Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: Tracker0721 on November 30, 2015, 12:56:10 pm
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So I was just watching a documentary on Neanderthals and they were showing the flint points that they used and started saying how it actually took more intelligence to make their points then it did modern humans to make theirs. So I'm looking at the modern points, like most of us here make, and looking at these Neanderthals flakes thinking these guys were smoking something but then they actually showed the flint knapper making the points! They planned the point from the beginning and took flakes to shape a point on one side of a big ole chunk of flint that had a even thickness and was pretty straight then drove a flute it looks like down so the flake would pop off in the desired shape and have those incredibly sharp edges all around it! Pretty awesome documentary on how much we have no idea about Neanderthals and what we have found out in the last few years changes every thought about them we've had. I'm gonna try making some points later on using their technique. The flint knapper on the documentary said it took him around 18 months to be proficient at making them!
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I would like to watch it, any idea on where to find the documentary?
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Netflix and it was called "decoding Neanderthals". Or something like that.
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Every so often this stuff comes up. NOVA has done work on it and there are other examples. They've decoded the Neanderthal Genome and I believe other human species, as well. It seems that Neanderthals have left some of their genetics with us. Western Europeans have some of the highest percentages...I think around 3%. In science's perspective, the only folks that don't have any "cross-species" genetics are folks of "purely" African descent. Anyhow, I love that stuff...fascinating. Cheers.
I'd like to see pictures of their points/flakes. Never checked that out before.
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Yeah that's what it was saying. Even Chinese people still have a couple percent. The documentary goes over the whole 4 year process to decoding the genome and how Neanderthals have the exact same gene we do that allows us to have language.
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Tracker, I looked it up and watched it....very interesting documentary. It again shows the totally wrong "guess" that all the past predictions have been. Makes me sick that history is taught as fact when it is only a big guess. Just like Otzi and his copper axe. The "copper age" predictions were found to be totally wrong. Otzi not only had a copper axe but a smelted copper axe that was finely made. Decoding Neanderthals showed that a lot of the DNA is concentrated around Italy, which incidentally is where Otzi was found..Small world isn't it.
Thanks for the heads up on the show..
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What gets me is they don't update history in school for this stuff! I graduated in 2012(I know, I'm young) but out text books were never newer then 04 or 05. A lot changes in just a year so imagine all that I learned being wrong. Perfect example- Christopher Columbus is still the first to reach the Americas according to schools. Chinese already were in Oregon, Russians in Alaska, and Vikings in the northeast.
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just watched this.
very interesting closing note in regards to their extinction too.
thanks for the suggestion.
I'm gonna try making some points later on using their technique.
post your results back here :)
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just watched this.
very interesting closing note in regards to their extinction too.
thanks for the suggestion.
I'm gonna try making some points later on using their technique.
post your results back here :)
would be interesting to see
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I'm only 1.1% Just got my results back from National Geographic. I watched it last night too. On Netflix, Decoding Neanderthals, it is a Nova program. Good watch.
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I'm only 1.1% Just got my results back from National Geographic. I watched it last night too. On Netflix, Decoding Neanderthals, it is a Nova program. Good watch.
how were you tested?
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National Geographic has a test. called the Genographic project. Give it a google.
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I watched Claude Van Order make a point like this. Very interesting concept. All percussion and very sharp
roger
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No I would not say it takes more or less intelligence to knap one way or the other, but levallois points sure have a sharper edge :o than the typical neolithic style ones.
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No I would not say it takes more or less intelligence to knap one way or the other, but levallois points sure have a sharper edge :o than the typical neolithic style ones.
Not only that, Levallois material possesses the ultimate in plano-convexity, and because of its greater surface area, it can be retouched a greater number of times, meaning it is the most economically efficient flintknapping technique ever devised, and produces the best tools.
This paper was written by the individual featured on the decoding Neanderthals program.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0029273
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HfwXXqK1eU
No one but a modern genius can have a masterful comprehension of this method. It was practiced by anatomically modern human-Neanderthal hybrids in the Levant, who are believed to have been acculterated by the Neanderthals as they left Africa, approximately 100,000 years ago, and also at Mal'ta-Buret approximately 24,000 years ago.
Amazingly, Levallois artifacts have been found at possibly pre-Clovis sites in North America -- this is most interesting as Native Americans have close genetic affinities to Mal'ta-Buret and are believed to have descended, in part, from a Mal'ta-like population.
http://www.academia.edu/3412562/Capps_A_Levallois-like_Prepared_Core_Technology_in_the_Southeastern_United_States
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Tracker, I looked it up and watched it....very interesting documentary. It again shows the totally wrong "guess" that all the past predictions have been. Makes me sick that history is taught as fact when it is only a big guess. Just like Otzi and his copper axe. The "copper age" predictions were found to be totally wrong. Otzi not only had a copper axe but a smelted copper axe that was finely made. Decoding Neanderthals showed that a lot of the DNA is concentrated around Italy, which incidentally is where Otzi was found..Small world isn't it.
Thanks for the heads up on the show..
The DNA information was based on an earlier model of Neanderthal admixture, and on an incomplete genome. With the full sequencing of a Neanderthal genome shortly after the program was produced, and after broader and more extensive studies, it has now been found that East Asians have the highest Neanderthal DNA of all modern humans.
http://www.genetics.org/content/early/2013/02/04/genetics.112.148213
http://biorxiv.org/content/early/2015/10/30/030148
Interestingly all of the Neanderthal DNA in modern humans is Y-DNA. Yet no modern human DNA has ever been found in a Neanderthal Y chromosome, nor in a mitochondrial profile. Which means that Neanderthals were very good fornicators with modern human women, but no modern males ever reproduced with Neanderthal females. Furthermore, Neanderthal DNA seems to be concentrated in certain areas of our genome. The Oase 1 specimen, an early modern human from Europe, was 50% Neanderthal on one of his chromosomes. Different individuals and human populations have different kinds of Neanderthal DNA regardless of percentage.