Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: ceolith on October 26, 2015, 03:58:51 pm
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78" italian yew, buffalo horn-nocks, 16strand FF string and a shitload of earlypower!
With a braceheight of 6,5inches she is nearly 80#@20"
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/rzwbe5h7.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/rzwbe5h7_jpg.htm)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/x2p77bva.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/x2p77bva_jpg.htm)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/mdtth26y.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/mdtth26y_jpg.htm)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/m5grjsx5.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/m5grjsx5_jpg.htm)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/9je38bfk.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/9je38bfk_jpg.htm)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/k4mm3i6f.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/k4mm3i6f_jpg.htm)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/jg77unmz.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/jg77unmz_jpg.htm)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/6b3lxs9j.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/6b3lxs9j_jpg.htm)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/4b6w7ab9.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/4b6w7ab9_jpg.htm)
(http://fs5.directupload.net/images/151026/temp/npmi44ts.jpg) (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4152/npmi44ts_jpg.htm)
Ah, please click the thumps to see a bigger picture. :)
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Very nice 50:50 heart sap looks great, and that lump give it some character.
Great work :)
Del
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As nice and good as always :)
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Beautiful! I love the look of yew bows and yours is certainly no exception!
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Stunning work as always Michael, you are the man when it comes to yew warbows!
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Quite a lot of sap.
1/8th is better
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"1/8" is better"........ARRROOOOOGAH, ARRROOOOOGAH...."TROLL ALERT"!!!! >:D >:D >:D
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Of all the bowyers in all the world...
I think telling Michael how to make a self yew warbow comes close to the most ridiculous thing I've read on the internet.
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Very nice. Any particular reason you have the outer limbs doing most of the work?
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Of all the bowyers in all the world...
I think telling Michael how to make a self yew warbow comes close to the most ridiculous thing I've read on the internet.
It's gotta' be right up there with the best of them Will! LMFAO :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Tapers to 1/8 at the tips. No more that 1/4 anywhere.
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Very nice. Any particular reason you have the outer limbs doing most of the work?
Yes, to minimize the handshock and to use the maximum power from the entire wood.
Quite a lot of sap.
1/8th is better
Better for what? The look? Feet per second? Endurance from the bow? To reduce the hysteresis? To move to the neutral phase?
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Looks better. Faster IMO. I have one from all heartwood.
Not telling you how to suck eggs of course.
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I make all mine 80 inches or so. Maybe I have room to have thin sap :P
Looked at your site. Bows look truly powerful. I seem to overbuild mine a great deal.
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Very nice. Any particular reason you have the outer limbs doing most of the work?
This how to tiller an elb. Perfect in my eyes.
After a few hundred elb's and monitoring set on them all this is the 'correct' tiller shape. People talk about 'full compass' tiller but to get the handle doing too much is a mistake. As the fella says it has loads of early draw weight and I bet it wouldn't if it had more bend in the center.
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I think a perfect arc is always best, an even draw throughout with a smooth constant loose with the whole bow working evenly. And better for the bow long term as set begins to happen mid upper limbs if tillered like this, the minor advantage is o.k. for a compitition bow maybe but not worth it for a regular everyday bow, just my personal opinion and preference, I feel an even arc gives the bow a lasting strength and makes a sweeter shooter.I'm always going to aim for a perfect arc myself...when I can find some wood :), still, a very nice bow and excellent work . 8)
Ruddy Darter.
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Very nice. Any particular reason you have the outer limbs doing most of the work?
This how to tiller an elb. Perfect in my eyes.
After a few hundred elb's and monitoring set on them all this is the 'correct' tiller shape. People talk about 'full compass' tiller but to get the handle doing too much is a mistake. As the fella says it has loads of early draw weight and I bet it wouldn't if it had more bend in the center.
Interesting theory but if you look at the unbraced profile you will see that the bow took more set in the outer limbs. It is true that tillering the bow like that will reduce hand-shock though. Getting a bow to work where there is more wood to do work is always better for longevity and there is always more wood to do the work in the middle of the bow.
I've made a few ELB's myself.
In any case a very nice bow
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*apologies, when I write mid upper limbs I mean mid "outer" limbs, noted I have to correct my terminology*
Ruddy Darter.
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Ruddy - Wood at a given thickness can only bend so far before it takes set. Fact! You make that piece of wood thicker and it can only bend to a lesser degree before taking set. Make your piece of wood thinner and it can bend further....again these are simple plain facts!
Now look at an elb......notice the large thickness taper. Apply those facts to a tapering piece of wood.
The tiller shape for an elb should have a little bend through the handle (depending on what you want the bow for, target only a little less bend is ok) and as the wood gets progressively thinner towards the tips the bend should be increasing proportionately.
Marc - the bow should take more set in the outer limbs? Why would you want set in the inner limbs? Any set there would have a negative effect on string tension and therefore performance. All this talk about getting this part or that part of the bow to do more work is a misnomer the whole bow should be working evenly. EVERY part should be strained to the same level, afterall wood doesn't know where it is on a bow it only knows the strain it is feeling and will respond accordingly eg. set or not. I don't hold with what you say about the part where there is most wood should be doing the most work. If you did a strain analysis of this bow I bet you would see that the inner limbs/handle area is doing plenty of work! My guess would be about the same strain as the outerlimbs. That handle area cannot bend much because if is a thick piece of wood BUT you can bet your bottom dollar that it is strained it certainly isn't sat there doing not much.
It's not a compettion of who's made the most bows you know! I only said that because I see a load of comments from people who clearly haven't made what they profess to know about and I was just quantifying my statement. I won't comment on things i'm not certain about.....I'm sure you have made many bows and are very good at it! ;)
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"Ruddy - Wood at a given thickness can only bend so far before it takes set. Fact! You make that piece of wood thicker and it can only bend to a lesser degree before taking set. Make your piece of wood thinner and it can bend further....again these are simple plain facts!"
Thanks for the info, very helpful... I've often wondered why bows are bigger in the middle and got thinner towards the ends, clears up that little puzzler for me. 8)
Ruddy Darter.
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"Ruddy - Wood at a given thickness can only bend so far before it takes set. Fact! You make that piece of wood thicker and it can only bend to a lesser degree before taking set. Make your piece of wood thinner and it can bend further....again these are simple plain facts!"
Thanks for the info, very helpful... I've often wondered why bows are bigger in the middle and thinner at the ends, clears up that little puzzler for me. 8)
Ruddy Darter.
Consider yourself educated...."FACT" ::) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
John T. ;)
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Ruddy - Wood at a given thickness can only bend so far before it takes set. Fact! You make that piece of wood thicker and it can only bend to a lesser degree before taking set. Make your piece of wood thinner and it can bend further....again these are simple plain facts!
Now look at an elb......notice the large thickness taper. Apply those facts to a tapering piece of wood.
The tiller shape for an elb should have a little bend through the handle (depending on what you want the bow for, target only a little less bend is ok) and as the wood gets progressively thinner towards the tips the bend should be increasing proportionately.
Marc - the bow should take more set in the outer limbs? Why would you want set in the inner limbs? Any set there would have a negative effect on string tension and therefore performance. All this talk about getting this part or that part of the bow to do more work is a misnomer the whole bow should be working evenly. EVERY part should be strained to the same level, afterall wood doesn't know where it is on a bow it only knows the strain it is feeling and will respond accordingly eg. set or not. I don't hold with what you say about the part where there is most wood should be doing the most work. If you did a strain analysis of this bow I bet you would see that the inner limbs/handle area is doing plenty of work! My guess would be about the same strain as the outerlimbs. That handle area cannot bend much because if is a thick piece of wood BUT you can bet your bottom dollar that it is strained it certainly isn't sat there doing not much.
It's not a compettion of who's made the most bows you know! I only said that because I see a load of comments from people who clearly haven't made what they profess to know about and I was just quantifying my statement. I won't comment on things i'm not certain about.....I'm sure you have made many bows and are very good at it! ;)
You seem to be under the misconception that an ELB's limbs are getting a progressively thinner to width ratio as you move towards the limb tips but this is not the case. What you should be saying is that wood at a given thickness to width ratio can only bend so far before it takes set...Fact. Increase the width of the wood and you can make it thicker and that is what you have when you make an ELB.
It is very odd that you would misread what I wrote. At no point did I write that a bow SHOULD take more set in the outer limbs, only that this bow did. I have examined many old bows that were tillered as you suggest and in all cases the bows took an excess of set in the outer limbs, clearly an indication that this is not the way to tiller a bow for longevity. It is curious that you would say " EVERY part should be strained to the same level " since that is what a full compass tiller does. You can bet all you want but the fact is that no strain analysis has been done, and I would bet that if it was done it would show just the opposite ;).
In any case, do yourself a favour and contact some people that have been using bows tillered like this for a period of time and ask them for their honest opinion. I have heard from some of them and the report they give me is quite contrary to what you are trying to say here.
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"Ruddy - Wood at a given thickness can only bend so far before it takes set. Fact! You make that piece of wood thicker and it can only bend to a lesser degree before taking set. Make your piece of wood thinner and it can bend further....again these are simple plain facts!"
Thanks for the info, very helpful... I've often wondered why bows are bigger in the middle and thinner at the ends, clears up that little puzzler for me. 8)
Ruddy Darter.
Consider yourself educated...."FACT" ::) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
John T. ;)
I do believe Ruddy was being facetious :laugh:
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I hardly ever post here anymore because most that needs to be said is said. We can always improve what we do given diminishing returns, but we know what works and what doesn't. Excess wood doesn't work for performance. Michael's bows are nice but I would agree with Marc sentiments. Let's not judge a bowyer on the basis of pretty picutures; f.d curve or distance records are a far better indicator. Even set is difficult to really see in a picture let alone measure, I would say sero inches of set is good, if you get any more than that you can do better.
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Marc - you said i've misquoted you and then you misquote me multiple times....its hard to compare apples and oranges ;)
You are wrong about the width part of what you are saying - width has nothing to do with how far a piece of wood can bend. Also ELB's don't have to made with any given width taper like you are suggesting, in fact that doesn't even make sense.
I spent quite a few years studying the equations and theory relating to these sorts of things. A beam that changes thickness (even if the width also changes proportionately) but is bent to an arc of a circle is NOT strained evenly I can assure you. Plenty of stress/strain analysis has been done on every conceivable shape of beam and the physics behind it isn't wrong! A little searching will back up what i'm saying here.
Ruddy - If you want to write remarks like that when somebody has taken their time to try and help you understand things which you appear to not really a have handle on that's totally fine but I won't be wasting my time again.
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Marc - you said i've misquoted you and then you misquote me multiple times....its hard to compare apples and oranges ;)
You are wrong about the width part of what you are saying - width has nothing to do with how far a piece of wood can bend. Also ELB's don't have to made with any given width taper like you are suggesting, in fact that doesn't even make sense.
I spent quite a few years studying the equations and theory relating to these sorts of things. A beam that changes thickness (even if the width also changes proportionately) but is bent to an arc of a circle is NOT strained evenly I can assure you. Plenty of stress/strain analysis has been done on every conceivable shape of beam and the physics behind it isn't wrong! A little searching will back up what i'm saying here.
Ruddy - If you want to write remarks like that when somebody has taken their time to try and help you understand things which you appear to not really a have handle on that's totally fine but I won't be wasting my time again.
I guess you must know more than the hundreds of bowyers of the past. I have many, many years of experience that says differently.
At no point in my reply did I suggest making an ELB with any width taper ???
I recently received an e-mail from someone that purchased a bow tillered like this and it lost 20# in less than 200 shots and the second bow did the same thing. That is what happens to a bow that is whip tillered, they have a shorter lifespan of a bow stressed properly. That's not to say it won't survive but performance drops substantially, swiftly.
I made an ELB flightbow many years ago for the Nevada shoots and tillered it that way. I knew it would perform better but that it would have a shorter lifespan. It set a record that year
I know that there is a lot lost in this form of communication and that is part of the problem here.
We will just have to agree to disagree
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What a thread... :o
Ok, same bow, same fulldraw-picture, but a different angle and helplines... ::)
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Tiller looks better in that picture. There's still what looks like outer limb set in the unbraced profile. Perhaps this was there before tillering the bow?
Looks like BA did not like this debate as he has requested his account be deleted. I'll give him a day to think it over.
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Tiller looks better in that picture. There's still what looks like outer limb set in the unbraced profile. Perhaps this was there before tillering the bow?
Looks like BA did not like this debate as he has requested his account be deleted. I'll give him a day to think it over.
So Blacksmiths bow is whip tillered?
What is the best tiller shape for long livety and little set?
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So Blacksmiths bow is whip tillered?
What is the best tiller shape for long livety and little set?
...no he is not whip tillered...
This one is a typical whip-tillered bow:
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Confusius Say
He who cannot accept constructive criticism, does not post pictures of bow .
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you mean me? If you mean me, you're wrong. :) I'm happy, all is fine.
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You could call the lower limb whip tillered, although that is a bit extreme, but the upper limb is badly hinged