happens.
J. D.
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That is indeed a good wood. Makes a good bow and is good for constipation as well :)
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That is indeed a good wood. Makes a good bow and is good for constipation as well :)
I agree, tillering to 34" at over 100lbs on a 74" stave would certainly cure constipation if I had it too! :o :
Freaky stuff Josh, nice one. I must Wikipedia that wood up.
Cheers,
Jeremy
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Jeremy, I already did. It's in the same family as hawthorn and blackthorn. The species asier was talking about do exist here but not in Scotland :(
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Josh maybe the next one will turn out better. Still a nice bow. marlon
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JD, I think I have some small peices of Cascarra that are all seasoned out and may make some nice, short flatbows. They have the look of yew but the bark is more like and eastern hardwood. You would not happen to have a picture of it lying about would ya? Maybe its black locust, but not sure. If it can take that kind of straing the bow I'm think about at 50" long and in a Modoc style may not need to be sinewed either. Should be fun to try!
David T.
PS: Nope the new bow is not done yet but will be soon. Just got it sanded a couple nights ago and once I get a couple coasts of varnish on it I will put the photos up for ya all to see. For a 50# bow in the full compass rose design it shoot pretty good if you use Cedar shafts out of it.
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Josh maybe the next one will turn out better. Still a nice bow. marlon
I hope so. This was a sacrificial bow Marlon. The intention was to concentrate the stress on one limb so I could see when it would crystal and break. You can see that the limbs are not even with each other, but they have a relatively smooth bend--no hinges. The limb on the right in the picture took very little set compared to the other.
J. D. Duff
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Jeremy, I already did. It's in the same family as hawthorn and blackthorn. The species asier was talking about do exist here but not in Scotland Sad
Hey Simon!!... ;)...
Dontīwarry about that mate!!..perhaps you canīt find these two buckthorn species I was talking about in Edinburg, where you live!!.. :)..
There are at least one, if not more species of buckthorn that you must have access to. The species in question is "Rhamnus Cathartica", and this wood must to be BEAUTIFULL fellow, and EXCELLENT for bow making too!!... :) ;)...
Jeremy, you must have access to this species of buckthorn too mate!!.. ;)...
Cheers an good look finding it!
Asier.
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That's good news Asier. Can you generally find a piece long and straight enough for a longbow?
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So you guys are saying that buckthorn is a good bow wood? In my home town here in northern michigan
they are building a new Manard's hardware store it took them years to get a permit as the DEQ had designated the area as wetlands.
The construction site was covered in shruby trees that I always thought were tag alders, BTW I grew up playing in this area.
Anyway I was talking to one of project engineers and he said the trees were buckthorn an invasive species that escaped peoples
yards and such. Don't know the species possibly R. cathartica, now that I think about it, it looks more like R. frangula glossy buckthorn.
A quote from wikpedia
The Purging Buckthorn or Common Buckthorn (R. cathartica) is a widespread European native species, in the past used as a purgative, though its toxicity makes this a very risky herbal medicine and it is no longer used. Introduced into the United States as a garden shrub, this has become an invasive species in many areas there.
If this stuff is any good there are acres and acres of it ;D
What do ya think guys?
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So no comment or what? :-\
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Dana,
Maybe you should post the same question under 'Bows.' What is the density like? Can you get good staves or just billets?
J. D.
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JD Next time I'm over that way I will stop and cut a piece, also will try fer a positive ID. If I remember right
I should be able to get 3" to maybe 5" dia staves, but its been like 30 years since I've stomped thru it.
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Buckthorn ! If buckthorn works for bows Wisconsin is full of the stuff. And someone is making a bow with crab apple also.We have lots of that but ive never seen a straight piece of crab around here. I wish pople or black ash made good bows. Got plenty of that. I will watch and see how this buckthorn thing turns out. The nice thing is nobody wants the stuff and people pay to get rid of it.
Jesse
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well the left limb looks nice ;D
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It is nice to know that Buckthorn is good bow wood. Now I only need a stave longer than half a mater and thicker than finger. :(