Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: AH on November 03, 2014, 09:33:54 pm
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Nabbed this stave off of ebay for 40 bucks, thought it was a steal. Looks like pretty much an almost flawless stave, except for some drying checks in the side that are a little disconcerting (third pic). Anyway, Im gonna try to make another warbow from it. Pacific yew, 77", completely straight. The grain is nice and tight, around 40 rings to the inch ;D Shooting for pretty much any weight between 100-120 pounds.
I'll probably do a build-along (help along?) as I don't wan't to screw up such a nice stave...
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removing the bark
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working around one of the few pins
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finished debarking it. Laying out the bow's front profile. I'm going with 1.5" wide in the middle which continues in uniform width for about 10 inches as the handle, then starts tapering down to an inch 15" away from the tips. From that point they taper to 1/2" at the tips.
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the stave with one of my previous warbows
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Nice stave, I know nothing about these so I'll be keeping my eyes on this. Can't wait to see the rest! Patrick
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Hard to tell in the pictures but beware of bargain staves that have been sawed straight
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That looks like a medicine bow woods stave... Which means it won't be remotely seasoned. If you got it from Dave, don't start bending it for a good month or two. And as NewIndian said, check the grain. He likes to bandsaw everything.
Looks nice though, should be a good bow once it's dry!
Edit: By the way, those don't look like drying checks. It's hard to see from the photos, but based on where they are in the stave (drying checks are usually at the ends) and how that particular one looks, I'd say that's a wind shake. They can be bad news (which may be why the stave was so cheap?) as they tend to go right down to the core of the branch/trunk. Fill it with superglue before you carry on, and pray they don't go too deep.
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Roughed out the front profile with a hatchet, and started on the thickness taper. It's still pretty hefty.
The wind shakes, if that's what they are (which seems to be the case after some internet research and examining) seem to get tighter as I remove more wood, which is somewhat encouraging...im hoping they don't go very deep. There is, however, one side with a rather deep and large wind shake which im a bit worried about. I'll fill it up with superglue and hope I can just pull off what happened here: http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=47625.0
Regarding seasoning, the wood is definately dry. It's crisp, and according to the seller was seasoned for two years. (i hope)
the grain does run straight and true, which is also a relief.
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Yep, those are shakes. Glue and luck are your only options. If you can clamp the shake closed, do so and use a good 2 part epoxy. If you can't (using sensible force) then just fill with superglue. I had an ash bow that was FULL of them - all over the sides, through the belly and super deep. Some were clamped and epoxy filled, and some I superglued. Worked out ok in the end.
Edit: doh! Just realised you used that exact bow in your link!
Out of interest, was it medicine bow woods you got the stave from? "Burl Quilt" on eBay? If it was (and it does look like his) you're very lucky if it's truely seasoned. He sells them dry, but not seasoned. The time he says they've been drying for is usually rubbish, but you might have got lucky. He's a Russian roulette stave seller ;)
Anyway, it's looking very nice! Looking forward to seeing the finished bow!
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It looks like the sapwood is a near perfect thickness. Is there any reason that you butchered the outer ring so badly?
I know many yew bows seem to have the outer rings stepped through but it seems like a perfect ring is a better guarantee of soundness.
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The brown stuff is the cambium Pat. He's not touched the sapwood rings, just done a quick job of taking off most of the cambium so he can lay out a profile. I would imagine all of the remaining brown cambium will be removed as he continues.
That's what I do, anyway.
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You can clearly see actual shavings gouged out of the sapwood. A pristine ring looks much more polished and you are certainly not going to achieve it with a drawknife.
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Looks like that sapwood is around 1/2" which to me is too thick. If it's that thick everywhere you will run the risk of your outer limbs being mostly sapwood, which isn't horrible, but It will take more set and not look as good in my opinion. I haven't made a bow over 100#, so maybe I'm wrong in this case. All my yew bows are under 60#, and I go with 3/16-1/4" sapwood thickness
I worked a 5 year old yew stave, and after floor tiller I weighed it and kept an eye on it. It still dropped weight for another 2 months.
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It looks like the sapwood is a near perfect thickness. Is there any reason that you butchered the outer ring so badly?
I know many yew bows seem to have the outer rings stepped through but it seems like a perfect ring is a better guarantee of soundness.
I didn't violate any of the rings, I just took the bark off. It's not "butchered" although I guess I can see where you're getting that. Those brown marks are just bits of cambium that I haven't removed yet.
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Looks like that sapwood is around 1/2" which to me is too thick. If it's that thick everywhere you will run the risk of your outer limbs being mostly sapwood, which isn't horrible, but It will take more set and not look as good in my opinion. I haven't made a bow over 100#, so maybe I'm wrong in this case. All my yew bows are under 60#, and I go with 3/16-1/4" sapwood thickness
I worked a 5 year old yew stave, and after floor tiller I weighed it and kept an eye on it. It still dropped weight for another 2 months.
sapwood is about 1/4'' to 3/8'' in the thickest parts
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I know what the cambium and inner bark look like. I most definitely see ring violations. You can even see the removed shavings. Take a look at the stuff you've shaved off and look for white on the underside.
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Ok, my bad. That pic with it in your hand it's looks thicker.
It does look like some bad ring violations to me too, but in my experiences
with yew (8 bows), it doesn't matter, just doesn't look as good.
If I made a yew bow over 80#, i would be going for one continuous ring.
Del has posted many times to just peel the bark and let the cambium snap
off as you tiller. I finally did it last night, and it works awesome.
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I wish people would just leave the bark on >:(
It will pop off when you start flexing the stave of the tiller. you end up with a perfect back with zero work!
It even shows where the wood is bending most... it pops off there first! natures strain gauge!
Del
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Only works if you happen to have a stave with the perfect sapwood thickness. They're quite rare...
Even on this stave I'd reduce the sapwood. It may just be a personal preference, but much more than about 6mm is too thick in my opinion for a Warbow. Wants to be mostly heartwood as that's where all the power is.
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Del, I never messed with yew. But I just finished up a vine maple that I let the bark pop off of like that. Ended up leaving it on the last 6 or 7 inches. Looks really neat. Patrick
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I feel like letting the bark pop off would frighten the heck out of me on the tiller :o
I got the whole thing roughed out. I'll try to upload some pics tommorow. Now's the hard part--i need to find some way to tackle that nasty wind shake.
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I feel like letting the bark pop off would frighten the heck out of me on the tiller :o
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Yeah, that's part of the fun... it's character building >:D
Del
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I feel like letting the bark pop off would frighten the heck out of me on the tiller :o
I got the whole thing roughed out. I'll try to upload some pics tommorow. Now's the hard part--i need to find some way to tackle that nasty wind shake.
Don't sweat the shake. Two options:
1. If it will close up when you apply a clamp (remember to protect the wood as you do it) then use a good 2 part epoxy. Pack it in, clamp it up, no more shake.
2. If it's too big to clamp, or is refusing to close up under moderate pressure, simply fill with superglue.
The wind shake doesn't need to disappear - it just needs to be solid. If you can still see it, but it's well filled with glue and won't change if you squeeze it with a clamp, it's unlikely to cause any issues.
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To add to what Will says, heat the slow set epoxy with a hair dryer in a jar or foil dish to make it runny and you'll get deeper penetration to drizzle into the shake. Work quickly though because the heat will make it cure a lot faster.
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Well, life got in the way of uploading pictures earlier.
Still trying to figure out a way to get epoxy down the wind shake, it seems to go throught he entire limb :(
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Yikes. That doesn't look very nice.
On the plus side, that might just end up being removed as you tiller, but you're gonna want to secure it first. I'd go for superglue instead of epoxy on that. Clamp the bow so it's side-up, pour as much superglue as you can into the crack, all the way down, and make sure it's leaking out the other side as well. Then clamp the whole thing up with a few clamps or a long rubber band to maintain pressure. Let it go off, then see what you've got. It needs to sound good - tap the surrounding wood with a fingernail and take note of the sound. Then tap the glued up area and compare. If it sounds like something's moving when you tap it, or its thin and papery sounding, redo all the glue again.
If a large area like that isn't solid it may end up pulling away from the belly as the bow bends. Not good.
Your other option is to just plough through it until you hit solid wood, then make the best bow possible out of what remains.
If you go with option 2, leave the sapwood at the thickness it is already. If you manage to secure it with glue and it feels and looks solid, get that sapwood down to a sensible thickness and carry on!
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Epoxy won't do anything, it needs a good quality low viscosity cyanoacrylate (superglue) which will go in by capillary action.
Looking good.
Del
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here in germany we call this condition: Kernholzabspaltung (Corewoodsecession). there is a fault in the growth of the yew. usually you should not use such a stave for a bow.
i know, it's your only one etc...
and IF you wish to glue these peaces together, then you have to remove the remains from the cambium. it's the fluffy stuff which you can see against the light. to avoid unpleasant shear forces, you should use EA-40® Transparent Laminating Epoxy Adhesive.
cyanoacrylate (superglue) is not flexible enough!