Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: RT on November 26, 2007, 10:02:10 pm
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Hi, Would like to get some views on the pro and cons.......
Does any one of these design on the handle impact on shooting? Spine?..........etc.
Thanks you in advance for your inputs. I have added pics on what i actually mean.
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This is a no shelf example, shoot off the hand.
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I think if your arrow making skills are lacking;you need to cut a shelf on your bows.
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Every bow is inherently accurate. With properly spined arrows even the archer can be accurate. ;)
The bow with the shelf cut in should be less critical of arrow spine than the other but as thin as the other is, it might be closer to center shot than the one with the cut in shelf. The arrow is a more critical part of the equation than the bow. Pat
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pro's of a near center shot arrow shelf.
1.)Its way easier to get arrows to fly good out of a bow with a near center shot shelf. (Less critcal of spine.)
2.)Its more acurite, since the arrow is always in the same spot. (you cant move you hand and change the nock point.)
3.)its easier to keep a arrow nocked and at the ready while on stand hunting.
con's
1.) If not done correctly it can make a weak spot on the bow, where the arrow shelf is. (handle not thick enough to much bend.)
pro's of no arrow shelf.
1.)The only advantage that I can think of to not having a shelf that would be its easier to make, and would actualy be a nesesity for a bend through the handle or D bow.
Con's- see list of pro's for a cut shelf......
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With a cut-in shelf you can make it centershot and shoot carbons and other manufactured high spine shafts. I have built this style mostly for glass bow/target archers, but in the purist sense of this craft, I think its a bit of a compromise. I have only one bow with a small shelf, but all my other personal bows I shoot off the hand for the simple reason that its not hard to place your hand in the same spot each time, and I like how the lines of the bow handle isn't interrupted by the shelf..
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Thanks for all the inputs, I believe I have a better understanding now, Cheers! RT ;D
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I do about 50/50 between shoot off the hand and cut in shelves. Some feel a cut in shelf on a primitive bows is an abomination! I tend to prefer them for target and hunting. Steve
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I'm in the camp that cringes when I see a cut-in rest. I also think it's more more work to create and neccesitates added thickness at the arrow pass, which neccesitates a longer dip (longer bow) than without. And if you get into making heavy hunting weight bows, you need to be very careful that you don't create a weak spot in constructing such.
I really like bulbous grips, which reduce to about 3/4" wide at the arrow pass, so the arrow is only 3/8" from center. To maintain a consistent arrow placement, I do like to glue on a leather shelf, built up from 3 layers of latigo. Such a shelf is quick and easy to make with a hobby knife, grit 80 sandpaper, and Barge cement.
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...and Mickey's floppy rest is even better. I always used a shoe leather rest/locator but now prefer the floppy rest...on a bulbous handle. ;D Pat
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I've only made one bow with a cut in shelf, and am currently working on another. I don't think it's that much more trouble to make one really. I would leave the handle full width equalling the limb width until after tillering is complete. You then know for sure which is the top limb of the bow and how the bowstring runs along the handle. It's simple to then leave more wood opposite the shelf to ensure handle strength. :)
I can't really think of any con's other then cosmetic for those that feel it's outside the primitive circle.
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I agree with Greg. It is easy to cut a shelf and has no drawbacks except some thinking it isn't "primitive". And since most guys aren't making their bows with stone tools why get so worked up over having a shelf. I like shelves personally. Justin
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I prefer a center shot bow with shelf but do not care for a cut in shelf such as you would see on a glass bow.
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Marc, do you happen to have a pic of the kind of shelf you describe in your previous post? I'd like to see how you do it.
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Not a pro or a con but does anyone know if there is any evidence of a primitive bow with a carved out shelf? IMHO.....its one of the thinbks that distinguishes a bow between a "modern self bow" and a true primitive weapon. I strive at primite bows therefore...no shelf.
Like I said, not a pro or con in performance but should be a consideration when making a bow that you believe to be primitive.
I seem to remeber reading that there was one primitve example of a carved in shelf? Anyone know?
SJM
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Hi,
Shelf... no shelf. I think they both have their place, and I use both. I think a selfbow just somehow looks un-natural with a cut in shelf. A laminate and backed bow, however, looks great with a shelf. It is much easier to get your arrows to fly well with a shelf, and the bow is much more forgiving of various spined arrows. I think it's personal, and both are perfectly fine.
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This actually bring me to the next question. for a all wood boo bow say 56NTN, in order to cut a shelf, that handle area need to be NON bending...........correct ?, having said that, if I was to built up a handle and including the fae out area, I think very conservatively i can get away with 9 " fade tip to fade tip.
With the above in mind , it mean i actually have 23.5"(56/2 =28, minus 4.5) of working limbs pulling it up to my draw of 24"
Will this be too much stress for a boo/wood bow?
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It should be fine RT. Usually on a bendy handled "D" bow you can have the bow be twice the drawlength or less in length so you are within 1/2" of that..I have the same ratio on a favorite of mine, a hard r/d thoroughly abused for the purpose of "science" ;)..and its still alive.
Rich
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I am really learning a lot on this PA site, feels great to have found this site and communicate with so many helpful people. Thanks!
RT ;D
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Marc, do you happen to have a pic of the kind of shelf you describe in your previous post? I'd like to see how you do it.
I do Gordon on my site but I guess it's down right now. I will post some pics when it's back up
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I would think that the center shot shelf would eliminate the arrow spine issue and open up a plethera of shafting options. I agree that the shelf on a self bow makes it less "primitive " looking but I think Justin nailed it when he said that unless we are making them with stone tools, then it doesn't really qualify as primitive, does it? When we think of over all versatility and use of available resources having more shafting options ie..spining not an issue, may tend to lean towards a center shot shelf set up. Thats just a humble observation.
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I think that the fact of cutting in a shelf is what offends(?) most folks when it comes to wood bows. It is reminiscent of modern FG bows. An added on shelf is a familiar site with the wood bows of the 30's, 40's and 50's so it seems more acceptable. When I started building wood bows I cut in a shelf and used a deep handle. Since Dean Torges came out with "Hunting the Osage Bow" I have been using a bulbous handle(and lately a Ferret's floppy rest). This allows for more homogeneous transition between handle and limbs and allows for more working limb close to the handle.
It really doesn't matter to me what someone else uses as far as handles. As long as they are having fun, that's all that matters. I personally like the idea of getting as far away from modern design and making bows as simple as possible and still be effective. Pat
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Pat, I've seen quite a few old wooden production bows with a cut in shelf...I don't think this is as new a Idea as most people think. I know I remember reading a article some where about a ancient bow found with a arrow shelf cut in it.....
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Cut in shelf is just plain hugly :)
...I get even my glass bows without it.