Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: yew hunter on February 07, 2015, 10:53:55 pm
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I have a question....how do you straighten an 80+ inch yew wood stave? I am interested in finding, and making yew staves on the mid coast of british columbia. even the straightest yew i have found have some twist to some degree, do you start making a bow before you straighten it, or do you straighten the stave first? the staves on the internet for sale i've seen seem impossibly straight and makes me wonder if they have been straightened for the purpose of selling, some even have notch marks left on them where you would hold it in a jig.
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Leave the problem to the bowyer...
Del
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Most of the yew staves you see on the internet for sale are cut both sides, or one side. That's why they're so "straight."
As far as heat correcting goes, a stave is too big. Heat correction (if necessary) happens well into the tillering process.
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thanks for the reply. I have been studying the yew long bow stave for 8 months now, the reason being is the value. I work in the logging industry on northern vancouver island and yew is considered by the large logging companies and ministry of forests as "waste" or "byproduct" and is just burned in large slash piles because it has no merchantable value. It does however seem to have a high value to bow makers and specialist wood workers.
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for years i have been burning yew to heat the house and do minor wood working projects, and sell a little on the side for yew lumber. 8 months ago someone told me that people use yew to build bows and ive been chasing yew staves ever since. The prices that people pay for pristine yew staves seems unbelievable, the problem i have is that i have no idea how to build a bow and i have more straight 80+ inch yew than i know what to do with. I have hand split 40 to 50 yew staves but out of all those staves only 4 or 5 look like the ones for sale on the net, yet they all have clean faces and "appeared" to be straight grain once you hand split the invisible twist shows its self some worse than others. Are twisted staves firewood or can they be straightened? It becomes evident when you hand split how you would "violate" the grain structure when using a band saw because it would be impossible to see that twist while sawing.From studying the net and the bowyers bible steam is used to straighten the grain, I was just wondering if you could straighten the grain in stave form then clean it up with a band saw to reduce wieght for shipping.
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Unless they are crazy twisted you can straighten them like Adam said. You can also make some fine, laminated yew boys if you quarter saw the twisted ones into boards. I'd be interested in some small boards.
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IMO anything less than 45 degrees twist over the length of the stave does matter in the slightest.
Del
BTW. Feel free to ship me samples for appraisal ;) O:)
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Hey. People who hunt yew just to make money off bowyers and know nothing about it is pretty weak.
The same kind of guys who cut every single yew tree in site without knowing which ones will make a bow. I know you work in the logging industry and a disgusting amount of yew is wasted on burn piles and I also know certain people also charge ludicrous amounts of money for yew staves. To me both these situations are lame.
Non bowyers who come here looking for advice on how to make money off bowyers doesn't sit well with me. I apologize if I'm reading into this too much.
If your looking for an "unbelievable" pay check from "pristine" yew, you better know what your selling and how to handle it properly
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I would suggest that you build a handful of bows. Get an idea of what it takes, and what type of wood you want to look for. Then you can start identifying good quality yew and differentiating between it and the stuff that goes into the burn pile. What you want to do with the wood after you get some knowledge is up to you. I know I would l like to see the prices of yew staves go down as well as the quality of the staves increasing.
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Thanks for the reply wizardgoat and falcon. I didn't intend to come across as lame, I was basically trying to find the best way to prepare a yew stave for sale and use. I have read the bowyers bible, the traditional bowyers encyclopedia, the best book i have though is Teaching the bow to bend, it is much better with the instruction, but none seem to address the problem of twist in a yew log which is why i tried this forum. I do wonder if the reason yew staves are so expensive is due to the experience required to make the stave and then add in the lack of access to yew, it would be hard to buy/sell. I am not looking to make a huge pay cheque by selling expensive walking sticks to bowyers, I do however have access to a resource of yew that nobody seems to want to deal with and would rather just burn it in slash piles than try to do something with it. All my yew comes from salvage in the area where i live/work. I am also working on a bow from some of already straight/clear yew - it is not easy. As for my twisted yew i'll just keep working on the problem.
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Depends how its twisted. Spiral grain, like a propeller, is undesirable but manageable. Snakey staves are less popular, but highly valued by some, myself included.
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As Yew Hunter lives up Island from me I invited him down to look at my bows and maybe give him some hints(as much as I can) as to what to look for when he's hunting yew. He had a bunch of yew in his truck that I would have killed for. I got two staves and a chunk from him. I think(with luck) there are 4, maybe 5 bows in the staves and maybe another two in the chunk. The chunk is twisted about 45 degrees in it's length but I think I can deal with it. There should be a bunch of heartwood that I can cut into lams. I'm pretty pleased. He was being way to critical of his wood. What he thought was waste or marginal was primo wood. At least to my eyes. A good source.
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I'm jealous
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I do like a happy ending :laugh:
Del
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I respect what you are trying to do. I see nothing wrong with looking for sources of income. I am always looking for good sources for yew and it does sound like you are trying to educate yourself on what we use.
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When you're ready to share, hit me up :D
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Thanks for the replies, they are all valuable. My meeting with DC was very informative, I got some good advice. As for the twist, he basically told me to leave it alone. A bowyer would like to know the twist is there before he/she starts working it, and if its to twisted it still makes good carving wood or fire wood. I was very surprised to see his bows because of the amount of defect in the wood he works around, such as pins, twist, and knots. If I ever do sell a bow stave i hope to be able to say for certain it will make a bow.
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These are the defects YH is referring to
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I have never split yew before, but the bow wood I use rarely splits straight if I start from one end of the log so I often saw it. I am not so sure that all woods have the same tendency to "follow the grain". some follow quite well, while with others the split tends to wander off especially around knots. If bowyers have been having success with staves that are ripped, then that might be an indication that the logs yielding poor staves with an uncontrolled split, may be usable if splits can be controlled. Different splitting techniques may help control the split better. splitting or riving with a froe was a craft of its own back in the day.
http://www.craftsofnj.org/index.php/froes-by-hank-allen
thanks for doing your research with your intended market, hopefully you can produce a quality product. I know that I would like to get my hands on some good yew someday. With all that yew going into the woodstove, I would think that you have an opportunity to learn more about splitting yew than most guys would ever consider trying with that one piece that they bought.
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I've been using froes this year to split firewood - lovely tool to use. Don't have access to one big enough for a 4" log but I've come to love my two Husqvana twisted wedges.
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If those are defects, please send to me for disposal!
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Every time i come across a yew log over 40 inches long I get out my axe head, 3lb mallet, and a bag full of fallers wedges and see how it follows the grain as it splits. That in itself is an interesting passtime trying to guess how its going to split out, and watching it "walk around knots" no two logs seem to be the same.
I think it was in bowyers bible that talked about grain. I used to think about grain in only a two dimensional way - only growth ring count or tight or loose grain. I now see the grain as "straws in a tube" and as i see it a bowyer wants the straws in the bow complete from tip to tip, or else your backing it with something. The way I see the yew split by hand it appears to me it would be kind of a crap shoot to use a band saw and hope to not violate the grain structure. Thats why I thought you would hand split, straighten, then saw after you knew exactly how the grain ran in the wood. I will look into using a froe.
DC's bows have alot of character - what I thought was defective wood in the yew I have been throwing away may not be so defective. I do look at it a little differently now.
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Something that might be worth noting is that while following the grain can be crucial in many woods, with yew you can very often violate it a huge amount with no problem. I've got heavy yew warbows that I made from twisty, bendy staves that I just pretended were dead straight. The grain swirls all over the place in some areas, and it doesn't affect the bow in the slightest.
I don't know how many other woods allow this but yew certainly does. The only time I straighten a yew stave is if I can't realistically fit a straight line to it without it falling off the side. Sometimes I'll be forced to make a layout that has some curves if there are big knots or the grain is worryingly crazy, but generally you can plough through snakey yew and not worry.
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Thanks for the replies. There is alot more to building a bow than I thought 10 months or so ago.... not your average wood working project.
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It might also be worth noting that yew has interlocking grain, which means it not only has spiral grain, but alternates the direction of the spiral. This could make splitting problematic and not always the best approach.
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Thanks for the replies. There is alot more to building a bow than I thought 10 months or so ago.... not your average wood working project.
Hi yew hunter. I have sent you a private message. Thanks.
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Thanks for the replies. There is alot more to building a bow than I thought 10 months or so ago.... not your average wood working project.
Amen!
We see a few newbies who think you can do it all by numbers ::)
Del
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I'm not a fan of heat except on none moveing parts ( handle,tips) About 15 years ago I started hading reflex to my staves. I've also hacheted the stave down to bow fourm and took our twists out green. No heat involed.
Before anyone says he's just never heated limbs to know the difference.. I've made more fire wood way more than I'd like to tell you. From heating limbs.
Say what you'd like but if you really shoot and use a bow( a limb heated bow). I'll never out last a bow that never been heated. Not saying you can make nice heat make bows 1000's built every year.
I just don't heat limbs unless I have to. Which is never it I can work around it.
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Thanks for the reply crooketarrow. From all the info I have gathered about collecting and processing yew staves, I have learned that a bowyer wants a stave that has not been modified in any way, shape, or form. I have also recently learned that if you dont take your time while trying to make a yew bow you end up heating the house with it :-[
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I'm not a fan of heat except on none moveing parts ( handle,tips) About 15 years ago I started hading reflex to my staves. I've also hacheted the stave down to bow fourm and took our twists out green. No heat involed.
Before anyone says he's just never heated limbs to know the difference.. I've made more fire wood way more than I'd like to tell you. From heating limbs.
Say what you'd like but if you really shoot and use a bow( a limb heated bow). I'll never out last a bow that never been heated. Not saying you can make nice heat make bows 1000's built every year.
I just don't heat limbs unless I have to. Which is never it I can work around it.
That is your opinion but heat has been used on bow wood for thousands of years so that says something
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This is all fine and dandy, but tell me, can someone send some to me here in Australia?...........please! I'm even happy to pay!!!! :D
You really burn Yew? I cant believe that............what a waste.
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Yes 90 percent of the yew logged around these parts is burned in either large slash piles or fire places, it is a huge waste. The reason for it is because the logging companies around here are only interested in High volume low quality to supply large markets, you make more money that way. Yew is very low volume with lots of defect in the product but has potential to be very high quality - something that the logging outfits here would rather burn.
12 years ago I paid $2400.00 for a plane ride to aus to do the east coast back packer thing for 6 weeks I couldnt imagine how much it would cost to ship yew.
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Hence my pain,Yew Hunter.....so alas, I will pay. But I wont burn it! :)