Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Comancheria on November 16, 2014, 12:07:26 am
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OK, I have done enough reading to know:
1) I don't really need one
2) I can ruin wood (or my left hand) very easily
And 3) if I get one, it doesn't need to be a GF
But that having been said, if you were going to own only one hatchet for bow making, would you choose A) the GF tiny belt hatchet with 3/4 pound head and 10 inch handle, or B) the GF Carving Axe with 2 1/2 pound head and 14 inch handle?
Thanks,
Russ
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(Emoticon was a typo!)
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Honestly? go to a garage sale and pick up some old, rusted heads for cheap. you can easily make a handle and restore the head. You'd be surprised what you can find, i got a Hults Bruks hatchet head out of an old barn, which is now my #1 tool. Of course a gransfors is awesome quality and you can do whatever you want but buying the old stuff is a hell of a lot cheaper lol.
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I hear you, Zion. If I still lived in a large city, I would probably hit the garage and estate
Sales more often. What is your opinion with regard, not to the GB part of the question but to the very light head versus the 2 1/2 pound?
Best regards,
Russ
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I have the Small Forest Axe and love it. The size is perfect for me. The handle is long enough to be useful when camping, but short enough to use like a hatchet if I choke up on it. It seemed to be the most versatile of the sizes I tried. I didn't really "need" it either, but there's a certain pride of ownership and just plain fun using a really well made tool. I had looked at them at a store for a long time before I decided to buy it. The thing that convinced me was that the forger's initials stamped on the head are the same as mine.
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The small forest axe 100% - It is a thing of beauty and balance. Perfect weight for bow making. It will cut down the tree and then take it to floor tiller or further depending on how much you've used axes.
I've got the Hunter's Axe, the Small Forest and my latest addition the Wilderness Axe (Ray Mears signature axe). In a week or so the American Felling Axe is going to join my collection. For bow making it would always be the Small Forest i'd pick up.
I just love how they come sharp enough to shave with. This sharpness is so easy to maintain, the steel is just fabulous :)
As you might be able to guess I like Granfors axe.
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My most used hatchet is 1 1/4# and it could even be heavier.
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Thanks, everyone. Adam, I agree with your statement about pride of ownership.
Mike, I am a little surprised that your three acquisitions so far are so close to each other in head weight and handle length. (Of course, the American Felling Axe will be the Big Kahuna)!
I am also surprised at both your choices of the SFA for bow making. I had thought more of a broad-bitted "carving" axe. But I will look long and hard at it now.
I use axes for firewood and have been thinking along the lines of:
Tiny Belt Hatchet
Large Carving Axe
Small Forest Axe OR Carpenter's Axe
Scandinavian Forest Axe
But I was really thinking of the first two for bows. I know a couple of folks on previous threads have opted for the large carving axe. Sounds like from what both of you and now David say, the Tiny Belt hatchet would only be suitable for scraping and finishing.
Best regards,
Russ
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I bought a cheap Home Depot hatchet and actually hated it. I now have several axes, and even I made my own and love it. Long story. But definitely buy quality. Almost any older hatchet/axe head is more comparable to better quality brands these days, so flea market axes are a good bet.
But the machete does the real bow work around here.
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I have the 2 1/2# carving axe and I love it. But my forearm will tire and fatigue while using it because I don't use it often enough to keep that set of muscles conditioned for that specific task. I think a lighter axe might be nice to have also. I say get both, one for your birthday and one for christmas.
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Badger,
Do you primarily chop while holding the handle or chocke up on it with your fingers on the steel, behind the bit?
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I prefer the Scandinavian forest axe. Haft is a little longer with little difference in head weight. Makes for much easier two handed use.
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I never used my cheap hardware store hatchet, it felt clumsy and no matter how nice an edge I gave it it just wasn't comfortable roughing a stave.
For about a week I had access to a grand uncle's handmade axe with a cocobolo/hickory/Osage handle, beautiful piece of work he said he made in his long-ago prime, and that thing made roughing the blank the most enjoyable part of the process for that week.
Now I use a machete, specifically a kukri, and while it doesn't hog wood like that masterpiece it is versatile and I use if for scraping.
Don't pass up an old reliable thing, they're still around becaus they're worthwhile.
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I have the carpenters hatchet. in my opinion all cheap hatchets are garbage, once you use one from these guys you will never buy anything else. While it was expensive I bought it 15 years ago and I don't think I'll buy another one for the rest of my life. the quality of steel is second to none and hold the edge forever. my band saw broke a few months ago and with this hatchet I'm considering not even get another one my rough out time seems to be the same
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Comancheria, While doing finer work I choke up on it. My forearm blows up like a balloon and gets rock hard after about 20 minutes with it. I tend now to alternate it with other tools. I think most of the fatique sets in while reducing a stave using the outer part of the grip. By the time I get to the finer work my arm is pretty well tired out.
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They aren't really that close to each other. ;) The Hunter's axe was a present. Seriously though the Small Forest is superb. I don't think the smaller hatchets are really suitable. Sure they would work but you have way more options with the bigger tools.
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Neither....I would buy this one http://www.gransforsbruk.com/en/products/forest-axes/gransfors-outdoor-axe/
Too bad I dont really need one....I have a Hultafors (http://www.hultafors.co.uk/products/cutting/axes/trekking-axes/hatchet/) and a tiny Fiskars (X5), both awesome axes:-)
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For me it's all about the angle of the bevel grind on the cutting edge. With a bevel on both sides like a normal "hatchet" it requires a steeper angle to the wood to cut making it good for felling or chopping but for shaping I want a cutting edge that has a bevel on one side only and flat on the other like a hewing axe for squaring up logs. My old plumb is heavy and allows me to choke up on the head and use it similar to a plane by pushing instead of chopping. You can't do that with a double bevel hatchet. Then there's curved edge blades or straight edge blades................
Apparently with the Gransfors Bruks carving axe you can select how you want it beveled, double, right or left. but $350?? :o :o
I bought my plumb carpenters axe in yer common antique mall for $20 and the steel is so good, I've only had to hone the edge twice in the 6 years I've had it.
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my two cents. Walmart on line has a keen kutter like broad axe on their site or had a few months past its new and has a single bevel. I use a keen kutter flea market special but would love a little less weight around 1¼ lb. Cant find the perfect hatchet with a single bevel.
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I went berserk and ordered the Scandinavian Forest Axe, the Wildlife Hatchet and the Swedish Carving Axe--pray for me!😋
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I went berserk and ordered the Scandinavian Forest Axe, the Wildlife Hatchet and the Swedish Carving Axe--pray for me!😋
Good man! I bet you aren't disappointed when they turn up! By the way it's a dangerous collection to start......
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I have the GB swedish carving axe. It is a wonderful tool and cuts through wood like butter. I use it to rough out all my staves.
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Nice! You'll enjoy them.
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I am brand new to the Gransfors Bruks brand, and new to bowmaking, and Weylin when you say the GB swedish carving axe, are you talking about the one that has the curved head with the special bevel either with a straight bevel on the left or the right side? And if I am understanding everyone here correctly that allows you to make cuts easier without having to angle your hatchet too steep into the wood? I appreciate everyone's expertise and hope my naiveté doesn't offend anyone here ;D
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Tlow13: no one here will find your questions offensive! This is the nicest group of experts who ever counseled a novice--I know! Not answering for Weylin, but I suspect that is the axe he is talking about--with a 2 pound, wide head. If so, it may have either the bevel for right or left handers OR a double bevel. That is what I got. I know it is a little harder to carve wood in a straight line, but I opted for the greater versatility and simplicity.
Best regards,
Russ
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Thanks Russ, you answered my question, and I hope your bowmaking ventures are going well in Comancheria. I have recently been reading the book The Empire of the Summer Moon, which is all about the Comanches in Texas and how they held out against America's western push into their lands (which I'm sure you know all about), and how amazing they were with the bow and on a horse, a truly fascinating culture.
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Well, so far my bow making is all in my head! I have A seven-dollar, straight-grained red oak board from Home Despot leaning against the garage wall, awaitimg the arrival of the last of my tools. That sucker is quarter sawn, so I will back it, either with drywall tape, sinew, or maybe cast iron.😊
Russ
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That sucker is quarter sawn, so I will back it, either with drywall tape, sinew, or maybe cast iron.
Wait, what? Lol, I'd like to hear about this cast iron stuff.
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David,
I am so paranoid about making an unbacked first bow, I would probably use titanium if it weren't so darned expensive.
As for the Comanche, while I have the utmost respect for them--and for all Indian cultures--I am somewhat put off by the prevalent white man's myth that they were somehow morally superior to more "advanced" cultures. They were human and they did what they had to do to survive. Life was short and cruel to them and they could be brutally cruel to each other. When some of the northern tribes got metal heads from the French, they used them in the attempted genocide of less fortunate groups. Ah, but then, some of them got The horse from the Spanish--and it was payback time at the OK Corral! As for being "green" and conscious of the environment, well, maybe so in some instances, but they also drove whole herds of Bison over cliffs and set fire to the prairie. Some--and the Comanche were notorious in this respect--tortured their enemies and then cut out their tongues to mute their screams, when it was time to get some sleep. And no doubt they were tortured by the white man as well. So they shared all aspects of humanity with us--including (and this is an opinion of mine that may not be popular) the basic tendency of human beings to engage in war and violence. I admire them for being no less and no more than human--and for being no-nonsense about survival in a cruel world.
And on that cheerful note...😃
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I have A seven-dollar, straight-grained red oak board from Home Despot leaning against the garage wall, awaitimg the arrival of the last of my tools. That sucker is quarter sawn, so I will back it, either with drywall tape, sinew, or maybe cast iron
If it's perfectly quarter sawn and the grain is straight down all 4 sides and you are using the edge of the rings as the back and belly surface, you don't need a backing at all (especially drywall tape). If you feel the need to back it use rawhide. If you're working on a board, you don't need a hatchet (although it would work) you need a nice little hand plane and a rasp for the grip area if your making a stiff handle....boards are different than staves where you may have to follow an undulating back on a stave, a plane won't work so good. On a board, all your surfaces are going to be nice smooth and flat taper on all sides so a hand plane or block plane would work good.
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Rand,
Good to know. I don't think it is perfect, but it is close. Tomihama in his book "Backyard Bowyer" describes a 70" red oak board bow 1.5 " wide with a glue on handle. Such a "pattern" bow is very attractive to a beginner like me. The author also says he prefers quarter-sawn boards--which I found surprising. I do not intend to use the hatchet, but admittedly, I did not think of being able to use a plane on squared off wood. Duhh. And it may be the one item of bow-making equipment (other than a bandsaw) which I have not bought.
I have been turned off that author's use of drywall tape as it is not primitive, and also it's as ugly as
sin. So I will take your advice and carve out a self bow and see what happens and back it--with rawhide--if necessary.
But no, the GB axes were not for that--rather, the new hobby of bow making simply provided me with an excuse to buy a GB axe--and then another--and another. 😊
Best regards,
Russ
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Russ, the backyard bowyer while certainly well versed in pvc pipe bows he's by no means an expert in wood / primitive / traditional bows, you can take that for what it's worth, have fun building
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Rand,
You are right of course about the steeper angle--and after I play with it a while, I may find I need another one with the flat bevel for right handers. 😊. You are also correct about the three options--but the price is $179--although some sites jack that way up.
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Bubby,
Yeah, I picked up on that! This first board will be no more than practice with the tools, sing his "pyramid" pattern. I will back it (assuming I ever get it floor tillered) with either rawhide or sinew, and after seeing the great salmon skin backing, I will use the skins of some of our Texas fish.
Russ
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Exhuming this thread from a well-deserved grave in order to give my initial reaction to the arrival of the three GB axes I ordered, and I will not continue it further so as not to extend a bow-related subject to an axe review. Suffice it to say I took delivery of: (1) the Scandinavian Forest Axe, (3) the Large Swedish Carving Axe, and (3) the Wildlife Hatchet. The largest of the three will have little to do with bowyering--although the smaller two, I will use (very carefully) for stave reduction.
The first thing I will say is that they are TINY. I am used to big old honking 'Murkin Axes, like my Grandfather's huge 4 pound-head felling axe. I do not believe any of the three weighs as much as my farrier's rasp. Moreover, I did not picture how short a 25 inch handle is, let alone a 14 incher. The second thing I will say is that they are indeed addictive. I confess I ordered the 10 inch mini-hatchet yesterday and am looking at the American Felling Axe and the Small Forest jobbie. Can I justify the expense? No way. But I have two grandsons and a granddaughter who just hit 15, 15, and 14 who will need an axe shortly. Until then...😊
Also, I really like the look of their broad axes and adzes-- I mean what the heck? If I were to build the Wife a log cabin with a sod roof, we can take out a home equity loan on this too-big house, default on the loan, and I can use the cash to buy some Yew and Osage bow staves, a decade's supply of firewater, and, oh yes, more axes!
Best regards,
Russ
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Russ - me and you think along the same lines!! Glad you like your axes :)
A friend of mine needed a 2 1/2 foot diameter ash taking down on his land. Yesterday we felled it using the American felling axes (one each). Pure joy compared to noisy,smelly chainsaws :)
Now we have enough perfectly straight wood for hundreds and hundreds of arrows and i'm stocked up with firewood for the winter. :)
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Mike,
The first job for the wildlife hatchet was harvesting several pieces of River cane--at least I THINK it was River cane. Not a 40 inch ash tree, but you gotta start somewhere! I have a whole lot of homework to do--both with the local wetlands biologist and in book and Internet researh--then will no doubt have lots of questions about cane arrows. They seem to be about the only natural materials in my area except possibly for Youpon. I have 360 acres of that stuff and access to about a million more acres--if I had the guts to sneak onto the King Ranch. 😊
Best regards,
Russ