Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: WillS on April 15, 2014, 09:01:01 pm
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For those who missed it, or don't have access to certain forums / Facebook , Joe Gibbs has broken the current record for Livery arrow distance at this year's EWBS shoot held by Mark Stretton at Donington.
Here's the video of the shot (the bow is 170# Italian yew and made by the exceptionally talented Ian Coote) and the distance achieved was 292 yards. Pretty insane.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/bowyr/170lb%20Italian%20Yew%20Warbow/th_IMGP2787_zpsc26e5916.jpg) (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f71/bowyr/170lb%20Italian%20Yew%20Warbow/IMGP2787_zpsc26e5916.mp4)
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Both very impressive achievements... casting a 65g arrow 292 yards, and doing it with a 170# bow. Congrats!
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Amazing! I don't know what's more impressive, the bow, or how Joe just holds that sucker back like it ain't no thing :)
Joe's war face looks a lot meaner than yours Adam ;)
Thanks for the link Will.
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W-O-W.
I uploaded it on youtube in case photobucket goes slow for people, it goes slow for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTX1kss99_0
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The whole thing is impressive, every aspect!
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Wow~what's the bow's length?
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this is a 2012 record?
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2014 record. He set it last month!
What's even more impressive is that the string is natural fibres - no FastFlight or Dacron!
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2014 record. He set it last month!
What's even more impressive is that the string is natural fibres - no FastFlight or Dacron!
Wow, that is indeed impressive. Goes to show what natural can do. It does look like he is grabbing the bow a bit high in the pic though. I'll have to watch the vid
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2014 record. He set it last month!
What's even more impressive is that the string is natural fibres - no FastFlight or Dacron!
Is it linen?
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Not sure Daniel. I'll ask him at some point. Last time I spoke to him he was using hemp.
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By the sound at release, I'd say every bit of energy went right into the arrow. Well done, shooter, and bowyer!!!!! Hearty congratulations all around!!! I love this stuff!!!!!
Robby
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I'd like to know the diameter of the string. Everyone knows that the surviving Mary Rose arrow nocks "prove" that warbows were only 80-100 pounds because it is impossible to build a natural material string that will hold up to any higher weight and still fit an 8mm nock.
::)
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Robby, actually he got somewhere around 55% of the energy into the arrow, which is still excellent for a 5.5 grains to the pound arrow.
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Holy crap!, that is impressive, from the Loose to the final results, well done.
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Robby, actually he got somewhere around 55% of the energy into the arrow, which is still excellent for a 5.5 grains to the pound arrow.
How do you figure that? I'm not being facetious... I'm interested to know how you calculate the bow's (or any bow for that matter) efficiency.
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I'd like to know the diameter of the string. Everyone knows that the surviving Mary Rose arrow nocks "prove" that warbows were only 80-100 pounds because it is impossible to build a natural material string that will hold up to any higher weight and still fit an 8mm nock.
::)
That old myth has long since been disproven.
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@ adb: could you tell more about that? I don't know the current viewpoint of the experts.
Thanks in advance,
gian-luca
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Well it's been disproved simply by this record. Joe is using natural fibre string with EWBS Livery arrows. Livery arrows have to be 3/8" at the nock end, and the nocks are usually cut with a standard tile saw or standard width bandsaw blade. They end up generally around 1/8" wide. Any wider and the strength of the nock is compromised.
Considering that Joe is using a 170# bow here it's fairly apparent that the string withstood the shot.
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@adb, thanks for your fast reply and the info. So it's not that somebody found out that the nocks did shrink during drying and/or conservation. They really were 3/8 inch wide. So for us metric this is a tiny bit more than 3mm.
I make my linen strings for my 50-55 pounder also that width, with a margin of safety of about 5 to 6 times the bow weight. If I would put that string on 170 pounder the margin of safety would drop to about two times the draw weight and that would be scary low for me :)
How much margin of safety do you think is safe for warbows of 120+ weight? Or how low do you dare to go?
On the vessels from the mary rose time they seemed to carry about 4 strings per bow, quite a good reserve. So perhaps they were awaiting some broken strings... or wanted to be on the safe side, being in war...
ciao,
gianni
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Adam, without doing a measured FDC on the bow all I could really do was an estimate. As a general rule a long bow will store energy approx equal to its draw weight. He said the bow shot a 960 grain arrow through the chrono at 210 fps. The arrow had about 94# ft# of kinetic energy which is about 55% of it's draw weight. Just an estimate but likley not too far off.
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@ adb: could you tell more about that? I don't know the current viewpoint of the experts.
Thanks in advance,
gian-luca
I've disproved that theory myself. I have a linen string (of just slightly more than 1/8" diameter) that I've used on a 120# warbow I made. It withstood multiple shots and the bow and string are fine. The string didn't stretch much, either. That string currently resides full time on a 90# yew self warbow.
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The British guys on the Leatherwall foam at the mouth if you mention that a natural material string can be made in smaller diameter and hold up to anything over 100 pounds.
There is also the draw weight issue as if people back then were planning on having a chronic injury free old age and thus were careful not to over-bow themselves in their youth.
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Yep! It seems unlikely that in a time of war when archers were desperately sought after, a whole load of manly soldiers were going "Oooh I dunno boss, I'd love to join your elite force into France and keep my family alive while making some decent money, but I'm currently only on a 95# bow and I've read that it's sensible to progress in 5# increments, so I don't think I could handle your military specific 150# bow I'm afraid. Maybe next year?"
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I'm sure most have heard this before, but... some of the skeletons recovered from the Mary Rose showed deformation due to shooting heavy draw weight bows over many years. I've been shooting 100# warbows for almost 10 years, and my skeleton has no significant deformation, so it must be caused by something more than that.
I was sceptical too PatM. I always wondered how a natural fiber string could withstand such large forces. I disproved it myself. 120# isn't at the top end, but it's certainly north of the mystical '100# limit.' Also, with no significant reduction in cast, or adverse effects to the string or bow.
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I have made strings well up to the task as well. When you mention that you have made a linen string for a bow well over 100 pounds they immediately call you a liar or make disparaging comments about proving manliness as if that is the only reason to attempt to duplicate the old bows.
The warbow cult is a strange one.
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In regards to the deformation of the skeleton - there was a pretty good documentary a while back called Ghosts Of The Mary Rose. It featured the EWBS shooting, it showed Steve Stratton putting a 170# bow on the tiller but more importantly they scanned Mark Stretton's shoulder after (but not straight after) shooting the Guinness World Record's heaviest bow at 202lbs. They showed definite and distinct damage to the bone and cartilage of his bow arm due to the compressive forces of the bow. It wasn't the same as the skeletons on the MR because Mark hasn't been shooting from such a young age - the belief being that young bones are yet to fuse, and repeated damage such as shooting heavy bows is enough to PREVENT the bones from ossifying properly - but it's very clear from that, that these bows DO cause skeletal structure damage with repeated use. I'll try and find it, and post a link.
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Well I found it, far easier than I thought.
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v15536356yKc73mEf?h1=Ghosts+of+the+Mary+Rose
Skip forward to 16:39 minutes in. And enjoy the EWBS shooting, drool over Steve's beautiful work of art, and check out the medical scan of Mark Stretton.
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I don't think anyone would dispute that the potential for damage is there but anything taken to extremes will do that.
Probably still a fair amount of individual variation in how different guys coped with it.
Some ex-football players are fine, some are crippled.
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I have made strings well up to the task as well. When you mention that you have made a linen string for a bow well over 100 pounds they immediately call you a liar or make disparaging comments about proving manliness as if that is the only reason to attempt to duplicate the old bows.
The warbow cult is a strange one.
Yes it is. Send those wankers our way, and we'll straighten them out.
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Well I found it, far easier than I thought.
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v15536356yKc73mEf?h1=Ghosts+of+the+Mary+Rose
Skip forward to 16:39 minutes in. And enjoy the EWBS shooting, drool over Steve's beautiful work of art, and check out the medical scan of Mark Stretton.
Brilliant video!!
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@adb: thanks for this clarification about the linen strings. I'd be interested in how your strings are made and look, but I perfectly unterstand if you don't have the patience to show and tell your methods.
When I make a linen string I proceed pretty much like the way it's described in the TBB by Tim Baker:
First I break several samples of one strand to determine the strength. Then I calculate the bow weight times 5 and divide the figure by the breaking strenght of one strand. That gives the total amount of strands that I have to use.
Then by dividing the needed number of strands into subplies and by turning them togehter I make a small rope. In the end I splice a loop on each end of the string (I don't like the timber hitch).
It's absolutely clear that I use only the best linen I can find (barbours or so) and I wax the strands very well.
The only way to go thinner wqould be lower the safety factor. Let's say from 5 to 3. So a string for a 120 pounder would have the breaking strenght of 360 pounds only. How strong was your string?
ciao,
gian-luca
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If you can recomend a good brand of linen I don't mind paying the price. I have struggled with this for years now. I have problem with bow that have a lot of string tension at brace.
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If you can recomend a good brand of linen I don't mind paying the price. I have struggled with this for years now. I have problem with bow that have a lot of string tension at brace.
I buy my linen from pyro supplies, you should be able to google it.
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Definitely impressive! And the the width of the bow too!
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If you can recomend a good brand of linen I don't mind paying the price. I have struggled with this for years now. I have problem with bow that have a lot of string tension at brace.
I buy my linen from pyro supplies, you should be able to google it.
I buy mine there also, my last two batches of 7 strand have a breaking strength of 21# average, 7 years ago I was getting 34# from the same twine, go figure??
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If you can recomend a good brand of linen I don't mind paying the price. I have struggled with this for years now. I have problem with bow that have a lot of string tension at brace.
I buy my linen from pyro supplies, you should be able to google it.
I buy mine there also, my last two batches of 7 strand have a breaking strength of 21# average, 7 years ago I was getting 34# from the same twine, go figure??
Did you buy their "military spec" unbleached linen? I bought only their so called "holy grail of linen" 70# breaking strength stuff so far. I only need 6 strands for a 50lb bow. It's thicker stuff though.
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I have a few rolls of pyro linen, their unbleached and waxed. The quality is far below the Barbours I picked up on ebay a couple years ago
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I have a few rolls of pyro linen, their unbleached and waxed. The quality is far below the Barbours I picked up on ebay a couple years ago
I'll check some of that barbours stuff out. I've been happy with the stuff from pyro's, but I never bought the waxed stuff, I bought the thickest 70# stuff. I take it Steve wasn't too happy with pyro's either.