Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Prarie Bowyer on December 04, 2012, 01:14:00 am
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We should start one as a sticky.
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I'll second that! Good idea Prarie.
Tattoo Dave
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This sounds great! ;D
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would love to see that as a sticky
Matt
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sounds like a good idea to me
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It would be easier to add it as a post and keep it going. There are a lot of stickeys now that aren't seeing any action. But,,,It can be done easy enough.
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What ever...I'm not seeing bone points.
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Here's a bone arrowhead video I just uploaded:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvs9F80N9x0
;D
Edit: I'm making a bunch of bone points today and I will post pictures when done.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/05-13-09/079.jpg)
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WOW! nice! could these be used for fishing?
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(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab346/sadiejane9/arrowheads-homemade/DSCN8338-1.jpg)
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(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab346/sadiejane9/arrowheads-homemade/DSCN0480.jpg)
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really like bone points.
havent made any in awhile as my dremel broke.
tho i have made em entirely by hand the dremel spoiled me...
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Cool looking points. Too bad about your Dremel, Sadie. :'( Maybe Santa will bring you a new one.
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The barbs on a bone arrowhead are delicate and not very good for fishing, in my experience. Especially with big fish (over 10lbs). A better way to do it is to tie on a pointed bone sliver to the side of the shaft, pointing backward. I'll post a picture to show what I mean.
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The barbs on a bone arrowhead are delicate and not very good for fishing, in my experience. Especially with big fish (over 10lbs). A better way to do it is to tie on a pointed bone sliver to the side of the shaft, pointing backward. I'll post a picture to show what I mean.
Does this kind of head "toggle" or come off the shaft once it has passed thru the fish? BTW, Gorgeous reproduction that you posted, Mr Crackjafty, gorgeous!
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Nope, the barb does not toggle. The head can be designed to come off the shaft, yes, just like a harpoon head.
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Thanks! Can't wait to see the pics.
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Here are the pictures of the bone arrowheads I made this evening. The glue and some wrappings are not shown because I needed to switch out the arrowheads. Enjoy. ;D
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0265-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0266-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0268-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0273-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0274-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0275-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0278-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0279-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0280-1.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0281-1.jpg)
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Man them look great,mighty fine work. :)
Pappy
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Ohhhh.. Ahhhhh that's the stuff. Oh baby...
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Awesome points. great posts keep them coming.
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(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab346/sadiejane9/arrowheads-homemade/DSCN8338-1.jpg)
Nice.... Commentary?
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O man I like the also.Beautiful. :)
Pappy
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(http://)First attempt. I was curious to see how feasable they were. Slices through paper like a rasorblade . Took about 10 mins to make with the bandsaw and beltsander. They look great on a dogwood shaft and compliment the more" primitive" style bows quite nicely.The others posted give me inspiration to pursue this endeavor further.It also makes me wonder just how much further the timeline of archery stretches beyond the 10,000 years that is currently supported by archeological evidence, as bone points,animal/vegetable based strings, feathers, and wood bows don't typically hold up too well in the climates of the areas where they would be used. (other than arctic)
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Hi,
Sure is fine work here...note to Sadie...friend of mine sent his Dremel back to the company...told them he loved it and all there tools, etc...and they sent him a rebuilt...no charge at all...(after talking about it they can't really lose as they sell all those sanding disks and such...bet that is where the profit it...anyway...consider sending it back with a nice note and see what happens..
Catahoula
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Here are a set of bone points I made from the thigh bones from a doe I got last year with the rifle. The longer ones with pencil marks on them I am going to make shorter as they can almost flex in my fingers.
Paul
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What if you dipped them in super glue?
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I guess I could do that but I have plenty of length so shortening them a bit should not be a problem. I am trying to decide how to handle the concavity on the inside of the bone...might make for hafting to a shaft troublesome. But I guess I can just try one and see.
I have a memory that here in GA broadheads have to be at least 3/4" wide...? Can anyone confirm that?
Thanks, Paul
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Boiling them will take the limberness out of them . The oils and whatnot (too sientific?) leach out and make for a stiffer /harder product. My wife thinks(knows) I'm crazy but I use the bones from the roasts for arrow strike plates and they are nice and hard . The head from the pic above ,I believe is rib roast.LOL. I wouldn't overdo it though as it may become too brittle. Medium well is just about right. ;).
Paulc. try using the concave bit to your advantage for hafting. Like the stone points you have to play with the notch and fit each individually.
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Hey, so i was thinking about making some bone heads, but i noticed that most of the time the bone heads will be around 50 grains. so to increase weight i was thinking, could i drill a hole in the center and then cut a same diameter steel rod section so i can fill in the hole with it. I was thinking this would allow me to get upwards or 150-200 grains or more, and at the same time i would be adding some style. Is there any structural disadvantage to what im talking about? The metal would be glued in.
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I noticed the same thing about bone heads. My plan was to use african blackwood to make footed shafts and weigh the pieces before assembly. I'd drill a small hold in the shaft and fill it with lead shot to get up to total desired grain weight.
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If you want heavier bone points just make them bigger. My bone points average 70-100 grains in weight, depending upon the lengh and width I make them. Remember that any hafting material will also add weight to the front of your arrow shaft.
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Just make steel heads and paint them white to look like bone. ;D I won't tell. O:)
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If you are using shoot shafts ,with the fat end forward, there will already be a fair bit of weight forward of center. By the time you add pitch (or whatever glue you want and your lashing material you should be able to bring the ballance point to a few inches F.O.C. . Might save a lot of farting around with steel and lead etc. What would be the point of making a cool bone point only to sully it with things like steel? If you had steel ,wouldn't you just use that for a point? Just sayin' ;D
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Jack Crafty~ did you see his latest one? Dictator? It was BETTER than Borat.
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I dont have sheets of steel laying around. i have available to me in the stores steel rods which i could cut up. This is kind of what i had in mind! its shinny and looks good.
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Nope, haven't seen Dictator. I need to see that one.
Interesting idea on the drilled holes filled with sliced steel rods. The structure looks a little fragile around the lowest hole but other than that it I don't see why it wouldn't work.
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Is that going to be a flat point with beveled edges? Or will it have a center ridge? If you epoxy the steel in and then try to bevel it for a center ridge on a belt sander, the epoxy will get hot and turn loose. How about boring a hole, then counter sinking each side of teh hole just a bit to leave a ridge or centerline in teh middle. Cover one side of the point with something solid and melt leade into the hole. File it flat with the point or bevel it. The ridge in the countersink will hold the lead in place.
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i was just thinking that i would make it flat with beveled edges, i wasnt going to have the first hole close to the notches. i would spread it out.
Some time next week i should be able to get some pics up of my progress, im going to try it out and share my results!
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i just finished my first set of bone arrowheads, these are the best i was able to do with my stupid belt sander lol
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Those look great to me!
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Cool!
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Looks good to me! Haft 'em up !
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thats the thing. they arnt for me! they are for my xmas trade recipient.
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They'll make someone very happy!I still can't get over how sharp they get.
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yep, they will get there tomorrow! hopefully they like it!
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Hunted with these this week...almost a shot...nice doe @15 yards...wrong side of the tree.
Lyle
(http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h386/Lyle_Shaulis/160AD56C-E12A-46BE-A9D8-79C44F302552-2739-0000076DC8487D9D.jpg)
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man those are sweet looking points! bet they would have kill it :D
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I just made my first ever bone arrow tip. Stole my dogs bone(: She didn't seem so happy as she watched me sand it into a nice little arrow head. She even tried to chew on it when I showed it to her. Should I feel bad? I'm a thief. Well anyways, here it is.
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its not sharp yet. are you going to sharpen it???
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I didn't figure out how to do that yet, any tips?
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well you can use a sander or a file, but basically you hold the edge at an angle to the file or sander, then angle should be the angle you want your bone blades edge to be.
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How sharp is it going to turn out? Sharp enough to cut yourself if you rub it?
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You know when you sharpen a knife and you hold up a piece of paper and just kind of lightly push it through the paper as it makes that sort of swiswing sound without tearing the paper but instead cleanly aprting it like a paddle cutting through water? ..................That sharp!...........................I guess I could have just said be careful!. ;)
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Well I guess I better go sharpen mine up!
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Mine could have cut me, its not a toy for sure ::)
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SOME NICE TIPS
I don't have any to post but I have made a few dozzen but have traded them off. But I did trade for a couple moose antlers last year to carve but I might make a couple heads.
Here's a couple things might help you out.
MOOSE antlers not propous like other antlers. A drimal makes makeing heads easy and fast. For hunting heads (steel or bone) I use the 3x1 HOWARD HILL ratio or ever 3/4 works better with lower poundage. The thinner the points the sharper or better edge they can get. You can't really shapen them like steel heads.
I shot 2 does to years in a row with bone points made of moose antlers. They kill just as quick as anything with lung shots.
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Here are a few i made this past weekend. Due to slick roads, I couldn't get to teh shop, so no power tools were abused. Hacksaw, sandstone, sandpaper and some files were what i had.
(http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp161/madcrow_2008/Bones/100_1199_zps047c391b.jpg)
I tried to get them thin for better penetration, even though there are only two that i can hunt with.
(http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/pp161/madcrow_2008/Bones/100_1201_zps0abab27a.jpg)
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Now that I see them on the big screen, i see every mistake I made.
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Madcrow can't see no mistake's those look pretty nice to me.
Rob
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Man yall are making some fine looking heads.Very nice work. :)
Pappy
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I stained mine, I think stained looks better than plain white.
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Very Nice points Eddie. I need to free up some time and get some made up
Matt
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Normally I soak them in coffee, but i figured i better take a pic before I give them away.
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Madcow...those look great....I like the looks of them while they are white, but they look like a flashlight when you're setting in a tree. They look pretty cool when stained with leather dye also.
Lyle
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:) More inspiration...
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/DSC_0517_zpsf6284546.jpg)
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg112/jackcrafty/strongbonearrowhead.jpg)
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this is a photo from the book "earth pigments and paint of the california indians"
by paul douglas campbell.
tried to find them online but cldnt so just took this pic.
really nice bone points that i would like to replicate when i get another dremel.
yeah yeah, i know my ancestors didnt use dremels but they woulda ifn they had em
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab346/sadiejane9/arrow%20making/IMG_0889_zps04700987.jpg)
there are some interesting bone points on the lithic casting lab pages
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What about barbed antler or bone forshafts? That would be something neat to see, like from the hupa arrow set from P.A. article Treasures of the Smithsonian a few years ago.
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a few barbed bone points from history
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab346/sadiejane9/artifacts/images-13_zps9aeeff22.jpg)
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab346/sadiejane9/artifacts/images-14_zps9db7388e.jpg)
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab346/sadiejane9/artifacts/images-10_zps1d6166cc.jpg)
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab346/sadiejane9/artifacts/images-11_zpse5be1e92.jpg)
(http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/ab346/sadiejane9/artifacts/images-12_zps567f2cd1.jpg)
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Nice, Sadie!
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Ok Sadiejane asked me to post these here. These are my new work and the dove tail is the last one that was not posted before. Beat root stain(http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u455/Tris_Smith/knapping/FF2911FF-E21A-48FD-84C4-7F0EF71F0640-2532-0000056C26BF24F4_zps1f0748f7.jpg)(http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u455/Tris_Smith/knapping/53CD84CE-4137-4029-B513-D99B867577AE-2532-0000056C146659D3_zps2a31717a.jpg)
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What is the brown stain?
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The brown is homemade black walnut. Thanks
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Do pet store bones work okay? As they are boiled before they are shelved I have some apprehension before buying one.
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Raw bone has merrow oils in it. This makes it soft. Pet store bones work great. Go for it.
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My 1st attempt at a 3 bladed bone broad head along with some elk tooth knock inserts.
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very cool 8) love the inserts.
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Thank you JackCrafty, Bone lets even someone like me that can't make a rock point still make a hunt-able point.
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I see the guy on the vid used beef, deer & elk bones. What other bones are good? I assume chicken bones are too brittle?
Are any of the bone tips sturdy enough for stumps or trees?
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I use deer and elk bones and yes they are sturdy enough for some stumping. Ed
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My last 3 weekends. Have them down to steel wool stage. This was one beef bone from local store. Punctured my fingers about 5 times, not too bad. :)
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NICE! 8)
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Very nice!
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why not use bamboo sharfties and put lead in the sherft
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I looked at these photos so many times before I made my first bone hunting points for this year I wanted to contribute in return, great resources in these pages, thanks guys!
(http://i.imgur.com/yIdtaHI.jpg)
Bones from last year's 8pts, the smaller ones worked best. I ended up getting 8 heads out of one leg bone...
(http://i.imgur.com/R4wUTJR.jpg)
The very white bones are from a pet store cow bone. I used a belt sander to shape them and then small files to finish shape and hand sanded to 600 grit.
(http://i.imgur.com/Z4s6SXP.jpg)
I experimented with bone FP too. By over shooting the intended weight a little I had extra for shipping the tips even...
(http://i.imgur.com/7XDx01l.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6D2vZge.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/37kmoIL.jpg)
My first pitch glue lines were sloppy but I improved :)
(http://i.imgur.com/pe1mzb6.jpg)
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Welcome to PA, James. Thanks for your contribution. 8)
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Thank you Pat!
Hard to capture with a phone camera but I experimented making right and left bevel points when the bone seemed naturally shaped to encourage it. By using the appropriate matching fetching I figured there could be a penetration gain. At the least no harm in trying...
(http://i.imgur.com/l5o6pcV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1tockKp.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/L4a1wQW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/gqCBaB1.jpg)
I chose to individually notch each head after fitted to the actual hunting shaft it belongs to because my wild rose and redosier dogwood shafts were all different sizes after reduction in spine and weight. By doing this it took more time but allowed me to notch the head exactly to the sides of the shaft which in turn helped the sinew wrapping lay as flat as possible creating as little resistance to penetration as it could on an animal.
I also found it helpful being able to file down/shape the base of the notches to reduce any unwanted width. Here in N.Y. I need 1" but wanted no extra to slow me down on the way into a chest cavity.
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Carp plate points. I think I may be on to something.
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I got one of them carp bone points stuck on the end of a feathered stick. 8)
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Wildman do you have any photos showing the bone removed from the fish? This is very interesting! Well done sir...
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I will try to get a mini build along. There is really not much to it , these bones scream to be made into a point. They are very thick and dense towards the serious end , and thin towards the base naturally. Two cuts and some sanding/grinding make a point. I made my first one for the arrow trade that Pat B got. A friend who shoots fish and also primitive with me loves them. We have been talking about trying them for awhile now.
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I am sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but, some of the heads ive noticed have a slight conical slot for the shaft to fit into, do you guys and gals use a half round file or some other tool to do that with?
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Yes, and various other tools can be used also. I use the rounded part on my belt sander.
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Has anyone killed a deer with a bone point? I hope to make some and hunt with them next season because I can't get the hang of knapping and bone points look great!
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Hello all,
I'm new to the forum, but have been consulting it for years. Here are some pics from my first all-natural arrows, including bone broadheads. I used cow bone from the pet store, and modern tools (the smell of the bone being worked with my dremel tool was terrible!). These arrowheads passed straight through a thick couch cushion and into the rotten-log back stop many times without damage, from about 25 yards. I suspect they'd do the trick on a deer.
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Those look nice and sturdy. Good job.
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I may have missed it, but what did the bone come from?
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The bones are from cow, deer, and elk leg bones mostly. You can buy cow leg bones from stores that sell them as dog chews.
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Man, not sure how I missed this thread. I'll definitely be spending some time looking at this one.
Patrick
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The bones are from cow, deer, and elk leg bones mostly. You can buy cow leg bones from stores that sell them as dog chews.
That's good, I have plenty of leg bones in my field :p
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Anybody ever get them close to razor sharp I have some made and they have great points but I'm trying to get the blade part wicked sharp.
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I got mine sharp enough shave arm hair. I used a lansky sharpener. It holds the blade and the stone at fixed angles. I wanna say 15 degrees for razors. Make sure you progress all the way past a fine grit stone. I polished mine with buffing compound for the last step.
Mother of pearl is much harder and denser. It will hold an edge longer than bone. I prefer it over bone in every aspect except the allergy I have to shell dust. :(
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Well I made my first bone point for the arrow trade. It was made from a skull plate of a whitetail, right where the antler grows out of their head.
I did have trouble getting it sharp and opted to leave well enough alone since it sunk into my modern block style target just about as far as my trade points do. I plan on making more but I will be working on the angle of the point to see if I can get it sharper next time.
Patrick
(http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w668/lebhuntfish1/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/20160904_144848_zpsob2vyyo5.jpg) (http://s1335.photobucket.com/user/lebhuntfish1/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/20160904_144848_zpsob2vyyo5.jpg.html)
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These are some really cool bone broadheads. Looks like I'm going to have to save some deer legs and give it a try.
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Just read through this entire thread. I have experimented with bone previously but the points on here have really whet my whistle for it again. I guess I'll be down the pet shop later!! Thanks for the inspiration.
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Just got through the whole thread.... Man, there is some cool stuff in here.
Just another skill to learn, good thing I kept that elk leg bone for my dog to chew on >:D
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wow what a great exhibition of craftsmanship! I love the variety of bone arrow heads presented. It now really inspires me to try myself. Arrow making is so much fun! Glad I finally discovered this thread :D
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This isn't a bone point, but this is the best place I could find to post it. I had read about sinew points 25+ years ago. Grinnell's book on the Cheyenne describes them, but little detail is included. He does say they were made from the neck tendon of a buffalo bull. About 15 years ago we were butchering an 18 month old bull. From it, I finally had a chance to get the right tendon to try this out. This tendon doesn't break into fibers like the back and leg tendons, and cannot be used for thread. In fact, it becomes somewhat brittle when dried. It can be sawed, or carved with a knife. This is one of several sinew points that I have now made. Like a stone point, It can shatter if you hit a rock with it.
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I fooled around with bone points quite a bit, once upon a time. Stone projectile points never made sense to me? At some point in my youth I ran across a book of native stories, I think maybe written by a guy who ended up serving on the montana senate long ago, or maybe it was wyoming? Way back when. Anyway there was a mention of some nation, maybe crow or blackfeet I think, with "bison bone lance heads polished like ivory."
About 25 or 30 years ago I read an archaeology article about bone chards found around a prehistoric firepit. It described ancient people breaking legbones to get at the marrow inside, so I gave it a go. I just picked up some beef stew bones (probably 4 or 5 inches long), parboiled them just enough to gel the marrow inside, then split them with a hatchet. Hand sanded the best chards with 60 grit, & worked my way down to probably 800 grit. Maybe higher? can't remember? They sharpend up QUITE nicely, and I soon learned to haft them BEFORE sanding the final cutting edges. At the end of the experiment I pounded one through a piece of 3/4 inch plywood with a steel hammer (back when 3/4 meant 3/4). Yanked it out the other side with a pair of locking pliers. Point was totally unscathed and perfectly ready to tip THE finest arrow ever built by man.
I assume deer or elk bone would be a lot tougher, but probably depends on nutrition? In any case, can't go wrong with bone IMO.
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I just found a historical bone point. Might be old news around here but it's the only one I've ever seen, and I have researched the topic some over the years. Interesting article as well.
My take away is that, contrary to what modern historians preach, neither the invention of firearms, nor the invention of the rifle, were able to render the arrow obsolete. On the contrary, until like 1866, it took a lot of muzzle loaders, not to mention a lot of fortification, just to withstand an onslaught of angry arrows until more muzzle loaders finally showed up. Hopefully...
The arrow remained viable until the mass production of repeating rifles. According to my math, that's only 153 yrs ago. I'm 50yrs old, so, my grandfather's day? maybe my great grandfathers day? three generations ago? four generations? that's less than a NYC nanosecond, in terms of human history...
anyways, linky: https://www.nps.gov/fous/learn/historyculture/arrows-guns-and-buffalo.htm
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A bone arrowhead I ground out on this big flat rock I have. Made from some cow bone
https://imgur.com/a/ye56vHf
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Its fairly large at one inch wide and two and a half inches long but its bone so its fairly light.
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I've bought Buffalo bones for my dog that were very hard and thick. This dog has real bone crusher teeth and occasionally leaves very sharp triangle shaped shards of bone that would require little work to make into great arrow points.
My old Plot/Pit mix bear hound never left any shards behind. I saw him bite a fresh slaughtered cow's spinal column in half and eat the whole thing in one sitting like a kid eating popcorn.
I'll start collecting those shards and see what I can do with them.
I found an interesting rock awhile back that would be perfect for grinding bone.
Its perfectly flat and is made up of thick layers. The surface is peppered with sharp hard crystals that cut hardened steel like nothing I've seen before. I kept it intending to use it to sharpen lawn mower blades.
As for the sinew arrow points I'd read of those many years ago.
Apparently they used these when hunting large body game so if the point hit a rib it woud deform rather than break and slide around the bones to go deeper than you'd expect.
This was "elastic deformation" which means they would return to their previous shape once past the bone rather than "plastic deformation" which would have been permanent bends.