Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Richard B on March 04, 2014, 05:24:00 pm
-
I have recently acquired a pair of yew billets and am hoping to make a sleeve type takedown longbow from them. My previous experience of bow making is limited and I appreciate that this is quite an ambitious project. I am hoping that by going slowly and carefully I can make it work. Time will tell!
The billets are just about 1 year old and I have just finished removing the bark with a knife and scraper to reveal a nice, defect free back on both staves (allowing for a few small pin knots).
The sapwood is a bit thicker on one billet, however, tapering from about 5/16” down to ¼” compared to the other which tapers from just under 1/4 “ to just over 1/8”.
I guess I could thin out the thicker one a bit, but it seems a shame to depart from the nice surface I got after debarking and risk losing my way chasing a ring.
-
Beautiful billets...Good luck and keep us posted...And welcome to PA
-
Welcome RB. Nice looking yew, looking forward to your build.
-
Personally, I wouldn't worry about removing sapwood. I would work with them as they are now. Nice billets.
-
If the billets were cut only a year ago I would let them sit another year, especially if you want to attach them to sleeves. Not a good idea to have the wood shrink in the cross section after it has been glued.
If you haven't made at least 2 decent bows yet you should get some experience with some cheaper wood before attempting yew. Yew is not necessarily any more difficult to work than other woods, but its not the kind of wood to use when learning because it takes so long to grow. Make a mistake and it really is a waste.
Get some skills in tillering, make mistakes if your going to with some less valuable stuff, by that time your yew will be properly seasoned and you will be confident to do it justice.
-
Many thanks for the comments. To be honest, have been feeling a bit nervous about diving into those nice yew billets. I think I will take Hamish's advice and have a go with some wood that I can be more relaxed about while the yew drys out a little more.
-
Good idea. Those are gorgeous yew billets and it would be a shame to ruin them due to inexperience. Get your hands on some inexpensive maple or hickory boards and have at it. Walk, then run. ;)
-
I think that is wise. Those are some prime yew billets you have there - it would be a shame to mess those up.
-
Now I recognize those billets ;) Glad you found your way here to PA Richard. Great advice given above. It might be a good idea to seal the backs lightly as well. Look forward to seeing what you end up once you do get to these.
-
Thanks Carson, I'll put some polyurethane on the backs when i get home at the weekend. They are in a cool room inside and I think the humidity is quite high with all the rain we have been having so hopefully they should be OK.
-
I wouldn't worry about taking off sapwood. I personally think that a year is plenty of time to dry those out, but that's just me. I fear that at my age I can't afford to wait too long or I'll be dead! I usually rough the bow out right away secure it to a 2x6 and put it a warm place for two or three months and I'm ready to finish it off. It works for me, but I know plenty of the guys will disagree. For what it's worth. Dale
-
Starting to work on fitting the sleeves. Working down the section of one of the billets, two knots that were tiny pins on the belly, have been growing as I get closer to the depth of the sleeve. One (smaller) will be right on the sleeve boundary and the other (larger one) will be in the fade area (see picture below).
The back of the bow is clean (i.e. both knots are grown over at some depth).
I guess that knots around the sleeve boundary are not a good idea, even if they are in compression.
At the moment, the billet is just under 38 inches long, so I could remove a couple of inches and still have a 72" bow. This would get rid of the smaller knot and bury the bigger one inside the sleeve. What do you think?
-
Nice billets. Even with yew I had that was 4 years old and up, after I roughed them out and weighed them they still lost some weight for another month. If you don't have a scale, I'd rough them out with some extra meat, then stash them under my bed for another month or 2.
-
Thanks for the advice wizardgoat. The staves have been indoors over a hot and dry summer (by English standards!) and don't seem to have lost any weight in the last few months. I agree, though ,that reducing their thickness, exposing some of the inner wood and seeing how they go for a time might be a good idea.
-
Richard, I think the knots will be fine. I would try to avoid leaving them exposed along the edge there, but it doesn't look like that is an issue from where they lie. The thing you will need to avoid in order to have a durable long-lasting take-down is the stepped shoulder going into the sleeves. It needs to be a smooth gradual reduction in width down into the sleeves. Don't leave any shoulder, not even butting up to the brass. This is tempting to do in an effort to make the surfaces of the brass and billet smooth, but it is better to leave the edge of the ferrules proud and smoothly run the wood into the sleeve. I have seen a couple of yew take-downs develop lifted splinters when shouldering the joint.
-
Richard, I think the knots will be fine. I would try to avoid leaving them exposed along the edge there, but it doesn't look like that is an issue from where they lie. The thing you will need to avoid in order to have a durable long-lasting take-down is the stepped shoulder going into the sleeves. It needs to be a smooth gradual reduction in width down into the sleeves. Don't leave any shoulder, not even butting up to the brass. This is tempting to do in an effort to make the surfaces of the brass and billet smooth, but it is better to leave the edge of the ferrules proud and smoothly run the wood into the sleeve. I have seen a couple of yew take-downs develop lifted splinters when shouldering the joint.
+1
-
Good idea. Those are gorgeous yew billets and it would be a shame to ruin them due to inexperience. Get your hands on some inexpensive maple or hickory boards and have at it. Walk, then run. ;)
He could ship 'em to me to look after in the meantime O:)
Del
-
Carson,
Many thanks for that. I have seen a number of takedowns where the belly and sides (to about half depth) have been shouldered, but did wonder about the longevity given repeated compression against the brass, so will take your advice and taper down to the inner brass sleeve section all round.
Interested that both you and Weylin do not think the knots will be a problem where they are in relation to the edge of the sleeve. I can see that they will be well away from the edge of bow and the back is free of any defects. They are quite solid from what I can see at the moment, but there is no knowing how they develop inside the wood before they are grown over, so is there not a danger that the bow will be weakened in an area of high stress concentration around the sleeve edge?
-
My take-down was one of them that lifted a splinter. I think if i do another one I will do some string wraps at the step to help with strength.
-
Steelslinger,
Did it lift a splinter on the back or belly?
-
Just got a "Shinto Rasp" and started reducing my yew billets. What a brilliant tool! Used a surform for a lot of the wood reduction on my elm bow and this is a joy to use in comparison. Fast wood removal and very precise with no danger of gouging out wood around knots. In the past I have used the edge of a saw for shaping wood (can work well but you need to develop a real feel for it, or it can be risky). By combining a whole lot of saw blades this tool seems to have turned this approach into something really useful.
-
One of my billets has about 25 degrees of prop twist. I am thinking of heat treating to correct + induce a bit of reflex to match the other stave (it is currently slightly deflexed). I have never tried dry heating bending wood before, or heat treating yew in any way. I have steamed other woods before (both for bow making and boat building) and feel more comfortable with this.
The stave is currently tapering from about 35mm thick out of the fades to 20mm at the tip.
What have people had more success with with yew?
-
I would use a good long steam. As for the previous question, the splinters lift on the back of the bow where the grain ends abruptly at the shoulder.
-
Yup, steam. Three days ago this 6' yew stave had over 90 degrees of twist. I made up a steam box that clamps to my caul so that I can twist it while it's still steaming. Thanks for the idea Del :)
-
DC, any chance of some building schematics? I've got some maple and pear wood with some serious twist that needs fixing.
-
Here's a couple of pictures. The box is a friction fit to the caul. I clamp the box to the caul and stuff the ends with rags. The strap wench works good and doesn't mark the bow(so far). The steam generator is a Conair fabric steamer that I got a the Sally Ann for $5 (Can). Holler if this isn't enough.
-
Brilliant
-
Grasp! Smart! Hmmm haw can I make that for mine?
-
Woo that's a nice bit of kit :)
Del
-
Interesting! I wonder if the steam loses any heat as it travels through that long tube.
-
I have a hole in the box for a thermometer and it reads 210 degrees. The steamer manufacturer calls it a "cool hose" so I'm thinking it's insulated a bit. You can hold the hose when it's steaming. When I'm sure of my setup I will shorten the hose so that any condensed steam can drain back to the steamed. The shorter hose should make it even hotter, maybe 211 degrees ;D ;D
-
DC
90 degrees of twist! That seems a lot to take out. Do you think it will stay straight as you reduce it to bow thickness?
My steaming rig is a bit more basic (see pic). Used a length of 68mm downpipe. Slight issue is that the down pipe went a bit soft and is now rather misshapen. However, have managed to remove my billets twist and given it a bit of backset.
-
DC
90 degrees of twist! That seems a lot to take out. Do you think it will stay straight as you reduce it to bow thickness?
I'm hoping. It's in the hotbox losing the last few grams and it's still straight. Tillering will tell. I've found that yew bends really nicely with dry heat so if it does start to wind up as I tiller it should be easy enough to fix. Always remembering that applying any heat to this stave from now on is going to make it want to wind up. No heat without restraints.
-
I would as well cut that hose to your ste box DC. I think ull get a lot better steam. I'm sure some of it condenses before it makes it to the box. None the less it's sweet. May just heat up faster for ya
-
I just put the steamer on the stool to get it in the picture. When I use it the steamer goes on the floor and the hose is downhill all the way. If you have a dip the condensation collect and it gurgles like mad. The hose will definitely get shortened as soon as I am sure how much. If I just flew at it I'm sure I would shorten it too much. It only holds enough water for 40 min so it warms up in about 5 mins. Just enough time for me to recheck everything and have a mouthful of coffee.
-
Steelslinger,
Did it lift a splinter on the back or belly?
It was on the back corner where the sleeve rolls around to the belly
-
Interesting! I wonder if the steam loses any heat as it travels through that long tube.
My tube is longer...and it will burn ya!
-
This is the takedown sleeve fit that I have at this stage. Shouldered at the belly (to the depth of the brass inner sleeve), with the shoulder tapering out towards the back so that there are no cut fibres under tension. I am thinking that the shoulder, by transmitting compression load to the edge of the brass sleeve might make the join more robust?
However, concerned over Carsons and Steelslingers experience with splinters lifting from shouldered joints.
I am thinking of around 55lbs at 28" on a 70-71" NTN bow. Does that seem sensible for this kind of sleeve joint (thickness of wood inside sleeve 35mm)
-
Myself I would make it a smooth tradition. As the brass is stronger than the wood it will crush it if it has the chance IMO. When you tiller it will need to be taken down any way so I would take others experience and smooth it. I joined two osage billets in a pipe and left shoulder as u say. I wrapped the fade areas and it worked fine. It's also about 40 lbs. good luck to ya. Looks like she'll be sweet
-
That's beautiful! But, I would listen to the experienced yew takedown builders and not use a shouldered joint. This sounds like a theory vs. practice question, and those billets are too nice to risk.
-
The yew take down I made is pushing 70 lbs. that I'm sure had something to do with it.
-
Any ideas, what are the safe limits on draw weight with these kinds of sleeves for a yew longbow?
-
As long as it has a fade u should be good. U just need toake sure the handle isn't bending.
-
As long as the area immediately around the handle does not bend you should be fine.
-
Thanks for that. I am thinking I could tiller to 55lbs aiming for a drop off to around 50 after shooting in. That's what I did with my elm bow and it seems a nice weight for me. At 55 lbs I think I should get minimal bending at the handle and through the fades.
The width at the end of the fades is currently coming out at about 1.5 inches so perhaps around 3/4 inch thickness here tapering to 1/2 at the tips?
Haven't made a bow from yew before so interested to see how it responds.
-
Picture below shows the sleeves fitted. I did away with the shouldered fit in the end and faired the ends of the billets into the sleeves as described in TBB vol 3, after doing a little test piece that suggested that this might be stronger (as suggested by you guys :)). I fitted a thin sapwood wedge to one of the billets to even up the reflex between both limbs (about 1"), you can see the end of it in the picture.
Good news is that both the knots I was concerned about earlier around the sleeve area disappeared as I shaped the ends to fit the sleeve (one of them became worryingly large and messy before doing so...). You can see the shadow of one of them on the bottom left hand corner of the picture.
The not so good news is that I ended up with a sloppier fit between the steel and brass sleeve than I wanted :( .No play side to side but I have a little play front to back (about 5mm at the end of the limb).
-
Looking good
-
Trimmed both limbs width to 1 3/8" at the fades tapering to 3/4" at the tips (to allow for adjustment of string line). The thickness tapers from 25mm at the fades to about 15mm at the tips, 71 " NTN. The tip overlays are temporary, plan to reduce length to 70" NTN with the final tip overlays.
Starting to bend. As shown below, drawing 50lbs on the long string. I think I need to narrow the tips down now to get the limbs bending more towards the tip. That and a little bit off the lower (right hand) limb should balance them up and bring them to a low brace height.
I did have a bit of a nasty moment when the bowyars knot on one end of the string came undone. There was a great crack as the bow straightened and I thought it might have fractured for a moment. Doesn't look like any damage done to the bow :). My hand didn't do so well, caught my index finger on one of the nails, lots of blood :'(. Felt like a real idiot, must have done it up the wrong way or something, the knot has held up for many hundreds of arrows before.....
Need to sort myself out with a pulley system for tilering.
-
That is looking really nice Richard. I as for the bowyers knot coming undone, I have had that happen to me several times. I cant get a good bowyers not to hold in fast flight material, and so I use B-50 for tillering strings, which is annoying due to the stretch. I found this knot diagram while looking at yumi bow website. I havent tried it yet myself, but it looks like it might be the ticket. Kind of a double bowyers knot.
-
I gave up on tillering strings and bowyers knots holding. I refuse to use B50. Stretching-slipping, whats the difference? I just keep a load of various ff strings on a screw in my shop wall. One will always fit whatever stage Im at with whatever bow.
-
I'm with ya Pearl..... :) ;)
DBar
-
What Pearl says...
-
Carson, thanks for the improved knot, seems to be working well, no more misshaps :). Struggling a bit with stretch though. Wanted to get off the long string and onto a low brace asap, but found that, if the string was long enough to get onto the bow without bending it beyond 55lbs, it then stretched so that I got no brace at all. Dont seem to remember having the same difficulty with my elm longbow.
Have been gradually working it down and now managed to get a 4" brace (just), which works out at 55lbs at 23 inches of draw (not much material to remove now). - Pictures below, with target curves for a 6" brace and fully drawn at 28".
The tips are now narrowed from 20mm to about 16.5mm and had to go over to one side about 1-2mm to bring the string into line with the center of the handle.
One question. The upper (left hand limb) has about 1" reflex and the lower limb (now) has not much at all - as you can see from the previous tillering picture. If I make the upper limb more curved at brace, relative to the string (as generally advised) it will have had to bend even more from its resting position. Is this a good idea?
-
Tricky to get the lower and upper limb to an even tiller. The ring count on the upper limb is much lower than the lower limb and this seems to make the wood less stiff.
So I have had to thin down the lower limb much more (it is about 1mm thinner than the upper limb now). Made more interesting by the back of the upper limb which undulates both down the limb and across it, making it challenging to get an even taper and to spot the curvature on the tillered shape. I think I have an even tiller, without any weak areas/hinges :-\. I am now at 50lbs at 26 inches draw and getting close to a balanced tiller. At 5-6" brace the tiller is such that the distance from the belly to the string is about 0.3" more on the upper limb than it is on the lower limb - which is close to where I want it to be, and close to my target curves at brace and full draw (see below) :). Still a bit of work to do to even the tiller out. I want to end up at around 55lbs at 28", so not as much room for manoevre as I would have liked.
Next I plan to replace the temporary tip overlays with horn (shortening the bow length from 71" to 70" NTN) and continue tillering to 28". Also planning to back with rawhide to protect the soft yew sapwood. Is it a good idea to overlap the rawhide slightly under the end of the overlay to protect it against unpeeling from this end? Or would it be better to do the overlays first and then lap the rawhide over the end of them slightly?
-
I like to stop the rawhide short and cover the end with
A seeing thread wrap. Liquid hide glue works great for rawhide.
(http://i.imgur.com/VeT5cIg.jpg?1)
-
Better to do rawhide under the overlay, otherwise it is possible for the string loop to find its way between wood and rawhide and split the two apart. After rawhide is applied to tip, you can prepare the wood/rawhide surface at an angle so that most of your overlay material is glued to wood, and only some rawhide at the leading edge.
Glad the knot is working for you. If stretch is still an issue and you are using fast flight, then it might be that you have too much twist in the body of the string. Try making adjustments with the knot rather than shortening it by twisting.
I saw you mention a loose fit. Front to back looseness can be remedied quite simply. It sounds a bit brash after doing fine polishing but the method Richard Dyckhoff shared with me is surprisingly effective. With the take-down sleeves joined, put the handle in a vice with the back of the bow facing upward. Take a steel punch and make two to three divits down the middle of the face of the steel sleeve, over the half which has the removable limb inserted. Hard to describe. I need to draw it up. Best to start with a couple of light raps on the punch the first go around and the check the fit. Always check the fit while bow is removed from vice, and only use enough vice pressure as necessary to hold it. Supporting the backside of the sleeve with a chunk of wood will require less force from the vice jaws.
Looking good. Very fine craftsmanship. Tiller looks pretty good to me.
-
That's a good idea Carson. You are effectively mushrooming the surrounding area where you punch your divots, which takes up the loose fit. I will have to remember that one.
-
Carson
Thanks, some really useful advice there.
I think what you are suggesting with the rawhide was what I was thinking of doing myself, but was a bit worried about the possibility of a peel failure under the leading edge of the tip overlay, where it has some rawhide under. However, it seems a few people have had success with this, and it does protect the end of the rawhide as you say, so I think i will go ahead and see how I get on.
I am using B50 string,which probably accounts for my problems with stretch. Was really only a big problem at the beginning at low brace, when I had to struggle to pull the pow far enough to put the string on (being careful not to go beyond 55lbs of load) only to see the string stretch and the brace disappear >:(. Much easier now I can brace to 5-6 inches without overloading the bow. :)
Good idea for dealing with the loose fit on the sleeves. I shall have a go at that.
-
Carson,
By the way, all the blind knots I was concerned about have disappeared completely as I have been taking down the belly during tillering. Either lucky, or you are very good at selecting billets :)
-
The 1" or so of reflex on the upper limb has now been lost. In order to work out where this has happened I have taken a photo of the bow unstrung and superimposed it on a photo of the unstrung bow before I started tillering. It is clear that no set has occurred in the lower limb (right hand). The faint image on the photo is the original shape and I have traced a black line over the sapwood/heartwood boundary of the upper limb to aid the comparison with the current shape. It seems clear that the set has occurred in the area of the limb where the back undulated a lot, going from a crowned cross section to one with a deep dent in the middle and then back to crowned. I have attempted to taper the thickness evenly through this area on both sides and down the middle, but it must have remained an area of relative weakness. Looking at the drawn curve shape (photo above at 26" draw) there does not appear to be any sign of a hinge in this area.
On a positive note, both the upper and lower limb are now balanced in terms of reflex (dead straight). However, I would like to keep it that way if I can over the next 2" of tillering. Very little material to remove from the belly now, so not much room for manouevre. Does anyone have any ideas other than avoiding touching the belly in the area where set seems to be developing?
-
Make sure your upper fade is moving, looks slightly stiffer in the above graphs. This could be causing your set...The 4" brace graph...
Don
-
Don,
Yes at that stage there was a little too much thickness around the fades. I thinned them out and I think they are both moving enough in the later photo (26" draw). One thought about possible cause of set. I locally steamed that area of the limb before I started tillering. Could that have weakened the wood slightly in that area?
-
Richard,
I don't think steam would weaken it, wood does crazy things though...I must say that is a beautiful takedown, hope to see detailed pics soon...
Don
-
Re: take-down sleeves, I have done ten or twelve take-downs and a little movement back and forth is not a problem, at brace and while you are shooting it won't affect anything, unbraced it doesn't matter, and it won't get any worse. I have an osage, static recurve that I have been shooting for 15+ years and it has a slight back and froth movement unbraced, no problems at all when shooting.
-
Applied rawhide backing using liquid hide glue and wrapping in bandages. Wasn't sure that the rawhide would follow all the bumps and dips, but seems to have worked out well.
The rawhide stretched about 1" in length (over a 36" limb length) and has pulled some of the reflex back into the upper limb as it dried and contracted again. It will be interesting to see what happens to this when it goes back on the tiller.
Next, plan to fit horn tip overlays. I have shaped the ends at an angle so that the tip overlay will fit over a bit of the rawhide (the tapered bit) - see photo below.
-
Horn nocks fitted and back to tillering. Length reduced by 1" to 70" NTN which, combined with the rawhide backing (?) means that I am now back to 50 lbs at 23 inches, which gives me a little room to play with the tiller to get me to 55 lbs at 28". Photo below shows current tiller superimposed on target curve for 28".
The reflex that came from applying the rawhide has disappeared after exercising a few dozen times on the tiller.
Think I might shoot a few arrows at 23" draw and see how it settles down before I take any more wood off.....
-
Looks very good.
I would tiller that baby to desired length and then shooting in.
Only a few scrapes to do ...
-
Took quite a few scrapes to get it to 55 lbs at 27 inches (photo below). When braced the upper limb has about 1/4" more tiller than the lower limb, which is about where I want it to be. At 27" draw the upper limb is pretty close to my target curve and the lower limb is a bit stiff. However my spreadsheet assumes a symmetrical bow and mine is not (upper limb 1 inch longer than lower limb)- plan to modify the spreadsheet to allow for this at some point. So I think I need to scrape a bit off both limbs to bring me to 28" draw.
Before I started tillering I steamed the lower limb to remove some of the twist and about 1" of deflex. The twist removal has stayed in, but the deflex is back.
Do others find this happens?
I suppose its not that surprizing since steaming allows one to compress the fibres in the back easily to remove the deflex, so one might expect the fibres to stretch out again as they are exercised on the tiller.
-
Could have told you before..... :P
If you steam something and let it bend later in the direction you bent it after steaming, your bent will dissapear.
-
Benedikt,
Yes seems obvious now. Although, how do people manage to get steamed reflexed tips to last ?
-
Even if it does have a touch of deflex in one limb. That baby looks freaking awesome! :D
-
Arrived at final tiller of 55lbs at 28 inches :). Stringfollow after exercising limbs and shooting a dozen arrows is just over 1" at each end. For the lower limb that equates to the return of the deflex I (mistakenly, see above :-[)) thought I could steam out. The upper limb originally had about 1 inch of reflex, so I have lost 2 inches here, all in the middle of the limb where I did some localized steaming of the stave (so that seems to have weakened the wood a bit in that area).
Next thought I might put some snakeskins over the rawhide. Is is a good idea to degrease and abrade the surface of the rawhide first?
-
Good work! Let's see that beauty drawn by hand.
-
Yes, drawn by hand with an arrow on the string please! :)
Looking very nice Richard. Getting steam bent yew to stay put almost always requires doing a little follow up dry-heating to temper the belly a bit. that usually does the trick.
Yew longbows seem to shrug off a little string follow like it is nothing. They still shoot very snappy and have the forgiveness of a stringfollow bow. i wouldn't worry about an inch or even two of stringfollow on that bow.
-
Looks good! but yes....that bow is begging for an archer to pull back on it and show all it's glory!
-
I like this post. There is so much helpfull hints and ideas in it but most of all that is an increadable bow. I also can't wait to see the full draw pics. Great job
-
Thanks for the kind comments. Full draw picture below. Sorry about the my form, but the bow looks OK :).
Gutshot, glad you have found something helpful from this post. Need to be a bit careful with my comments though, this is only my second bow and I am still learning/experimenting. Still, there has been lots of great advice and comments from more experience bowyars!
To finish off I am planning:
1. trim up the horn tips to reduce weight a bit.
2. Add some snakeskins.
3. Add an arrow rest.
4. Work some leather to make a handle that fairs into the fades.
-
Nicely done sir. I'm a little more jealous of the background....we are getting over a foot of snow up here in NY today!!
-
Only your second bow? Well done sir. 8) Cant wait to see it all finished up.
-
Very nicely done! A yew self bow T/D and spot on tiller. Super!
-
nice bow. I've only made two yew bows but I really like working with it and shooting them.
-
Nice! Is it a smooth shooter?
-
Finishing the tip overlays:
Fixed buffalo horn over the chamfered tips/rawhide to protect the edge of the rawhide (as sugested by Carson, see previous post and photo). After shaping the overlays I filed a very shallow lip (0.2mm?) in the horn so that the snakeskin could overlap the horn but have something to protect the edge. The snakeskin was then applied so that it ended on the horn, beyond the lip and then trimmed back by sanding off on the horn. Hopefully, the photos below show how this worked.
The snakeskin was fastened using liquid hide glue (as was the rawhide). The rawhide is a darkish brown and the colour it gives the snakeskin and the slight translucence makes it almost seem alive! (haven't used them before - but love the effect).
I tried the various methods suggested on the net for removing scales, but couldn't get them to work. In the end I flicked them off individually. Didn't take as long as you might think, and at least I know I got them all off before I varnished the limbs.
-
Looks good man!
-
What a beauty! And 2nd bow at that, keep 'em com in Richard.
-
That is some admirable attention to detail there. Looking forward to seeing the finished product!
-
Great build-along.
Thanks for sharing.
Beautiful bow.
Del
-
Many thanks for the kind comments, getting close to the finished product now...
As discussed in previous posts, I tapered the billets into the takedown sleeves as I think this gives the most robust arrangement from a strength point of view (see first picture below).
Wanted to come up with a way of disguising the abrupt transition and lumpy look of the takedown handle.
The way I came up with was to build up the join with cork (as shown in the second picture) and also feathered out the edges of the leather to fair the handle profile into the limbs. The 3 sections of leather are laced with 1mm diameter round section leather.
-
Ok. .. that is just super cool. ..
The finished handle is just. ... wow. ..
Great job. ..
Where are you located with all those palms behind you? Looks like my neck of the woods. .
-
Well that turned out fantastic. Great job
-
That turned out great. Congrats I can't wait to do a takedown one day.
-
Great compromise on the transition into the sleeves. I think you made the right decision about having the wood flow into the handle but the cork covered with leather is a perfect solution for the aesthetics. I'll use that in the future if I ever forget what a pain in the @$$ takedown sleeves are and do them again. ;)
-
Pacco664, full draw picture in in Devon in the UK, not particularly tropical!
Weylin, Thanks for the comment. Great to think I have managed to come up with something of interest to a master bowyer like yourself!
Was aware that it was a bit of an ambitious project for a second bow and didn't want to destroy the lovely pair of billets from Carson! Spent a long time building this one, but have learned a lot on the way, lots from you guys on this forum, so many thanks. Not perfect, but ended up with a bow that shoots nicely and looks the way I wanted it to.
Some of the main things I picked up for the future were:
1.The importance of monitoring set during tillering. I followed the method set out in one of the TBB volumes where you pull the bow to max draw weight at each stage and then shave wood to maintain an even curvature and gradually increase draw length up to the required amount (see the tillering pics in my earlier posts to see how this worked). In my limited experience, this seems to guarantee hitting the required draw weight at the required draw length. However, I think I could have done better with set. I am happy with the overall amount of permanent set (about 1 inch on each limb), however it is a bit uneven along the limbs - which means some parts are working harder that others (not particularly efficient and may have implications for the life of the bow?). Towards the end of the tillering process I compared the limb profiles with the original (traced on a piece of paper, and in photoshop) just after bending. This way I could see exactly where set was occurring, and by avoiding these areas when scraping off material to increase draw length (at the same draw weight) avoid any further set occurring in these areas. Unfortunately I had already got a bit of uneven set at that stage, which I think I could have avoided if I had monitored more carefully earlier.
2.First Brace: I think some of the earlier set may have occurred when trying to brace the bow for the first time. With a stretchy dacron string, had to bend it beyond the braced curvature to get the string on and may have overloaded it in doing so. Doing this first bracing a bit later and in a more controlled manner with a stringer (so as to make sure it was not loaded beyond the target draw and was evenly bent) might have worked better.
3.Steaming out deflex: Tried on the lower limb, to even up with the top limb. Didn't work. Not surprizing really, since steaming works by allowing you to bend the wood by compressing wood fibres. If you do this to steam out deflex, you are compressing fibres on the back of the bow, which then just stretch out again as you stress them under tension when tillering. It might work doing this on a non working part of the bow (e.g. flipped tips), I guess, but not in highly stressed areas? Interested in others views on this one.
-
nice work,, the sting follow may be having little effect on the performance,,,, especially if the mass of the bow is at a minimum,, a bow that is dead even, but too much mass is still not shooting its best(appearance can be deceiving),,,, test your bow for distance or through a chrono to see how she does,, and you can tell what effect the set is having if any,,, :)
-
sounds like a good plan. Now need to get hold of a chrono... :)
-
Been watching, turned out really nice. great job in all aspects. :)
Pappy
-
Part of the set simply comes from design. 70" might seem long, but for a yew bow of narrow, stacked limb and a stiff take-down handle, that is pushing it to get 55# at 28" It would be ideal with more of a bend that flows through the handle section.
That said, what an incredible second bow. Don't let 1" of set bug you. It happens.
-
Carson,
I think you might be right. I went for just under 1.5" wide out of the fades and continued this width out to about half the length of the limb, but a bit more length might have helped. Thou, as you say 1" set not the end of the world. If fact there is very little string follow. The upper limb is dead straight (having lost its original reflex) and the lower limb hasnt gone much beyond its original, pre steaming, deflex.
So if you didnt know what shape it was to start with...
-
A fine looking and very elegant bow Sir.
Are you SURE this is just your second bow...? ???
;)