Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simson on September 15, 2014, 03:00:38 pm

Title: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (No. 49 + 50)
Post by: simson on September 15, 2014, 03:00:38 pm
Here is the stave I’ve got from my friend Erwin (thank you, Erwin!) from Austria. It is a bit deflexed, 52” long, about 2” wide at the crown, has some avoidable knots and unfortunately one absolute not avoidable.
I first thought about making a replica bow (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,48409.0.html), but gave up that idea and went for a free style design.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020789_zps7d1d04ec.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020790_zpsc94db4f0.jpg)


It isn’t wide enough to make billets out of it, so I decided to go for a short bow. A bow that short should be a bendy handle bow, which allows taking apart a belly split. First the ends got a new fresh cut to make the growth rings easier visible, next the split along the chosen ring was prepared with a chisel – the initial split is determining the splitting through. After the first opening I went with osage wedges, alternating one from the right, one from the left and so on.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020791_zpsadf6fbff.jpg)

ERC splits easy, so I can do second half of the job with only the draw knife, using it as a wedge.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020792_zpse96122f7.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020793_zpsc6acff37.jpg)

Everything went o.k. but the problem knot didn’t want to get loose.  I turned back to wedges and had a hard work, I didn't want to violate the soft wood but that branch was tough. You can see the problem knot in the middle.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020794_zpsc8e90ca9.jpg)

I considered turning over sawing this part, but suddenly the upper part gave up and split apart leaving the little branch in the belly split.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020795_zps3524528a.jpg)

Here from the back

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020796_zps2c22ad55.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020797_zps26ade172.jpg)

At least I had two staves, a back split with a hole and a belly split with a … mmmh – a little branch.
Let’s call the two splits mom and dad.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020798_zps02c1008a.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020799_zps88301ef9.jpg)

Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: BOWMAN53 on September 15, 2014, 03:28:33 pm
lmao good one
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: sieddy on September 15, 2014, 04:13:35 pm
Unbelievable- man you got some x-rated staves there! :o
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: blackhawk on September 15, 2014, 05:52:13 pm
Looks like mom likes to be on top  8)
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: ssgtchad on September 15, 2014, 06:09:45 pm
Hmmm morning wood!!  :o >:D
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: mullet on September 15, 2014, 08:40:39 pm
Looks like mom likes to be on top  8)

Dad looks happy ;D. Looks like some wood with a challenge ::) ;)
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: NeolithicMan on September 15, 2014, 08:44:03 pm
Great post, nice wood! :D :laugh:
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: Joec123able on September 15, 2014, 11:46:58 pm
Would love to see what you could do with cedar
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: Aaron H on September 16, 2014, 10:31:28 am
lmao,  this is great
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: Carson (CMB) on September 16, 2014, 06:25:59 pm
  ;D ;D Well played Simson!!
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: simson on September 17, 2014, 02:44:54 pm
Thanks for all the comments, guys!

Unbelievable- man you got some x-rated staves there! :o
Yeah, good to have some friends with staves.

Looks like mom likes to be on top  8)
That's for sure, she prefers the top position

Hmmm morning wood!!  :o >:D
---morning star---- ;D

Looks like mom likes to be on top  8)

Dad looks happy ;D. Looks like some wood with a challenge ::) ;)
Dad is very happy! Let's see what I can get out of them  ....

Would love to see what you could do with cedar
These are not the first ones, here is no. 1 + 2:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,40521.0.html
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,40525.0.html
They are both intact and ready to shoot

Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD
Post by: simson on September 17, 2014, 02:47:22 pm
Well, back again here. Had some trouble with the uploads to photobucket, not sure was it my account or the server broke down  ….  anyway here we go on


ERC is incredible light wood and very soft, it should have a backing. I will do a sinew backing on both.  First some cleaning up, a rough ring choosing, some side cleaning to taper the width and at least reducing the thickness on some parts.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020800_zps82cc165e.jpg)

dad's back

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020801_zps6558bf5c.jpg)

mom's back
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020802_zps27b73efe.jpg)

There weren’t much to play with and the staves determined more or less the layout. This cleaning up was made very roughly and did last no longer than 10 min per stave.
I like to have some short flipped tips, or short statics on bows that short. I steamed in a little bend on both staves. Here they are laying side by side, from left to right: mom, dad, two plains bows with already the first layers on and an indian hornbow which needs some more sinew on one limb. The two ERC staves were carefully prepared with acetone and three coats of thinned hide glue.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020809_zps6cc02175.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020810_zps0679a4d2.jpg)

I will go for pin nocks, but this soft wood  has to be strengthened with bone horn or at least rawhide/sinew. I found some horn leftovers, only 1-2mm thick – that’s enough.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020812_zps8331617e.jpg)

Forgot to take a pic of applying the little horn plates.
Next was the sinew job, sorry no pics from the process. Sticky glue on my rubber gloves and taking pics makes some trouble.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020831_zpsff55e573.jpg)

Both are now braced backwards with a cord and an old broken arrow or a stick while seasoning.
The cord will get slack in some time, then I replace the stick with a longer one.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020832_zps44573669.jpg)

But here is the result; I’m very satisfied how they came out. The sinew is worked around the hole and the remaining branch.

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020834_zpsfeacdbb3.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020835_zps657ceb2f.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020836_zps724d673b.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020837_zps20670b2c.jpg)

 (http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1020838_zps5f4926e6.jpg)

Now I will let the backing cure a bit and then wrap the tips and the handle with sinew. I think one layer is enough for that light wood. I will do pics from that process, but then comes the patience part … I will continue in early November or so.
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (part 2 added)
Post by: NeolithicMan on September 17, 2014, 08:53:42 pm
This is a Knaughty post  :laugh:
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (part 2 added)
Post by: Bob Barnes on September 18, 2014, 10:27:36 am
too cool...and I have several pieces of ERC drying right now...I'll be watching this!
"Ya' done good!"
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (part 2 added)
Post by: Erwin on September 18, 2014, 04:33:25 pm
just awesome!
i´d knew you were the right man for that stave!
 ;)
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (part 2 added)
Post by: simson on September 20, 2014, 05:40:42 am
Yeah, Erwin is here. Welcome on bord, great to have you here my friend. See this board also you're might interested: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/board,40.0.html


Secret:
(Erwin had made a bunch of very classy bows and also works on horn bows)
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (part 2 added)
Post by: Blackcoyote on September 20, 2014, 10:16:11 am
Looks great...can't wait to see these two completed. the color in that ERC is so unique
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (part 2 added)
Post by: Danzn Bar on September 21, 2014, 02:31:56 pm
Can't wait to see more ...Simson.. :)
DBar
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: simson on November 16, 2014, 01:08:12 pm
Here is what happened with MOM N' DAD
The sinew job went o.k., tips and handle were sinew wrapped and some dark brown pigments were applied when glue still was wet. Both got a paint job with same pigments on the back in an opposing triangle pattern.
At least some muskrat fur strips on handle and tips and I call them dressed up.
Dad got the darker fur, mom the brighter.
Both are now exact 50” ntn.
Mom 2” wide, dad 1½”.
As it is in real life, mom is stronger part – about 40#, dad is about 32#. Both drawn to 27”.


(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030181_zps0cfc5ab9.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030215_zps9409979e.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030182_zps047519b4.jpg)
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030229_zpsefa4a310.jpg)

MOM
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030234_zps73376562.jpg)

DAD, we didn't capture the fulldraw with dad, sorry
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030237_zpsad354530.jpg)


should I've named them Ernie & Bert?? That nose …
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030213_zps775cb668.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030192_zpsf0eb8572.jpg)

Dad's pride
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030220_zpsa1b7fb30.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030195_zps0efe9843.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030194_zps599652f5.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030198_zps1f1020f5.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030200_zps04a30b74.jpg)

that color of ERC wood is stunning …....
(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030212_zps38eb039d.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030210_zps511effda.jpg)

(http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh576/orangesimson/1409%20erc%20mom%20n%20dad/P1030214_zps55d93536.jpg)

Notice: Dad's stick is drilled out on the belly side to about the middle thickness of the limb. That dead branches are very hard, much more than the surrounding wood. I wanted to avoid a pin hard like concrete on the compression side.
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Danzn Bar on November 16, 2014, 01:22:04 pm
Those finished up mighty sweet...really like the finish work.
Would you please explain a little more on how you did the coloration on the back?
Thanks
DBar
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: burn em up chuck on November 16, 2014, 01:23:29 pm
   very very cool, you accomplished a lot with that

                                       chuck
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Pat B on November 16, 2014, 01:40:14 pm
Excellent bows, Simon and excellent interpretation and execution on your part. When I first saw the finished pics I thought you had cut out the "v" decoration on the limbs but realized they were painted on and not cut out.  :o
 Very nice bows as always.  8)
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: SLIMBOB on November 16, 2014, 01:45:21 pm
Missed these two somehow???  Very interesting build along Sir.  I am always impressed with what you do.  Splendid work!
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: bushboy on November 16, 2014, 02:10:48 pm
Amazing work as perfect as they come!
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Klondike on November 16, 2014, 02:28:50 pm
Two of the coolest looking bows I have seen, excellent work!
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: randman on November 16, 2014, 03:00:28 pm
Again I am not disappointed at the amazing work of Mr. Simson!  Beautiful! (along with humor as well).

The purple color of ERC is amazing...unfortunately the color is fleeting as it will eventually change to a rich golden brown unless someone knows a
secret finish that will protect from the uv. Maybe keeping it in a dark closet when not in use?
I like the color it turns to as well, almost a yew color.
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: IdahoMatt on November 16, 2014, 03:10:46 pm
Those turned out awesome.  Great job Simon
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: blackhawk on November 16, 2014, 03:32:26 pm
Those finished off sweet :)  never can go wrong with sinew on erc ;)
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Drewster on November 16, 2014, 04:30:53 pm
Simon, being very new to building bows, I've really enjoyed seeing your posts and am inspired with your creativity and craftsmanship.  Thanks for taking the time to share what you do......and do so well.
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Badly Bent on November 16, 2014, 05:58:19 pm
Wow I love these bows, you are a true artist and craftsman Simon. Those two primitive beauties could go right into a museum. Outstanding work.
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: wizardgoat on November 16, 2014, 09:12:53 pm
Those are sweet. Would love to shoot one of your bows one day
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Aaron H on November 16, 2014, 10:59:39 pm
Those turned out great Simon.  Love how you made them a matching set.
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Peacebow_Coos on November 17, 2014, 02:24:49 am
Nice work Simson, love the ERC PNW style, that's purdy
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Del the cat on November 17, 2014, 03:10:35 am
Gorgeous bows.
Del
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Parnell on November 17, 2014, 09:41:16 am
Beautiful bows, Simon. I really enjoy how you finished them up.
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: simson on November 17, 2014, 01:44:13 pm
Those finished up mighty sweet...really like the finish work.
Would you please explain a little more on how you did the coloration on the back?
Thanks
DBar

Not sure what you want to know.
The V decoration is simple painted on the cured sinew, paint is a homemede mixture from earth pigments + hide glue + a bit of soda. After the decoration has dried out, several coats of homemade hardening oil was applied. Hope I could answer your question.



Again I am not disappointed at the amazing work of Mr. Simson!  Beautiful! (along with humor as well).

The purple color of ERC is amazing...unfortunately the color is fleeting as it will eventually change to a rich golden brown unless someone knows a
secret finish that will protect from the uv. Maybe keeping it in a dark closet when not in use?
I like the color it turns to as well, almost a yew color.

I have noticed the process of loosing the pink color can be stopped or at least nearly stopped. It depends a lot of the finishing material, my homemade mixtureseems to be the best so far.
But this two are number 4 and 5 out of ERC, so it needs a lot more of testing out ....




THANKS ALL
for your nice compliments
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: missilemaster on November 17, 2014, 05:38:12 pm
I missed this!  Awesome  Simon :D
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Marc St Louis on November 18, 2014, 07:58:58 am
Very nice.  I would have considered using a thin blade saw to cut the knot when you were splitting but it actually turned quite well.
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Pappy on November 18, 2014, 09:31:27 am
Very nice work ,making something very nice from something that to most people looks like firewood. :) Love um. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Carson (CMB) on November 18, 2014, 11:21:00 pm
That is a very good-looking couple!  That sinew job looks so nice! The sinew wrapped handle looks great. Was that done with hide glue?
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: simson on November 20, 2014, 05:25:28 pm
That is a very good-looking couple!  That sinew job looks so nice! The sinew wrapped handle looks great. Was that done with hide glue?


Yes Carson at handle and tips are wrappings from backstrap sinew with hide glue. The pigments are rubbed in when the glue was still wet.


Again Thanks folks, I appreciate your comments!
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: soy on November 20, 2014, 07:28:28 pm
Outstanding! ;)
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Lehtis on November 21, 2014, 02:20:56 am
Nice work!
Title: Re: ERC from Erwin: making of MOM N' DAD (finished!)
Post by: Arrowind on November 22, 2014, 05:27:29 pm
BEAUTIFUL!  As usual.  NICE WORK!