Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: iowabow on July 17, 2012, 01:41:14 pm
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I got help from Ron White and that has made a big difference in my shootin. I have been shootin 50 to 75 arrow on one day then the next day about ten to 20. My form and accuracy has improvied better than I ever thought possible. Now I am noticing the correct back tention and length of draw are translating to a left right drift. I think this is because it changes the spine when the arrow is not always at the same draw length. So my question is what is your trick to get the exact draw length each time. Ron told me that the modern bows use a clicker but do we have a trick to do a similar thing but in a primitive way? The more suggestions the better!
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John, I'm wondering if you're overdrawing the bow as your back muscles develop and losing the straight line that should be from the arrow point to your elbow. Overdrawing the bow with back tension can lead to the bow arm torquing to the left at the shot on a right hander. It's very common with our wheelie friends when they go to a back tension release. I always shoot best when I relax a little as I anchor. Also check your anchor point. When you're using your back hard it's very tempting to lengthen your draw length an inch or 2 to pick up the speed that comes with it. If you aren't careful it'll mess up your form/accuracy, especially when you shoot in uneven terrain (or out of a tree stand). I have never seen where drawing an arrow too far (or too short) with good form did anything but raise or lower the impact point. Inside 15 yards it has very little effect. Beyond 25 yards or so it has a much larger effect.
There is a product called the clickity click (from 3Rivers) that works with traditional bows, but it most certainly isn't primitive. Unless you shoot off your knuckle so you could feel the back of the broadhead, or an index mark on the arrow, I don't know how you'd check draw length on a primitive bow.
Good luck,
George
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OK I like the index idea. I do shoot off hand and could feel a marker. Now the question is what would I use... toothpick shaved down? bead of glue? groves in shaft?
In order to determine where it should go I was going to mark off in increments the arrow and fire ten times while running a camera. Center shoots would indicate when the bows poundage matched the spine.
Right now at 15 yards I am drifting 2 inches often to the right of dead center. My guess is that I am pulling at times just a little to hard. Last night I focused real hard and dropped 3 arrows, one after the other 1/2 from center. At that point I realized that I was always going to be drifting unless I had some kind of "index".
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Try a sinew wrap?
G
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yes! and it could be the wrap behind the arrowhead. Ok I will give it a try.
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Its not particularly primitive, but you could use a rubber O-ring from an automotive repair shop on the arrow shaft at the pile end. Get some small enough to be a tight fit on the shafts, but still possible to move back and forth until you you establish your actual drawlength. Used and discarded O-rings are fine so long as you clean them well, but absolutely DO NOT use any that have been fire damaged as they have nasty chemicals in their 'rubber' base which become active when burnt.
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I use glue on heads on my arrows, and when I draw I can feel the glue behind the point on my knuckle when I get to proper draw. Then I release. This is especially helpful when shooting bows with a shorter draw than your normal drawlength.
Jon
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Very good to get these ideas please keep them coming
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When my right middle finger tip touches the right corner of my mouth it's there-release. Are you holding the bow more vertical now? If so, cant it to open up sight window more. Good luck!
Tracy
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I know each his own but sorry I can see someone worry about not useing everything natural like fake sinew or say super glue or dozzens of other things and wanting to use a clicker. Not saying this is you.
I've used a tooth for as long as I've shot or use a dobble anckor IF YOU HAVE TO. Sorry just can't see a couple indains setting around a camp fire one holding the others bow while the other ties on a clicker. Saying not the fake sinew get the real stuff. I like to go natural.
Do you think the indains for 10,00 years set around a talked back tention. I saw you shoot at that elk today you missed because you did have nearly enough back tention.
Keep it TO 20 or under and you can kill all you want. I DO. Getting close is the name of the game RIGHT.
When it comes to killing game (taking the shot) there won't be time to remember do I have the right back tention. Learn to (keep) do everything natural. That why it's called instintive shooting.
You shoot without throught. All you need to do is remember to pick your shot. The only thing you need to remember.
KISS METHOD works everytime for me. I have the mounts ,skulls and totes full of antlers to prove it. LEARN TO SHOOT NATURAL
By the way back tention only came around with the compound. I'VE READ EVERY OLDER BOW BOOK I COULD FIND THE LAST 40 PLUS YEARS. NOT ONE FROM BEBORE THE 80'S TALKS OF BACK TENTION. When drawing a tradatioal or primite bow back tentions comes natural. You only need to a ply back tention when releaseing a let off bow. SO IF YOU DOING THE NATURAL THING YOUR ALREADY APPLYING THE CORRECT BACK TENTION.
Try drawing and releaseing a primitive or traditional bow with out useing back tention. It's there you don't have to think about it. NATURAL
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Ty, I was just wonder if there was a something that was used in the past that indexed the draw. I have only been doing this 2 years and have not read all the books.
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I have had the same problem with right-left drift,but i agree with gstoneberg.You shouldnt see that result from change in drawlength if your arrows are correctly tuned .
In my case it was the shoulder of the bowarm.when i worked the backtension i sometimes lifted the shoulder and that makes the bowarm unstable.I relearned and now keep the shoulder low with bone to bone connection all the way from the handle to the shoulder..i still have arrows miss right and left,but not too often and mostly due to crappy releases ::)
Hope it helps.
/Mikael
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Thanks mikael looks like I have a lot to work on.
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I can tell you what I had did 4 times for people I've built bows for I filled in a second nock a shade deeper than the first but as close to the first as I could get. You when you got to full draw the string slids down into the second second nock when you get to full draw makeing it nosiable.
To get the correct lenth you just remove the front of the of the first nock(higher one) The shorter the first nock the longer before it falls into place. BAM a built in clicker.
I had a bow I'd built and finshed it and the guy had it for years. It had lost a couple pounds after 10 years or so. He liked the color of the old Osage and did'nt want me to shorten the bow and refinish it. So I put anothe nock under the first to shorten the bow to pick up pounds. And found out about the built in clicker.
But it's hard to do to get the right draw leanth but can be done. I have tryed it on 8 or 9 bows to get those 4.
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I guess that could work...But i would have to change underwear until i got used to it ::)
And i really think that a solid good technique is the best way to go.
/Mikael
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Maybe having an index will help combine all of the ideas posted so far. What I mean is that making sure that I come to full draw will develop an instinctive form so in the future it would not be necessary to have an index. Maybe my issue is not being consistant with each draw. So I am going to just try a piece of tape around the arrow as a temporay index to be removed once the form is cleaned up. Also my camera will have something I see to make it possible to self evaluate. I will take a couple videos an post that as I go so you guys can help with the form if you like. Based on what I have read so far I may have a couple things going wrong.
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When My shooting goes astray it's always one thing,..Bowarm
get that bowarm rock solid and keep pushing totarwd the target even after the shot and everything will be alright ;) ;)
To much overthinking in instintive shooting isn't good, it's supposed to be fluid and simple
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YOUR RIGHTTTTTTTTTTT NOMADIC IF YOUR THINKING ABOUT IT YOUR NOT SHOOTING INSTINTIVE.
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To get to the point where you shoot truly instinktive you vill need to practice...a lot!
And if that training is faulty you never be good at it.
So thinking and correcting problems and be open to advice until you feel secure will make you a better archer.
THEN you can stop thinking and just let the shaft fly ;)
/Mikael
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Ok so it is like learning to walk, ride a bike, or tie shoes type of thing. Do it right, repeat, and it becomes an automatic process. Just like riding a bike now if I think too much about why it works I might just drive off the road.
I know I am getting much better with practice and I seem to be improving with good form. At this point I am just trying to close my group to a very small diameter. I shot for hours in denver with a coach and never shoot outside of a paper plate size target. I just want to develop the correct form and muscles so I can do my best. The archery coach in Denver said I was not keeping my bow shoulder down and was shooting with it up. He was right and so now I am trying to relearn my bow arm. Seems when I do it right I can drop two arrows next to each other but when it goes bad it is not good with impacts 5 inches from center.
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Finally some improvement tonight. For the past couple of days I have been working my bow arm trying to keep it down and that is becoming more natural. With the back tension already working I decided to put the index tape into play. So here is the play. First grip light and knuckles at 45, shoulder down, draw to 3/4 and pull with back tension till index hits finger and release. It was real hard to put it altogether but I just shoot 8 arrows at 15 yards into a 3" circle. This is the best and most consistant shootin I have ever done. I am hoping that tomorrow will be as good. Thanks everyone for all of the input. It will take a lot of practice to get it down to where it feels natural.
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Sounds good John. Just be careful to not fixate on group shooting so much that you stop shooting at other ranges. I really think you ought to alternate your form practice with some stump shooting so you don't lose your distance eye (and maybe you are and just not talking about it). Shooting a really tight group is a LOT less important than putting a single arrow into a paper plate sized kill zone when the pressure's on. If you plan to hunt from a tree stand you need to also be practising from an elevated stand. You do need to perfect and lock in your form, but paramount is developing your confidence to the point you're sure that arrow's gonna go where you want at whatever range you shoot. Then when you hunt you won't need to worry about it at all. You will shoot your deer and then realise you don't remember aiming, anchoring, form or back tension, nothing but watching the arrow drop right in to where you were looking. It gets almost zen like. It's very cool.
George
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Thanks George
You are correct I need to do a lot more work now on realist 3d shootin with only 2 months left before deer season. I am goint get a stand to shoot out of the backyard.