Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: man at arms on March 25, 2015, 09:03:36 pm

Title: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 25, 2015, 09:03:36 pm
Not sure if this is the right section. If not, please move it.

I saw these on EBay while going through various bow makers. They're $50/6 after shipping BTW. They appear to be sharpened arow shafts with exacto knife blades attached. I wouldn't buy such a thing, but the idea is interesting. Has anyone ever tried something like this? It would make for a relatively light arrow, and I don't know what the lack of a heavy, dense point would do to the flight characteristics of the arrow. It looks like a neat "mcgyver", in-a-pinch hunting arrow. Any thoughts? Any other improvised point ideas?

(https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-0/10423712_803336463049642_4221981201234949766_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=b5aab9d17f6cc20552321d81725eed7c&oe=55B22D31&__gda__=1434203227_058b3512eedf4592239191073c87911b)
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: sleek on March 25, 2015, 09:56:19 pm
Bone is every where and what I would use in a pinch. I have carved them out of hickory before with success. Pvc has been mentioned in the past. Sharpened spoons works well. Imagine being shot at with a fork on an arrow?! Yikes! Bamboo gets a sharp point, could make a hollow point of boo cut at a steep angle like a medical injection needle.  There are hollow small bones in that shape as well...  a hammered flat nail would do well also.  Locust tree thorns,  fire hardened sticks work well for making a hole. Antler could sub for bone if needed. Coins can be sharpened and flattened more to make substantial points also. 

Even in a pinch, you would be hard pressed not to be able to find good point material.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 25, 2015, 10:27:30 pm
Our ancestors were in a pinch all the time. I've recently come across mention of points made of rawhide. There's a YouTube channel called "primitive pathways" where the guy knaps glass points.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: aaron on March 25, 2015, 10:45:12 pm
I wouldn't use 'em- too light. weight helps penetration and is a big part of why an arrow flies well. Why do you say "our ancestors were in a pinch all the time"? I think many stone age people were well provisioned and had time-tested gear. They didn't have to improvise or use untested tools. They used what had worked in the past. It may have been wooden points, or whatever, but I don't think this means they were struggling to find what worked.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: Pat B on March 25, 2015, 10:45:57 pm
Will you post pics of the points?
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 25, 2015, 10:48:58 pm
I say they were in a pinch because they had to use what materials they found.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 25, 2015, 10:50:08 pm
Quote from: Pat B on March 25, 2015, 10:45:57 pm
Will you post pics of the points?

Which points?
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: Pat B on March 25, 2015, 10:52:03 pm
The broadheads made with Exacto blades.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 25, 2015, 10:53:56 pm
That's the picture in my original post. It looks like he took a pencil sharpener to some bare shafts and glued some exacto knife blades to them.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: Pat B on March 25, 2015, 10:57:30 pm
I'd like to see a close up of the broadheads.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 25, 2015, 11:09:11 pm
(https://fbcdn-photos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-0/11080950_803390776377544_1035232287624781567_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=b158cf10932b07ce499b073ffaddc0cc&oe=55AE94D5&__gda__=1433438044_b20a559301494f6667a155e30d2ee3b0)

I'm sure they'd work, at least for one shot. The cutting diameter is a but small though.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: Grasshopper Mouse on March 25, 2015, 11:24:23 pm
By the Red Gods, that's exactly what he did: sharpened the shaft with a pencil sharpener and glued on craft knife blades.
Wow, I've never seen anything like that and especially never seen anyone try to sell something like that.
I guess you really can find anything on eBay!

Guy
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: sleek on March 25, 2015, 11:34:41 pm
Against deer I wouldnt try unless there were no other options. Now, in a bow war as anti personal, those would be grwat if the blades came out after penetration.  Fragmenting arrow heads. Wow im glad we have bullets. That would suck!
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 25, 2015, 11:39:10 pm
Same with the knapped glass points. I wouldn't hunt with them because of the risk of glass shards in the meat, but that'd be one nasty war arrow.

Grasshopper,  that same seller offers them without the blades as "target arrows".

Edit: I just noticed something else. They're fletched with duct tape. Again,  not a bad concept. I've made arrows from hardware store dowels with sheet metal broadheads and gorilla tape fletching. It works, but I'd never try to sell such a thing. Come to think of it, he might be using plain hardwood dowels for shafts. He sells them in packages with 80lb bows. That can get dangerous.

(https://fbcdn-photos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-0/997043_803400389709916_1368258828133707366_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=41b0b529b36f432547bb5c0e2b40162b&oe=55B90843&__gda__=1436960943_466b10e901a4c476776f3088cdc7b38b)
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: osage outlaw on March 25, 2015, 11:49:17 pm
I wouldn't shoot those at anything. 
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 25, 2015, 11:53:03 pm
What puzzles me is that there are cheaper, easier, quicker, and better ways to make an arrow point. I don't know why he'd take the time to do that.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: sleek on March 26, 2015, 12:52:18 am
Especially with the nocks not being reinforced.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: medicinewheel on March 26, 2015, 04:48:19 am
Quote from: osage outlaw on March 25, 2015, 11:49:17 pm
I wouldn't shoot those at anything.

Dito. - Bad ethics shooting something like that at an animal, I'd say, redneck or not.
Arrow materials for decent arrows would be 20 Euros here, with brodheads it would be still cheaper than this offer. So what's the point??
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: paulsemp on March 26, 2015, 06:57:25 am
I sure hope you didn't buy those
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: Pat B on March 26, 2015, 08:37:43 am
$50 for 6 of these is ridiculous. Obviously the maker wasn't an arrow maker. They look pretty cheesy to me.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: Pat B on March 26, 2015, 10:09:08 am
...as far as glass arrowheads, obsidian is volcanic glass and many animals have been killed with obsidian heads as well as beer bottle glass heads, 1/4" thick window glass, TV picture tube glass and many other sources. Heck, even flint(generically speaking) arrowheads can be chipped when a bone is struck.
...and even a metal broadhead can crack and break when bone is hit.
 If the arrow is shot through or into the ribcage very little meat is adversely affected.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 26, 2015, 10:52:36 am
Some fool will buy them and another fool will fill his pockets with said fools money.

I read about all kinds of broad head materials guys use and say works just fine, yet never have taken a deer with them. Try that first before you call them "just fine". I've wrecked heavy duty double layered store bought heads on dead deer more times than I can remember, I couldn't imagine tossing anything less at them.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: Oglala Bowyer on March 26, 2015, 12:09:14 pm
I can't see the pics, but given the description of 'em I sure as heck wouldn't buy them. 
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: bubbles on March 26, 2015, 04:19:29 pm
Are the nocks heat treated or is it just me?  And you said these were supposed to be used with an 80# bow?
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 26, 2015, 04:38:07 pm
The maker sells these same arrows in packages with 80 lb bows, so I guess he intends them for use in the bows. It does look like the inside of the knocks were charred with something. The shafts appear to be hardware store dowels (given the porous appearance). The fletchings are obviously colored duct tape.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: osage outlaw on March 26, 2015, 06:05:53 pm
He sure does have a creative way of describing his bows and arrows.  I guess he doesn't want to say they are made from pvc and duct tape.  I like his statement about what the bow is made from:  "a synthetic compound material that is far more durable than wood"   
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: man at arms on March 26, 2015, 06:51:53 pm
Again, nothing wrong with making a PVC bow. They work. I just wouldn't buy or sell one.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: osage outlaw on March 26, 2015, 07:21:03 pm
Yeah but at least admit its a pvc bow and not a synthetic compound material.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: Grasshopper Mouse on March 26, 2015, 08:48:32 pm
I don't think those nocks are heat treated. I suspect he's using a power tool of some kind to cut the nocks and it is building up heat either through being dull or being pushed too hard and not letting the tool cut properly.
When I was making and selling custom wood arrows one of my options was a self nock or a horn reinforced self nock. I didn't charge a lot more than this fellow but I can assure you the nocks were a whole lot different!

Guy
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: le0n on March 26, 2015, 08:49:57 pm
Quote from: man at arms on March 26, 2015, 06:51:53 pm
Again, nothing wrong with making a PVC bow. They work.

^^ very true. if done properly they can serve a purpose. i have absolutely no problem with him selling those.

on the other hand, he should not be allowed to sell those arrows; at all.

i'm feeling guilty just reading this thread, knowing that someone can be seriously injured from his lack of knowledge in building/reinforcing/matching the arrows to the bows he's kitting them with.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: crooketarrow on March 27, 2015, 12:49:16 pm
Manof arms the reasons we hunt with knaped heads isn't because were scared of getting glass it meat.

  Same reasons you stepped back to selfbows in the first place. Knaped heads well I guess you hadn't stepped back that far.

  Thered be a lot of starved people in the last 100.000 years if you want to include pieces of broken sharp rock then knaped spear heads then knaped atlies heads then bows. I'd dout if any of those people worryed about getting cut by a peice of rock.

  Besides I don't eat the ribs anyways.
Title: Re: Improvised broad heads
Post by: Tree_Ninja on March 28, 2015, 02:56:19 pm
You can see the grain run-off at the nock of the lowest arrow on the right. 

Must be a pvc bowyer.

I've turned my own shafts from salvaged logs that look better than that. ( primitive shoot arrows and bamboo are the most time efficient shafting material for the hobbyist arrowsmith IMO, all the "hardwood" dowels I've seen are dangerous)

Then I met a local arrowsmith and for a very reasonable price, he does all the legwork. The grain on his arrows are perfect. He spends hours at the lumber store looking for perfect arrow wood. 

  Unless you want a shaft through the hand, quality and safety costs. Money or time, you choose.