Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Cameroo on January 29, 2014, 07:56:08 pm
-
I'm just at the tillering stage on what will be, if successful, my first 100+ lb bow, and also, potentially my first successful selfbow. I thought getting a little feedback along the way might improve my odds. The stave is 80", and I am going to be shooting for 110 lbs @ 32". It is roughed out with shallow radius on the back edges, and deeper radius on the belly edges. Threw it on the tree and it is just starting to bend a bit.
Measurements as it stands now (taken from center, proceeding outward at 6" intervals):
Width Thickness
center 1.57" 1.41"
+6" 1.49" 1.32"
+12" 1.34" 1.19"
+18" 1.20" 1.10"
+24" 1.09" 1.02"
+30" 0.95" 0.89"
+36" 0.81" 0.80"
+40" 0.71" 0.72"
Does that seem about right?
Now, a question before I proceed. The stave is close to pipe-straight, but has developed a very slight twist since roughing it out about half a year ago, causing the tips to go out of alignment. It also has some very slight humps and dips along it's length. Considering this is an elm stave, I am assuming from reading some of Del's posts, among others, that the stave will certainly benefit from heat treating. I am also assuming that now would be the best time to do this, and I could take out the humps and twist at the same time by clamping the back of the bow to the edge of a 2x4, one limb at a time, as I heat it. I could then take the bit of twist out with another heat session if necessary, and then give it a few days for the moisture content to stabilize again before proceeding with the tillering? Is this a safe assumption? Any other opinions?
I'd take some pics but I don't think they would add anything to what I've described.
-
I don't know anything about elm or the best way to attack it regarding straightening, but I will say good luck, and I look forward to checking in on the thread to see how you go!
-
Awesome Cam!! I can't wait to watch your progress. It'll be 2 firsts... first selfbow and first true warbow. Take her nice and slow. I'd actually be interested in seeing pics, to see how much it changed since you roughed it out in my shop. Those elm staves where pipe straight.
-
Well if you insist :) As I mentioned, there are no serious issues, the only reason I even mentioned straightening is that if I am going to be heat treating anyway, I could kill two birds with one stone.
Side profile - nothing really to worry about. Slight hump at dark knot on side of left limb, a bit of extra reflex in the right limb.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0141s.jpg)
Small knot ran off the side of this limb, but will likely all be removed during tillering
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0144s.jpg)
The clamps on the limbs help show the slight twist. Again, hardly worth mentioning, but you can see that the tips are no longer aligned through the center of the handle...
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0150s.jpg)
And also I had to show off this little jig I made for my heat gun. It just screws onto the camera mount on my tripod. Can be set to any height or angle :) Can't wait for it's trial run
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0151s.jpg)
-
Shoot, I'd say you got enough meat, given that the wood is dense, to make well over 110# @ 32. Although of course sometimes the wood is not so dense, so I would probably stick with those dimensions and watch the weight on the scale. When it is me and I have a slight twist like that, anymore I will just tiller the bow out to about a 4" brace, and correct the twist by removing belly wood on one side on the belly more than the other. I'll get it straightened out, and gradually work it in and bring it to a 6" brace. If it is seriously too twisted to brace, like dangerously twisted, I will try to correct the twist and then go to brace, see if it is twisting, unbrace, remove wood, repeat, etc. Very cool thanks for sharing.
-
Too bad about the string alignment. In hind sight, I guess maybe we should have left a bit more meat on that stave so you could correct for drying warpage.
-
Doesn't Dell the cat have a good steam bending set up for alignment problems like this? Or was that someone else? I got an osage stave I need to fix that has real bad alignment problems. I haven't roughed it out yet, but it is gonna need some tough lovin. Cool heat gun set up!
-
Ya, I had just assumed that with the moisture content being as low as it was when I roughed it out, that it wouldn't warp. Oh well, it's nothing serious. I'll be putting some heat to it tonight, will update once done. The plan is to heat treat both limbs, and then make alignment corrections after 8)
-
Don't round the belly any more! (especially with Elm etc)
I pretty much leave 'em as rectangular cross section until I hit brace. Then I take the corners off a bit.
But with heavy weight bows I go for a flatter belly anyway*. A rounded belly may look pretty, but is (IMO) more of a Victorian thing.
Most of the Mary Rose bows are more circular or 'inflated square' in cross section, certainly not a high arched D.
I'd say it's a great time to heat treat, maybe even clamp it up with an inch block under the grip to add a hint off reflex, to allow for a little set as she progresses?
Del
* With My Elm warbow I had the back trapped a bit so the overall cross section was a trapezium with rounded corners. My only other Elm bow (D section) Chrysalled badly.
BTW, I called my 100# Elm Warbow "Dennis"
.
..
As in "Dennis Elmbow" 'Cos it agravates my Tennis Elbow ::)
-
Too bad about the string alignment. In hind sight, I guess maybe we should have left a bit more meat on that stave so you could correct for drying warpage.
If you could bottle that hindsight and sell it, I'd take a couple :laugh:
I wouldn't worry about that tiny bit of twist, I'd just concentrate on the heat treatment and pulling the limbs tips into alignment.
Don't narrow the very tips until she's almost full draw and reay for the horn nocks.
Del
(BTW I'm just finishing a 84" ntn Yew 100# on my blog)
-
Ya, I had just assumed that with the moisture content being as low as it was when I roughed it out, that it wouldn't warp. Oh well, it's nothing serious. I'll be putting some heat to it tonight, will update once done. The plan is to heat treat both limbs, and then make alignment corrections after 8)
Heat treating and correcting at the same time, saves time and dries out the wood less.
I try to spend more time jigging up the wood and less waving heatguns about (well it's held in a jig, but you know what I mean).
A couple of slats of offcut timber clamped to the sides of the stave will help keep the heat on the belly and also direct it along the stave, it gives a better heat spread and speeds it up a tad. Mind it's a pain trying to move hot thin slats along with the heat gun every four or five minutes >:D
Del
PS. Sorry if I'm hogging the thread and telling you stuff you already know or didn't ask for.... :-[
-
I'm making a 120# @ 30 elm longbow at the moment. I'm interested to see how your one comes out.
-
As in "Dennis Elmbow" 'Cos it agravates my Tennis Elbow ::)
??? LOL ;D
-
You're a riot, Dell!
Aren't you on the coast, and Adam in Sask.? Wood warps when it gains moisture as well. I'm sure you already know this but just thought I'd throw it out for the benefit of all. I'll be following this one . Looking forward to the results, as well as all of the expert advise and knowledge !
This site is a treasury of information!
-
Del, I was actually hoping you might hog this thread, so there's no need to apologize!
I will heed your advice for heat treating and try to bring the tips inline at the same time. Luckily life got in the way, and I didn't get around to it last night (did I mention this could be a very slow moving build-along? ;)). And thanks for the heads-up on the flatter belly profile. I wonder if maybe I should settle on a lower draw weight now that the corners are shaved off that much? I'd rather have a functional bow when I'm done than achieve some arbitrary draw weight. I guess I'll just keep a close eye out for set as I go, the wood will let me know what it is comfortable with. I'll have to do some figuring to get an idea what the mass of this bow should ideally be as well.
Lostarrow - I'm fortunate to have Adam within 10 minutes of my home in Saskatoon, Sask. He never hesitates to dish out advice or help a guy in need of wood :)
Mike, how long is your bow? Feel free to post some pics and share info as you proceed ;)
-
If only Joe Gibbs was a member here! Nobody can build white wood warbows like that guy.
Also, it's a shame you're not a member of the EWBS - there's an entire forum section dedicated to white wood warbows. There's an excellent build-a-long by Alan Blackham in which he makes a 110lb white elm full compass bow, and a lot of beautifully made elm bows scattered across the forum. Not much help here I'm afraid, but I can tell you the dimensions of another guys white elm 110lb bow - 35mm wide and 28mm thick in the handle area, tillered full compass of course. Don't know if that's any help?
Couple of things I picked up from a quick browse just now - keep the wood super dry, toast the belly during tillering and tiller slowly. None of that is from me personally (as I said I am clueless about elm!) but they're various nuggets of info from Joe. Best of luck dude!
-
Oh, BTW..
Don't switch off the hot air gun and leave it nose down in your clamp. It can melt the innards, they are designed to cool down nose up.
My fancy temperature controlled one died that way :-[ but I'd got enough temperature daya before it went...
Del
-
Will, thanks for the hints. I'll convert those measurements and see how they compare with my finished product. And thanks for the tip with the heat gun Del.
I decided to start the heat treating with the bow clamped to the side of a 2x4 and induce a little reflex while I'm at it with a chunk of wood clamped under the handle area. Del, as much as I love your idea of correcting the tip alignment at the same time, I just could not bring myself to mounting the bow in the jig I built to do that. The logistics just didn't seem like it would work out for me. With the wider caul that would be required, I was too worried about scorching the back, which I have done in the past. So I came to the conclusion I would correct the alignment with heat applied to a small section of limb after the heat treatment is done. I understand your logic for avoiding reheating, but I have also read some other notable bowyers say that that is not an issue. My inexperience doesn't allow me to form my own opinion on the matter :)
Here's a shot of how it's working out so far. I've got the gun running at 800 degrees F (will go all the way up to 1200 but I don't want to push my luck). I'm keeping the gun 4" from the belly at all times, blowing for 6-8 minutes, and then advancing about 3 or 4 inches up the limb. The jig is working out great, it allows me very precise and easy adjustments for the gun position. The wood is actually getting a little darker than it appears in this picture. I'll post some close-ups once it's done. At this rate it's going to be an all day event, but I'd rather let the heat soak in slowly than end up just scorching the surface.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0155s.jpg)
-
Looking good Cam.. My old drywall shoulders hurt thinking about pulling it... It'll be sweet when she's done..
Thanks Leroy
-
Just a quick update. Over the last couple days I was able to finish the heat treating, and then bring the tips into alignment using a different form, shown below. I forgot to take pics, but I had some aluminum foil taped to the sides to block the heat from reaching the back of the bow. Seemed to work ok. The second pic shows the bit of reflex that was added during the heat treatment. Overall I was happy, the tips track straight through the handle again. I'll set the stave aside now for a few days to let the moisture content equalize again. Hopefully I didn't dry it out too much.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0188.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0197.jpg)
-
Hey, this is lookin good. But what do I know? I have been wantin to destroy some elm someday n the near future. Would a 3" sapling elm work for a longbow ok? Thanks, Marco
-
Hey, that's lookin' good, nice amount of reflex. Hopefully when she's done she'll be ramrod straight.
Del
-
My stave is 80.5 inch long.
I'll be getting her bending well today.
Yours looks good so far. Maybe next time try inducing your reflex like an elliptical tiller. Eg. Non at the handle and increasing out towards the tips.
-
My stave is 80.5 inch long.
I'll be getting her bending well today.
Yours looks good so far. Maybe next time try inducing your reflex like an elliptical tiller. Eg. Non at the handle and increasing out towards the tips.
Shoot, I got an elm stave too. :) No, but I probably won't touch it anytime soon, mine is red elm and is from a board a guy gave me. It is all twisted too... >:( Plus the grain ain't too great.... >:( >:( >:( Er, on second though maybe I don't have one too. :)
-
Not much to see, but thought I'd post a quick update while the coffee brews. It's been almost a week since heat treating and I just started tillering this morning. Pretty much ready for low brace, pulling 110 with the long string in this picture. The tiller obviously needs work. I think I'll take a little more off within roughly 1 foot each side of the center and see how that looks. I also want to round the corners off on the shelf on the tiller tree so the bow can do what it wants. Will update later today.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0231s.jpg)
-
Very nice. Looks good and even I think. Should be a screamer!
-
I feel quite foolish posting this, but I figure if someone else can learn from my poor example, why not?
Lesson learned? Don't use cheap nylon cord for a stringer on a 110 lb bow. I had my tiller string halfway in the groove for the bow's first brace, when the stringer snapped, causing the tiller string to pull a splinter off along the back. Lucky for me it wasn't fatal. Time to make an appropriate stringer I guess... ::)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0233s.jpg)
-
Jeepers, that gave me a shiver of a painful memory... Onwards! Try 550 Paracord. Works a charm.
-
Close call!
-
You sure that is White Elm? Looks more like Red to me. All the White Elm I ever cut had mostly sapwood.
I've made a few warbows out of Elm and if your Elm is good quality then it will tolerate a D section. I also keet the length to around 75" for a 32" draw
This is one I made for a friend of Jaroslav several years ago. If I remember right it was around 75" long , maybe a bit more, and pulled 125# @ 32", my scale is a bit off so it might have been more like 135#
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Warbows/125lb%20Elm%20Warbow/BracedElmWarbow.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Marc-St-Louis/Warbows/125lb%20Elm%20Warbow/32.jpg)
-
That's a nice one Mark. Not sure if it's just the picture, but yours looks wider and thinner than mine.
I'm not positive about the wood. I got it as part of a trade. Funny you mention red and white elm, because I got one of each in the trade. I'm pretty sure this big one was the white elm though... at least I think that's what I was told. By the time I am done tillering this one, I think it will be over 50% sapwood. I chased the two outer rings off before starting too, so it would have been even thicker if those rings hadn't been violated.
I think I'm calling it quits for the night. I rounded off the top of my tiller shelf, made a heavier stringer, and did several tillering sessions. It sure is nerve-racking bracing a heavy bow.
Snapped this picture after the last session on the tiller tree. I can see now that the left limb needs some work - it's bending a bit too much shortly out the handle, and not enough in the outer 2/3rds. The right limb looks like it's bending nicely, but needs a bit of even wood removal because it is a bit stiffer than the left.
Opinions? (By the way, this is at about a 4" brace, and it is pulling 110 lbs @ around 21")
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0235.jpg)
-
Looks really nice, apart from that potential hinge (which you've mentioned!)
How wide are the tips at the moment? Might be time to narrow them if you haven't already?
-
I agree about what you said about the left limb, I would scrape just the outer portion of the left limb. Looking good!
-
That's looking very good, Cam. You have it bending nicely in the middle, which is important early on. What are you planning to do for tip overlays?
I'm not 100% sure on the type of elm... whether it's red or white. I was told it's white elm by the wood supplier, but that doesn't mean much. That being said, I don't think it matters much.
-
Ya, most of the tillering has been in the middle of the bow so far, I had it pretty thick after roughing out the thickness taper. The tips are still full width Will. I have lots of wood to remove yet, so that spot that is bending too much will be fine once the rest of the limbs catch up.
Adam, I have some cow horn that I found out on the farm, but I haven't cut into them yet so I don't know for certain if they will work. That's what I was hoping to use though. If that doesn't pan out I might use antler, or just a horn overlay instead of full horn nocks.
After a good night's sleep, looking back on yesterdays events, I'm so glad that my little stringer mishap didn't put an end to this project. Onward!
-
I feel quite foolish posting this, but I figure if someone else can learn from my poor example, why not?
Lesson learned? Don't use cheap nylon cord for a stringer on a 110 lb bow. I had my tiller string halfway in the groove for the bow's first brace, when the stringer snapped, causing the tiller string to pull a splinter off along the back. Lucky for me it wasn't fatal. Time to make an appropriate stringer I guess... ::)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0233s.jpg)
The lesson is to glue on a temporary tip overlays for the early stages of tillering.
I learned this trick with Yew bows where the Yew sap wood is so soft.
It also means you have plenty of wood for when you want to put on horn nocks.
Del
-
Good idea Del. Do you use CA glue to attach them? I'd sure hate to have a glue joint fail under such high tension.
Didn't make as much progress today as I had hoped, but here's a little update. It is now pulling 110 @ 24, 5.5" brace. I'm a little concerned about the tip alignment again. Most of the reflex I heated in seems to have pulled out, and some of the alignment correction seems to have reverted back as well. The string is barely tracking across the handle now. I started reducing the width of the tips today, removing wood from only the side that the string is leaning towards, in the hopes of bringing it back toward center. That helped a bit but not much.
The limbs are pretty even now, but the tiller is quite elliptical yet. Got to get those tips coming around more now.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0238-1.jpg)
-
When you have really elastic wood it keeps some of the reflex even after you have finished tillering the bow.
A trick I use sometimes to correct string alignment, you need a solid vise and a T stick for this, is to brace the bow and set it up on the T stick at a few inches of draw. Then firmly clamp the bow in the vise and pry the offending tips sideways in whichever direction it needs to go.. Stressing the limbs with the T stick and then prying the tips over seems to set the wood. Of course you want to be extra careful when doing this
-
Del wrap those tempory nocks with serving thread or similar. Use the same knot to finish the whipping as you would for a string serving and then soak with superglue. They will not move then! This is how I do all my nocks for tillering as I like to have plenty of wood to play with when it comes to doing the actual nocks.
-
Del wrap those tempory nocks with serving thread or similar. Use the same knot to finish the whipping as you would for a string serving and then soak with superglue. They will not move then! This is how I do all my nocks for tillering as I like to have plenty of wood to play with when it comes to doing the actual nocks.
I've never had one shift, just with superglue. Mind I've only used 'em up to 130# ;)
@ Cameroo.
Using high viscosity CA and a good rubber strapping while it cures. Mind I leave the tips fairly wide early on, so there is a good big glue area.
Del
-
Better safe than sorry was what I was meaning. Also if you wrap them you don't need to mess about getting a perfect glueline for overlays.
-
Looking good!
Quick couple of questions:
What program are you using to overlay the elipse on the picture?
If you changed the elipse to a large diameter circle , would it not give you a totally different outlook on the bow?I'm just wondering if you are doing yourself an injustice by skewing your perspective with the program. I can see how it can be a great tool for symmetry though.
-
There are lots of software options to do that sort of thing, but I find Photoshop to be the easiest for me. Not sure if you are familiar with it, but I just use the shape tool to draw a rough ellipse, and then use the Transform command (CTRL + T) to stretch it and move it around to match the bow. It only takes a few seconds to do.
I also bought a copy of Adobe Lightroom, since I have recently become a DSLR photography enthusiast. I just learned the other day that I can shoot video with my camera while exercising the bow, import it into Lightroom, and then export any single frame from the video as a picture that I can later edit (there is probably free software out there that will do the same thing). Needless to say, this comes in handy when trying to capture a full draw picture, as I don't have to hold the bow while I wait for the camera to do it's thing. Watching the video back on repeat helps me judge the tiller as well, since I can really focus on the bow, instead of worrying about the draw length and weight that I am pulling the rope to. When I make bows, I have all the time in the world. Some people will scoff at the idea of what I do, but if I figure that if spending a little of my downtime analysing pictures can help make the difference between a good bow, and great bow, then it's time well spent.
The shape you see has nothing to do with the intended final tiller - at this point I am using it strictly for judging if there are any stiff spots, as well as symmetry, as you mentioned. Some people can do this strictly by eye. Although I do trust my eye, sometimes it's nice to have a second opinion ;)
In the case of this bow, I hope to leave the handle area just slightly stiffer than a full-compass tiller, just to reduce the handshock a bit. So to compare it to a circle would not quite be what I am after. As the tiller progresses, you will see the shape come closer to circular, but it won't quite get there (hopefully! I will likely have to leave that area alone now for the rest of the tillering process).
Now, a question for the warbow gurus on here - I probably won't get to work on the bow much until the weekend. Looking at that last snapshot, I'm thinking that I should be working around the area about 2/3rds of the way out from the handle, and leave the very tips until they start coming around more? Then when it comes time to soften up the tips more, I will probably try to tiller them a bit from the side again to hopefully help bring the string back over the handle as much as possible. Am I on the right track?
Mark, when I get back to tillering I will try your suggestion and give the limbs a gentle nudge in the right direction. How far would you suggest pulling the string back, 10 inches or so?
Thanks everyone for all of the feedback so far. As much as I normally like to have projects planned out before even starting them, I am definitely learning some things on-the-fly, and it's nice to have some experienced eyes watching over me on my first "heavy" self bow.
-
I use my camera for tillering after I reach 20" of draw by using the timer function and then transferring the image it to my shop PC, before 20" I use a T stick. Then I use an old copy of MS photo editor to edit the picture and rotate it around so I can see the bow from different angles.
I would soften the outer left limb a bit but leave the right alone. I would also work the handle area, but that's just me.
10" should be enough. You may have a hard time with the bow turning in the vise though. Try it and if it's too hard then just use dry heat, unbraced of course, on the outside of the sideways bend so that the wood is being compressed rather than stretched
-
Got a little farther along today, right now it's at about 120 lbs @ 28.5". I say "about" since the scale only goes to 110, but I'm pulling the needle another 10 lb increment past that.
It's getting real close now.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/120_28.jpg)
-
Nice! Lookin very good. Yes, you're getting close. I have a 200# scale. Come get it if you want.
-
Great job on the tiller. I always struggle on long bows trying to get that nice uniform transition where the rate of bend increases gradually and then starts to decrease again as it nears the tips. Again, Good Job!!
-
Thanks for the info on programs! Looking great! Like watching a hockey game in overtime ;)
-
Thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate it.
Steve, I don't want to sound cocky, but I found that with the process I used to tiller this bow, those transitions you speak of came almost automatically. They were just the result of tillering very slowly, analysing the pictures after every wood removal/exercise session, and just looking for flat spots in the tiller. Sure, it took a long time, but I'm in no hurry :)
Just a quick update on the bow - I didn't get much done today because I had to do a little heat correction for the tip alignment. Going to leave it alone now for a few days to let things equalize again.
Someone asked me about my pulley setup so I figured I'd snap a couple pictures. I rigged up a system using 3 pulleys to make it a little easier to yank this girl back on the tree. You can see in the pictures below that I am using a 1/4" nylon rope tied to the bottom of my scale, it runs down to a pulley, back up to another pulley attached to the scale, and then back down to another pulley before leading out from the wall to a wooden dowel handle. I only have to pull with half the force (or is it 1/3rd? I forget my high school physics class), but also have to pull twice (or 3 times) as much rope to get the same draw length.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/tiller_top.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/tiller_bottom.jpg)
-
Cool setup, I like the 3 pulleys, I would like to try 3. I got me a setup with two right now, yours is pretty cool.
-
Thanks for posting your pulley system. Instead of the 3 separate pulleys, could you use a double wheel side-by-side pulley on the bottom?
-
Adam - I initially had a bolt running through both of the bottom pulleys together, essentially making it a double pulley, but it kept wanting to twist the eye-bolt, making the rope bind, and pulling everything all cock-eyed. I think it was because there were still two separate clevises attaching the pulleys to the eye bolt. This is just what seemed to work best with what I had kicking around, but I think if a guy used a proper double pulley with only one clevis, that should work too.
I got curious about the physics so I did a little google search and found this. My setup resembles the third illustration (but upside-down), so basically I am pulling with 1/3 of the force, but pulling 3 times as far.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/800px-Four_pulleys.jpg)
I couldn't resist doing a bit more work on it tonight. It is now sitting at about 115 lbs @ just over 30". There was surprisingly little wood removed between this picture and my previous update. Basically just tweaked the tiller a bit and gained another 2.5" draw length. But for that little bit of wood removal, the tiller certainly became much more circular. Just goes to show how easy it would be to screw things up when you are near final tiller.
I think it's about time to do some finish sanding and call it a bow! I'm still debating whether I want to try full horn nocks, or just do some sort of overlay. I change my mind every time I think about it :)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/115_30.jpg)
-
Outstanding tiller, Cam! I'd call it done on the tiller, and shoot it in now. I can't wait to see it.
-
That looks perfect. Amazing job!
-
Yeah, that looks great.
Like you say, when you are getting close, it doesn't take much wood removal. Just sneezing on the bow and you can get another inch of draw :laugh:
Del
-
Thanks guys.
Del, I spent a good while perusing your blog tonight. Some really good info there. I think you have inspired me to try horn knocks, providing the horns I have will work. Your method cleared up a lot of the questions I had about getting a proper fit. I was wondering though, approximately how wide is that custom-shaped spade bit at the base of the cone? Would 1/2" be enough for a heavy weight bow, or do you think I should make the cone a little wider?
-
Half inch is plenty. The MR tips are just under half an inch at the cone base. My recent 120# yew has a cone base width of 10mm.
-
Thanks guys.
Del, I spent a good while perusing your blog tonight. Some really good info there. I think you have inspired me to try horn knocks, providing the horns I have will work. Your method cleared up a lot of the questions I had about getting a proper fit. I was wondering though, approximately how wide is that custom-shaped spade bit at the base of the cone? Would 1/2" be enough for a heavy weight bow, or do you think I should make the cone a little wider?
First one I ever did was a 1" bit :o... but that was daft.
I bought a couple of 16mm bits they are cheap enough, I have about 3 different sizes, one tiny one for miniatures. One for regular and one for Warbows, Oddly the last 100# I did I used the 'regular' on the top tip and the 'warbow' on the bottom.
So the bottom line is 16mm is plenty, as the hole in the horn will always end up a tad oversize anyway, 'cos you can't gring it perfectly symmetrical and it will prob' chatter. (It's a pig to try and clamp a tapered bit of horn tight in a vice)
If you make the taper nice and long you can just go in deeper if you want it a tad wider. I don't like the ones where they have a perfect straight sided cone IMO it should be a slightly curved point... don't s'pose it makes any real difference really.
Glad you find the blog useful. I started it as a reference for myself really and it just grew from there. It's so easy to forget how you did something the last time.
I used to hate doing horn nocks, now I'm quicker n slicker I love 'em :laugh:
Del
-
As a bit of side info, there was a thread on the EWBS forum a couple weeks back about the shape of the Mary Rose horn nocks, and the cones on the bows. They're all slightly curved like the wing of a spitfire rather than a straight taper, and Mark Stretton's theory behind it is that on certain cow horn (I think on the younger cows or fresher horn) there is already a cone shaped hollow through the natural horn that is that curved taper shape. So the bowyers just shaped the tips to fit the natural hole rather than drilling into the horn itself.
That's probably where the theory that all the horn nocks were removable and not glued to the bow came from, as the cones would all be very similar.
-
I have a good little tool for making the fit perfect.
Get a chunk of something hard and drill a hole in with your bit a deep deeper than your finished intended depth of cone. Then get a tenon saw or similar and cut a slot into one side of the cone hole (the full length of it).
Then get a bit of sandpaper, insert it into the slot, pull a bit throught so it touches the other side of the hole.
Push onto your rough shaped cone and rotate. It then sands off the high spots until you have a perfect fit.
Easy peasy!
-
Mike, you pretty much described exactly what Del does ;) ;D
That is a smart way to do it! Sounds like it simplifies things quite a bit.
-
I have a good little tool for making the fit perfect.
Get a chunk of something hard and drill a hole in with your bit a deep deeper than your finished intended depth of cone. Then get a tenon saw or similar and cut a slot into one side of the cone hole (the full length of it).
Then get a bit of sandpaper, insert it into the slot, pull a bit throught so it touches the other side of the hole.
Push onto your rough shaped cone and rotate. It then sands off the high spots until you have a perfect fit.
Easy peasy!
What I do is just shove a triangle of sanding belt into the horn itself and rub it on the bow tip to get it close. Than I take the sandpaper out and just rub the horn on the bow tip. The high spots will get rubbed and burnished, and look kinda shiny while the low spots will not get touched. So I will remove the shiny spots, and repeat until the horn fits good with no play. Man, I made some horn nocks for a guy recently. He was surprised that the hole in the horn was not "square". I told his I could not drill a square hole, and that it wouldn't work anyway. (the pictures of them clearly show a round hole anyway). He insisted that he usually buys horn nocks with square holes, from the man who makes horn nocks for 3riversarchery, who he says recently passed away and was his friend. I don't understand though, a horn nock with a square hole would not work? I tried to explain to him that an english longbow is not square. He said he wished I would of drilled the ends in a d-shape, so it would work with a d - cross section. ( :o ) I explained that a d - section bow is still round at the tip.... :( :( :( I made a video for him showing how I put the nocks on, and linked him to del's blog and a thread where I did some horn nocks. He still insisted that the english longbows he made would not work with the nocks because the nocks I sent him were drilled "circularly"... :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
... ;) Ok, I will stop going off topic. I think horn nocks are fun too once you get a hang of em. I use a straight taper, I feel like it doesn't matter too much also though. I think it makes tons of sense that they would of used the natural hole Cameroo, it would save so much production time.
-
I have a good little tool for making the fit perfect.
Get a chunk of something hard and drill a hole in with your bit a deep deeper than your finished intended depth of cone. Then get a tenon saw or similar and cut a slot into one side of the cone hole (the full length of it).
Then get a bit of sandpaper, insert it into the slot, pull a bit throught so it touches the other side of the hole.
Push onto your rough shaped cone and rotate. It then sands off the high spots until you have a perfect fit.
Easy peasy!
What I do is just shove a triangle of sanding belt into the horn itself and rub it on the bow tip to get it close. Than I take the sandpaper out and just rub the horn on the bow tip. The high spots will get rubbed and burnished, and look kinda shiny while the low spots will not get touched. So I will remove the shiny spots, and repeat until the horn fits good with no play. Man, I made some horn nocks for a guy recently. He was surprised that the hole in the horn was not "square". I told his I could not drill a square hole, and that it wouldn't work anyway. (the pictures of them clearly show a round hole anyway). He insisted that he usually buys horn nocks with square holes, from the man who makes horn nocks for 3riversarchery, who he says recently passed away and was his friend. I don't understand though, a horn nock with a square hole would not work? I tried to explain to him that an english longbow is not square. He said he wished I would of drilled the ends in a d-shape, so it would work with a d - cross section. ( :o ) I explained that a d - section bow is still round at the tip.... :( :( :( I made a video for him showing how I put the nocks on, and linked him to del's blog and a thread where I did some horn nocks. He still insisted that the english longbows he made would not work with the nocks because the nocks I sent him were drilled "circularly"... :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
... ;) Ok, I will stop going off topic. I think horn nocks are fun too once you get a hang of em. I use a straight taper, I feel like it doesn't matter too much also though. I think it makes tons of sense that they would of used the natural hole Cameroo, it would save so much production time.
I have a lovely tapered reamer that works great on horn and antler I also have a tapered tenon cutter that matches. Just thought I`d throw it into the mix ! ;)
-
I have a lovely tapered reamer that works great on horn and antler I also have a tapered tenon cutter that matches. Just thought I`d throw it into the mix ! ;)
Honestly not trying to go off topic, but can you "ream" a tapered square shaped hole with these in horn? Maybe that was how my guy got his square nocks made? If you want you can send me the answer in a PM, I don't wanna go off topic anymore and distract from Cameroo's outstanding elm warbow build, ;D. Tiller is looking very nice!
-
I made my custom spade bit (ground down a 5/8 bit), cut my horns, and drilled them out. Not sure if I should be using these though. There are some visible de-laminations, and I'm not sure how deep they will go. I was going to glue them on and then shape them, but now that I see this, I think I'll do the bulk of the shaping first, in case they turn out to be unusable.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0133.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0132.jpg)
-
They do look a tad risky! You never know though. Make sure you glue them onto the bow with good quality runny superglue. Unlike epoxy, superglue can penetrate right into the fibres of the horn and gives a really solid bond. That's my advice anyway, but I'm just a newbie! I was told to use superglue by a couple of very experienced warbow makers from the EWBS and I ignored it at first, until I had a nock delaminate along the grain on the tiller. Superglue has been much kinder so far...
-
I made my custom spade bit (ground down a 5/8 bit), cut my horns, and drilled them out. Not sure if I should be using these though. There are some visible de-laminations, and I'm not sure how deep they will go. I was going to glue them on and then shape them, but now that I see this, I think I'll do the bulk of the shaping first, in case they turn out to be unusable.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0133.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0132.jpg)
I wouldn't use those, just because you never know how far the checks will go. If you PM me your address I'll send you some horn tips. And I use the gel kind of super glue, I don't like the runny kind at all, just my take though. The brand I use is gel loctite, I like it because it works and you can shape the horns instantly. One thing that does suck about using super glue, is if it is really cold outside and you bump them on something, there is a chance they will come off. As super glue gets weak when it's cold, etc. I like it though.
-
I've never used the gel type. In fact I don't think I've ever seen it in shops round here! If I spot some I'll grab it, cos the runny stuff is fantastic (I use loctite also) but gets everywhere!! Does the gel still penetrate the fibres of the horn properly?
-
Hey, Cam... I have several nice cow horn tips. I don't do many, so if you want to come over and pick out a set, let me know!
-
I've never used the gel type. In fact I don't think I've ever seen it in shops round here! If I spot some I'll grab it, cos the runny stuff is fantastic (I use loctite also) but gets everywhere!! Does the gel still penetrate the fibres of the horn properly?
It works for me, also for overlays too. I'd be weary using the runny stuff personally.
-
Thanks for the offer Daniel (do you prefer Dan?), but since Adam offered some, I'll save you the cost of shipping and go pay him a visit. I did some more excavating on these horns, and they're junk. Cracks all throughout, so I'll have to put the project on hold for the time being. I'm working on a proper jig to make an endless loop string. Can do some finish sanding too I suppose.
-
Thanks for the offer Daniel (do you prefer Dan?), but since Adam offered some, I'll save you the cost of shipping and go pay him a visit. I did some more excavating on these horns, and they're junk. Cracks all throughout, so I'll have to put the project on hold for the time being. I'm working on a proper jig to make an endless loop string. Can do some finish sanding too I suppose.
Okee Dokey, offer still stands if you change your mind, I can drill them out for you if you want too. Dan or Daniel is fine, I actually go by my last name though (tidwell). I bought some horn like that before, that was all cracked up. I bought some too recently that was beautiful, but then after a few weeks it started to crack too on the ends. I think because it was freshly cut. Someone from highland horn told me you need to seal the ends of the horn when they are fresh with boiling wax and let the horn season for a year or so, and then they will be stable and not crack anymore.
-
Cam popped over to my shop this afternoon with the big elm warbow. It's impressive. Early draw weight is really high. Too much for me to draw and let down that's for sure. I got him some bits of solid horn for nocks, and I'm guessing we'll see it all prettied up very soon. Now we just need the winter to go away, so I can watch him shoot it!
-
It's very nice. Elm though is not as elastic as Yew and you may see some chrysals start to develop in the outer limbs in time. That's why I prefer a more circular tiller with any white-wood
-
I finally got the nocks shaped and just have to buff them up some. Just wanted to share a little fix I discovered. I got a little greedy filing the string grooves and exposed some wood. I the OCD side of me could not bare to look at it, so I did some excavation with a scalple to cut the really thin part out and then colored the wood with a black sharpie. I filled in the hole with a few layers of CA glue, and then cleaned it up with some fine sandpaper. It turned out pretty good, you can't even really see the patch unless you know it's there.
Picture after removing the really thin part:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0466.jpg)
And here it is after the sharpie/crazy glue treatment:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0467.jpg)
-
I'm guessing that's the bottom nock? That looks great! Your horn to limb transition looks very smooth. Well done Grasshoppa! I'm glad to see you getting this bow done, so we can go shoot it soon. Too bad the weather's gone to shite, but next weekend is shaping up to be decent.
-
Unfortunately I still haven't been able to give this girl her field trial, hopefully I'll be able to get out with it sometime this week.
I put it on the tiller tree today, and plotted a force-draw graph. It gave a pretty consistent 5lbs/inch of draw length, right up until the last inch of draw, where it started to stack. I can't wait to see what she can do.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/forcedrawcurve.jpg)
Here's a picture of the needle on the scale wrapping around back to zero ;)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/scalewrapped.jpg)
And the final full draw tiller (115lbs@32"):
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/final_115at32.jpg)
I'll post a few glamor shots once the last coat of finish dries.
P.S. - I also discovered a new favorite bow-making beverage... seems appropriate 8)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/cider.jpg)
-
Great thread! Beautiful bow amigo!!
-
Great work dude, sensational tiller shape. Can't believe you've only just discovered Strongbow. They serve it extra cold in the pubs here. Nothing better!
-
Ditto what Wills said. I love the tiller shape. I would expect you will come very close to 300 yards with the livery arrow(750 grains approx??)
-
Awesome bow!
Awesome beer!
Awesome all around!!! ;D
Very nice tiller, perfect!
-
Ditto what Wills said. I love the tiller shape. I would expect you will come very close to 300 yards with the livery arrow(750 grains approx??)
That's awfully ambitious, I would expect more like 230. The FD curve may suggest less.
Lovely tiller shape. Do keep us updated!
-
Thanks guys!
That's awfully ambitious, I would expect more like 230. The FD curve may suggest less.
That's kinda what I was thinking - around 230, and that's assuming I can yank it back the entire 32 inches! Also, I think livery arrows are closer to 1000 grains, aren't they?
Anyway, I'll be sure to update with it's performance as soon as I can. Who knows, maybe it will surprise us? I have a laser range finder so I'll be able to measure the distance quite precisely. All of my arrows are around 80 grams (around 1200 grains), so hopefully I can get Adam out with me and use some of his lighter ones.
-
I was thinking of the lighter around 750 grain arrow, not sure what they call that one. 230 with the 1,000 grain arrow would be a good shot.
-
Very nice Cam! Looking forward to seeing it next month. Way to go!!
-
The Standard arrow is 800 grain (52 gram). Though even then based on the bow I wouldn't expect it go go massively more than the bigger arrow. Just the limb speed of these bows means most arrows unless in the extremes will go near enough the same distance. My guess 240-50 would be a good shot with a Standard arrow out of this bow.
-
Looks really good. I didn't see a picture of the bow unbraced. Did the bow take uniform set?
-
nice pics, great tiller and FD curve. :laugh:
Del
That scale shows zero at 31".. is that some sort of let off like a compound? ;) ::) >:D
-
That scale shows zero at 31".. is that some sort of let off like a compound? ;) ::) >:D
Yup, it's a new cam development, with 100% let-off :)
Here's an unbraced profile Marc. The lower limb appears to have a little more set in the outer limb, but it's hard to say if it took even set, since there were a few tip alignment corrections during the tillering, and some mild reflex would have been added to portions of the limbs in the process.
I wiped on some stain (actually, it is an antique gel made for leather) to the belly before applying the finish, because I wanted the grain to "pop" a little bit more, and it also gave it a two-tone effect (wannabe-yew ;) )
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/unbraced.jpg)
-
Beautiful Cam. Real nice job!
-
The lower limb is where the ones I made started to chrysal over time. Yours is a few inches longer than the ones I tend to make so hopefully will not succumb to that malaise
-
Yes a very good tiller indeed. I'd be very surprised if the bow shot a standard arrow (6" x 3'4" fletches and 52g) any more than a furlong or 220 yards, not in the humid UK at least. Not a criticism of the bowyery but based upon experience of heavy ash bows. Please post the how you get on with it.
-
Well I finally got a chance to hit the field with Adam to launch some shafts with this girl. I was able to yank her back all the way a few times before my back and shoulders crapped out on me. The best shot of the day was from a 31.5" arrow, weighing 77 grams, that flew over 230 yards (our target pin was set at 204 yards with a rangefinder, and I paced the arrow off at 28 paces past the pin). Although the bow has been finished for a while now, I can officially call it a shooter now. Kinda funny that my first successful selfbow also happens to be the heaviest bow I've made :)
Adam caught a brief video of the trial run before his camera battery died. Here's a link for anyone that is interested:
http://youtu.be/EvfeDyEM8u0
-
Cool video!! Man that looks fun and painful all at once ;)
Y'all talk funny too ;)
Cipriano
-
Nice, it looks like you are drawing smooth and easy! But I know it's a heck of a strain on elbows and shoulders.
(I named my 100# Elm warbow "Dennis Elmbow" as in Tennis Elbow :laugh: )
Del
-
What a beautiful bow. Well done dude.
Y'know, you're drawing that by just pulling straight back, and it looks totally comfortable and in control. If you were to step into it, with your weight forward rather than back, and roll the ol' shoulder, I think you could be shooting quite a bit heavier. The really top guys are always going on about leaning forward, and down into the bow, which pushes it away as you draw back. If you stand upright, or even lean slightly back you don't gain that advantage and you're fighting it the whole way.
I may be wrong, and you might be doing it perfectly, but when compared to Mark Stretton for instance who visibly leans forward with all his weight on the front foot, it's markedly different.
Hopefully Jeremy (yeomanbowman) will reply as he actually knows what he's talking about!
Anyway, sorry to digress. Lovely bow, great tiller and exceptional performance if it's chucking 77g arrows that far!
-
Very nice. It looks like your shooting angle is pretty good. There's quite a few things that can affect how far the arrow goes though, besides the bow. Besides the physical size of the fletching too much helical can also have a big effect and center of balance also has an effect, too much FOC and the arrow will want to nosedive.
-
Is the belly fairly flat on this one?
-
Cip, it sure was fun. I just wish my back would have held out a bit longer.
Mr. Cat, those first few shots might have looked easy, but they got pretty sketchy very quickly.
Will, I certainly have much to learn about technique. I was just doing what felt natural at the moment. I'm sure with practice the draw and release will improve.
Mark - thanks. Just FYI the arrows that I was using were a mix of oak and maple shafts, ranging from 71 grams up to 83, with fletching measuring 7.5" long, 5/8" high, and were fletched nearly straight (not helical). The shafts were 1/2 at the heads and the last 12 inches or so are tapered down to 3/8".
Victor - yes, I would say the belly is flatter than most warbows I've seen. I tillered it that way to hopefully prevent chrysalling.
-
our angle and tecnique looked pretty good, if you could learn to come off that string while still drawing back just at the right moment without stopping you will add some yardage. Thats a good bow!
-
Why do you have the front end of the shaft bigger than the tail? That would tend to make it front heavy. Your 77 gram arrow comes out to roughly 1050 grains, which is pretty well 10 GPP.
-
Yes a very good tiller indeed. I'd be very surprised if the bow shot a standard arrow (6" x 3'4" fletches and 52g) any more than a furlong or 220 yards, not in the humid UK at least. Not a criticism of the bowyery but based upon experience of heavy ash bows. Please post the how you get on with it.
Sorry, I did read the draw weight and then forgot later on in the thread and read the 80 as the draw weight rather than inches. Hence the estimate.
The technique looks good to me given that you are easily master of your bow. The style Will mentions helps you draw a higher weight as you can use more of the body.
-
Thanks Steve, I appreciate your input. I'm still relatively new to warbow shooting so I don't really know what constitutes a "good bow". I know from watching back the video that my release needs some improvement. I think part of my problem is that I will draw the shaft back, and then hesitate for a split second as I glance over to the point to make sure that I've reached full draw (and in the meantime I'll let off half an inch! ::) ). That's something I'll have to work on.
Why do you have the front end of the shaft bigger than the tail? That would tend to make it front heavy. Your 77 gram arrow comes out to roughly 1050 grains, which is pretty well 10 GPP.
In my very limited experience with warbow shoots, I was getting better cast from shafts with that profile, as compared to barrel tapered shafts (haven't tried any untapered shafts yet). Don't ask me why they seem to fly better, because I don't have a scientific explanation, but the difference was apparent. Also, I already had some field points that measured 1/2" at the shoulders, and I just used what I had on hand. But I do believe that this is a common design amongst EWB shooters.
The taper allows a lighter shaft without really affecting the spine. Although I have a feeling that these arrows are spined too heavy for this bow anyway... sometime I would like to shoot some video to see if I can capture the flight of the shaft right out of the bow.
-
A very impressive bow indeed, and I felt like a proud papa that Cam could shoot it. I can shoot 100# no problem, but add that extra 15# and I hit a brick wall.
-
Why do you have the front end of the shaft bigger than the tail? That would tend to make it front heavy. Your 77 gram arrow comes out to roughly 1050 grains, which is pretty well 10 GPP.
Because the arrows we're shooting are made to EWBS and CWBS specs. That particular arrow is over weight for a livery arrow 63g), but it's made to meet the specs for this type of shooting. If you're interested, go to either of their websites and check the details for yourself. And yes, they're front heavy... on purpose.
-
Cam forgot to add... he shot one of my heavier arrows, a 95 gram oak with a heavy plate cutter type head, and he got 190 yards with it. That is very impressive too.
Now, if I can just get this boy shooting in the bow a bit more, I think he'll be able to shoot it more than a half dozen times!
-
Why do you have the front end of the shaft bigger than the tail? That would tend to make it front heavy. Your 77 gram arrow comes out to roughly 1050 grains, which is pretty well 10 GPP.
Because the arrows we're shooting are made to EWBS and CWBS specs. That particular arrow is over weight for a livery arrow 63g), but it's made to meet the specs for this type of shooting. If you're interested, go to either of their websites and check the details for yourself. And yes, they're front heavy... on purpose.
You are more involved with and have more interaction with the warbow crowd so I will take your word for it
-
There are a couple of arrow "types" that the warbow community have got under their name so to speak. By using the same type of arrow all over the world it's a really neat, efficient way of bringing people together globally to compare flight results and bow performance results as we know we're all shooting the same thing, so it's only the bow and the archer that change.
I don't think Cam is shooting any specific Warbow arrow here, but if he made one up to a Livery spec for instance (30.5" long, hand forged small Tudor bodkin, 7.5" x 5/8" fletchings, and weighing 63.5g) and recorded a flight distance with it, everybody all over the world would know instantly how good his bow and his release is.
I would guess, judging by this first testing of the bow Cam would be able to record some exceptional distances using some EWBS spec arrows. It seems to be spitting them out really nicely!!
As an example, Aaron Williams a really talented bowyer and archer over in New Zealand recently posted some flight results up on Facebook and with a 120lb Elm warbow he was getting 249 yards with a 63 gram Livery arrow. If Cam is hitting 230 yards with a heavier shaft from a 116lb Elm bow, he must be in with a shot of getting right up there with the lighter arrow.
-
'The best shot of the day was from a 31.5" arrow, weighing 77 grams, that flew over 230 yards (our target pin was set at 204 yards with a rangefinder, and I paced the arrow off at 28 paces past the pin).'
That seems a bit far to be honest but if you measured it with a LRF then fair play to you. I would never expect someone to get that distance with that particular arrow/bow combination.
-
Ian, the distance to the pin was actually confirmed with a second rangefinder, so the only margin for error in the measurement would have been in my 28 paces, which I would suspect would be only +/- 5 yards. I took fairly long strides and I have long legs. But I'm not out to prove anything. I am just following up for those that were interested in the bow's performance. If the cast is surprising, then I suppose I did my part in tillering and shooting the bow. ;)
As I mentioned, my arrows do not meet any standard specs. For the most part they do, but they came out heavy. I was shooting for 65 grams finished weight, but they all turned out 71-83g. Two coats of polyurethane added more weight than I anticipated. But the piles are conical, so maybe the arrows are slightly more aerodynamic than a shaft tipped with a bodkin?
Will - I would like to launch a few livery arrows to make some standardized comparisons, but at the moment I don't have any. If I do get the chance to shoot some I will update my results.
-
I'm not questioning your integrity, take my scepticism as compliment. With a second LRF you can't argue and I don't think you'd get much wrong in a few paces. Well done!
-
Here are a couple frames from the video. At some point I would like to get some high resolution full draw pics, but for now this is the best I've got.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/32inchfulldraw.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/release.jpg)
-
great work!
what's the thickness taper of this bow? and the mass?
-
Thanks Leehongyi.
The starting dimensions are listed in the first post. After tillering, it ended up 1.09" thick and 1.55" wide at the center, and the tips are approximately 0.65" round. The front profile has a 4 in parallel section in the handle, and then straight taper to the tips. The cross section is more rectangular than most ELBs.
If I remember right, it was around 780 grams right off the tiller tree, but the finished mass is 804 grams, after the horn nocks and finish were applied.
-
have you tested the speed？
-
Sorry, I don't have access to a chrono.
-
Just a little update on this bow - A few of us were out for a shoot yesterday with some EWBS spec arrows. We were shooting for records, so I only got to shoot two arrows of each type, but this bow managed to cast a standard arrow 244 yards. I think with a little more practice on my part, this bow could do even better. But that beat my personal best by about 14 yards, so I was happy :)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t253/cbergerman/WarBow/DSC_0920_640.jpg)
-
Cast of characters: L to R... Grant Mitchell, Grande Prairie, Alberta. Adam Beck, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Matt Mercier, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Cam Bergerman, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.
Results:
Grant Mitchell, shooting 120# maple backed yew bow (Bowyer: Adam Beck)
Standard Arrow (52 grams) 239 yards (ties CWBS record)
Livery Arrow (64 grams) 220 yards (new CWBS record)
Bearing Arrow (60 grams) 239 yards (new CWBS record)
Quarter Pound Arrow (114 grams) 192 yards (new CWBS record)
Adam Beck, shooting 100# maple backed yew bow (Bowyer: Adam Beck)
Standard Arrow (52 grams) 217 yards
Livery Arrow (64 grams) 196 yards
Bearing Arrow (60 grams) 197 yards
Matt Mercier, shooting 92# maple backed yew bow (Bowyer: Adam Beck)
Standard Arrow (52 grams) 211 yards
Livery Arrow (64 grams) 179 yards
Bearing Arrow (60 grams) 197 yards
Quarter Pound Arrow (114 grams) 141 yards
Cam Bergerman, shooting 116# elm selfbow (Bowyer: Cam Bergerman)
Standard Arrow (52 grams) 244 yards (new CWBS record)
Livery Arrow (64 grams) 204 yards (new CWBS record)
Bearing Arrow (60 grams) 229 yards (new CWBS record)
Quarter Pound Arrow (114 grams) 178 yards (new CWBS record)
Congratulations to Grant and Cam on their amazing achievments!! And to Matt on his first warbow shoot!