Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Cave Men only "Oooga Booga" => Topic started by: rockrush69 on September 22, 2013, 11:57:35 am

Title: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: rockrush69 on September 22, 2013, 11:57:35 am
http://ourtipilife.wordpress.com/
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: CherokeeKC on September 22, 2013, 07:56:34 pm
HAHAHA It says "Tickets are $3 or 3 for $10."  3 times 3 equals $9.  Why would anyone pay a dollar more to get three tickets.  Usually you save money by buying more.  These people must not be the brightest crayons in the box.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Josh B on September 22, 2013, 10:05:02 pm
HAHAHA It says "Tickets are $3 or 3 for $10."  3 times 3 equals $9.  Why would anyone pay a dollar more to get three tickets.  Usually you save money by buying more.  These people must not be the brightest crayons in the box.

Well Cherokee...I'll agree with you that its not a very bright thing to do.  But not quite for the reason your thinkin.  You see they know full well what that says and how it adds up.  They are counting on everybody else being too stupid to notice.  When your in a tight spot and really need peoples generosity, insulting those very same people's intelligence is sure to back fire.  So yep, not the brightest thing to do.  I wonder what the ratio is for people who don't notice and give the extra $ to those who do notice and don't buy any tickets.  I'm guessing it's not in these folks favor.   Josh
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: criveraville on October 25, 2013, 12:16:55 am
Nice  ;).. Josh what's the gist of the article??

Cipriano
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: CherokeeKC on November 15, 2013, 05:05:16 pm
Yeh I hear ya Gun Doc.  I thought it was hilarious. 
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Dalton Knapper on November 15, 2013, 06:35:42 pm
I couldn't make much from the blog part, but the "home" and "vision" tabs more or less told me what this all referenced.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Dharma on November 19, 2013, 02:51:39 am
I can somewhat dig what they're saying, but I've seen this before. This is another attempt at the hippie commune which works well in theory, but not well when it comes to the fact that the structures they're living in were the traditional dwellings of people who were not vegetarians, but nomadic hunters. Who, by the way, developed those dwellings so they could carry them with them while they followed the herds of buffalo that were their almost exclusive food source. The tipis themselves were not canvas, but buffalo hide. Those folks were not farmers. They didn't "own" the land per se, but they would defend their hunting grounds as Custer discovered much to his chagrin. They were not pacifists, either. They had a very developed warrior society. If you're going to emulate a society, you have to take all of it into account. One problem was, the society in question had given up the idea farming a long time prior to be nomadic hunters and they weren't thrilled with the idea of being forced to return to it.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: SLIMBOB on November 30, 2013, 05:07:16 pm
Well said Dharma.  I would add that it appears to me the author considers "Capitalism" as the enemy of his pursuits.  I should think that you will find very few Tipi Villages in China, the Middle East or anywhere near the former USSR.  In the more agrarian societies around the planet people may live this way, but more as a result of the abject poverty that necessitates it, making a subsistent existence the best one can hope for.  I see our liberty here as the only protection that allows us the freedom to live this way as a matter of choice. 
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: criveraville on December 01, 2013, 01:18:55 am
I'm still lost.. What's the article about?

Cipriano
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: JW_Halverson on December 01, 2013, 03:29:27 pm
I'm still lost.. What's the article about?

Cipriano

Mostly about how they dropped out, found land to squat on, and now the land is for sale and they can't afford to buy it without help.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Dharma on December 03, 2013, 01:50:16 am
Well, out on the Rez here, there are still people who live in hogans. They usually don't speak much English, either. They're very traditional. But usually, you see a hogan in the back of a trailer house or a frame house. They only use the hogan for ceremonies. Tipis are used here for NAC ceremonies sometimes. But there's not a lot of people who want to live in a hogan 24/7 if they don't have to.

Back to these folks, it's a romantic idea. But they don't understand the culture that went along with the dwelling. As I said, they weren't pacifists. You were expected to be a warrior and a hunter, period. They weren't vegetarians because farming was alien to them. If they grew anything at all, it was tobacco. But they mostly traded for that anyway from tribes that did farm. And the tribes that did farm, like my mother's people, had the resources to field what was basically a standing army. People like this don't seem to remember things like tomahawks---close quarters weapons. Those weren't for mashing turnips. And if you were on the land of another tribe, well, you might just be killed out of hand. If you were lucky. Everyone thinks tribes had no ownership of land. In theory, yes. But each tribe had lands they defended and considered their own. They just didn't think a tribe could sell land that was theirs to someone outside the tribe. There's a lot of romantic ideas attached to Native culture prior to European contact and a lot gets lost in the translation. But the fact is, you couldn't have just walked across the country unless you were a trader. Sooner or later, some tribe would have seen you and said, "Who's this dude that thinks he can walk across here?" Tribes weren't all sitting around singing songs together and having respectful discussions to settle differences. Just sayin'...
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Bryce on December 07, 2013, 04:02:39 am
Well put dharma
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Wylden Freeborne on December 08, 2013, 11:28:07 pm
WOW! Way to go guys. I lived in Tipi Village, the village in question, and we are NOT vegetarians, squatters or communists. We hunt, we make bows, we all work very hard to make what little money we actually need to raise our families and you all are characterizing us as some idealistic bullshit group. It is sad. Tipi village has existed for 7 years and Tipi Valley, from which it was based, has existed as a NON-OWNED land based collective for over 25 years. So, you all really know very little, but could easily ask myself or any others that have actually been there. I am really not too impressed with the comments from the folks on this thread. I expected to see understanding and intelligent remarks, not banter based on ignorance and vitriol.

The three for ten dollar thing was a joke, by the way. It was meant to be humorous.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Wylden Freeborne on December 09, 2013, 12:45:41 am
Also, Dharma, the village has no interest in emulating any past culture. While I have great reverence for indigenous cultures everywhere, and much for the various nomadic tribes and band societies of Turtle Island, the tipi itself is not solely an American Indian dwelling. Conical tents exist to this day in cultures all over the world, that do NOT live in abject poverty but have rich cultural rooting, such as the Sami peoples. Tipi Village is not a re-enactment village, but an opportunity to reconnect with living on the ground around fire. I am really saddened by these posts. After being on PA for over a year, I have always found the posts to be informative, and this is just plain old hurtful garbage.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Dharma on December 09, 2013, 02:17:10 am
Hey, look man, I said I agree with some of what you're saying. But I can also read your blog and what you say there. Haven't you judged society yourself, labelling it "materialistic" which is why you seek to distance yourself from it? You might not have tractors on your area, but you are alive because of them. Your parents bought food from the grocery store, I would imagine. I agree with some of what you say, but I also know that you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I applaud your experiment and if it works for you, that's great. But you are not the only one with the talking stick here and everyone else has as much right to state their opinions as you do.

As a person from one of those indigenous cultures, I'm also just pointing out that the first thing we wanted when the Europeans arrived was their technology, i.e. guns, metal tools, etc. It didn't work out so well for us, but hey, that's what happens.

Yes, the modern world has given us horrors. But it's also given us a lot of great things, too. Or can I assume if you get sick and need modern medicine you won't seek it? You don't truly exist outside the modern world as much as you would like to. You have modern medicine to fall back on, as well as assistance that wasn't available to the cultures those tipis originated in. You're in what's called the United States now because indigenous cultures lost that war.

I'm not saying you're communists, but much of what you say is in fact classical communism. Not Soviet type communism, but communism as proposed by others as a philosophy and an economic system. There's nothing wrong with that except the fact it negates human nature. Humans are, by nature, driven by acquisition. That was the whole basis of tribal warfare---we want what they've got. Or we want prestige or honor. Humanity is driven by this and are you not so as well? Are you not driven by the acquisition of this lifestyle and vision? This is what you want and, if you did not get it, would you be happy with less? Then also see that others might be just as happy living their lives as they see fit without it labelled as materialism. If everyone wanted to live in a tipi, every piece of the pristine land you love would be dotted with tipis and all the groundwater contaminated by a myriad of pit latrines. All the game hunted out. All the trees cut down for firewood. Just saying your vision works for you, but it isn't a viable solution for the planet.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Wylden Freeborne on December 09, 2013, 03:17:44 am
Folk are certainly welcome to opinions, and I place great stock in an informed one. However, only three people eon this forum have been to Tipi Village, and none of them were commenting on it in this thread until I did. Now, on the blog. It is not my blog and, like all other issues with our village, it is an autonomous venture by one family that is not my family. I do not agree with everything that is stated in those writings, nor do I have to, as each person that holds the stick can certainly say what they will, but it will bring about effect when we do speak. I am coming off as angry in these replies, which I am a little, but mostly just hurt, I had NOTHING to do with posting the threads about tipi village that are being replied to with such negativity, and I log on to see this entire trash talking thread about my home village. Now, I personally do not talk badly about anybody's way of life on this forum, no matter how absolutely ridiculous I may find it. Your life is your choice. So, unless every other person on this thread is inviting a complete and utter roast of your life-way, I suggest we keep it bows and primitive skills and leave the trash talking about people's life-ways for another site. Just a suggestion.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: SLIMBOB on December 09, 2013, 09:24:01 am
Wylden.  I can only speak to my intent in the above comments and not others.  I don't know you except through your posts.  I find what you are doing interesting to say the least and I for one have no problem with the lifestyle you've chosen.  Follow your own path as you see fit.  Some will see your choice as liberating, others will see it as crazy.  This makes your choices no different than anybody else's "craziness".  Open yourself up to public scrutiny and opinions will run the gambit, so what.  My comment was in response the author of the blog's negativity about my way of life.  Dissing the values that I hold dear, and wishing to replace those values, my values, with ones of his own choosing.  You are free to do as you wish as am I, because we live within a system that allows us that freedom and I will jealously guard that system which allows you and your family to live in the manner you've chosen.  I enjoy your posts.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: PEARL DRUMS/PEARLY/PD/DRUMS on December 09, 2013, 10:57:52 am
That's where I am. Live your way and Ill live mine, but don't tell me mine is wrong. And don't come asking for my money when your moneyless world stops working, that would include health care costs that will arise. Its your choice, go with it and have fun.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Dharma on December 09, 2013, 11:01:25 am
Wylden,

  I grew up in a household where an alternative lifestyle was being practiced, so I am pretty aware of living in non-Western Civilization environments. While it gave me a much valued outlook on many things, it was far from perfect and certainly wasn't a utopia. There's a lot of "wild cards" out there my parents didn't think about and so you yourself might wish to practice deep looking for yourself. You can certainly roast what you perceive to be my beliefs, but I am pretty sure you'll be incorrect in your assumptions.

   Just to throw this out there, I served in the 101st Airborne and defended your freedom to do what you're doing. I paid a pretty heavy price for it and continue to pay decades later. I get to pay for it for the rest of my life. But there's a flip side to that coin. I paid for my own freedom and that includes the right to speak my mind. I paid the full karmic price. That's not to say a vet is entitled to "more" freedoms or so forth, because we are all equal. I'm just saying your freedom to do what you do came at a heavy price to those of us who defended it. Just be aware the society the blog tends to lampoon was defended at great cost to people who stepped forward to do so.

   I applaud your tipi village, just to be clear. I think you have some great ideas. I myself am tied to the land by tribal beliefs regarding certain Spirits. It isn't something I question, being traditional. I hold water sacred, for example, and cannot do certain things regarding natural sites or resources. Having said that, there's another flip side to that coin. My people were very warlike and not all of our beliefs were good. We lived off the land before the Europeans came, but we also raided and warred on neighboring tribes. Our bows were not just for hunting, they were weapons of war. So even living off the land has its problems sooner or later.

  Just be aware that our society has serious problems, yes. But that doesn't absolve the society you're trying to create of problems that can manifest.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Weylin on December 09, 2013, 09:56:26 pm
I'd like to throw my two-cents in here. I don't have a magic bullet comment that resolves all of these different world views but I'll try to share some of my half-baked thoughts.

First off, I've spent a week staying in Wylden's tipi and being a part of his community there. It is a beautiful place with wholesome, hard working and good-hearted people trying to make a life for themselves and for their children.

I think there is a misunderstanding about our liberty to make "out of the box choices" in our culture. We pat ourselves on the back for being so free and that if people want to they can choose this way of life if they want. They fact is that people can't really make a choice to live in a primitive, land based fashion in this country. Look at Gill's post on the other thread. It's essentially illegal to live off the grid almost everywhere. Even if you are rich enough to buy yourself a huge piece of property way out in the middle of no-where you are still required to basically live in a house with running water, sewage and electricity. He said you couldn't even choose to forgo AC in Florida! That's definitely not freedom to choose. That's government telling you exactly how to live. In the case of the tipi village, even if they had raised the money to buy the land a rich neighbor hired a lawyer who basically had the county laws rewritten to specifically outlaw living in a tipi. That is not a free society.

our modern American culture lives in a paradigm that has very specific views on how land a resources are used, how people are controlled, what constitutes "good work ethic", how we get our food, etc, etc. This paradigm is shared by almost all modern, civilized countries in a broad sense. Some of the details are different, but at the heart they all operate on basically the same premises. For the sake of this discussion I think it's pretty fair to lump them all together. And by that I mean that our modern, global, industrial culture cannot exist alongside land-based living. In every corner of the world civilized culture has relentlessly dismantled land-based cultures. It cannot abide having people nearby that interact with the land in a totally different way. Civilization will always seek to destroy and/or subvert land based people.

If everyone wanted to live in a tipi, every piece of the pristine land you love would be dotted with tipis and all the groundwater contaminated by a myriad of pit latrines. All the game hunted out. All the trees cut down for firewood. Just saying your vision works for you, but it isn't a viable solution for the planet.
I'm pretty sure no one's saying that everybody should do anything. The cold hard truth is that 7 billion people can't really do anything to live sustainably. In my opinion it seems abundantly clear that we can't keep doing what we're doing and have a great future. The train may feel like it's  chuggin' along but that doesn't mean that there's not a cliff ahead. I don't think it's fair to say that just becuase something's not a viable solution for the entire plaent than it has no value. If that was the argument then nothing would pass the test, least of all our opulent lifestyle in the U.S.

Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Bryce on December 09, 2013, 11:30:09 pm
Well said weylin
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Wylden Freeborne on December 10, 2013, 12:39:23 am
For clarity, I removed my last post because I received word that it offended a person the forum. If you had read that post and were offended, I do apologize. I will not be posting on this thread any further. Thank you to Weylin for your eloquent and informed input.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: rockrush69 on February 01, 2015, 12:45:18 pm
Wow, a lot of people really read into this wrong and got offended it's kind of weird I was just trying to help these people out that seemed like they were being kicked off this land when these I don't know 56 maybe 10 families were out in the middle of nowhere not bothering anybody making bows and arrows and sitting around campfires every night and that's the way that they chose to live now all of you guys are bringing up all these laws and talking about how their want to be Indians and all this crazy crap you guys should most of you should be ashamed of yourselfI am NOT going to name any names, however there are a few of you that straight up attacked this thread and it's ridiculous and childish and again you should be ashamed of yourselfI should have never posted this I was only trying to help them I personally was thinking about going out there and staying at the TP village and when I read into it deeper I found out that they were basically being thrown off the land and it kind of pissed me off so I tried to get them some support because I knew several of them were on this website as members but it seems to me from reading all of these posts that a lot of you kind of went off on a rant about how there a hippie commune and they're trying to beg you for money and I don't know I'm friends with a lot of you guys on here too I mean I've showed a lot of my bows and arrows on here I've made a lot of friends off this website I trade a lot of goods over the mail with a lot of the guys on this website I'm friends with several of the authors for the magazine like personal friends but I wish I knew how to delete this whole thread because I would I'm not mad at anybody I'm just kind of disgusted at the whole thing who cares if they want to live out there can raise their families and live by the earth and its EP it doesn't mean they're trying to be Native Americans I think it's really cool that they lived out their fantasy it seems to me like some of you are just straight up haters but whatever I'm sure I'm going to be at act now for saying that so bring it on attack me
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Parnell on February 05, 2015, 01:06:14 pm


If you are sincere about having this discussion removed then I think you can remove it with the "remove" icon.  If that doesn't do it then just notify a moderator.

Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: adb on February 05, 2015, 02:54:42 pm
Yup, the original poster can delete the entire thread I believe.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: mullet on February 06, 2015, 11:06:00 am
Yep!
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: JackCrafty on February 06, 2015, 12:44:41 pm
I dunno, I think this thread is pretty good.  Too bad it's not in 3D.
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: Tree_Ninja on February 07, 2015, 11:47:10 am
Don't worry the way things are going we'll all be living in tipi's and caves again soon. :o

   I am happy for the advances society and science has provided but it has created a culture of complacency and waste. 

 50 years ago in my industry salmon spawning beds where routinely dug up to create logging roads. I'm sure there where 1 or 2 bleeding hearts back then thinking "this is wrong".  Nowadays its a federal offence.

  There are a few mining canaries dying as we speak. But we are too pressured by modern beliefs to heed the warnings. Commercialism, materialism, envy, are all so heavily ingrained in our culture, the future historians will think walmart was a place of worship.

   People are moving out of rural areas and moving to hip,vibrant, cities to live the dream.  If you can't go clubbing until 3:00 am and then get some pizza you are in a no-where, backwater town.

  It's all a system of control in the end. They fear those who can go out naked in the woods and come home with dinner. They don't want you to provide for yourself.

Only problem is we are routinely destroying the support system that we can fall back on once the oil runs out and the AC is turned off.  There won't be anything left to hunt.

Also, get your vaccinations.  Please. ;D

   
Title: Re: please read this article . i ask nothing more of you
Post by: mullet on February 07, 2015, 09:53:20 pm
It's a Control thing because you still read the Rule Book.If my family is hungry I don't have one. I can still do what needs to be done now. You could actually still bow hunt in Merry Old England if you had some good camo and wasn't greedy and stupid, :-\ . Your way of life is a choice.