Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: OffTiller on April 22, 2014, 07:14:59 pm
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So, this is my first posting and to keep this from being long winded, I would like to know what you guys think. I started this bow right when my computer died on my and had to finish without pointers or comments while it was being fixed. I have read all TBB's and spent about 6 months researching before started working wood, so I definitely have more education versus experience. My first 3 bows, all red oak, the first 2 blew and the 3rd I backed with linen but came out light at about 30# this is my fourth bow.
Bow
Black Walnut Board Bow
43-44# @ 28"
68" NTN
2" Fades
2 1/2 " Wide at Working Limb
15 1/2" Working Limb
15 1/2" Static Limb and Fades to 1/2" tips
Maple Riser
Linen Backed
One limb (been using as the top) has taken about 2 1/4" of set, the other has taken about 2". the top limb has 3 pin knots through the middle of the limb. Wide limbs seem to have helped with that, but does it account for more set? Anyway, just curious how tiller looks and any comments on the info provided. Wondering if heat treating could be a solution to fix a little set. Limbs to me look a little stiff around the riser. Thanks guys for all your help.
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a more perpendicular picture would help to get a little better view of the tiller. the main set is caused from the long static part of the limbs putting to much pressure on the inside fades of the bow heat treating would not help after the bow is already finished .im surprised this bow survived because i have tried some walnut board bows and the hart wood seems to very chalk like and brittle but i would like to see some more pictures to get a better like that would help alot.
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Unstrung and braced pictures would help diagnose the set.
Some degree of set on a mollegabet is pretty much expected given it's short working limbs. Heat treating before the set took place would have been better tan heat treating after the fact and probably would have reduced the set it did take. Those crushed wood fibers responsible for it won't be fixed with heat. It might hide some of the set for a while but will probably go back close to what it is now.
Set happens, if it shoots good I wouldn't worry too much about it as long as the tiller is good.
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here are some more pics. photography skills are lacking with my tablet but maybe will help.
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your right limb in the outer bending portion is a little stiff but it looks pretty good that is probably the bow limbs are taking set differently. next time id try to use as much as the limbs as possible with a almost circular tiller you will notice a huge difference in set when the entire limb is pressured instead of just the fades
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Welcome to PA first off, second I like the look of that molly. cool seeing some BW being used!
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My experience with walnut is that it needs to be backed. I have used hickory and sinew. Both will enhance the performance of just an all walnut bow. Without all the facts on moisture and the tillering process it is hard to say why it took that much set. I would think the wood species combined with that design may have had something to do with it. Mind you, some like a bow with set and many bows will have a little.
It is hard to get a good call on your tiller from this picture. Can you post another?
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That's a good looking bow. Re-examining the photos maybe the outer part of the limb, before the lever, could be bending more. I would shoot it and enjoy it. Congratulations on your Mollie.
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Pretty tough combination of bow design and wood choice for a molly and the forth bow.....
I think it looks great for a tough fourth build, the edges look a little sharp and could be a little softer.
But Hey.... overall..... the forth and its shooting great job. :)
DBar
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I can't really tell about your tiller in that pic, but all things considered...I'd say you done a fine job! I'm kinda partial to walnut myself. Although I haven't tried it in board form..yet. Josh
Edit- I missed the pic on the tree. You could've got a little more bend out towards your lever fades. In doing so probably would've prevented a little of the set, but that is really nit-picking. I still say you done a fine job!
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Congrats on the shooter!!!
walnut is not a "forgiving" wood...it needs TLC ,and to be designed to the T for whatever specs your wanting out of it...if not you'll run into some troubles....and just as important it needs to be tillered very well...and not just the end result...I'm talking about everything done before full draw is achieved....it seems like your slightly underbuilt,and your tiller is a hair off,and with it being your fourth try and lack I g experience you have incurred a lil more set than wanted...but its all part of the learning curve....so keep on keeping on....;)
You should try some osage ;)
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thanks for all the feedback. I will get a better pic of the draw up today. I do have a few questions though, Blackhawk - you said it might be underbuilt - does that mean that I have little to no room for adjustments? And to the guys who said that the outside of my working limb looked stiff - how should I handle fades better? Mine were 2" to the static limb and I think I might have started fading up about 1/4" to 1/8" before my layout marks. that might be wrong but without having done any fade work before I was concerned about human error. Should my fades be straight lined from worked limb to static - like point a to b or should they almost curve between those points? finally to DBar - you said my edges should be softer - how much can I round the edges of my bow before affecting tiller, and with a mollie should I keep the outside edges "flat" or more of a rounded shape? and from reading this should be done early, correct?
Again thanks to everyone for their help. Today I am going to start another mollie - I have fallen in love with the design, black cherry belly and what I am told is "tiger stripe" Maple for the backing. This will be my first 2 wood bow, so I'll post some pics and specs once my wife is done with me for the day.
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I'll let Blackhawk explain the fades for the most part. From what I can tell your fades look alright, you just need to get the limb bending closer to where the fade starts. Blackhawk might have better info on that though. As far as rounding the edges, just a small radius round off(small pea) will help keep splinters from lifting without effecting tiller much at all. That tiger maple ,AKA curly maple, will not work for a backing. You will need straight grained wood for a backing. It does however make beautiful belly wood. Josh
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great, that's good info on next bow. What do you think would be a good backing for the maple? I have the cherry and black walnut. Maybe a rawhide backing? or maybe cherry, maple and rawhide? thanks Doc
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One of the folks that builds laminates will be better suited to answer those questions. I just know that curly/tiger maple won't work for a backer. Josh
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Maple is more of a better backing almost as good as hickory because it's flexible, cherry from my experience is only good for laminated bows you could try backing black walnut with maple although I would ask around a bit more to see the best wood combos
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Nice job! I think the others have said enough about set and so forth.
Maple backed black walnut is a great combo in my opinion.
I have made 4 black walnut bows so far. two backed with Hickory and two backed with maple. All have performed well but I like the maple / black walnut combo better. It's lighter, seems to hold up very well and I think performs better / shoots faster.
I have not made a maple backed cherry bow yet but have heard some other very experience bowyers say it's one of their favorite if not most favorite combo.
I wouldn't think you would want to use black walnut or cherry as a backing. Maple is better for that. I would also suggest using "hard maple" which is also referred to as "Sugar Maple" or "Rock Maple" If I remember correctly. Must have straight grain. The straighter the grain the less your pain.
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Just to be clear, I'm not saying that maple is not a good backer. I'm only saying figured maple isn't or any other figured wood for that matter. Josh
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Yeah..ditto to gun doc....no go using figured wood(its called curly,birds eye,tiger,spalted,etc..)ANY kind of species of wood with these.....I'd even be leary of using it as a belly...I know some who've tried and had it fail or fret on them....IMO that kind of wood is only good for super thin veneers in glass bows(yuck...can't believe I even had to say that..lol ) or handle under n overlays etc where no bending is going on...I am contemplating trying one in a core in a tri lam(making it super thin)....but the jury is still out on that one and is still up to debate in my head....and I think everyone else explained well enough the why's on having smooth radiused transitioning fades