Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Dane on November 29, 2012, 07:29:15 pm
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Hi, everyone. It has been a long time since I posted any projects. The latest is a Spanish crossbow of a style called a ballista. It was used by the Spanish conquistadors in the New World, where perhaps the ratio of crossbows to firearms (the harquebus, an early flint lock, was used by the Spanish) was two to one. Crossbowmen were considered an elite force, and I find it interesting that the Spanish were still using this type of weapon after gunpowder weapons had made the crossbow obsolete as a military weapon in most of Europe. Probably I find this weapon most interesting as it was used in North America, in Florida, Colorado, and other places the Spanish armies traveled to.
This particular weapon is very simple in design, and was very much a munitions grade weapon of a soldier, not the elaborately decorated crossbow a nobleman would use for hunting and target shooting. The tiller or stock is narrow and nearly straight, about 33 inches long, and was cocked with a goats foot, so there is no stirrup in the front of the weapon. The tiller (stock) of a typical crossbow was generally made from fruitwood, but in the case of this weapon, I had some nice thick planks of yellow heart on hand (Euxylophora paraensis), and it is a beautiful wood, very easy to work, dense, with great gluing properties. Like osage, it will darken over time, and should be handsome against the blued steel and bone inlays I plan for this guy.
Also, I wanted a relatively simple, fast project. I am carefully documenting and shooting each step in the building process, and think this will be the basis for an article for PA on building a crossbow. The Spanish bows used bow irons to fasten the prod (the bow) to the tiller, and at this point, the composite prods were long out of use. So, no hours of making a hemp bridal. Another plus is that these bows had a rudamentary safety, which will be nice to have and give me some piece of mind, particularly if someone else is taking a shot with it.
I don't plan to go into great detail always on this thread, but will if I find it is necessary and to answere any questions someone may have. Ive done at least one other crossbow making thread, and it was well recieved and fun to get feedback on. So, with that being said, here it is. this project is only 3 days old, and I estimate I have spent about 5 hours total so far. The prod is 165 pounds pull with an 8" powerstroke, so not terribly powerful, but should be a fun target weapon.
Dane
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0112.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0122.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0162.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0292.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0322.jpg)
Ripping the plank, tiller (stock) blank after running through thickness planer, drilling the rolling nut socket with a 1.25" fostner bit, and testing the nut in the socket. I allowed for extra wood on top of the tiller to allow for inletting and then subsequent working down and sanding. The nut is buried 2/3 into the tiller. Note: you can see a little museum booklet I am using as part of the research on this weapon called Arms and Armor of the Conquistador, 1492-1600, published by the Florida Museum of Natural History, 1990. The page open gives you an idea of what the finished bow will look like, if you squint hard :)
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Good to see you again, Dane. Always enjoy your posts.
This is gonna be interesting!
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The next shots show me laying out the prod mortise. I determined how far down I want the prod to be, then use a protractor to lay out a 6 degree angle, as the string will ride lightly along the top surface of the tiller (called the table) for part of the powerstroke. This is very much typical of historic examples. Heavy serving helps to give you a decent string life, but once even one fiber in the string breaks, you have to immidiately replace it. I imagine an army would have carried many extra strings or the materials to make them during a campaign or garrison situation.
The tiller will be reenforced with iron plating, which is coming up in the build. Spanish bows used either iron/steel or bronze, but thick gauge brass would also work well. One of the things about making a crossbow is that you have to develop at least some simple metalworking skills. I still struggle with that aspect of it, but it is worth it if you want to make these things.
To make the mortise, I measured, then drilled out the bulk of the waste wood on a drill press, then used chisels and then finally rasps and files to finish the work. I find using chisels one of the most pleasurable aspects of these kinds of projects, and invested last year in a nice set of Stanley Sweetheart chisels. They are my pride and joy.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0362.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0372.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0382.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0442.jpg)
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JW, good to hear from you again. One of my fan boys :). This project is going to go relatively swiftly, so stay tuned.
Dane
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The next and last step for today is to install the bow irons. Bow irons are just so nice to work with, and as steel bows became common in the 14th and 15th centuries, they replaced the old sinew and horn composite bows that used a heavy bridle binding to hold the prod into the tiller.
Hopefully, the photos will explain better than I can how these things work. I did practice on a pine 2x3 before I committed to possibly runining the tiller with foolishly placed cuts. Besides the two side brackets, you have two end brackets made of steel and inbetween those, two wedges. The motise for the irons is made, then as you tap in the wedges, the side brackets pull the bow down and gives you a rock steady mounted prod. I was sure to keep in mind not to make the prod mortise too tight, as the pulling action coupled with shooting the bow may have resulted in splitting the tiller. That would be kind of a drag.
I must state here I did not make the irons, but purchased them from one of the few manufacturers of crossbow parts. IM me if you want info on that, but I can't post sites, as it violates PA's policy of advertisers only. I did modify the irons, getting rid of the little docorative flurish with a hacksaw and some quick file work, and also modified the inside of the bracets. You an possibly see a little slot that works in conjunction with a foot stirrup. Since there is no stirrup, no need for that slot.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0392.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0422.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0432.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0482.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0572.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0592.jpg)
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And finally, the weapon as it appears right now. The poor artificial light really takes away from the beauty of the wood, but better pictures, like better times, are coming.
Stay tuned. More soon.
Dane
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0602.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0612.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanishcrossbow0622.jpg)
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I shall certainly look forward to your updates! I remember following one of your previous projects with pure envy for both your courage and your talent. I wanna be you when I grow up! :P
OneBow
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Thanks, OneBow. That is quite a compliment! Mostly, like bulding bows, it is a matter of doing it over and over again and learning from mistakes. You should see my graveyard of crossbows who didn't make it. :)
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Excellent thread. I remember another some time ago. Will be watching with interest. Thanks Dane
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Woohoo, another Dane crossbow thread!! Life is good. :)
George
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Oh this is so interesting!! I will be following and looking forward to more pics..
Cipriano
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Thanks, guys. I'd be working on it now, but it is only 5 AM, and I don't want to wake anyone up. Today I am making the trigger bar (the tickler) out of 0.375” by 0.5” 1018 steel, and chiseling in the trigger channel. Then I can locate the pivot point, drill the axel hole, and make the arrow groove. This crossbow is light enough that I don't feel I have to case harden the trigger sear point. It wont be long before I can then go off looking for El Dorado. :)
Dane
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BTW, if you are a Lovecraft fan as I am, I highly recommend one of his stories, "The Mound." Lovecraft made most of his writing income from revisions and ghost writing, and this story is one of those. The hero and narrarrator is a Spanish conquistador officer who meets utter horror (of course), and the story is very much a repudiation on the evils of technology and the machine age, which I think would appeal to those who embrace a more primitive worldview. The nicest volume is "The Horror in the Museum and Other Revisions," Arkham House, 1989. You can find the story in paperback and in libraries, of course. I think those things still exist. :)
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Nice work Dane...
Can't wait to dee that baby finished.
I'm sooo jealous of your workshop, mind I don't have the machining experience to use it anyhow...but I'd sure be willing to learn ;D
Del
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Thanks, Del. Regarding my workshop, it is very humble, a little part of a 1 car garage and cluttered beyond belief. My machining skills are very rudimentary, too, but enough to do these kinds of projects. I use as many hand tools as possible, and one long term goal is to make a crossbow entirely using medieval tools and methods.
Speaking of medieval technology and projects, here is a link (I think it is okay to post this, since it is not a commercial site) for an amazing project in Normandy. Guédelon castle is being built using only medieval technologies and methods, and it is expected to be completed in 25 years. There are some amazing videos and information on this project, which I find stunning and inspiring.
http://www.guedelon.fr/en/the-guedelon-adventure_01.html
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For those in the US that would like to see a medieval castle being built using medieval technologies and methods check this one out.
http://ozarkmedievalfortress.com/ (http://ozarkmedievalfortress.com/)
Grady
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Great link Dane :) cheers and Autologus.
Del
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Historical crossbows are cool. This one looks great so far. Ron
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I fixed the link sorry.
Grady
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Thanks, Grady. It is a bummer that the castle project has run out of funding. I hope they can find the means to continue.
Dane
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thats looks like some fine engineering work.......wood and metal looks cool together
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Thanks, Dragonman. The irons will look really cool once I chamfer the outside edges, but the kinda bulky look is interesting and pleasing, too.
Dane
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I finished a number of steps today. I did the rough shaping of the tiller, as I needed to do this to make the steel plating for the area around the prod, and to make the lock plates. These were made using 1018 mild steel at 0.125" thickness. I used a hack saw to cut the basic shapes, then files to get them to the correct dimensions. They are flat on the top edge, and curve to conform to the tiller shape at the bottom. I must say that the original Spanish ballistas probably had these parts forged around a form and cover all four sides of the tiller, but to make my life simpler, I chose to deviate from historical examples for this weapon. Later, I plan to use thinner gauge metal and make them truer to the original weapons. But even with this "cheat," the lock plates and front plating will serve their purposes.
To make the oblong slots in the front plating, I measured where they will go, drilled out as much waste metal as I could with a drill press and appropriate sized bit, and then used hand files to finish the holes. I left a bit of extra metal on them for final adjusting once I either rivet or screw (debating which method to use) the parts on.
Inletting the front plating was simple, if a bit time consuming. Draw the outside edges, then use a chisel to inlet. I used some rasps and files as well, and it was relatively fast work. Really good and very sharp chisels makes this work easier, but even inexpensive chisels will do.
You can see that I still need to do a bit more work to get the steel flush with the sides of the tiller, but they are mostly there.
I'm taking a break for the day, and will continue tomorrow. Thanks for watching.
Dane
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanish0012.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanish0052.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanish0092.jpg)
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(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanish0212.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanish0242.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanish0252.jpg)
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(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanish0312.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanish0322.jpg)
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Here are a couple of photos of historical examples of this kind of crossbow. I believe that this is in a museum in Malta, but my Russian is rusty, and I have to check into that.
You can see a variety of differences in the shapes of the lock plates and the plating at the "muzzle" end of the bows. And some are iron / steel, while others are bronze or brass. I opted for the simplest designs, but will spiff up the weapon with some inlayed bling on the top of the tiller aft of the lock, perhaps crosses?
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/med_gallery_699_2199465.jpg)
The crossbow closest to your view at the lower left of this photo shows the plainer rectangular lock plate, and this one is definately steel. I can't say if the metalwork was originally in the white, or if it was colored or treated in some way. I am not sure what will look best, but no rush on this step.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/med_gallery_699_2386214.jpg)
The middle weapon is the one I am using as a model for the front plating. Notice that one some of these crossbows, the plating travels all the way to the end of the bow, and while it looks great, for this first one in this style, less metal is a good thing from my perspective. Also, you probably have noticed (or will now lol ) that some of the lock plates are a kind of L shape. I can't begin to say why there are different styles, perhaps just builder's preference? You can also see in all of these weapons the lug aft of the rolling nut that was used in conjunction with a cranquin or perahps goat's foot lever to span / draw the bow. For military bows that probably drew 300 or more pounds, you would absolutely need mechanical aid to draw them. For a dinky little 165 pound bow, a belt hook system would be fine, though I do plan to build a spanning device for this. That is way down the list of steps, so more on that when I get to it.
What is a cranquin, you say? Here is a shot I took of a splended example of a craquin in the Higgins Armory, in Worcester, MA. This is a German device, and while there is another style that slips my mind, these things are mechanical wonders, with a series of gears inside the gear box. The arm with the claw draws the bowstring up as you crank on it furously while men die and things are smashed and other war stuff is happening. I imagine you can also make a pretty decent bludgening weapon out of both the crossbow and the cranquin, should you run out of ammo.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/various12892-2.jpg)
Dane
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Nice pics Dane, cheers.
I worked with a guy (Alan Bilbow) about 40 years ago who got into making miniatures, he did a beautiful 1/4 scale cranequin, all by hand including the 3 toothed gear which engages on the rack, it worked a treat.
I think making a full sized one would be a huge amount of work.
He did one with a complete windlass too, it was a pain trying to keep the strings from tangling up, I expect that was true of the real thing too.
Del
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Thanks, Mr. Cat.
That miniature cranquen sounds like fun. I have a full-sized one a client owns that I am using for a heavy German-style bow. I'll have to post some shots of it later. They must be very difficult to make, far beyond my own metalworking skills. One company in Poland makes them, and they are very costly.
Windlasses are neat, and one day, I have to think of making one myself. The straight ended stock with the reenforced ends, like that Spanish bows I posted, used the windlass. They must have been difficult to keep from getting all tangled up, like Christmas lights. :) Obviously, the Spanish style didn't use this kind of winding device, as the lugs are there on all examples, and the stirrup was used to steady the bow as you spanned it. Perhaps it is just decorative and not functional? For this bow, I plan to make a nice butt using some bone and horn I have here.
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I think those lugs are for a Goat's Foot lever as those are relatively light bows.
I've never tried a goats foot lever, it must be tricky to get the curve right to act smoothly. Maybe could work it out with CAD (cardboard aided design ;))
The bending levers I've made hook onto a ring at the front of the bow.
Del
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I reckon making a goat's foot would be a challenge. You will notice the rings at the front of all the Spanish bows? Perhaps providence, thus, I am making that same kind of spanning device for this crossbow. A real Conquistador would laugh at me, but since they are long dead, that is not an issue. :)
Dane
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I reckon making a goat's foot would be a challenge. You will notice the rings at the front of all the Spanish bows? Perhaps providence, thus, I am making that same kind of spanning device for this crossbow. A real Conquistador would laugh at me, but since they are long dead, that is not an issue. :)
Dane
Yeah, now that Halloween is gone I recon we're safe from the zombie conquistadores for a while at least :laugh:
Del
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Conquistador zombies aside for now (but a worthy topic in and of itself), I have done some more work over the last couple of days.
First, I have finished the inletting for the two front plates and the lock plates. Then I lowered the height of the table (top surface of the tiller/stock) by less than 1/8". It was easy enough, mostly done with a farrier's rasp and then some sanding. The edges will be rounded all the way around, so no worries there.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0152.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0182-1.jpg)
The next step is to make rolling nut bearing blocks. These are traditionally made of bone. I had some thicker pieces of cow bone, and started by filing in a goove with progressively larger round files, then took a piece of 1.25" D doweling, the same outside diamater as the nut, and continued to deepen the groove. Probably for a crossbow this light in draw weight, the bearing blocks are not critical, but it will make for a faster release, as the nut will spin faster than in an all wood socket, and they look pretty nice too.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0062.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0112-1.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0102-1.jpg)
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Next, I laid out where the front bearing block will go. I did this at an angle to give me the most "meat" in a very tiny piece of bone. The blocks will be flush on the top surface of the stock/tiller. I used a 1/8" and 1/4" inch chisel and went slow and easy, and it was really not as difficult as I had anticipated.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0212-1.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0232.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0192-2.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0202-1.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0252.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0272.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0282.jpg)
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And finally, there is the front bearing block. A little more work needs to be done to get a better wood to bone fit, but overall, I am pretty pleased.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0322.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0302.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0332.jpg)
Here it is with the lock plate held into place with finger pressure.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0362.jpg)
I started the rear bearing block, which is not as deep or heavy, and that should be all done and ready to glue in today.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/latestspanish0382.jpg)
After that, Final touchup of the metal plate inletting, and I can then make the arrow groove and inlet the trigger, sometimes called the tickler.
Dane
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I wouldn't have thought it needed a rear bock as all the force is pulling it forward?
Do have a precedent for the bearing blocks? I've not seen a crossbow of that era dissassembled so I've no real idea.
Del
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I honestly am not sure why crossbows have a rear bearing block (called foreseat and rearseat by Jens Sensfelder, a major German authority on crossbows), but they do seem universal with crossbows having rolling nut lock systems. You can always see them. They look like little bone strips in front of and behind the nut. With heavier bows, they seem to have been pinned into place vertically.
Dane
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I honestly am not sure why crossbows have a rear bearing block (called foreseat and rearseat by Jens Sensfelder, a major German authority on crossbows), but they do seem universal with crossbows having rolling nut lock systems. You can always see them. They look like little bone strips in front of and behind the nut. With heavier bows, they seem to have been pinned into place vertically.
Dane
Cheers, I didn't realise they went so deep. I'd thought they were just sort
of decorative strips that protected the edges of the socket. It's good to learn new stuff.
Del
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Having incredible hindsight, would it have been easier inlaying the unshaped bone into the stock and then boring out the space for the roller?
I am fascinated with the bone bearqings, had no idea they were used for this purpose. Thanks for the education, Dane.
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My pleasure, Del.
JW, I did try that with an earlier project. I inletting the two bone blocks into a wooden block, then drilled the nut socket into this, the idea being to then make and drop it into a mortise chiseled into the top of the tiller. But the heat from the drilling operation (I use forstner bits) ended up seperating the glue line on both blocks from the heat of the drilling. This was with 2 part epoxy. Other glues may work better, but it was a great deal of work, and this method is a lot faster and more satisfying for me.
Dane
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Today, I got to stay home and work from my home "office", revision work, and at 8:40, I was in the dentist's chair to fix a filling that had fallen out on Monday. No novicane, I was out of there in about 40 minutes, so huzzah!
So, I get to spend some time in the shop.
I finished making the rear bearing block, and then inletted it. Everything went well, and I think the second one is a little better. Still a TINY bit of addtional work for both sides, but I am about ready to glue them in.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/newconstruction0022.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/newconstruction0032.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/newconstruction0042.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/newconstruction0052.jpg)
Finally, I began the trigger / tickler. This is 0.375" x 0.5" 1018 barstock. Being not a smith, it was fun. I measured where I wanted two bends, then clamped it in my vice, and grabbed hold, and began bending, with much grunting and such. Of course, the bar was so long, it slammed into the garage door chain mechanism, so I cut it and then proceeded to bend again, using my body weight. I then put in the second bed so it is a longish s-shape now. This follows the pattern of the actual Spanish crossbows, and they are as long as the tiller / stock, all the way to the butt. It actually was not too bad, and I did a bit of addtional "adjusting" (meaning pounding the hell out of it with a sledge hammer as the trigger rested on a big wooden stump I use for brute force fun. :)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/newconstruction0062.jpg)
Now, since I am going to have to wait for glue to dry, I am using a program called Google Sketchup (free and a lot of fun CAD for challeged folks like me, ha ha) to find the exact placement of the axel pivot hole. I will go into this later, but the idea is that you want to NOT push the nut forward in it's socket as you push on the trigger. The trigger as it engages the sear will just push the nut forward if you don't factor this in and create a kind of convex surface. If that makes no sense, it will later.
More soon,
Dane
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;D Lol I have built 1 cross bow, a low shooter because of the trigger design, it was an experiment. Soon I will build A medievel style cross bow with the roller nut trigger.
Just want to say that for the roller nut, what I have got is old bed legs some of them are hardwood, you just have to grind away untill the taper is level. Other sources are old rolling pins for rolling bread dough, hundreds of them in the thrift shops. good luck..... ;D
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;D Lol I have built 1 cross bow, a low shooter because of the trigger design, it was an experiment. Soon I will build A medievel style cross bow with the roller nut trigger.
Just want to say that for the roller nut, what I have got is old bed legs some of them are hardwood, you just have to grind away untill the taper is level. Other sources are old rolling pins for rolling bread dough, hundreds of them in the thrift shops. good luck..... ;D
I wouldn't use wood, it could just snap off across the grain and would thus be rather unsafe.
Horn, bone, antler, steel (or aluminium or nylon if you don't mind modern materials). All of those except steel will need an insert for the sear.
There are simple safe wooden mechanisms.
Del
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I agree with Del, but for low poundage crossbows, you can use a hardwood nut. Just remember, low poundage, and be sure the grain configuration is right. I know one crossbow builder who did use walnut for his nut, but you will need to insert a metal sear. In medieval times, it was a steel wedge inset into the nut from benieth.
Moose antler is about the most perfect material. I use stems, and turn them on a metal lathe. This material can handle up to 1000 pounds or more, and you can drill and insert steel pins in the nock ears to reenforce them. Not all antler will work, though, and stuff with a lot of pith will not be that desirable.
Delrin is a thermoplastic that is actually a fantastic material for nuts up to maybe 200 lbs. Very easy to work, and it comes in rods of various diameters. You can get different colors, and the cream and white colors look a bit like antler from a few paces away. I have a very dark grey, almost black, that looks really nice polished up.
ABS is also a plastic that you can use, but up to a certain poundage, say 100 to 150. Steel makes for a slow nut, and so a slower bow, but you can machine in the sear out of the nut material and drill some holes to lighten the thing a bit.
Aluminum I would stay away from. It is easy to machine and work with hand tools, but it oxydizes an ugly black that gets all over the place, and gums up the nut socket pretty quickly.
Dane
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;D LOL... ;D Oh I hear yaaa. low poudage your are ok using wood as a roller nut. The one I built is only around 50-60 pounds max. I have seen ones with the sear made out of metal, that's what I would do if using a wood piece exceeding 80#..
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I figured all those words were not needed for you :) Drilling and sinking two steel pins in the lugs would also really help keep a wooden rolling nut together, too, say, 3/16 D cold rolled stuff.
Okay, I glued up the front bearing block. Nothing earth shattering or new here for this community. I used 2-part epoxy, mixed it with a little plastic cocktail sword to give it a kinda swinging lounge vibe, and clamped it up. Later today, I'll do the same to the rear block, maybe using a cocktail umbrella, as I am out of regular toothpicks.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/glueup0042.jpg)
I want to talk a bit about sear points and how they interact with the trigger. As you push the tickler / trigger up to fire the crossbow, if you have a square facing to the end of the trigger, it will push the sear forward as it travels down, and that means the the rolling nut will move forward and than backward a bit, and that will impact accuracy, and I imagine may even set up a dangerous situation with misfires. I have a program called Google Sketchup, which I highly recommend everyone getting. Free program, it is a very simple 2D CAD type program. I've struggled for years to learn CAD with very little luck, but Sketchup is a great tool, easy to use, and great for all kind of design situations.
Attached here are two very rough (you can do some amazing things with this program, but I was working fast and dirty) drawings of the crossbow mechanism. Illustrated here is the tickler / trigger and the rolling nut. And, then, you can see a closeup of the sear and sear point. See how the end of the trigger is rounded off? This ensures that the above issue never crops up. I have had this happen with other projects, and it can really ruin your day, and sometimes, a new trigger has to be made to solve the problem. The nifty thing about the drawing program is that I can draw the different components as seperate elements and then use a rotate tool to see how things interact. If the axel point is not right, it may push the nut badly forward as the shooter engages the trigger. About 30 minutes spent doing this drawing and playing with it really eliminates some grief, and is time well spent. Plus, you get to feel like a real engineer. :)
The third drawing is for a two axel trigger design for a commissioned crossbow I have in the works, a super heavy 900 lb. German crossbow. The two axel design is much more appropriate for this kind of draw weight, and so much more time has to be spent designing the trigger. The whole point of posting it here is not to amaze you or impress you lol, but just to illustrate how handy Sketchup is here. Just moving the axel points a tiny bit really impacted how everything works together, and the time I spent with this program paid off handsomly. I have printed this at 100%, and am using it as a template to drill the axel holes precisely, and to make all the interior components to the correct dimensions. Otherwise, you'd hear my curses all the way to the west coast. :)
The Spanish single axel lock:
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/Spanish.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/searpoint.jpg)
And the German double axel lock:
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/2axelrefinedfinal.jpg)
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...
Aluminum I would stay away from. It is easy to machine and work with hand tools, but it oxydizes an ugly black that gets all over the place, and gums up the nut socket pretty quickly.
Dane
I was a bit lazy, I meant a decent Aluminium alloy really :-[ , but even so it's prob not the best choice if you have other alternatives.
Del
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Yup, an alloy would be okay, not sure which material would be best in that category. A fellow countyman of yours, Todd (I know you know him, since you posted a goat's foot of his) uses steel I think pretty much exclusively in his crossbows, and his work is just top rate all around.
I'd like to try steel one day, but currently lack the ability to machine in the sear. Perhaps one day I will invest in a little benchtop milling machine. That would open up all kinds of avenues for making neat toys. :) Casting in bronze would also be really interesting. I have an unfinished furnance I need to get back to, crucibles, etc. The chances of a horrible firery death has kind of made me hesitant to continue in that direction, though. :)
Dane
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Yup, an alloy would be okay, not sure which material would be best in that category. A fellow countyman of yours, Todd (I know you know him, since you posted a goat's foot of his) uses steel I think pretty much exclusively in his crossbows, and his work is just top rate all around.
I'd like to try steel one day, but currently lack the ability to machine in the sear. Perhaps one day I will invest in a little benchtop milling machine. That would open up all kinds of avenues for making neat toys. :) Casting in bronze would also be really interesting. I have an unfinished furnance I need to get back to, crucibles, etc. The chances of a horrible firery death has kind of made me hesitant to continue in that direction, though. :)
Dane
I don't actually know Todd, I just pulled that goats foot pic off the interweb.
The steel nut on my big bow was all cut by hand, just the hole in the middle was turned. There's not too much material to remove for the sear, it's all the material up the top by the fingers that took the time amd sweat and time and more sweat... It was made back in days when we had a coal fire and I case hardened the sear in that. Damn gas central heating, no good for metalworkin'
Del
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Google him and check out his stuff. He also forges some amazing medieval knives and other nice stuff. Hence, his name is Todd's Stuff.
I may end up giving making a steel nut a go one day. I can reduce the size of the nut a bit to help lighten it up. I drill and tap my antler nuts for a steel threaded rod that I make the sear from, and I guess I can just do the same for a steel nut. I actually enjoy filing metal by hand, as tedious and difficult as it can be. A milling machine would really make my life easier in this regard, though, so perhaps this coming year I should save up for one for my next birthday present to myself. A milling machine would allow me to make small half-scale Roman and Greek siege engine parts, too. Full scale one too, for that matter.
So many projects, so little time.
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Your pivot point CAD drawing and angle on the end of the trigger has me wondering... could you just place a compass at the pivot point and mark the arc at the end of your trigger and get the same result? Much more primitive and direct method if the idea is to make it work without pushing the nut forward during the stroke.
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I'm sure you could with a single axel design. Mocking up components with cardboard or foam core or balsa wood is also a good way to mess around with ideas. With more complex triggers, Sketchup is a great tool. Since we all have computers and the Internet, not having the technology is not an issue here.
Dane
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Your pivot point CAD drawing and angle on the end of the trigger has me wondering... could you just place a compass at the pivot point and mark the arc at the end of your trigger and get the same result? Much more primitive and direct method if the idea is to make it work without pushing the nut forward during the stroke.
Yes, that's the easy way, but you must open the compass out to the distance between the two pivots. If you draw a radius from the nut pivot which meets a line from the other pivot at 90 degrees the sear will be sliding out on that radius and won't exert any rearward force.
I always use 'Cardboard Aided Design' (CAD ;) )
Del
(Sorry if I'm poaching on Dane's thread :-[)
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Poaching in ye old king’s forest, knave? :) Feel free to post whatever you wish to discuss, Del. I am always glad to have new ideas and ways of looking at things.
Remember that I am not trying to replicate medieval design methods, and how I design and build a crossbow is almost certainly quite different than how it was done in the 13th – 16th centuries. I think it would be arrogant and misguided to even consider that I am doing that. Hand tools are preferred, but modern tools, including computers, are nice to have. There must be many old guild secrets lost to us, so we will never know for certain how an arbalester working in 15th century Dresden or 16th century Madrid would have taken a project from conception though completion, where he sourced his raw and finished materials, if he purchased goods or services from other craftsmen, how many men worked on particular project, how long it took to complete a commission, and so on. Were work instructions verbal or were the men who built crossbows literate? Were they transient craftsmen or did they have permanent workshops? What status did they hold within weapons making in general (probably armor makers and sword smiths were at the top and projectile weapons makers were lower in status, I am guessing)?
Which, I think, just buttresses the notion that the more we know, the more we find out we don’t know.
Dane
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So, in the 15th centrury, would a Sword Smith not have considered the first son of an Arbalester a worthy match for his third daughter save he brought limited or no demand of dowery?
OneBow
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So, in the 15th centrury, would a Sword Smith not have considered the first son of an Arbalester a worthy match for his third daughter save he brought limited or no demand of dowery?
OneBow
I think a couple of Owls or a sack of ferrets would be required to ensure the match ::)
Del
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If the swordmaster refuses the dowery, simply elope to Burgandy or some other strange foreign land where labor is cheap, learn the craft of sword making, and then crush the old man economically with shoddy goods. :)
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Well, now that the bone bearing blocks are glued into place (with an issue I build in by not thinking things through carefully, but a mistake that I have rectified already, more on that as we go along), and now it is time to create the trigger inletting.
I've already determined the pivot point for the trigger axel, and marked that on my tiller from the outside. Then, out came the files and about an hour's time was what it took to make my sear. Pictures later (meaning I didnt take any but will).
I marked out things on the outside of the tiller, and on the bottom. Just like sculpting a marble horse, where you remove all the marble that doesnt look like a horse and you are done, I removed all the wood that wasn't the slot and the slot emerged. This work is not hard, and I used a bit of the same steel as the trigger to ensure I didn't make the slot too wide, as I dont want the thing to wobble all loose in the slot (loose like, say, a tavern wench, but only her morals, of course), but not so tight that it has no chance to enjoy the darkness of the slot.
Keep your chisels razor sharp and this makes things way easier. I got the slot close, then used the chisels sans mallet to shave the sides until I was satisfied with the width. Keep in mind that wood expands during dampness (you all know that), so I want to ensure that if the enemies of my lord attack the keep on a damp day, I don't have a stuck trigger, which is embarrasing. I will surly then get kicked out of the arbalist guild.
From the side and bottom:
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerinlett0022.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerinlett0032.jpg)
Chiseling:
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerinlett0062.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerinlett0082.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerinlett0122.jpg)
Test fitting:
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerinlett0132.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerinlett0142.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerinlett0152.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerinlett0202.jpg)
And finally, the slot with the trigger resting in it. It looks good to me, so next time I go into ye old shoppe, I will then continue to deepen and refined the bottom of the slot. The wood there will act as a stop to keep from depressing the trigger too much, and also, I will be drilling in a hole and inserting a coil spring for the trigger, so it pops back down into place, ready for the next time I span the crossbow. If that sounds vauge and confusing, I am too about most stuff, and will cover that as I finish up this area of the crossbow.
Dane
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Lookin good! I always smile when I see you've posted. :)
George
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Thanks, George. I am glad you are enjoying this journey. It's fun to post something substantial and get all stupid doing it. Now that the trigger area is close to being done, the major steps are going to be making the arrow groove, inlaying whatever stuff I like into the tiller (many of the Spanish crossbows had crosses, so that may be a good way to go), finishing the tiller all pretty-like with our good friend TrueOil, making some strings (endless loop style, but flemish twist strings are also very doable, if not so historically accurate), finishing and fastening all the metal parts, and going out and shooting stuff. I'm trying to get this done in time to celebrate my birthday on the 24th, but if that isnt possible, then it should be done soonafter, and I can get back to other crossbows I have in the works.
Dane
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Ah, today was a happy day in the shop. I began by doing about 15 more minutes work on deepening the trigger slot. It was nearly there, so it didn't take a lot of work, but the trigger needed a bit more room so that I could center the axel hole. I also did a bit more work on the opening in the bottom of the nut socket, and hopefully, the pictures will tell that tale.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0022.jpg)
This shows the completed (or nearly completed) area I have just been referring to. The end of the trigger, which I have been calling the sear point (for lack of better terminology, perhaps a gunsmith has a different term) will then slide into the sear slot and against the sear in the rolling nut.
I then marked the axel hole, used a center punch on it, and then put it in the drill press vice and drilled a 3/16" hole, which is the diameter of the trigger axel. It doesn't have to be this massive hunk o' steel, since the crossbow is pretty light, and if it was a heavier weapon, I'd scale up accordingly.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0032.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0062.jpg)
Next, I slipped it into the crossbow and too see if everything was where I wanted it to be. I had already drilled half the tiller / stock with a 3/16" drillbit, and wanted to make sure I got this right before I drilled out the other side. I had to do a very tiny bit of adjusting to get this thing just a shade deeper, and instead of removing more wood, I clamped the trigger into my bench vice and filed the top.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0082.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0092.jpg)
I took very little metal off, perhaps 1/128" or even less.
In that last shot, you can hopefully see what the sear facing end looks like.
Now, I drilled the other side of the tiller / stock for the axel pin.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0102.jpg)
This next image is a little file work I needed to do to adjust the access hole for the trigger, and the last couple of shots should illustrate why I had to do that. I used a small triangular file for this work, with the tiller / stock clamped into the vice so I had both hands free to do this work.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0112.jpg)
Now, I tapped the pin into place:
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0122.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0152.jpg)
It worked! Huzzah. And last, a couple of shots to show the trigger end as it looks when the trigger is not depressed (meaning the end is up and engaged against the nut sear), and depressed upward as if the weapon had just been shot, showing the trigger end down, as if it had cleared the sear, allowing the rolling nut to be rotated forward as the crossbow is shot.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0182.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/triggerstuff0172.jpg)
Ye of eagle eye may be saying "man, it sure looks sloppy in there." I do have to clean things up a bit, smoothing and sanding and filing and whatever else it takes to get the inside of the nut socket all ready. this is probably the sloppiest looking area thus far, but I am not too stressed about it, and it will be fine in the end. I'll also be waxing the inside of this socket and getting it all slick to faciliate a fast release upon shooting.
That is all for now, and more again soon.
Dane
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it's looking good Dane i can't wait to see it finished
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Thanks, Killir duck. I've got a lot of momentum, and that entire lock system was the slowest single part of this build to undertake. Now that it is just finesing stuff to do, I expect to be able to get the inlaying done by the end of the weekend, get that arrow groove chiseled in, and begin doing final shaping of the metal parts and get those installed.
Dane
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This is pretty neat stuff it inspires me to try something like it
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Thanks, Darwin. I find these medieval weapons a lot of fun to build, and even more fun to shoot.
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I just came in from the shop. The arrow groove is now pretty much done. It was easy enough to do. I measured very carefully and found the center line, then measured two lines, giving me a 3/8" wide groove. This is to accomidate the types of bolts I make, so you have some flexibility there. Some crossbows are made with a triangular bolt groove, but I like a rounded one, and it is easier to make. Being careful about finding your center line is critical, otherwise, you get a crossbow that is not accurate.
After drawing on my lines, I used chisels to start the groove, then used a file, and finally, sand paper wrapped around a bit of doweling. I had to extend the groove to the front bearing block. Note that I have a very nice glue line on that thing overall.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0012.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0032.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0062.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0072.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0082.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0092.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0102.jpg)
Then I got back to the front plating. I marked out where I want my four screw holes to be, driled them to accomidate the cross head machine screws I picked for this, and then used a 1/2" countersink for the four holes. Please note that the period crossbows had this plating riveted on. And later, I do plan on building others that I will rivet, giving it more authenticity, but for this one, I am happy to cheat a bit. I am using stainless steel screws, and that helped me make up my mind to keep the metalwork on this all in the white, ie not blued or browned.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0122.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0142.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0152.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/countersink0162.jpg)
And that is all for tonight. Tomorrow I will get the rest of the steel parts drilled and ready to screw down, and then I can file and fit the edges of the plating, and then begin finishing the trigger, which will be lots of filing, mostly. So, the weapon is getting pretty close to where I can get the tiller / stock finished and get in some shooting. I think my end of the year deadline is workable here, and hopefully, so will getting it done by my birthday. It's my 50th, so I expect some fun at the range will make it a little less difficult to take.
Dane
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No photos, but the four steel plates are fully inletted, and now creating an inlaid bone and horn design midway between the lock area and the butt on the top surface of the tiller, which I will inlet later this morning. Still a bit too early to be pounding away and sawing and sanding in the workshop. I have a 1.5 HP 12" disk sander that is great for this kind of work, but it is a bit loud. :)
Dane
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is there a advantage to the v notch over the rounded one?
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I dont think so, Darwin. If there is any advantage I can think of, it is that you can use different sized bolts in the slot, but that doesnt seem enough to justify its use over a round one. Round ones are just easier to make, at least for me.
Got some inletting done. I decided to make a cross to keep in the spirit of the orginial Spanish bows. I had some bone that was the ideal width, and after marking out where I wanted to symbol to go, I chiseled out the opening and epoxied in the bone, then used a clamp and let it sit for a few hours to cure. I then used a handheld belt sander and finished up the area.
Note the gouge, which can happen, but I had more than enough depth of the bone pieces, coupled with the fact that I had left a bit more wood on the back two thirds of the tiller for this kind of situation.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/inlett0012.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/inlett0022.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/inlett0052.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/inlett0072.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/inlett0082.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/inlett0092.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/inlett0112.jpg)
The biggest lesson here is no matter how raggedy the inlaying looks are you work through the process, it is going to look great in the end.
And with that, I will go get some Chinese food.
Dane
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Great work so far! Ron
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''Ballista''? don't you mean Ballesta? it's spelled bash-eh-s-tah altogheter. Ballista is the bigger siege version, isn't it?
Pretty good work, though. I love it xD
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Thanks, Ron!
Okay, got lots more done.
I concentrated on two areas, the rolling nut socket, and the steel plating.
Regarding the socket, since I took a presumably modern approach to boring it out, I had of course a side that is solid wood, and a side that is nothing wood. I had a cutoff piece from when I trimmed the butt area down a bit to make the weapon just a bit shorter, and so, I trimmed a thinnish piece with my bandsaw, and then made a little el-quickie template from paper, drew it on the thin piece of wood (with grain configuration running the same way as the tiller), and then trimmed it with mostly a disk sander and files. Once I had it where I wanted it to go, I glued it in place with Tightbond III and clamped. Please note that I did have to do some work with a Dremel tool to recess the area enough to glue in this plug (for lack of better term).
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/platework0012.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/platework0022.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/plating0022.jpg)
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''Ballista''? don't you mean Ballesta? it's spelled bash-eh-s-tah altogheter. Ballista is the bigger siege version, isn't it?
Pretty good work, though. I love it xD
Yeah, you got me man. Spanish is not my primary language, being an American lol. Noted, it is spelled ballesta.
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Next, the plates were already inletted and ready to go from the other day. I found where I wanted my screws - riveting is the proper historical way of doing this, as I explained before - drilled the screw holes, countersunk them, and then sank in pilot holes for the screws. Not doing this will lead to a world of hurt.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/plating0012.jpg)
Then, I screwed them on. No photos, as that would be entirely too boring.
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Hold on, bring in the boring squad.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/platework0042.jpg)
There I am, screwing in the screws.
Note that I had to factor in the depth of the wood behind the lock plate. The area in front of the lock plates had full depth wood, so I used #6 3/4" stainless screws, but because of the trigger recess, I used #6 1/2 inch screws, so there is no screw sticking all out and looking bad, and possibly laying in wait to poke me, and gum up the trigger.
Also, after fastening down one plate, drilled the plate out from the inside for the trigger axel. I then fastened the other lock plate down and drilled the axel hole for that side.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/plating0042.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/plating0062.jpg)
And that is all for tonight. I still have the task of filing the metal parts flush with the top and bottom surfaces of the tiller, and get to finishing the trigger bar so I can get that installed. Also, you may or may not have noticed the holes in the wood for the rolling nut axel. The lock plates will keep that in place, and the real purpose of the nut axel is simply to keep the nut from occilating and flying out of the crossbow when it is shot. It isn't a load bearing (or whatever the term really is) component at all. Earlier German and Central European crossbows simply had a cord that bound the nut in place and kept it from getting lost on the hunt or in battle.
Dane
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A lot of work has been done over the last few days.
The metal plating is filed down and ready to be finished now. I began scraping and sanding the tiller, and am doing fine tuning on the shape of the tiller with files and rasps, as well. I glued up a buttplate made of bone and then a thick piece of horn, which I will post photos of later.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/sanding003.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/sanding007.jpg)
I also wanted to do something special to this weapon, and came across the Spanish phrase "Obedezco pero no cumplo," which means I obey but do not comply. This was a common phrase used during the Spanish colonial and exploration period, and shows the disdain that the colonial personnel felt toward the crown, and it seemed almost American in it's cool arrogance. I was thinking also about battlefield art that comes from various conflicts like WWI and the Vietnam War, particularly the flak vests and helmets that were decorated in the field by individual soldiers against orders, and sometimes not something you would necessarily repeat in "polite company." :)
But how to do this? I have lousy penmanship, and really admire those who can do well executed art on bows. I toyed with the idea of making stencils, or using liquid frisket or some other masking material to make the letters, and then came across a very nifty way to do this.
Basically, you print out the letters at the size you want using a font of your choice. I found some Rennaisance fonts that seemed appropriate, messed about until I got the right size of the font, and printed it out.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/lettering0012.jpg)
I then turned it over and covered the area under the letters with pencil graphite using a standard ol' #2 pencil.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/lettering0022.jpg)
Then, I taped the "stencil" onto a piece of scrap red oak to test this idea out. I then drew over the letters as carefully as I could, pressing down really hard.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/lettering0042.jpg)
When I lifted up the stencil, I was left with this:
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/lettering0052.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/lettering0062.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/lettering0072.jpg)
I wont show you the results of my painting over the letters, as I used red oak that was not sealed, but it should work great with the type of wood I am using (yellow heart), which is very close grained, plus I will be sealing the wood before painting on the letters. Since I want to get across the idea that a disgruntled soldier stuck on guard duty in some swamp in Florida decorated his crossbow out of boredom and frustration, it doesn't have to be perfect, but I do want the letters to look professional and be neat and tidy.
I may not even do this, but do think it will add a bit of fun to this crossbow.
More soon,
Dane
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One of my co-workers who is from Cuba offered a few other translations of that phrase but being such and old phrase the dialect could well have changed.
I obey but do not serve (like i will do what you said but not because you said it)
I obey but do not comply (meaning I will act like im doing what you want but i will really do whatever i want)
I just thought it was interesting and my Spanish is not that great
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Literal translation does not serve this phrase perfectly, which is oft wont to be the case. The phrase is a play on the similarity of the meanings of the two words. The first word focuses on the detailed meaning of the orders, the second focuses on the attitude of the one following the orders.
OneBow
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Thanks guys. Considering what the conquistadors were there for and what generally happened, it makes sense. They were in the service of Their Most Catholic Majesties Ferdinand and Isabella. One big mission was settlment and colonialization, but as often happened, they went off in search of fabeled wealth, and often died to a man as they faced the elements and the native peoples.
Dane
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And thus it continues.
While also continuing to rasp, scrap, and sand the tiller, I also am working on finishing the metal parts. It is grunt work, but feels good to see each component all shiny and ready to be installed on the tiller.
I also needed to address the tickler / trigger return spring. On earlier crossbows in particular, the trigger spring is a leaf spring fastened to the top inside of the trigger recess. When you pull the trigger by pressing the trigger bar up, the leaf spring then pushes it back into place after you take the shot, ready for re-spanning of the crossbow.
For this one, I made the spring from a modern coil spring, and wanted it under the trigger. Since, of course, there is a no wood in the trigger recess to drill the hole to put the spring into, what I did was made a little block out of the same wood as the tiller. It was fast and easy. Trimmed the block to basic dimensions, then used a disk sander to get it just the right size.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/buttandblock0012.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/buttandblock0022.jpg)
I put the block into the drill press vice, set for the depth of the hole, and drilled.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/buttandblock0042.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/buttandblock0052.jpg)
I used 2 part epoxy, slipped it into place, and clamped it up.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/buttandblock0062.jpg)
All that took about 20 minutes, and was easy as proverbial pie.
Last, here are two photos of the buttplate. Spanish bows did not have this feature, but I thought it would look cool. I used bone and a piece of horn I had on hand. It still needs final shaping and polishing.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/buttandblock0072.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/buttandblock0082.jpg)
Dane
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When I read your explanation of the disgruntled soldier marking his tiller my first thought was that he would use a knife and whittle the message. There is a type of carving that uses a "V" notch formed by making a straight cut in the center of the shape (letter in this case) and then widens it by making angle cuts towards the straight cut.
Ballesa coming along beautifully. Looking forward to the finished product.
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Thank you, Shaun. I did consider carving in the letters, but I have virtually zero experience with that kind of approach, so I am taking a pass this time. It may be something to try and learn for future projects. Ive always loved seeing carved letters in ceiling beams, things like that.
Dane
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Okay, the lettering is mostly done. I will clean them up a bit more, but for the most part, it was a nice way to do fancy lettering if you are not a calligrapher.
I ran through the procedure earlier in this thread, so wont say much, but here is a sequence of photos showing the good, the bad, and the ugly using this method. They look pretty rough until the very end. I used the tip of a utility knife to scrape and clearn up around the edges of the letters as I saw fit, and if you mess up totally, you can easily scrape and sand away the work and start over. I did seal the wood last night, to give myself the smoothest surface possible.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0012.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0042.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0052.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0062.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0072.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0082.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0112.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0152.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0192.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/painting0222.jpg)
Later today, when I am totally satisfied, I will start putting the finish on this tiller. I think TruOil will be a good way to go.
Dane
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Nice work with the lettering :)
Del
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I love your lettering here. I'll be borrowing your technique...
OneBow
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Thanks, Del, and thanks, OneBow. That method is just so easy to work with.
Dane
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TruOil is very nice stuff. Just put on the fourth layer.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/oil0022.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/oil0032.jpg)
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These builds of yours are always too cool! I don't know if I'll ever make a crossbow but if I ever do I know where to look for some good material. Thanks for sharing in such detail! Can't wait to see the finished product. :)
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Thanks man. Based upon the bows you make, you'd do a kickass job making one of these.
I drove about 50 miles round trip yesterday to pick up some Tru Oil, as I couldn't find my large bottle. This morning, I immediately came across the large bottle. :) How we suffer for our art. :)
I've put the last coat of oil on it, and will be assembling it later today. With a wee bit of luck, I'll be shooting it in the next few days.
Dane
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Wonderful work! I was thinking of you on Friday as I sat in mythe stand holding a modern crossbow. I really like this design. I feel a new winter project coming on. Thanks for posting.
George
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Thanks, George. This kind of enthusiasm makes it all worthwhile, and keeps me doing creating this thread.
This morning, I made a crossbow string. I am the WORST string maker ever, meaning although they are perfectly safe and functional, they are not pretty. There are many, many ways to go about making a crossbow string, from a mega-authentic hemp one, to using modern materials and serving the ends in different ways. This is my lame way, so please don't laugh. I will say I need to really practice and get better at making nice looking strings.
I made up a jig out of scrap red oak and some bits and pieces of hardware. One jig is for measuring, and I have various holes drilled to wind longer or shorter skeins, and can add additional holes if I need much shorter strings, like say for a pistol crossbow. Making a string about 1" shorter than the distance between knocks is the rule of thumb to get the string at the 3.5" brace that is optimal for this prod, so since this prod comes in at 27.5" between nocks, I made the string 26.5" long. I do factor in some stretch, since I am using B-50 for this string, but is not so much of an issue that I make the string shorter to compensate. The 1" rule works out fine for me for this length of prod.
I wound on 40 winds, so this string has a breaking point of about 2000 lbs, I suspect more than enough for a 165 lb. pull :) I did make it fatter than I needed to, just for aesthetic reasons, since a historicl string is a massive, massive thing, as big around as your thumb. And, frankly, having a way bit of extra insurance is not a bad thing. I did no doubt sacrifice some performance to a thicker string, but not enough to loose any sleep over.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/string0012.jpg)
Now, all wound up and ready to go, I put the skein on the stringing jig. Ugly, ain't it? I have the four steel rods there so I can serve the tips for half the width of the string, and then, after putting it on again after both ends are served, serve it again and have my loops. Then, I just serve the middle. Not all that much of the string itself is visible. The thing with crossbow strings is if you break one little fiber, the entire string is unservicable, so, all that serving serves a purpose.
Again, you are looking at the world's worst string maker, so forgive me.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/string0022.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/string0072.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/string0082.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/string0152.jpg)
Last for now, I took care of getting that front ring on.
Yes, I heard someone in the back of the lecture hall ask why this is not hand forged? The answer is, I am not a smith. Since this is a first crossbow of this design, and since I am using stainless steel screws instead of rivets for the lock plate and front plating, I figured it would keep the entire weapons aesthetically pleasing, ie look nice. I love this style of crossbow, and expect to build a number of others, and then I can try out different ways of fabrication and different materials, including more authentic riveting, etc. Since though this is really in interpretation rather than a strict replica of a particular weapon, the stainless steel front ring I think is fine.
Now, the way I installed it and the way I probably should have installed it are entirely different. What I probably should have done is drill a hole a bit smaller than the outside diameter of the ring's shank, heated the shank up cherry red, and then installed it. Instead, I drilled a 3/8" hole the depth of the shank. There was quite a bit of play. I trimmed and wrapped the shank with a a very thin piece of buckskin, slathered it up with epoxy, and pounded the ring into its hole, while hoping the entire while the front of the tiller didn't split. Had that happened, you would have been woken up by my screams of horror and remorse.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/string0162.jpg)
All went well, the tiller is still in once piece, and the ring is nice and snug in there. Whew. Oh, sorry about how fuzzy that photo is.
Later today, with a wee bit of luck, the crossbow will be essentially done. Stand by more more.
Dane
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Nearly done!
Today is my birthday, and what a great way to spend it mainly in the shop, with the wife's blessing lol.
Lots of tiny last minute things to do, like filing and smoothing down the top and bottom edges of the lock plates, etc. Since the finish was already on, it got dinged up a bit in some places, but that is no problem with True-Oil, as I will just touch up those areas for factory new appearance.
I had to do some fine fileing and sanding and polishing inside the rolling nut socket, and waxed it with pure beeswax. I made the axel from 3/16" cold rolled bar stock. The lock plates hold it into place, and although I have mentioned it before, the primary purpose of the axel is to keep the rolling nut from ocilating out of the crossbow when it is shot. The nut is in full contact with the entire socket and the bone bearing blocks.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0082.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0102.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0112.jpg)
I also cut to length and inserted the trigger spring. You want enough omph to push the trigger back up and into the nut sear when it is spanned, but not so much that it wears excessively on the nut.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0042.jpg)
Finally, the lock is all done! Whew.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0132.jpg)
I made the bottom plate next. I admit I got a bit lazy and used pretty thin 22 gauge steel for this, and really should have made it from the same steel as the rest of the plating, but it looks nice. I cut it to size, filed to get it just the right size, then drilled out the square area the trigger exits the bottom of the weapon from, and filed the area until I was satisfied. I ended up using round headed screws, as the material is so thin, countersinking it may have been a hassel.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0152.jpg)
A bit of trouble, in that the trigger was stil rubbing a bit in places in the recess, and that was slowing it down. I used a sharp file and shaved wood off both sides, and that fixed that issue easily.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0172.jpg)
Last, I slipped the prod into the mortise. I padded the front and back of the prod with elkskin, to obsorbe some shock when the weapon is fired, and also a bit of insurance. When a steel prod fails, a rare thing but it does happen, it usually shatters right around the center of the prod. This will help there is that happens. I trimmed the leather later, after tapping in the wedges.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0162.jpg)
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And here it is, thus far. I still need to refinish the tiller in a few places, nothing big, and work on polishing and even filing the various steel parts, depending on my mood and now much more metal finishing I want to do (hint, wood is easier :) )
Overall, I am really, really satisfied. No give in the trigger laterally, meaning it isn't all sloppy in there and can be moved from side to side. The trigger snaps nicely into the sear when I simulate spanning it, meaning the spring pushes the sear end up crisply as the nut rotates back, which happens when you span the bow without having to do it manually, something I had to do with earlier crossbows, so the design is better executed.
I will be adding some green cordage wrapping to the trigger bar, in keeping with one original crossbow that had two nice little turk's heads between the wrapping. Now I have to dig out my Ashley's Book of Knots and learn how to do that. Pray for me there :D
You can probably see one huge mistake I made, in that I though it would look good to paint the bolt groove dark red. It looked less than what I had hoped for, but I can't get all the paint out of there. Hopefully it doesnt detract too much, and that is a lesson learned.
Here are some shots. They are not optimal, but I will be taking much better ones later, after I string the bow up and begin testing it. That will happen maybe even tomorrow, since we have no family to visit and obligations or trips to make, etc. We even skipped a tree this year, and it is nice having a low key Xmas.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0182.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0192.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0212.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0222.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0242.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0252.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0282.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0292.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0322.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0342.jpg)
Finally, what to name it? I dont generally go in for naming weapons, and no, in the Infantry School, we were not required to give our M16A1s a girl's name. But for this, maybe a name. I threaten my wife with naming it Ponce de Leon, or Vasca de Gama, in honor of two explorers they tortured her with in grade school history classes, but maybe I should name it Sad Pedro, the same name as this weird piece of pug art we have proudly hanging in the bedroom.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/nearlyfinished0362.jpg)
If I dont get back to this thread until after tomorrow, Merry Christmas and happy all other holidays to one and all. Hope you all get everything you put on St. Nick's list.
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Very cool.. Names? How about El Dorado or Mi Dorado?
Feliz Navidad!
Cipriano
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Looks great! Shooting video soon???
George
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Frohe Weihnachten, criveraville, and thank you. Who knows about a name, it will come in time if I do name it.
Absolutely, if not today then soon, George. Thanks.
Dane
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Wow Dane that is one nice project. You really did a great job!
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Adam, right? Been a while. Thanks so much. I'm pleased, and it came out a little above my expectations. There are things I wish I had done differently, and will with the next Spanish style crossbow, after I take care of a few other projects.
Dane
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Nearly done. The other day, I made a bastard string to string up the weapon. A bastard string is one way of getting your string on a crossbow, and the more powerful the crossbow, the more excitement you will have :) I made this from 1/8" steel wire rated for about 280 lbs. of breaking strength, along with two U bolts and wire rope clips.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanning0022.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanning0132.jpg)
I padded the center of the wire with leather to minimize finish damange to the top of the crossbow, as well. The wire will eat into the finish fast.
Before, that, I made a cocking device out of scrap osage and hickory, and some left over hardware. It is not pretty right now, but I will revisit it later and sand and finish it. I wanted to make it with off the shelf hardware if possible, and it worked out okay. I mocked the cocking device up with cardboard to get the geometery right, and it didnt take that long to make this thing, maybe 2 hours. Historically, a goat's foot lever or cranquen would have been used.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanning0152.jpg)
Yes, I know it is inelegant, but it worked. The books are on the floor to get the bow off the trigger. And, there was a tiny bit of damage to one of the rolling nut lugs, not much, but a good illustration to why I generally file those down a bit. As long as you have enough of the lugs to hold the string, you are good to go.
The fix for that lug was simply to file down the lug tops a bit. Here that is in progress.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/centering0012.jpg)
So, the procedure here was to span the bow and then slip the string on. The U bolts allow for this, and hopefully, the lousy pictures show this. I didn't want to mess about taking a lot of pictures, as this procedure is not fun and I wanted to get it done as quickly as possible.
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Now the moment of truth comes, in that you find out for real if you got the prod socket at the right angle. The string is lighly touching the top surface of the crossbow at draw, and that is exactly what you want. I had shot for 3.5" brace height, and it came out to 3.75", which is just fine. Hurray. However, the bow was canted slightly to the right (left as viewed from the business end). I am not sure you can see this in the photo, but here it is.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/centering0072.jpg)
With a bound in prod, things can be a bit more complicated, but with bow irons, it takes but moments to get this right. Tap out the two wedges, adjust the bow in the socket, and tap the wedges back into place. I'm doing that with a little hand forged hammer.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/centering0102.jpg)
And that is that.
I marked the exact center of the string, and the prod and string are at a 90 degree angle to the tiller. Just what I wanted.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/centering0112.jpg)
All strung up and nowhere to go, as we had about 15" of snow yesterday, so going to the range was out of the question.
Last, here are a few other shots of the cocking device. The hook hooks into the ring at the front of the crossow, and you can hopefully see how this works.
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Nice pics, that lettering looks really good tucked under the trigger.
Regarding the "why isn't it forged" heckling from the back.
I'm with you in that we set our own target for this sort of thing and it's an experimentation and learning exercise. Sometimes the penny drops and we see 'Ah, thats how they did it' other time we just learn... hmmm that's not a good way to do it.
I think a level of consistency over a project giving an even look is what's needed, and that's what you've done.
I think shooting the critic was maybe a slight over-reaction ;)
Del
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Thank you, Mr. Cat. No critics are going to get shot, but perhaps zombie pizza delivery boy targets. :)
Photobucket was giving me trouble, so the posting will continue now.
Dane
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Finally, a few addtional photos
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanning0182.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanning0202.jpg)
And the spanning device.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanning0212.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanning0222.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/spanning0232.jpg)
As I said, tomorrow (or today? I have to work from home, but if I get done in time, then off I go to my club) to start shooting this thing. We have an indoor pistol range which is ideal for this, and no blue hands and lips from Jack Frost's loving embrace. :)
I will be taking video and photos of course, and hopefully, this thing will perform to my expectations. 165 lbs should give a nice little bit of omph.
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One last bit of stuff, in that, as we know, leaving a wooden bow strung for a long period of time is not a very good idea. With steel crossbow prods, this is not nearly as much of a concern, so you don't have to go and remove the string each time you are done shooting for the day. That would be a very huge drag.
I've left a prod just like this one, at 100 lbs. strung for about 18 months, with no damage whatsover. There are instances of medieval steel prods being strung for many hundreds of years with very little degradation in performance on record, as well. If I were going to put the crossbow into long-term storage, I would remove the string, of course. And, I do have this nifty stringing rack I made up. It consists of two heavy timbers bolted together in a cross configuration, with two 1" steel rods placed at about 25" apart in the cross timber. I use this along with a hydraulic jack rated at 2000 lbs. You simply put the crossbow butt on the jack (with a thick piece of leather to pad it to avoid finish damage), and pump away. Slip on the string, lower the jack, and you are done. I don't have pictures of it right now, so hopefully my description makes sense.
The reason I didn't use it this time is that I built it for shorter crossbows. This particular weapon is 4" too long, so I will modify the rack by adding an addtional 6 inches to the bottom of it.
And with that, back to other stuff. Look for the testing photos soon.
Dane
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You have got to do a You Tube video shooting that thing. It looks great and the engineering and craftsmanship and impeccable.
Grady
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Sir you're craftsman extraordinaire! What a work of art! Can't wait for the video
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Thanks so much, guys. I make plenty of mistakes though, but get better, I hope, each time I build a crossbow.
I will post video as soon as I can.
Dane
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it's been a lot of fun watching this thread. keep up the good work
Duck
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These are works of art Dane, do you have any pictures of your collection? I wold love to see one!
Jon
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Thanks, killir duck and Infrit617.
I went and did initial shooting earlier today, and it really does exceed my expectations. Yes, there will be two short videos, and a few still shots, but I was messing about on the range and still have to get my deadlines met, so I have to get back to that. I will say that the long trigger makes for a very easy release, and I did have to make a few adjustments to the lock. I will go over that later and also do some decent videos and photos, and observations on the strenghts and weaknesses of this design, over the weekend. But I am smiling, and this one was a success.
Dane
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Great work there Dane. Stringing that thing would really up the pucker factor for me. Hadn't thought about how big a deal that would be until those pictures. Can't wait for the videos.
George
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Thanks, Scott, and thanks, George. Yes, there is a...bit....of stress and excitement when stringing a heavier crossbow. The good thing is once you do it, you are set until you have to replace the string for whatever reason.
I'll get a few more pics and (I did it before, I keep saying to myself) videos, via youtube later this evening or tomorrow, and then more videos and stuff shortly after that. I didn't catch my first bad shot on video, but you should have seen the sparks flying when I aimed too low and the bolt skidded across the concrete floor. It was fun :)
Dane
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Well, this may not be totally satisfying, but I didn't have a lot of time at the range today, and so only got a few shots. More and much better soon, promise.
But, here are a few. I set up a standard round hay archery target by leaning it up against an aluminum step ladder (didn't feel like hauling the heavy stand into the basement range), and shot at it at 15 yards. The bolt penetrated nicely, and thwacked the ladder a few times, as the bolts were getting in there deep.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/testing0072.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/testing0092.jpg)
I'm holding the bolt at the point where the shaft was exiting the target.
Overall, totally fun. I can't even say what kind of performance this thing is getting in FPS yet. Ah for a chronograph. I'll see if any club members have one I can borrow.
As I said, more stuff over the weekend.
Dane
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Now I have started testing the crossbow.
I did have to modify the rolling nut, and enlarge the space between the lugs, as it was too narrow for my bolts. Many medieval crossbows (and most if not all modern ones) had bolt clips, and I don't really care for them, and with the Spanish bows, they never had clips in the first place. The bolt is wedged into the lug, which holds it reasonably well.
Then, I had an issue with spanning it. When you span the crossbow, ideally, the string pushes the nut back and it locks into place as the trigger, pushed by it's spring, moves into the and against the sear. This wasnt quiet happening, so I glued on a very thin wedge shaped shim of sorts to the back surface of the nut. It worked perfectly, and when I span it now, the nut does it's thing and it is ready to shoot.
Here is the nut with the bit of antler glued on. I filed it down, and it was a simple job. About 20 minutes of filing gave me the little wedge shape I needed, with the high end of the wedge to the rear.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/testing0062.jpg)
And it all worked out well. The first youtube video (I hope I got this right), shows the spanning and shooting process. It is an indoor pistol range I am using, and the crossbow is resting on a couple of sandbags, which puts the trigger up of the bench surface.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYU4k17a_o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhYU4k17a_o)
It worked. It is about 34 seconds long, hoperfully not too boring.
You can see the velocity i am getting, maybe 160 fps? I think this is pretty decent for a light crossbow, and the medieval crossbows. According to someone who posted on another site:
Jean Liebel in the book Springalds and Great Crossbows the initial velocity was 50 to 60 metres/second in general for medieval crossbows.
Factor in also that crossbow bolts are very heavy. I use 3/8" oak doweling for the basis for my bolts, and 125 grain heads, which are pretty light, really. You have slower velociites, but heavy bolts, which do some damage to anyone unfortuante to be at the pointy end. And, a true replica of a Spanish military crossbow would have at least a 350-400 lb. prod minimum.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/testing0112.jpg) is my very first 3-shot group once I determined that the bow worked. No sights, and you aim using the bolt tip as an aiming reference. It takes a lot of time, like with primitive bows, to start hitting consistently. And this shot shows my second (two!) shot group. I was so excited, I decided to not fire that third bolt and ruin a nice group :)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/testing0152.jpg)
Here is the back of the target. The bolts were punching mostly and all the way through. Some areas are denser on the target, which is a bit old, but overall, decent penetration.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/testing0122.jpg)
And finally, while i was at the range, a zombie showed up! Oh no, but luckily I was armed, conquistador style. Got him in the head, but not the brain area, alas, and he then bit me and I am writing this as a zombie armburster. Dont send flowers, as I wont appreciate them in my new dead state.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMt9y72KbuM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMt9y72KbuM)
Notice the target shake when the bolt hits? This stuff is fun.
Now, a few more words. Just a short time at the range, maybe an hour, and I had an issue come up. The rear bone bearing block became loose. That shows the forces at work even with such a low powered weapon. It will be an easy fix, and many heavier bows had the front and back bearing blocks pinned into place with small rivets. That is something I will not neglect in the future, and it is all about learning by doing.
Hopefully, more and better videos later, but for now, I am done with this weapon. And I have already started my next project, and will spend the first day of the new year in my shop. All of you have a fantastic, boozy (or not boozy) celebration, and cheers to all. I welcome any comments as always. Thanks.
Dane
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Nice vid :)
Del
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O, that is way cool. Looks like it shoots great. How long is that bolt??
George
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Del, thanks. Im still a bit new to youtube video stuff.
George, thanks. The bolts are a shade over 14" long, two fletched, and no spining to worry about! I dont have a grain scale handy, so I can't tell you how much they weigh, but more than a cocktail umbrella and less than an adult pug. :)
Dane
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Hmmm, I need to design one that shoots a longer bolt. May have to PM you and do some arm chair engineering...
Very nice work!
George
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If I can help in any way, just yell. Historically, crossbow bolts are short. These things can be super powerful, but the ballistics are different than with bows, and what you can or cannot do are dependent upon many factors. They do shoot a pretty high arc, too, as you probably have noticed. One real positive is that you can learn to shoot a crossbow much more quickly than a self bow. To become a champion shooter, that is different of course :)
And, they are just flat out cool :) Far more complex than a bow, but that is part of the appeal of them, too.
Dane
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Thanks. The modern crossbow I've been playing with shoots 18" bolts and has a trajectory similar to low end modern wheelie bows. Hunting weight bolts shoot in the 250fps range. Of course, it isn't fair to compare your replica to a current crossbow in terms of performance. It terms of "cool" factor your bow is far superior. I would have to rig up a "safety" of some kind before I'd be willing to hunt with it. Season is about over for this year, but next season I'd sure like to be using a crossbow I made instead of one I bought, unless I can't make one that's safe enough. I really like your spanner. I can say from experience that pulling that string back at 175 lbs does take some effort. The stirrup popped off my boot once and I tried to drive the butt-stock through my chest. Not my idea of a good time.
I'll PM you my email address so we can take this off-line. I don't want to muddy up your great build.
George
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In my experience with those big long triggers, the 'safety' is just holding the stock with all your fingers between stock and trigger so it can't be pressed.
The trigger pull is more like squeezing a grease gun rather than a hair trigger.
Del
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In my experience with those big long triggers, the 'safety' is just holding the stock with all your fingers between stock and trigger so it can't be pressed.
The trigger pull is more like squeezing a grease gun rather than a hair trigger.
Del
I believe you Del, but remember that I intend to hunt with this crossbow. You have to consider the dangers associated with getting the bow into a tree stand, spanning it while 15' in the air...standing on an 18"x24" platform, then safely hanging it from a hook so that your hands/arms don't go completely to sleep while you're waiting for game to show up. Worse yet, I sometimes sit in a ground blind with a 9 year old granddaughter who tries to hold still but fails...and gets into everything. Believe me, Murphy loves bowhunters...so if something can go wrong it will, and at the worst possible moment. The arrows have broadheads on the front; I neeeeeed a safety.
George
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George, review the photos I posted on page 2. Some of the Spanish bows came with a kind of safety, and it is pretty clever. I was going to install one on this, but just didn't, but future ones of this style I do plan to do that to.
It is one of the top bows in the first shot. You see a kind of post looking thingie between the bottom of the stock and the trigger. It is a little bar that is pinned into the stock and rotates up and down. The top surface of the trigger has a slot in it (milling it in would be pretty easy, even by using a drill press and files). The little bar rotates down 90 degrees and engages in the slot in the trigger. When you are ready to shoot, simply rotate the little bar forward and up and you are ready to go.
Later period historic crossbows did have build in safeties, they looked like keys. I have details around here on that, and builders come up with various means of putting the crossbow on "safe."
Even a wooden wedge that you can slip between the trigger and stock will help, but not as effective as something a bit more well designed.
Dane
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That came out wonderfully. Nice video of shooting. I am still tinkering with mine and wondered how to stop messing with it. You have the perfect answer, start another! Thanks
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In my experience with those big long triggers, the 'safety' is just holding the stock with all your fingers between stock and trigger so it can't be pressed.
The trigger pull is more like squeezing a grease gun rather than a hair trigger.
Del
I believe you Del, but remember that I intend to hunt with this crossbow. You have to consider the dangers associated with getting the bow into a tree stand, spanning it while 15' in the air...standing on an 18"x24" platform, then safely hanging it from a hook so that your hands/arms don't go completely to sleep while you're waiting for game to show up. Worse yet, I sometimes sit in a ground blind with a 9 year old granddaughter who tries to hold still but fails...and gets into everything. Believe me, Murphy loves bowhunters...so if something can go wrong it will, and at the worst possible moment. The arrows have broadheads on the front; I neeeeeed a safety.
George
I see the problem!
Del
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Well, I actually left out the most significant issue...my ineptness, especially when a nice deer comes in and turns my brain to jelly. You really should visit some day my friend, so you can get your own big dose of adrenalin. :)
George
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Thanks so much, Shaun. Crossbows are addictive. Make another one.
Here are just a few shots of the work I was performing earlier today, and has nothing to do with the Spanish. This is that 750-850 lb. German crossbow. Some lessons learned in this build gave me the tools for some areas I wasn't quite sure about, like how to inlet bone bearing blocks. Because of the massive weight of the German, tolerances are much, much lower, and mistakes can blow up in a very spectacular way. I spent months designing this trigger, for instance, and the time was well worth it. What you see here is the toggle and the trigger. These are both going to be case hardened.
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/new0042.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/new0062.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/new0132.jpg)
(http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/Danemitchell/new0112.jpg)
George, I heard that happens when you get a deer in your sights. :) I've never hunted, so I can't speak from experience.
Dane