Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Wooden Spring on November 19, 2015, 07:40:20 am

Title: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Wooden Spring on November 19, 2015, 07:40:20 am
In our research for 19th century American Archery, we came across this picture... It was titled "Old Appalachian Archer." The problem is that the picture didn't say anything about its origin, and nothing about the bow. I do know that it is an original, and not a reproduction. The style of photo (as apparent by its torn edges and color) is a Carte de visite that was invented in 1854, and quickly became very popular. Only given this picture and no context, it could be anywhere from 1850's-1880's.

Can anyone tell me anything about the bow from the picture? It appears to be a flatbow of maybe Cherokee design, but longer for a 28" draw? Maybe someone with more knowledge here can help me out. I'd like to be able to recreate this for our demonstrations.

The arrows are also very interesting. It appears that the tips are around 5 inches long, and look like spikes - not really hunting tips - tied on to the shaft by sinew.

Anyone have any ideas???
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: PatM on November 19, 2015, 08:34:47 am
Very likely a Cherokee influenced set-up. The longer spike tips were typical cornstalk shoot arrows.
 The 28" draw "rule" was unknown to these early archers.  ;) Even a shorter Cherokee style bow will handle a 28" draw but the cornstalk shoot bow would very likely be where their longer warbow style was utilized.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Hrothgar on November 19, 2015, 08:37:13 am
Interesting picture. Without knowing what state or part of the Appalachian mountains this is makes exact identification difficult. More info about the arrows might help. A lot of eastern and central states used hardwood splits. But if the band around the arrow tip is sinew rather than paint that would indicate a river cane or similar type shaft which places the location in the southern states. Can anyone see nodes on the shafts?

Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Josh B on November 19, 2015, 08:46:12 am
I think that's Pat B back before his beard reached full maturity!  Maybe he remembers what bow he was using in the picture. >:D   Just kidding Pat.    O:)   I would have to agree that it would be Cherokee influenced and for the same reasons mentioned.  Josh
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Wooden Spring on November 19, 2015, 08:52:54 am
Awesome... Thanks for the replies! So I suppose the next step is to page through my TTB volumes for Cherokee bows.

I do wish there was more information about the picture, but when we found it, the only thing that they commented on was the horseshoe hung above the door - apparently his "luck ran out."

I'm thinking of taking this by the Foxfire Museum the next time I'm up in Clayton, GA and see if any of their folks can help with it.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: PatM on November 19, 2015, 09:01:48 am
Remember the story of the Thompson brothers meeting the hermit? Guys like this probably weren't uncommon.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Wooden Spring on November 19, 2015, 09:06:42 am
Remember the story of the Thompson brothers meeting the hermit? Guys like this probably weren't uncommon.

Quite true. Look at his feet - he's wearing military brogans, so he's likely a veteran. When Maurice Thompson went home after the war, his community wouldn't permit confederate veterans to own firearms for fear of an uprising, so being proficient with a bow was one of the ways that he was able to put food on the table.

The Foxfire Museum also has photos of an Appalachian Crossbow, made in the late 1800's to early 1900's by a man likely like the one in the picture who needed to hunt, but had no money for a firearm.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Chief RID on November 19, 2015, 09:52:52 am
TB may be a good source. All Herrin had at least one or two articles on corn stalk shooting. the Cherokee connection should be a good place to start. I sure love the pic and I do not recall seeing it before. Dating it by the type of photography surely puts it much earlier than I would have thought. 
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: PatM on November 19, 2015, 10:12:44 am
Interesting picture. Without knowing what state or part of the Appalachian mountains this is makes exact identification difficult. More info about the arrows might help. A lot of eastern and central states used hardwood splits. But if the band around the arrow tip is sinew rather than paint that would indicate a river cane or similar type shaft which places the location in the southern states. Can anyone see nodes on the shafts?

Thanks for sharing
River Cane grows much farther North than the Southern States.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Knoll on November 19, 2015, 10:38:15 am
Saw the pic posted on one of fb's trad archery groups. Good to see that you're trying to unravel its history.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: GlisGlis on November 19, 2015, 11:27:49 am
very nice picture
the more I see the more I like it
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Wooden Spring on November 19, 2015, 11:33:02 am
Saw the pic posted on one of fb's trad archery groups. Good to see that you're trying to unravel its history.

Did anyone there have any clues?
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Pat B on November 19, 2015, 12:33:15 pm
Not me! I've never shot cornstalk.   ;D
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: jimmy on November 19, 2015, 12:35:27 pm
That is a verycool and rare photo.  Not many archery related photos around of this age, unless they're old photos of indians.  I would have loved to know that guy.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Knoll on November 19, 2015, 01:23:54 pm
Saw the pic posted on one of fb's trad archery groups. Good to see that you're trying to unravel its history.

Did anyone there have any clues?

Nope, posted just for the "cool" factor.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: blackhawk on November 19, 2015, 04:37:37 pm
Saw it on fb too....thought it was cool.

So if i was a confederate vet n couldnt have my firearms id prob be pissed off and wanting to kill something...so id grab the next best thing and grab a bow and kill me sum critters ... ;)

I bet he turned the shoe upside down for kicks n giggles....when they took a pic back then it was all set up precisely the way they wanted it to be. They werent running around takin pics like we do nowadays
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Able Arrow on November 19, 2015, 05:26:46 pm
Very cool pic. Thanks for sharing. I wish I knew more about it as well.

Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Hrothgar on November 19, 2015, 09:39:25 pm
PatM,
    I live in Missouri and I have to get my river cane from Texas. Regardless, the reference to southern states was meant to help identify what section of the Appalachian mountain range--Smokies, Blue Ridge, Quebec, Newfoundland, etc.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: PatM on November 19, 2015, 10:25:52 pm
You consider Quebec and Newfoundland Southern States? ;) River Cane really does or did grow much farther to the North despite you needing to source it elsewhere today. A lot of it has been eradicated.

 BTW the  Appalachians do not extend into Quebec.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: riverrat on November 20, 2015, 03:32:51 am
looks like nodes on bottom arrow. look at the fletches.look at about the same distance as the fletch is long. node. another node between his hand and sinew wrap.those are river cane arrows.Tony
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: GlisGlis on November 20, 2015, 05:38:45 am
if you got the original you may want to post a bigger resolution image
I'd like to see it and that will trigger new speculation for sure  >:D !
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Pappy on November 20, 2015, 06:10:14 am
No idea but cool picture, bet he was a tough old buzzard. :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: blackhawk on November 20, 2015, 06:51:42 am
I have heard of river cane used to being here in Pennsylvania...but i dont think this chap was this far north tho. Looks more southern appalchia to me.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: blackhawk on November 20, 2015, 06:55:17 am
.... I would have loved to know that guy.

You can...just head to the hills jimmy and youll find quite a few that prob look and act just like him. Not much has changed in some of them rural appalachia areas. At first i thought it was a pic of my father in law from west by god. Lol  :laugh:
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: Hrothgar on November 20, 2015, 07:16:22 am
Pat, you need to start over, I never said Newfoundland is a southern state; I did say knowing what part of the Appalachian chain this guy occupied might help identify the type and materials of bow and arrows this man was using; and yes the Appalachian chain does extend into Canada, Labrador and Newfoundland.
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: PatM on November 20, 2015, 07:50:53 am
Pat, you need to start over, I never said Newfoundland is a southern state; I did say knowing what part of the Appalachian chain this guy occupied might help identify the type and materials of bow and arrows this man was using; and yes the Appalachian chain does extend into Canada, Labrador and Newfoundland.

   I was just kidding that those two are not States at all. I know the Appalachians extend into Canada, but not Quebec.
 My point was that the pic could possibly be from a more northern state, even with the river cane arrows. Especially back in the day.
   The skins on the wall might give hints. Name them all and see where those animals range. That long tailed one on the left for example. What is that?
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: PatM on November 20, 2015, 08:44:02 am
 A little more info on the types of "river cane". Closer examination reveals a few more species.
"River cane and its cousin, switch cane (Arundinaria tecta, a smaller species), were until recently thought to be the only native North American arundinaria. There are hundreds of species native to Asia. Last winter, though, botanists from the universities of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and Iowa State announced the discovery of a third species, which they call “hill cane” (Arundinaria appalachiana). It lives only in the southern Appalachians. Hill cane, unlike the other two North American species, is deciduous. It is much smaller and more closely resembles the grass family of which the canes are a part.

Researchers have published photos of the new species in Polk County, Tenn., and Macon County, N.C., but the species is much more widespread than that. Perhaps it has just been overlooked in the forests of the Southern mountains.
- See more at: http://www.smliv.com/features/river-cane-of-the-southern-appalachians/#sthash.ODKEU3Vt.dpuf
Title: Re: Appalachian Archer
Post by: George Tsoukalas on November 20, 2015, 08:59:13 am
I spent my early years building houses and hen houses with my father.

The shingles look totally out of place. They are pipe straight and seem manufactured which looks out of character for that building and that picture.

Perhaps someone needed a new roof and bought the shingles which may play a role in dating.

The bow seems perfectly tillered. It is a great picture.

Very intriguing.

I grew up in a house that was built in the 1700's. So looking at the style of construction is not always accurate in aging a structure.

Jawge