Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Andrea S on March 10, 2015, 01:46:57 am
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Hello all! I've started this thread to document my first solo bow building adventure. I picked up a nice hickory board the day I bought my spring turkey and black bear tags, which I hope will give this bow some good mojo.
I've been using this build-along (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=125;t=002064) as a guide, with the recommendation that I start my pyramid at 2" wide with hickory. Ultimately I'm looking for a 40# draw at 26.5". I will likely do a silk tie backing as well.
I've discovered a couple things so far, one being that I'm not terribly accurate with a jigsaw, and the other being that I definitely need to invest in a drawknife. I also think that the initial limb thickness of 15/32 is a bit much (giving the limbs a very gentle test-wiggle seems to indicate this).
With the surforn workout, I may be able to draw a 50# bow by the time I'm finished!
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Looks like a good start for your first bow. There's always a learning curve with hand tools or power tools. If you cut outside your lines you will always have a little fudge room. Is your hickory board riff cut or quarter sawn?
With either one you don't need a backing. Cloth backings are a waste of time in my opinion. If you have to back use wood, bamboo, raw hide, or sinew. Make sure you round out all your corners before tillering. Make your belly limbs as flat and even thickness as you can. Tiny variations and dips in thickness can cause hinges. cheers fiddler4
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I really like hickory, but it sure isn't easy rasping it. If you plan on making more bows, I'd suggest picking up a farrier's rasp. They are great for roughing in the bow and take off wood like you wouldn't believe.
Looking good!
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I second that farriers rasp is a mean piece of steel takes off wood like butter. To think I did 3 bows in the beginning with one of those little 4 sided rasps. What a difference the right tools make.
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Looks like you are ending up with all heartwood. You'll hear mixed opinions on Hickory heartwood.
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Farriers rasp, noted! The surform is definitely slow once it's working on a smoother surface. I was not trying to go for heartwood but I dug through a massive pile of hickory at the only specialry lumber place around and heartwood was all I could get with a straight grain. Enough people said they'd made serviceable bows with it that I'm not terribly worried. I have a couple red oak boards as backup, as well.
Thanks for all the pointers, guys!
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Good luck with the project. Definitely think about heat treating that hickory board. It will make a big difference.
Try to find someone in your area to meet up with and get some one on one time, it makes all the difference.
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You have the beginnings of a potentially great bow there. Just take it slow and steady whatever tools you use and keep an eye on the poundage. Ask questions when you have them and the crew here will be happy to provide some options. That's an interesting approach to the overlay reflex; I have not seen that. Good luck!
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I have been on here for only 3 years I think you are the second or third gal thats pursuing bow building. Looking forward to what transpires. Sometimes power tools can be intimidating but with practice you will be a pro in no time.. ;) Sometimes hand tools are a Bowyers best friend. I rasp out and hand saw my risers.
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You are doing great so far. Just flatten up the uneven cuts with a a rasp or somehow. Make sure it is a straight line fade to tip for the pyramid design. If you loose 1/4 in on the width it will be ok for a 40 lb. don't forget to round the edges with file and sandpaper before tillering. If you have linen fabric it will work for backing. Plus it will match on both limbs. But silk ties are good idea if you want. Feel free to keep asking questions about tiller and other things. Most of all don't get frustrated and give up. You have great mentors at your fingertips.
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When u glued the handle on did u leave an "island" on the belly wood? I couldn't tell from the pic and where the clamp sat.
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Thanks for the input and encouragement, guys. I'm considering backing for two reasons, the first being a little extra insurance against imperfections, and the second for practice when I end up doing my Osage bow. I'm going to try rainbow trout skin over the silk this time (because I have a lot of it in my freezer at the moment) and on my Osage bow I'll be using brown trout skin or a combo of brown trout and pike skin - partly for the look, partly for the function, partly for the predator mojo. If you've ever caught a 'hangry' brown or pike, you know what I mean!
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Blaflair2, I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I'm guessing you're asking if the taper doesn't just start at the handle piece? It's hard to tell but the hickory piece is full thickness on the handle and the fade continues from there.
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I couldn't see in the pics. Not everyone remembers that sometimes. Should make ya some meat once ya finish her up
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looking good,, get that bow to bending so we can really give you alot of input,, :)
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Thanks for the input and encouragement, guys. I'm considering backing for two reasons, the first being a little extra insurance against imperfections, and the second for practice when I end up doing my Osage bow. I'm going to try rainbow trout skin over the silk this time (because I have a lot of it in my freezer at the moment) and on my Osage bow I'll be using brown trout skin or a combo of brown trout and pike skin - partly for the look, partly for the function, partly for the predator mojo. If you've ever caught a 'hangry' brown or pike, you know what I mean!
"Hangry" pike mojo....slippin' thru the woods, striking with sharp teeth, merciless predation. I can get behind that!
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Thanks for the input and encouragement, guys. I'm considering backing for two reasons, the first being a little extra insurance against imperfections, and the second for practice when I end up doing my Osage bow. I'm going to try rainbow trout skin over the silk this time (because I have a lot of it in my freezer at the moment) and on my Osage bow I'll be using brown trout skin or a combo of brown trout and pike skin - partly for the look, partly for the function, partly for the predator mojo. If you've ever caught a 'hangry' brown or pike, you know what I mean!
"Hangry" pike mojo....slippin' thru the woods, striking with sharp teeth, merciless predation. I can get behind that!
I also like the idea..,but sadly pikeskin dont keep the pretty pattern well.i have tried numerous times and the best i got was a drab dull greenish color.
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Very nice so far. Looks like you are on your way. When you get to using your trout skins remember they are paper thin. You might try soaking them in glycerin to keep the colors. I haven't done this yet but I've had beautiful fish skins turn grey when air dried. Patrick
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Got 'er to the bendy stage today! Obviously one limb is a little more limber (ha, ha) than the other. I think it's an overall width issue (according to my machinists calipers), thickness is pretty even overall, but possibly the fade is a little too fat on the one side. After that, it's gizmo time!
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See that yellow tape in the background, you left limb is bending way too much under that tape, same on the right limb. Better make a tillering gizmo before you go further.
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Getting closer! Sorry about the crap in the background, I'll get something better worked out today some time so it's easier to see. I'm aiming for 40-45lbs @ 27". My bucket has 37lbs of scrap stock in it.
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Looking good Andrea. I've got a feeling that yours is gonna come out better than mine. :)
Best of luck!
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Looking a little hingy both spots that eric mentioned, did you get a gizmo or even just a six inch straight edge, i think you will find a big gap in both limbs where it looks like a little hump, don't take anymore off in those spots till you get the rest bending
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I'm guessing about mid limb on the left and a foot out from the fade on the right
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Okay, once more, with feeling!
... and a better backdrop and some work with the gizmo.
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Here's one with 40lbs on. Stretched a second string from tip to tip just for reference.
Now that it's bending much more evenly, should I continue to take it down to target weight by thinning the limbs or reducing their width (since it's a pyramid bow)?
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file some nock grooves in it and go to a low brace say 3"
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That picture looked terrible. Try this one instead.
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Yes,low brace! First I would bend it on the floor because your outer limbs need to bend so you don't stress the inners.
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Floor tiller
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Also,ditch that long string and keep it as short as possible on the tree.just my thoughts though.
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Looks good so far!
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Woohoo! Seems like I still have one limb bending more than the other.
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Well you k ow what to do get the gizmo and don't go past 15" or so till you get the tiller right your doing great
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Gizmo says she's looking pretty good. This is 29.5 lbs @ 15", so I'm getting fairly close, right?
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Andrea, it looks good but it looks like you need to get near handle wood bending.
Also the handle itself seems to be pretty large in the last photo but not in the previous ones. Could be my eyes are playing tricks on me.
Typically my handles are 4 inches and the fade outs are 1.5-2 inches.
I put a dark pencil mark and look to get the limbs to start bending right there.
Jawge
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We've all seen what near handle bending does to a pyramid from a board. That step in for the handle just doesn't have the support for that.
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Looking good!if any thing a bit flat on the left mid to outer and a little flat on the right inner limb.i would suggest studying the braced profile as it will speak volumes as to how it will look at full draw.sight down the limbs, flip 180 and look from all angles.anyways that's how I do it.set will also tell the tale as to how the wood is holding up, where's it's working to hard or not enough.maybe post a unbraced profile and get someone to take a shot of you drawing by hand.
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I'd get the fades working just a little more but i agree with Pat, i don't go full compass on pyramids
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Right now your gonna come in about 60# can you put 40# of sand in that bucket and I'd go to 6" brace
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You are doing well
I agree with bubby , get a good brace height and add some weight lets see it then
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You are doing well
I agree with bubby , get a good brace height and add some weight lets see it then
+1
Better than my first board bow at that stage! Patrick
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One limb is definitely bending more than the other, but the limb that's bending less is bending more evenly.
The bow is at work, and at home, I'm busy with the heat gun prepping some garden stake arrows! Primitive archery is a great pursuit for anyone who loves obsessive levels of tedium.
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You still have that hinge in the left limb. You have about a foot of wood from the fade to the hinge that isn't moving much.
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You still have that hinge in the left limb. You have about a foot of wood from the fade to the hinge that isn't moving much.
My thoughts exactly, but I can't see it well on my smartphone. Patrick
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Yup get that inner third working on the left limb
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If I were you, I wouldent hang a bucket from the sting either. That keeps it at full draw for too long and will just degrade the wood unnecessarily. Once you get this close, I would hold the bow in your hand and draw it and get someone to take a picture of it while its being drawn. Then you can get a better sense of how the bow feels in your hand.
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How did it look with the gismo?
If it was good then it is time to stop using that bucket of weight and get to shooting it at a short draw and only pulling it by hand to see what is going on!
almost there!!!!!!
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Looking good, what Cody and Guy said on hand drawing and see how it feels and looks. :)
Pappy
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Roughed in the handle today.
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Top fade is still stiff hows the draw weight?
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Your doing great by the way ;) ;D
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X 2 on what bubby said. The little flip at the tips looks nice. Are you getting close to your draw weight?
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Andrea, bow looks good.
I agree that the right limb is bending well. The left limb needs to bend near the handle. Looks like about 12 inches is not bending at all.
Mark a nice dark pencil line where you want the bending to start which should be right at the end of the fade and keep removing wood a little at a time until it does. You should now be using a scraper-like tool.
Been to my site?
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html
Jawge
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I have no helpful advice but i want to say great progress and very impressive so far...
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Great job so far!
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Welp, after working on that upper limb, I'm at my target weight/draw. I took the picture here as quick as I could to avoid over-stressing the limbs. The handle needs a lot of work to be comfy and shoot well, but after putting a few test arrows through it - dang! This bow sure packs a wallop!
After I get the handle taken care of and some finish work done, I'll sucker someone into taking a full draw picture again. Didn't have anyone available today.
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Wow! Great job!
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There it is, looks spot on from here, congrats.
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Can't wait to see her all dressed up nice job
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Nicely done, congratulations!
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Very very nice!
I wish my first looked as good as this baby.
Tell use the truth, your already thinking about your next bow build, aren't you?
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Very nice! Congratulations. Jawge
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Looks awesome!
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Sweet !
I could tell you had it in ya, and did you ever deliver !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Looking good. Nice work!
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Well done, tiller looks good to me! You might want to shoot several arrows through it before you do all of the finish work. Can't wait to see it all dressed up! Patrick
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Great work! That will get the job done for sure.
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Looks like you got that bow coming around quite nicely. Great job!
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Can I say how much I love, love, love how this bow shoots? It's a beast. My fiance (compound guy) is dying to shoot it over a chrono. My old aluminum arrows from my practice bow (Rudderbows purchase) tune like crap through this one though.... so while I put the finishing touches on the bow, a mess of arrows are slowly taking shape. Dogwood I harvested and garden stake bamboo - I'm glad I have a place I can go (this forum) where I'm not the only one who finds the below picture oddly satisfying.
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Very nice, I hope you get your arrows lined out! I would love to see your progress on them as well. Patrick
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You go girl !!
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Andrea, I get a little squeamish with others shooting my bows especially if they are compounders. Jawge
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Great looking bow there. It looks like you are going to be a busy gal. Can't wait to see that bow finished :)
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Good job !
Just make sure your bf dont overdraw the bow!!! It is YOUR bow made to YOUR drawlenght!
It can be seriously degraded or damaged even if its just an inch or two beyond what its made for.
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Got a little crazy with trout skins today! Funny story, I had enough in the freezer to get er almost done, but I was just shy on the section near the handle. My guy comes home from rifle shooting and says, "Let's go have a beer at the brewery!" I'm all in, of course, but with one caveat - "You have to let me throw ten drifts at my spot on the East Gallatin." I have to limit my number of casts because I have a real problem with last cast syndrome; I'll keep fishing until it's so dark I can't see, if you let me.
Well, drift number five or six, and it's fish on! Nice gorgeous hen rainbow, plenty big enough to get the wide spot at the fades. Now, I've had a lot of people make negative comments about using trout skin (it loses all its color, blah blah) but not much else to back it up. From what I can see, rainbow trout works awesome. The plan is to do a red/gray silk thread wrap at each overlap to reinforce and dress them up a bit. Handle will be gray leather.
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Just came over your thread here, Andrea.
That's great to have not only old bearded guys here, Hahaha. Not much girls here ...
But all my respect you done a great job on this bow. Can't wait to see it done completely dressed up.
Good luck!
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looks great and the silk thread is a great choice, i'm interested to see how the trout holds up
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Sweet !
Good on ya for getting the story to go with it too
No end to what you can do with that kind of go to it attitude
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Looks great I hope that color does stay the skins are awesome.
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Are those fresh skins? not dried? not salted? not tanned?
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Those skins were fresh. All of them had been frozen, with the exception of the one nearest to the handle that I caught about two hours before I glued it on. Sneaky trick from my taxidermist fiance, if you catch and eat fish and save the skins up until you need them, take the skin and flesh it and fill a plastic baggie with water and drop them in and freeze them that way - then they can't get freezer-burnt.
I stained the wood with steel wool and vinegar mix yesterday, so tonight she should be ready to seal. I want to get some shooting in before Saturday (I have a bunch of arrows to tune and finish) so I need a sealant that will work over fish skins, and dry fast. I'm seriously considering the armor all/tru oil combo, but other suggestions would be appreciated.
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Andrea,
Be sure they are dry before sealing. Don't rush it.
The moisture has to go somewhere. Probably out the belly making it check.
Jawge
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Very cool - you sound like a lot of fun, your guy is lucky to have you. Look forward to seeing it all done.
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Andrea,
Be sure they are dry before sealing. Don't rush it.
The moisture has to go somewhere. Probably out the belly making it check.
Jawge
Yes please wait till you have your arrows are done and a few other chores before you seal that moister in and , well just not good , been there done that!
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Do not....repeat...DO NOT use silk to blend in the skin butt joints.
That is, unless it is fly tying silk! >:D
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One step ahead of you! ;)
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Oh pish posh, stop the modesty. You are a woman, you are miles ahead of me!
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Those skins look great! I hope for your sake they don't loose their color when they dry out. It will take a good week to dry after your glue up. Maybe even more than that. Like said before, don't rush it after the glue up. Good luck and keep posting pics, this has been a fun thread so far. Patrick
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You're doing great on that project. You seem really inspired by it. Nothing better than that.
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So, here's a pickle. I'm going hunting with this bow on Saturday. There's a good chance it's going to rain in the afternoon, plus I'll be splashing through rivers and creeks to get to the gobblers. I want to protect it, but I don't want it to check on me because I sealed it too fast. Should I just wax it instead? This article asserts that wax is vapor permeable, so it will still be able to breathe, but splashes will bead up and can be wiped away. Thinking the same with the arrows I just made, and experimenting with ground pigments in the wax.
http://www.woodturningvideosplus.com/air-drying-wood.html
If you think this is a good idea, what wax would you use? I've heard beeswax/oil combo, and Johnsons paste wax suggested before.
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Personaly I would not even look at it for two weeks or more after skining it but others don't think it needs that long to dry out, its not checking that worries me but the amount of set that could occur from bending and stressing wet wood
I forget what kind of glue you used if it was a wood glue ? Like tightbond
the rain and splashing won't get it nearly as wet as the glue under them skins did !
It's your bow and you made it to hunt with so go for it and get the next one started
Post pics of your kill here with the bow cause we know your gona get him !
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I clear coat my stuff. I understand your use of natural products. At any rate good luck on your hunt 8) I have never been there/dun that as of yet; let us know how the hunt goes............ :)
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Andrea put a coat or two of spray varnish on the bow the skins should be dry, then if you want after the hunt scrape the varnish off the belly varnish scrapes off easy but personally i think it's prolly good to go i only wait a day or two before i seal mine, good luck witn them gobblers make sure you post the kill ;)
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I have never skinned anything except knees, so I don't know if this is a good idea or not...but could you weigh the bow every day to see if it is losing weight, as you would to check moisture content of a stave or bow blank? Maybe the amount of moisture from the glue would be too small to make a noticeable difference.
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Haven't sealed anything yet, but got to shoot my first rounds of arrows through it - red osier dogwood shafts I cut last week. I love, love, love this bow. And an unlucky tom or jake will find his way to my dinner table this weekend.
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nice even bend on that bow, good work. its cool to see a woman bowyer on here, keep them comin
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Andrea, while we can get emotionally attached to the bows we build, remember we built them to be tools to use for our pleasure. You built this bow to hunt with, as it seems, for this turkey season. Enjoy your bow and enjoy your hunt. What's the worst that could happen--it absorbs moisture like hickory tends to do and bow take some set. It that risk worth giving up a "hunt of lifetime"? You've got skills. You can build another bow. But, you can't bring back this turkey season.
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You could spray on about 4 or more coats of shellac and have it dry in one day, follow up with a coat of paste wax and your good to go. After the hunt take the wax off gently with acetone and follow with a little alcohol to remove the shellac, then you can put any permanent finish you prefer on it.
Good luck on your hunt, your bow looks top notch Andrea.
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you sure killed the heck out of that turkey in the photo!
good luck on your hunt and great job on the bow..
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Great job and it looks like the turkeys are in deep trouble, like i said earlier put some shellac on it don't give hickory a chance to absorb moisture on the hunt
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That thing is looking sweet. Nice job. I agree with Wizzard. It's super cool to see a woman bowyer on here. Can't wait to see it dolled up
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Andrea, while we can get emotionally attached to the bows we build, remember we built them to be tools to use for our pleasure. You built this bow to hunt with, as it seems, for this turkey season. Enjoy your bow and enjoy your hunt. What's the worst that could happen--it absorbs moisture like hickory tends to do and bow take some set. It that risk worth giving up a "hunt of lifetime"? You've got skills. You can build another bow. But, you can't bring back this turkey season.
+1, enjoy your hunt!
Your arrows look like they performed well to! Patrick
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Your bow and arrows look great. Neat to see someone who wanted to make a bow dive right in and get it done. Good luck with the gobblers.
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Can't wait to see that bow layin on top of a thunder chicken. Great work all around.\,,/
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Thanks for all the advice, encouragement, and kind words everybody. I decided to use carnauba wax to seal the bow and arrows. Hopefully that will let them continue to breathe as they need but provide me with a functional and protected setup this weekend.
Those osier arrows were a little bright so I darkened them up with some alcohol-based pigments. Added some garment leather for the grip - it's super grippy and comfy now.
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Good luck Saturday morning
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Just drew first blood on my knuckle sharpening Zwickeys. Is that a rite of passage?
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Hexk the way you went after building the bow and arrows i figured you would nap your own points :laugh:
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Hexk the way you went after building the bow and arrows i figured you would nap your own points
+1 :D
I'm sure she will in the future. She's the determination in person.
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how about an update?
how did the turkey hunt go?
how did the finish hold up?
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Rock on!!!
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Great job on the bow Andrea......Apparently you guys haven't seen her bone points build along:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,6487.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,6487.0.html)