Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bow of the Month Contest => Topic started by: simson on March 04, 2016, 03:27:54 am
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Looking at the number of particpients and the number of votes I'm afraid they are getting down with every month. Why?
I know you have to have a subsciption of the magazin, but there are so many nice bows every month, to bad they don't take part.
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In a word...yes. One of the very few disadvantages of this great and considerate community is that when something goes from being strong and vibrant to turning turtle, nobody wants to point out the elephant in the room that caused the problem for fear of offending someone. In this case there are several elephants, all of whom have good reason for their decisions, actions or inactions that have led to this apathy that is killing the BOM. I am not in a position that I can volunteer to help, so I am reluctant to start pointing out problems for that reason as well as not wanting to step on toes. However, if we are to save a vital and uniquely PA feature that is not found anywhere else, somebody has to start the conversation. Apathy always starts at the top and trickles down in one way or another. Here are just a few elephants that I see.
1. The decision to go subscription only to enter the BOM. I know...I know, this has been discussed over and over. I recognize a business's right to make such decisions and support that right. However, now that a considerable amount of time has passed since that rules inception I would ask that PA take a look at the net effect of that decision and try to determine if the outcome of that decision was positive or negative. Considering the low number of entries in the BOM contest, I can't see how the rule could have had a positive effect on subscription numbers in the long run. It may even be having some negative effects as interest in the BOM contest wanes, maybe readership is suffering a similar demise. I know it has with me. I don't rush out to buy the newest copy off the rack anymore and my e-mag subscription wasn't renewed even though I paid for it. So I didn't renew that this year. Apathy
2. A side effect of problem one. With the lower number of participants, the same few bowyers win the hat every contest. This has led to folks believing that they don't have a chance, so why enter. I'm not saying that the winning bowyers are not deserving of the honors, but every month I see dozens of bows that would give them a run for their money that aren't entered. More apathy.
3. This is the tough one that I really don't want to point out. Even though I consider the man that has had the reins for BOM for a long time a close personal friend despite never having met him in person, another problem that I see is the seemingly random manner in which the BOM is put up to vote on. By that I mean the timing. It used to be BOM was up for a vote within 2 or 3 days of the first of each month. Now, it might be the middle of the month, the end of the month or skip a month altogether. I realize that the skip a month/combination of months is usually due to lack of entries. I also realize that the randomness is due to our amigo having a life outside PA. I think everyone realizes that fact and understands. I don't want to seem overly critical of a man that has put in a tremendous amount of effort into this contest and especially in to the excellent write ups for the winners. Those write ups are something that I have really appreciated in the last few years. For me, the lack of predictable timing has produced some apathy about voting. Perhaps I am the only one that is effected by that. I don't want to sound ungrateful for the effort or cause any hard feelings or regret, but it might be too much for one guy to handle alone. It might just be a case of burn out. In which case that would be entirely understandable. Whatever the case, some help or relief of the burden altogether might be needed. Again I'm not in a position where I can help and that is regrettable.
These are just a few things that I see contributing to the demise of the BOM. I'm sure others have their own reasons or suspicions as to the cause, but these are what I see. I really don't want to be the complainer/finger pointer that has no way of becoming part of the solution. I'm just not wired that way. At the risk of deeply offending someone that has dedicated much more than any of us can possibly imagine, I'm throwing this out there to get the conversation started. If we don't identify the root cause(s) of the problem, there's simply no way to address them and save something vital and profound. Josh
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I won several BOM and a BOY. I want to see others win them.
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Josh, thanks for your very detailed answer. And I'm with you in all three points you listed.
I have read your answer several times and come to the conclusion I'm probably one of the elephants you pointed at. If so, I apologize! I really want to help getting the BOM vital again. And seeing Pearlie's answer, I will also not participate the next time.
Thanks for pointing me on the right track again.
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Josh, thanks for your very detailed answer. And I'm with you in all three points you listed.
I have read your answer several times and come to the conclusion I'm probably one of the elephants you pointed at. If so, I apologize! I really want to help getting the BOM vital again. And seeing Pearlie's answer, I will also not participate the next time.
Thanks for pointing me on the right track again.
No sir! That was not my point at all. I would like to see more...much more entries, not discourage the faithful few. Please continue to support the BOM. I will endeavor to do a better job of the same. Like Pearlie, I felt that I had already won my share of hats and only entered bows that I was sure had no chance of winning and even not posting some bows at all that might have been contenders. In hind sight, this did not help the situation but compound the problem. Josh
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Competing against the best makes us all better
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Simon my comment was aimed only at my personal feelings. I don't mind if you win 50 BOMS, you may have already :). I just started to feel like a BOM "hog", if you will. I stopped entering bows, which eventually evolved into not posting bows. I rarely post them complete anymore. Neither are good for the site. I should take the time to post them all and enter them all.
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You get a hat if you win BOM? And your bow gets shown in the magazine right? Sounds like I need to make a couple bows. I could use a new hunting hat...
MSturm
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Well said Josh.. . you nailed it.
I for one didn't want to tread on toes and I have the general philosophy that if I'm not willing to step in and help then I should go along with the rules and keep my mouth shut! (A rare occurrence ;) )
The forum and BOM is a part of the whole and limiting BOM to subscribers is counter productive as it provides less material for the magazine.
I do try to support by voting for BOM even tho' I can't enter.
This is a superb forum and the only place where I'd ask advice and trust the answer, long may it continue.
Del
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I agree with everything you said, Josh, and unfortunely I don't have the time to help out either with the traveling I do with work. And when did we start getting hat again?
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I neglect the BOM post more than I should. Unless one entry stands out hands down better than the others I may not even cast a vote because it seems unfair to vote for just one.
Also never entered a bow, main reason being I personally don't feel qualified to compete at my present level.
I will say that a lot of my inspiration and ideas come from the bowyers who participate on a regular basis. The bows are month after month some of the best I've seen anywhere. It would be a terrible shame not to be able to view the great work that is done here.
That being said, possibly I'll try to get more involved and may even enter one for a start. Even finishing last would no doubt be better than not entering the race.
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Glad this is being talked about. I really enjoy the BOM. It created some extra motivation for me to put more effort into my bows. I have tried to submit my bows faithfully even if I knew there would be stiff competition. It's discouraging to see participation slide off and the pleasure of winning is certainly diminished by the lack of entries. I'd much rather lose 10 and win one with lots of great bows in the mix than to win 10 and lose one with only a couple of bows and a handful of votes.
I echo Del's sentiment of not complaining when I have little to add. I'm not in a position commit extra time to help out and I also really enjoy competing and feel that if I helped to organize then it wouldn't be right for me to enter.
We can't stop entering our bows or we are just driving the nails in the coffin of BOM. When I was just starting to make bows I would have never been very interested in entering BOM if I didn't see the best bowyers in the contest. I didn't care if I won or not but it was fun to see my bow up there with the other beautiful bows. If people are staying out of the contest because they are seeing Simon's awesome bows there every month then that is their problem, not Simon's. They should be stoked to go up against his bows, I know I am. We may not be able to change PA's mind about the subscription issue but we can put our energy into encouraging more submissions. I think if there was a concerted effort from the right people we could easily affect the numbers. I saw it happen a few months back when the Chris's got fired up about it. For one or two months we had a ton of bows and a ton of votes. We just have to sustain the energy for longer. I'm willing to do my part. I'll make sure to post on people's bows and encourage them to enter. The bow trades should help bolster the contest as well.
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I'm one of the newbies who ain't ever posted a bow yet but enjoy watching a lot!
it's sure hard for most to compete against the beauties that some of you "elephants" keep coming, but i think that if people like you simson, stop entering their work, that won't get the BOM nowhere, just makes it less interesting.
every time i see the new top notch bows it inspires me a lot for my own work. even though i won't ever reach a state to create such masterpieces, it's not at all discouraging - it awakens the appetite for carving!
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Thank you all for your interesting input! This is a good thread.
Like Weylin I like the BOM and I'm with him, it adds extra motivation to take part. I was here often, maybe too often. I don't want to be a wall for anybody, but I will support the BOM nonetheless.
I think it is good to make a pause for some months. But I promise, I'm here every month to vote for the best!
@ Derrick: You are welcome!
Don't hesitate to post your bows. I have waited way too long chiming in and did my thing alone the hard way. Don't do it like me.
Here is a great community, in case of you need help - you will get it here.
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I would hate to see the BOM go away and when I first came upon this site(2006) I was just amazed at peoples bows and the talent on display. Yet in the same breath the same people to seem to win all the time and yes their bows are awesome but someone who builds a great bow dose not have a chance competing with someone who is well known on the site or "part of the club" I do appreciate the time that Cip and all others have put in but I think this is one reason folks are not posting. just my two cents-Hammertime
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Sorry Hammertime, but I disagree with your statement about the in-crowd monopolizing the contest. I'm sure there are a few people that vote for bowyers they know but I think most of us genuinely vote for the bow we like the most. I can't tell you how many times I have voted for an excellent bow made by someone I didn't know when my friends had fine bows in the contest as well. I'd say if anything, many voters will take an opportunity to vote for a fresh face if their bow is good and they are up against a regular winner.
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Hammertime, I remember thinking the same thing when I first joined up. I even made a comment to my daughter in that regard when she asked if my bows would ever win. My wife heard me and gave me that scoffing sideways "yeah, right" look that wives are so good at giving. Having caught the look and not understanding the reason for it, I asked her "what was that for?". She got out a few issues and started pointing out things about the winning bows that set them apart and how my bows fell short of the high standard. I must admit that i didn't immediately appreciate her observations. Eventually I got to the point where I looked at it from an honest and unbiased perspective. Two things happened then. First I realized that my bows did fall quite short of the mark in comparison to most of the other entries. Second, I felt a bit guilty about selling the winners short. So I endeavoured to improve the quality of my work. Eventually it paid off. That inspiration is just one more reason I think we need to revitalize the BOM. I think it does encourage many to up their game. Simon, I never meant to imply that the frequent winners were in any way to blame. The fact that those few bowyers that win a lot have little competition is a symptom of the problem not the cause. Josh
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Glad someone brought this up, hope it can come back to life. I will say some of the frequent winner NOT posting for someone else to have a chance is not the answer. I don't finish many anymore and did stop posting any for a while because of the same reasons mentioned above but got to thinking that that was pretty arrogant of me to think I was giving someone else a chance by not posting. ??? So now if I ever do finish another I will post it. :) hats, what hats. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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I enjoy looking at the BOM , the thought never crossed my mind about entering the contest, which is the wrong way of thinking. I believe the people winning the contest deserve the credit of winning. There are a lot of talented bowyers out there like Weylin's with his hollow limb design that bow which by the way is a beauty, Bryce's yew character bow absolutely gorgeous, Simson bows are outstanding, and Chuck with his excellent horn bows, that's just to name a few I know there are a bunch of talented bowyers I didn't mention so forgive me. So for myself I would be honored to be in the BOM contest with these gentlemen. With that being said I will do my part to support BOM whether it be entering a bow, or by voting.
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I'm pleased to see this conversation being had properly.
Josh, your points are tremendously clear and I think valid on each account. Like rudeness, apathy is contagious.
I feel your point on subscription should be taken seriously. At least test it and evaluate the result for a specified period of time?
Simon, bowing out for a time is, in my opinion, the wrong thing to do. It will only make the problem worse. Frankly, I think I scrutinize bows from repeat winners more than an underdog bowyer, asking myself is this their best effort?
I had an issue with the contest going back over a year ago and felt burned and haven't entered, since. I'm guilty of not posting my work and am resolving to stop. It would be great to see more work being posted/entered by the "leading horses" from the years. I do not consider myself in this category! ;D
The third point is a tough one and I stand with you on your feelings, Josh, both for the man in charge and the sentiment. I applaud and respect any and all volunteer efforts but the event needs to be regular, otherwise it loses validity.
Since we are getting things out in the open, I'll add two things for consideration, respectfully.
1. There are moderators on the site that I haven't seen participate in years. Is it time for a little "new blood" to help freshen things up?
2. The hats. I know it is just a hat but it mattered to me and I felt like the one time I won, with little competition, I had to battle to get it. Is the issue multiple hats out to repeat winners? Perhaps some clarification needs to be made here along the lines of 1 hat a year to repeat winners? Should there be a specific person in charge of hats, alone? This has been a long term problem...
Just thinking out loud and trying to be helpful. I wouldn't mind being part of the solution, if volunteering time needs to be given, I can make time to contribute to this site that has been so valuable to me for the last 6 years. It would be time well spent.
BOM is a jewel for the magazine and this issue should be taken seriously. I've been focusing on knapping but I'm going to put my best effort forward to become an active bow contributor, once again.
Respectfully,
Stephen Parnell
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Apathy, the last bow i entered there were a total of 62-63 votes now i know there's way more members than that
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I can't tell you how happy I was when I won my first. At the time I had barely any posts, and hadn't yet met a single person on here, and was certainly not a part of the "in crowd".
I gained so much confidence early on, BOM has made me a better bowyer.
When I see guys who enter often, it inspires me to get into the shed and make some shavings.
Id love to see some of the PA regulars entering again.
I've considered backing out and letting others experience the joy of winning, but decided against it.
We need guys like Simson, Weylin, Carson, ect., to set the bar.
I think a lot of bows posted here by noobs could be winners, they just need to enter
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There have been some excellent comments and insights discussed here. Hope this can become a productive springboard to enhancing the BOM to its former glory.
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As mentioned above, my bows are not worthy, so I dont enter. I do like looking at the winners though.
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I want to encourage more of the new people to post their efforts for the BOM! I entered a bow once and it didn't kill me, and the comments I got were wonderful encouragement.
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I think it would be better if everyone would look at it as a way of showing everyone the improvement and share new ideas they were trying instead of going at it like it was a "winner take all" competition.
After all, I don't think you get hats anymore.
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After all, I don't think you get hats anymore.
Is that official or an assumption based on the lengthy and irregular means in which the hats are disseminated? Josh
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I think that is an assumption, I talked to Mike a few weeks back about another matter and reminded him he owed me a hat, he said he had been very busy ::) but didn't say anything about not giving them at all anymore. :) It's sure not about the hat but I think that has p!$$*( a lot off, I have plenty of them but still want what is promised. :)
Pappy
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It is to the point that BOM has become a burden for PA, that's obvious. Let it go away and give them what they want. It is their site and magazine after all.
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It is to the point that BOM has become a burden for PA, that's obvious. Let it go away and give them what they want. It is their site and magazine after all.
Is this the case? ??? If so, then they should make it clear.
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They promised hats in a timely manner over and over and over. It has never changed. In my opinion? Its quite clear they don't give two hoots about BOM or their word, Steve-o.
Id like to retract my earlier comments regarding entering again. I'm out 100% and will remain that way, not that it matters much.
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They promised hats in a timely manner over and over and over. It has never changed. In my opinion? Its quite clear they don't give two hoots about BOM or their word, Steve-o.
Id like to retract my earlier comments regarding entering again. I'm out 100% and will remain that way, not that it matters much.
I certainly understand why you feel that way. Hmmm. What to do? :-\
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It is to the point that BOM has become a burden for PA, that's obvious. Let it go away and give them what they want. It is their site and magazine after all.
I disagree, this is OUR site, and OUR magazine. I would hate to see BOM fall by the wayside. The more "lead horses" we have participating, the more interest it receives, and the more people it inspires.
Don't get me wrong, I understand your frustration PD, and it is sad that they cannot stand true to their word, but personally I don't do it for the hat. I do it because I like the challenge of competing against the best, it makes us all better when we get to see what the true craftsman, and artist are bringing to the table.
"The miracle is, the more we share, the more we have" -Leonard Nimoy
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I wont lead anything I don't believe in or trust in, A-a-ron.
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One thing I learned while recently at the International Association of Avian Trainers and Educators is that you always get the behaviors you prepare for. Example: You call your dog. Whether your dog comes or not depends on antecedent behavior. Antecedant behavior is everything that has happened leading up to the point where you call the dog. As the dog remembers whether it was rewarded or punished for coming to you in the past, it makes it's decisions based on risk versus reward. If the dog is ALWAYS rewarded for coming, the likelihood of the dog coming when called is HIGH. If SOMETIMES the dog is rewarded and other times punished, the likelihood is LOWER.
On the surface, P.A. may be reaping the behaviors they have set us up for by inconsistent rewards. But more importantly, what are we offering P.A. to get the behavior WE WANT?
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Our participation?
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what are we offering PA besides buying their magazine and supporting their advertiser's, gee I don't know jw. My peeve isn't about the hats it's about members not voting and face it how many guys are even on this topic?
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Thank you all for your interesting input! This is a good thread.
Like Weylin I like the BOM and I'm with him, it adds extra motivation to take part. I was here often, maybe too often. I don't want to be a wall for anybody, but I will support the BOM nonetheless.
I think it is good to make a pause for some months. But I promise, I'm here every month to vote for the best!
Simon, Your "Wall" is what all of us beginners need. Every time I think I am getting good, all I have to do is look at the monthly winners. Whether it is Wizardgoat, Simson, Mullet, or whoever that wins, I learn by looking at what you all offer. Some people get discouraged by not winning, but you learn a whole lot more by it. There are many very good bowyers on this site, and all of us with an open mind can learn from them.
Joe
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As mentioned above, my bows are not worthy, so I dont enter. I do like looking at the winners though.
I entered once and came in second! ??? You can win, don't sell yourself short.
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Ok, Last post on the matter. Perhaps changing up the "Prize" would stoke participation. PA could get with the advertisers and set up a prize of a "Gift card" for the winner. If I won a "Gift Card" for 3 Rivers, chances are I would spend more than the amount of the prize, its a win-win for the magazine and the advertiser. It could be a sponsored article every issue. Imagine the "Bingham Projects, Backed Bow of the Month" Or "Twin Oaks Bowhunters, Self-Bow of the month"! For a small advertising fee they can get an extra plug, as well as a guaranteed purchase from their site, and possibly a return customer. Worst case scenario is they have someone come and spend the money on the gift card, and nothing else, but to me, it is very unlikely. I have entered once, and came in second "I think" and my bow was a turd. But I at least lost to someone who no doubt crushes my skill (Simon). I'll step up my laziness and throw a few at it here soon.
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Folks, let me say first I'm glad this thread is still running and more and more chime in.
Second I have no problem to go back in the second row, really! Everything is ok, don't worry Doc, JoJo, Weylin and others. I just make a pause for some time and watch what is going on.
Third, I don't think we should talk about hats – when needed let's do that in another thread and adressed to the right people at the PA Mag.
Let me suggest to come back to the intended item: how can the BOM, or let's say our BOM vital again. There were already some good points said – let's continue. I would like to hear the thoughts others, those who were here and left for what reason? I remember there wer 20 + here per month!
I'm struggling with my English, so it is a bit difficult for me to express my thoughts – but I can follow this conversation. Thank you.
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Please don't take a back seat. You work is amazing to look at, and you deserve to win. You at the very least, deserve to participate.
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Please don't take a back seat. You work is amazing to look at, and you deserve to win. You at the very least, deserve to participate.
Jo, I will go on posting on the 'Bows' section. You will see what I'm doing.
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I don't want to get caught up on the hat thing but Josh's initial statement about apathy should be considered. What message is sent?
What it represents is being a part of something larger, and in that way, the hat is significant.
This is why I'm going to volunteer some of my time to help, if wanted.
Cheers, everyone.
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i just found out about your website simson, i'm hyped!
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A thought on opening it up to non subscribers - maybe subscribers who win get recognised for their subscription in the write up and some sort of prize, non-subscribers get the write up and kudos but nothing extra?
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As far as subscribing to the magazine it's pretty cheap and they do keep this site up that's a small price to pay
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Simon thank you for bringing this up.. I don't build bows.. I tried had some success and some failure.. Don't spend much time one it... But I do enjoy BOM and the bow forum.. I vote as often as I can.. I think we have some of the premeir builders on this site.. We will be worse off losing it.. Sometimes we got to shake the cage.. A little revolution is not a bad thing... Subscribing is not a bad thing everything costs money..
Thanks Leroy
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I've entered a few bows and I enjoyed the announcements in my email box. But as of recent I have been reluctant to post any bows on BOM or the regular forum, mainly because I really don't have the time to take the fancy pictures.
I will continue to build and share as much as I feel needs to be shared, from my end of the spectrum.
Josh, your points where straight through and I agree.
As far as I was aware the issue with the hats and the problems with people's subscriptions where due to a certain employee who is no longer over seeing that department. Once I was contacted about my decline to renew I was assured that things would go more smoothly as thus so far it has.
I enjoy the articles and the info provided.
I've won a few BOM's and got my hats, to which Iam grateful for the support and prize:D
If I build a bow truly worthy of the contest I promise to submit. But as of late, none seem to strike my fancy as such.
I vote for, not only the bow but the bowyer, if I see the same bow made by the same person over and over again. I will not vote for them. Instead I vote for the bowyer who goes against his own grain to explore the craft and the artistry.
-Bryce
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I just renewed my subscription. I would like a hat :). Not sure my bows will be worthy of the competition but I intend to participate in BOM. I have been observing for the past few years trying to build a bow worthy of the contest. If I wait to build one worthy, I may never participate. If more entries are required to keep it going, I am in. I have enjoyed viewing bows too much to see it go away.
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I remember Mike, president of PA, posting a number of years ago that the number of people who were subscribers as opposed to those that used this site was quite small, he was a bit distressed about this. The end result was the board was closed to subscribers only. That didn't work very well and it was quiet here.
I personally agree that subscribers only be allowed to participate. I do find that the way BOM is run could be improved. When Don was in charge it was timely and well run. He was retired though and could devote more time to it and I think that this is what is needed. I tried entering some bows a couple years ago and they weren't posted so I quit, maybe simplifying the process for entering would help. It would be a shame to see it go.
In any case it wouldn't kill one to maybe skip a vice or two for a week or so and subscribe, after all it's the magazine, in large part, that keeps this message board alive.
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I have to agree with everything Marc said. I think BOM is an important part of this magazine and needs to keep going. The barber shop really likes having the magazine for people to read when I was mentioned in it for one thing or another. And I know everybody that wins, whether the first time person or a multiple winner, benefits in someway seeing his accomplishment in an international publication, whether in praise from family and friends or the value of their bow craft increase in purchase price. I also donate all of my magazines when I get through reading them to the barber shop or leave them in the Doctor's office when I leave.
The hat deal is a pet peeve of mine since I get a lot of complaints from people that never received them or got them a year later, my self included. I'm owed one now from October of last year. Poor way of doing business in my opinion. Either do away with it or be more timely about sending them out.
I have bought subscriptions in the past for some that didn't have one when a lot of complaining was going on just to prove a point that it isn't that much of a cost. And the magazine makes next to nothing on all of the "over the counter" purchases.
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I could be wrong about this Eddie but it seems to me that Mike told me that the magazine was only going to be available by subscription in the future
The other option to participating, which may or may not work, is opening it up to all members but if one wins they have to get a subscription if they want their name and bow to be publicized. That may be more of a headache than it's worth though
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The winner should get a free subscription and never mind the hats. That would encourage participants and give the winner ownership of a magazine which he will be more inclined to repurchase than he was to purchase before.
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Just buy a damn subscription its about the cost of a case of beer for crying out loud, just get rid of the hats and just put the bows in the magazine. Jeeze this is getting old, they front this site which is the best bow forum around, you don't have to wade through ads everywhere come on people just grow a set and get over it. My pet peeve is the amount of guys voting get off your thumbs and vote!!! Buy a subscription, enter a bow and VOTE.
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The winner should get a free subscription and never mind the hats. That would encourage participants and give the winner ownership of a magazine which he will be more inclined to repurchase than he was to purchase before.
Well that would never fly
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I agree bubby.
What's all the pissin and groaning about. If you can afford wood and tools to make bows surely you can scrape up 2 bucks or a beer a month for a subscription.
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You know, Bubby, you have the best answer I've seen yet. I have hats I don't wear and could give a Rat's you know what if I get one, but,,,. Like I said above, just to get your bow and name in an international publication, is free publicity in it self.
I know I have benefited in the price I sell my bows or trade value for guns which I like just from BOM.
Just take out a subscription or quit complaining.
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after reading all this, I can't help but feel a bit disappointed in myself. I'm at best a total introvert, you know one of those guys that suddenly disappears within themselves when being in the spotlight. You'll notice I never post anything even though my wall is covered by bows. Point is, people like me should start posting more. I think it would help out tremendously. On a another note, I do disagree that the "leading horses" should continue to post their work and even enter BOM. I like a fair fight and if I'm going to whoop someone's a$$ I'd like to do it on my own merit :laugh:
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Oglala bowyer please do post pics of your bows and make comments at will, that can just make it better when there is more bow porn and opinions😉
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When Don started BOM it was more of a showcase for presenting your bow to the other members and not necessarily a competition. It has become more of a competition over the last few years and it seems that fewer folks are participating. Whether that be the reason or just a coincidence I don't know. I submit bows I've completed not to try to win BOM but to contribute to PA. I've won BOM 3 times over the years I've been on PA but I don't submit bows to BOM to win it.
BOM has been a pretty good draw for this message board and for subscriptions. It has also brought many folks into our bow building community. To me, the last being the most important. Winning a hat is nice but how many hats do any of us actually need. Being published in the magazine and on the PA message board should be plenty of a reward for doing what we love to do.
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I truely hope thst bom continues. I have never won and am often discouraged, but it inky inspires me to try and build better. That is the reason that i hope those of you that have won will continue to post you bows and enter them in the contest. A win without the best entered is not truely a bow of the ,onth, just a best bow that was entered. Dont lower the bar for the sake of others. Our society already does t b st enough.
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Dont lower the bar for the sake of others.
Once in a while we agree. ;D
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Read this and went out and bought a new subscription. Let mine lapse years ago because of a fight with trying to get issues that were never mailed to me or somehow 'LOST' in the mail. I've held out long enough and have been on-the-fense about re-upping my subscription for a long time. I know I missed some things I'd have liked to have had. Heck, they may screw me over again, but I guess they deserve another try...
OneBow
BTW - ...though I have NO expectation of building anything that ever could win, I'll even get an entry into the BOM well photographed and entered this year.
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If you have problems getting your subscription then the e-mag is an option, those never get lost in the mail.
It is a fact that the mag has gone to subscription only so those that were getting it off a newsstand will no longer be able to
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If you have problems getting your subscription then the e-mag is an option, those never get lost in the mail.
It is a fact that the mag has gone to subscription only so those that were getting it off a newsstand will no longer be able to
Didn't they just get a new distribution contract with a large expansion into WalMart and several other national chains? Dropping over the counter distribution sounds like a risky option, like giving up on finding new consumers. Hope they have a better grasp of the situation than I do, but it's their business and not mine.
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If you have problems getting your subscription then the e-mag is an option, those never get lost in the mail.
It is a fact that the mag has gone to subscription only so those that were getting it off a newsstand will no longer be able to
Didn't they just get a new distribution contract with a large expansion into WalMart and several other national chains? Dropping over the counter distribution sounds like a risky option, like giving up on finding new consumers. Hope they have a better grasp of the situation than I do, but it's their business and not mine.
News to me. Last I heard over the counter was history. Apparently there is very little money in it.
This is part of a reply from Customer Service to someone who was trying to register an account a week ago, I was asked to help We pulled out of the newsstands in November with our Dec/Jan issue and have gone to subscription only
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To keep it very simple, back when all bows submitted to PA site were entered in the contest it was more fun. 60 instead of 4 made it seem like more of a event.
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I'm one of the newbies who ain't ever posted a bow yet but enjoy watching a lot!
it's sure hard for most to compete against the beauties that some of you "elephants" keep coming, but i think that if people like you simson, stop entering their work, that won't get the BOM nowhere, just makes it less interesting.
every time i see the new top notch bows it inspires me a lot for my own work. even though i won't ever reach a state to create such masterpieces, it's not at all discouraging - it awakens the appetite for carving!
I agree with you Derrik. More competition, not less, is needed. And it's the up-building kind of competition that inspires people to get excited and improve their own work. I'm a newbie too, and haven't even scratched the surface yet, but seeing what can be done with time and dedication is very motivational.
Here are my thoughts on the situation:
-Participation in BOM is going to fuel interest, which will then fuel more participation. We need the dedicated regulars to make that happen.
-Another important factor is going to be consistancy. I run an online business, and I have learned that for people to remember you, you have to stay fresh in their mind and keep their attention. That means posting like clockwork. Pretty soon people find themselves checking their inbox or social media on a certain day for your latest news. Maintain a presence.
-As far as contestants go, I think it would be wise to allow all. Limiting the contest to subscribers is doing nothing but limiting the scope and reach of the BOM contest. By including more contestants, and possibly offering a subscription to new winners, you will increase interest in the magazine, and therefore increase subscriptions. Boom.
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Hi guys I'm new to site and new subscriber. I didn't reply to this post before because I didn't think I really had a right to and maybe I still don't but this is how I feel about bom.
For the time I have visited this site I really enjoyed it. It has good set up and really great people I like the rules I think it keeps the forum from becoming one of those reality TV shows were every body just fights and argues and you don't even know what show is about anymore. I also think it keeps "my kind of people" on it. Maybe that isn't all inclusive but I think still lot of variety and I like my kind of people.
I subscribed not to be able to enter bom but to be able to view bom!! I will probably try to enter some of my stuff not really expecting to win but I do feel even as a newbie I might have some ideas to show that others hadn't thought of. I really don't want bom to go away or the great ones to quit posting I want and love to see lots of really great works of shooting art!! I don't know if rules should allow non subscribers to enter but I doubt it would decrease subscribers. I do think it would increase enteries to bom. I also personally have I very hard time posting pictures to site. I admit I'm not very good on computer but I have lots of pictures I'd love to share and I'm not sure if I can even figure out how to post pictures to bom. I Thank You all for this site, post, and magazine I sure hope none of it goes away.
Brian
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Well I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents. First I'll say I haven't read every single post, so sorry if this has already been discussed. But may I point out the other "elephant" in the room. I've read a couple post basically stating they didn't feel good enough or felt as though they didn't have enough experience to submit a bow. This sounds a lot like the recent discussion of the PA bow trade mess. Meaning there has been in the past few years a fair amount of discouragement to new bow makers in both the trade and the BOM. When I started on this forum, nobody seemed to care if you made 100 bows or 1, you could submit to BOM.
So, I guess I feel about BOM the same as I do about the bow trade. Let's encourage everyone to join in. It's been said already, the more entries the better! Let's get back to an attitude of the more experienced helping the less experienced and simply enjoying one of our favorite past times together. The reason I have always loved this forum is that it does feel like family. Time to rally the troops and get everybody playing ball together again.
There...I'm done. Maybe there was more than 2 cents. ;)
Tattoo dave
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Del made a comment on the first page that resonates with me. I haven't read all the comments either so sorry if it's been beat to death. Limiting the contest to subscribers is counter productive to the magazine. There are so many good bowyers, so many good bows, so many people that want to enter but don't want to be obligated to subscribe. I think it would benefit the magazine and forum ten-fold to have a new bow style from a new bowyer and a new story/method every month.
As far as the competitive/difficult odds part, as in very experience bowyers vs new bowyers, I don't think that should matter or spark discouragement at all. Maybe it's just my personality type, but I don't get embarrassed or ashamed whatsoever. If my work is not winning material, oh well!! Gives me encouragement to try again. If another bowyer wins, I'd just want to admire and compliment their work. Not a moment of sleep lost.
I am exclusicely dedicated to this site. I don't use any other archery or primitive sites. I try to contribute as much as I can by actively posting bows, jigs, arrows, trades, comments, and compliments... But with that said, I don't want to feel obligated to subscribe to the magazine to enter BOM even though I'd love to participate.
I don't think the vises comments apply to everyone. I'm extremely disciplined with my "vises" and live my life on a very calculated budget so I can retire young and happy. No beer other than special occasions, no smokes, no internet in my home (other than phone), no magazines, no mainstream TV. I account for every penny spent, not out of starvation, but as a business owner, entrepreneur, and hopefully-young-retiree. What small amount I do allow for "fun money" is spent keeping my hobby alive. I'd rather watch from afar.
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I'm new to this whole bow building business too......three years experience building self bows and a couple of years on this forum. It has been a valuable resource for knowledge and camaraderie within the bowyer community. I have enjoyed and learned much from the BOM competitions.
But, my last entry for BOM was evidently lost in cyber space. I never heard from anyone or saw it listed in the monthly contests. Guess I should have followed up on it but it did kinda indicate that someone in the process must have dropped the ball. Perhaps there are problems behind the scenes that I'm not privy to but I would hate to see the BOM program dropped. And I would hate to see those that often win to drop out. Those bowyers win for a reason and their work is certainly an inspiration and set a worthy bar for which to attain.
Someone please keep this thing going and all of us pitch in to help make it happen with our support.
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I'm only commenting because I was asked to. Actually, I'm not sure what the question is, so I'll cover what I think is obvious.
1. The magazine thing is not an issue for me. I'd order the magazine regardless of BOM but when I've seen it on the news rack it looks a little skimpy for the price.
2. I love looking at any kind of handmade, custom work, whether wood, metal, or whatever and I appreciate what some guys put into their primitive bows. But its not my thing to dress them up, especially for a contest. Its a little like lipstick on a pig to me. I just want a bow that hunts, that is as plain and simple as possible. It never occurred to me to enter BOM and I've never voted for one. Still, I have nothing against it other than I'd like to see the whole movement lean toward hunting with primitive bows and away from the bows themselves, especially when it promotes non-trophy hunting.
3. Frankly, the other issue brought up about the hats, the timing of the contest, the possible biases, etc. are also issues with me to one degree or another and would be the straw that pushed me out, if I were on the fence.
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Here's my two cents.
In my case, I love to see the bows that win, but don't enter because my bows don't have a chance since I still consider myself to be a beginner. The bows in the contest looks to me like they are in the professional category.
As far as voting, we are all busy with lots of things going on. I wouldn't quite call it "apathy", more like "distraction".
One suggestion..... Perhaps there could be categories based on experience. Novice, intermediate, advanced and professional? Maybe based on number of bows built? Once a bowyer wins a number of times in a category, they would be automatically advanced to the next category? Maybe 5 wins?
This way, the categories would serve two purposes... Give more bowyers an opportunity to win the BOM and also provide a peer reviewed way for bowyers to advance through the the ranks.
As far as needing to needing to be a subscriber to enter the BOM, I really don't think that is an unreasonable requirement. Producing a magazine is costly and subscribers are needed to offset the costs. On the other hand, though, would allowing more bowyers to enter the contest help to increase the number of subscribers? I think it might.
Are more volunteers needed to help with the workload of PA and the magazine? Maybe having additional volunteers would provide the workforce to try out some new ideas?
Just a few random thoughts.....
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Making categories wont make better bowyers. If a fella wants to compete with the best you work your tail off until your work can compete with the best. If a guy is happy with his bows, that's all that matters. You cant fault a guy that pours his heart into every bow and makes them "perfect". Ive been around here a long time and have watched some guys excel from bent yard sticks to amazing works of art. In that same time frame Ive watched guys start with bent yard sticks and still make bent yard sticks to this day. I wont feel sorry for anybody that cant win BOM that is settled on mediocre work, to each their own. I didn't enter my first 50 bows, I knew better. I didn't ask for any special categories or judging, or ridicule those that can make gorgeous bows as elitists. I put my nose down, worked my ass off and got better at making bows! Motivation is easy to find, but its a lot harder to put to use.
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I was sent the e-mail, so I'll throw in as well. I voted for the BOM contest loyally for a long time. I voted for what bow I liked most---it often wasn't the best bow from a technical stand point and it almost never was from one of the "leading horses". Not a single bow I voted for ever won. If every single time my chosen bow didn't win, my vote didn't matter. If my vote didn't matter it wasn't worth my time. APATHY. When I would receive the e-mail reminder, I would delete it without looking at it.
It seems to me that limiting candidates to subscription holders only can only hurt things when the contest is having trouble drawing enough interest in the first place. You need fresh blood, not a small stock of diminishing people. Talented bowyers holding back their work is also not good. Winning is much less satisfying when you know the deck is stacked to favor you or when talented competition is withheld.
I was a subscriber for many years, but let my subscription lapse for 2 main reasons. 1) I didn't have time to read it. I was working about 70 hours a week and have many unopened copies put away still in their mailing packaging. 2) I found one particular reoccurring author to be highly annoying. I don't give a care about someone's expensive, guided elk hunt that he had to travel to another state to do. That's not hunting in my opinion---that's wanting bragging rights and the desire to kill. I want to read about the guy who jumps into his pickup, drives for a little while and takes a white tail or grouse or maybe just a rabbit in his backyard. I enjoyed all the other articles, but that one guy at the beginning left a sour taste for all that followed. The how to's and build-alongs were the gems.
I can't really comment on how efficiently the BOM was being run since I ignored it, but I do recognize that it takes a lot of effort---much more than most would imagine---to take on such an undertaking.
I just bought a new subscription and promise to at least vote for BOM until it runs out. The magazine really is much better than all the other popular journals and the BOM contest helped to make it stand out a little more.
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I have identified the problem. The verification is to difficult.
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I can't say I ever paid much attention to the BOM contests, Probably because Im not a subscriber. I'm going to fix that though. A subscription is a small price to pay for the wealth of Bowyers knowledge contained on this site.
I would like the the contest to include all the best bows, otherwise it's not much of a contest. Even if they are not subscribers. I think it would raise interest in the mag if you wernt a subscriber but your bow was featured in it.
Perhaps there doesn't need to be different categories for backed and self? Would that stream line it a bit?
As far as hats...
I don't know if there needs to be a hat distributed for winners. A man only needs so many hats. Maybe just a certificate? Or a promo code for a few dollars off your next subscription? (The same amount as the cost of a hat) :)
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I really don't know what to say on this, at this point. I'm simply getting the feeling this isn't wanted or valued much by the organization. Cipriano is a great guy and has my respect.
I volunteered to help. I haven't heard anything. It'd be great if the event could be salvaged but I'm not chipping in, again.
At this point, it's all rhetoric to me. Hope something is done.
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I'm not a subscriber, I would be if I had "extra" money. I will as things improve in the future. I do try to contribute as much as I can regarding topics in my area of expertise.
As for BOM, I voted some in the past, but have been sidetracked lately and haven't even looked at BOM. It is a great feature, event, topic, whatever you want to call it. I do think not considering "non-subscribers" eligible to participate hurts interest participation and in the end subscriptions.
If interest is increased, subscriptions will also. If a non subscriber wins, you bet they want to join to see it in print.. Just my 2 cents, that's all I have..
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Making categories wont make better bowyers. If a fella wants to compete with the best you work your tail off until your work can compete with the best.
I agree 100%.......to excel at anything, you have to put your nose to the grindstone and earn it.
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I think we were fortunate that Don had carried it for so many years. A of of work goes into something like this and it would be difficult for anyone person to remain motivated for any length of time. Without a good amount of redundancy in those who can carry the program it will always be at risk of deteriorating. My best suggestion would be to try and build a small committee of guys who can handle it where they can help each other and if need be carry each other over the humps. I noticed a big change in the participation when subscriptions were required to enter but I don't blame the magazine for asking that. Not really that much to talk about when it comes to wood bows that hasn't already been talked about so just showing off well done bows will always be a strong feature for the magazine.
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Love bom :-[
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Everytime this comes up it's always a small group that can spend time on the computer and building bows but can't afford $20. Do you smoke, drink a beer? Who do you guys think pays for this site? This magazine makes no money from over the counter sales. And, this group I'm talking about backs up what I'm saying, they buy over the counter, pay more money for it and still will not get a subscription.
I've read through some of the post and the same arguments come up, popularity, bias, I just build plain bows, it's a photography shoot, same old crap and the same old whinning.
Just get a subscription. before they make the site for subscription only. After all, they have to make money.
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👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
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You go Eddie. ;)
Pappy
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Well, I gladly re-upped my subscription for 2 years and I've heard from Cipriano. I'm going to start helping him putting together the entries and the collages. I have plenty of free time so I'm glad to be of service.
I'll be working on helping out the timeliness of the event, as best I can, fellas.
Cheers.
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I always re-up two years at a time so my refried brain doesn't have one more thing to remember.
Way to step up Steve-O! You're a good man.
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Well said Eddie but I would disagree on the "small group". It's a small group that support the mag by subscribing. I remember all the people that vented against the mag when the board went private.
The original purpose for this message board when it was created was as a support for the magazine, that is to say subscribers could come here and ask questions specifically about the mag
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Thanks, Steve.
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You're a good man Steve! I just re-upped and submitted one. Josh
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Thanks Parnell! Just sent you a PM.
I sent Calendergirl a PM a few days ago asking if they were going to be at the Classic and if I could purchase a subscription there. I haven't heard back yet. My E-subscription runs out this summer.
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I always re-up two years at a time so my refried brain doesn't have one more thing to remember.
I didn't know that I signed up for two years, but I did, and will again in October when I come due.
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Once I got used to not having that $3 per month in my families income, it was okay.
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Wow. Where to start. I know I haven't posted a bow or really been on the bow forum for over a year. Mostly just flintknapping. I have posted bows on BOM in the past although they didn't win it was still a good experience. I try to vote as often as I remember too. Thanks for the email that remind us!!!!! Most all the good points have already been made. I need to be more active and have got back into the wood shop and am making some sawdust again. Hope to have some finished soon. Also BOM was one of the reasons that I started my subscription years ago, along with everything else the mag offers. Maybe some day I'll win but if not I'll keep trying. Keep up all the good work you all do, it doesn't go unnoticed!
Knapper
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Let me try to sum some notes and add some suggestions. Some points would cause a change in the BOM rules. Maybe a voting page would be good … don,t know.
Please post your bows, here should be as many bows as possible to vote on.
Everyone who is interested in this category should definitely vote, it takes only a few minutes
1. you can take part at BOM with a bow posted on the PA forum in the specific month, not with older or newer bows. (Yes/No)
2. you can take part with as much bows you like, wether in the self bows or in the backed bows section. (Yes/No)
3. everyone can take part, no need to be a subscriber – but would be fine if so. This site is the mag's site and after all there are costs. Every subscriber helps the mag and this site! (Yes/No)
4. The 'prize' for the win is a needle (or medal, sticker, etc. ….) to stick on a hat or a vest. Advantage is low cost and easy shipping. (Yes/No)
5. Only subscribers can get a prize. (Yes/No)
6. The voting time is the first and the second week of the following month, there should be a definite end of voting – let's say the 15th (Yes/No)
7. On the voting page should be a reminder pic (f/d), this makes it easier to decide. Like in former times. I know it's more work for Cip (+ volunteers) (Yes/No)
8. There should be a clear definition between self and backed bow category. Only bows with a strength adding backing is backed bow. Rawhide backing, snake or fish skin backing, feather backing belongs to the self bow category (the rules should be changed in this point, imo). (Yes/No)
9. For comparison it is best to take 4 profile pics of your bow: Back, Side, Braced, Drawn (Yes/No)
10. For those (Cip + helper(s)) who organize the BOM should be an appreciation every year or so.
Idea: the guy with the most BOM wins is invited for a give away. (Yes/No)
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Thanks Steve for stepping up and lending Cip a hand.
I'd like to see BOM continue and see participation numbers go up. I see several guys on here that make good bows but never enter them. Its up to you to decide if you want to enter or not. just saying I'd like to see your bow in there no matter what you made. Having more entries to vote on each month would make it more interesting and you might be surprised to find out that someone appreciates your work enough to cast a vote for it. I haven't been entering to often lately but will continue to enter at least a few bows each year but hope to see some new guys enter their bows as well.
I also think the monthly feature in the magazine adds to the interest in the publication. I think it adds a common man attraction to the field of outdoor and hunting magazines that often only show features of so called professional hunters. Its interesting to see the talented work of regular people displayed and commented on in the pages of PA.
As far as requiring an individual to have a subscription to enter, personally I think it is a small price to pay and a good way to show appreciation to the ones who run the site that brings so many good people together to share a common interest.
I think we all get more than our money's worth from the website as well as the magazine.
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Orrrr,,, how about if it's open to everybody, but if you don't have a subscription, it's just like viewing the site without one. You can read about your bow but can't look at the pictures?
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Hi.
I didn't find the time to read all posts, sorry. Read one here and other there...
But I think that BOM should continue.
The online subscription isn't expensive at all, I think it's worth it.
I don't know why so few people submits their bows to BOM contest.
...
Just my opinion
:) regards
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I have to admit that I've ignored the BOM contest during the couple years that I've been on this forum. Just the contest, not the superb bows that are posted on here, some of which deservedly end up winning the contest. I've made about 30 bows, love making and shooting them, but honestly I'm still too intimidated to enter one in BOM yet. But I'm glad that I've posted a few of them and getting good feedback on them is really gratifying. A kind remark or some advice on how to make my next one better by the veteran bowyers on here goes a long way.
I had an E subscription but let it lapse, but I just subscribed to the hard copy. Probably better, because sometimes I'd forget about the E-mag ::) That's the least I can do for a forum that I've learned so much from and that features the most incredible wooden bows I've ever seen. Now I just have to remember to vote for BOM. :)
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That is all you can really do, GB except contribute a few of those 30 bows or future bows you have built. Any bow that shoots is a lot better then one that won't.
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It's been years since I entered a BOM. I stopped entering because I found I enjoy making simple bows and focusing on refining my techniques to make my bows as close to my idea of perfect as possible. A pleasing line, a belly that mirrors the pitch and yaw of a back, a pair of gently curving string grooves that are perfect mirror images - these are what give me pleasure now a days. But such nuances are difficult to capture in a photo and, frankly, aren't that important so I stopped entering. I'm sad that BOM seems to be slipping away. There are so many more bowyers on this site than when I started and the variety, creativity and quality of the bows is amazing. I won a number of BOM contests in the past and I was happy for it, but I love seeing the newer generation of bowyers taking our craft to heights that I couldn't imagine when I began and being recognized for it. I expect there are a few other "old-timers" like me who have quit participating for their own reasons. But if entering bows in BOM can help this site in some small way, I'm happy to do it again and I encourage others who are in a similar place to do the same.
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I'll enter the next one that I'm really happy with, Eddie. It may be awhile ::)
It's always a treat to see one of your bows on here, Gordon, whether it's for BOM or not.
I like Simon's idea of a small pin or button for BOM. No idea on the cost to make those, but I'd think it would be less than a hat?
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Gordon, I don't think anyone has ever had a problem seeing your "eye candy". Please post some more.
Like you I have not posted a bow in awhile except for October, and then just because there wasn't enough bows posted. I'm into refining bows, also.
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Thanks Steve for stepping up. I talked to Marie the other day and the crew is all supposed to be at the Classic, that might be a good time to discuss this face to face and see how they really feel about it and if the even care if it carries on or not, :-\ if not so be it but if so maybe we can get some of the kinks worked out in person. ;) I am on here a lot and do a lot of business by email but still rather work out problems out face to face instead of email or on line chatter. ;)
Pappy
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Thanks Steve for stepping up. I talked to Marie the other day and the crew is all supposed to be at the Classic, that might be a good time to discuss this face to face and see how they really feel about it and if the even care if it carries on or not, :-\ if not so be it but if so maybe we can get some of the kinks worked out in person. ;) I am on here a lot and do a lot of business by email but still rather work out problems out face to face instead of email or on line chatter. ;)
Pappy
Very good, Pappy. You certainly have a point. See you soon and in good form.
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I actually did read the majority of the posts. A lot of good points made. I do like Simon's idea of making the prize a pin instead of a hat. Maybe make it a different pin every year. Much more cost effective and easier to get out to the winners.
I'm on the fence about having to be a subscriber to enter BOM . Part of me says it will get more people involved and promote the site more. Say a nonsubscriber wins, it will promote their family members and counterparts to purchase magazines to view their success (although there are no more over the counter sales?...I used to get mine from tractor Supply before I subscribed). On the hand I think it is a truly minor donation to actually subscribe to the magazine and support this community.
I love looking at the BOMS and I always vote. I have no resentment towards repeat winners. They build bows that deserve to be BOM. I am a very competitive person...always have been. I believe people should earn their place in this world in every facet...this includes being a Bowyer. This being said....you guys better watch out cause I got a good one I'm entering in April! ;) (I may even fly wizaedgoat or pinecone to the east coast to photograph my bow, maybe bring Carson out to do the shirtless sky shot pose ;D)
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ajooter, I'm looking forward to seeing your bow and glad to see some new blood.
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Just bear with us , I think this is all going to work out. I know it is hard sometimes but try and keep a good attitude about it /some very good suggestions here and I think the powers to be are ready for a change to get it back on track. Its a lot of work for those that take care of this and if they don't stay enthused about it, it all falls apart and I think that is what has happened of the last few years, burn out or just not really having the time to devote to it. Hopefully that will change soon so bear with us and then post them bows. ;) :) :) :) Thanks for all your input it has been a big help and I think opened a few eyes to the problems. :)
Pappy
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That is good news on a Friday morning, Pappy. :)
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I'm glad to see this is taking an encouraging and proactive turn. Thank you, Steve, for stepping up and helping out. I'm sure that will make a huge difference. And thank you, Pappy, for speaking up with the magazine folks and helping to make some changes. If we all just work together to encourage forum members to enter their bows, that should help too. It would be a shame to lose the contest. I know it's the first thing I flip to in the magazine when I open it, whether I'm in it or not.
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Thank you Parnell and Pappy
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I have not kept up with this conversation, but did have some thoughts on this since reading the first couple pages awhile back. Forgive me if this idea has already been brought up.
What about two classes of BOM contest, a Professional and an Amateur? The idea being that those who have already won their share, would not feel obligated to step back from the contest, and those that are new to bow-making would not face daunting competition and would be more likely to enter. We would have to self determine whether or not we are amateur or professional, but I would suggest that a guiding criteria could be around making bows for sale, or if we needed a harder line, we could use criteria of have you been invited to the PA invitational bow trade. I imagine that it would sort out pretty well though just letting folks just decide for themselves.
The drawbacks of this would be that it would require some more work from the folks that are doing all of the work to make BOM contest happen, and of course, if it does not lead to more entries, then we would have even less entries per category.
I personally love the BOM contest. That really set the hook for me when I opened up my first copy of PA magazine. Thanks to all of those that help make it happen.
I also like Simson's idea of a pin.
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Not a bad thought Carson, I like the pin idea as well, can artach them to quivers or possible bags
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Carson, I like the pins, also. I think seeing someone's very first bow along side of a 4 or 5 time winner gives a good perspective for a new Bowyer to shoot for and "up" his/her game. I think anybody that has the gumption to post a bow knowing it might not stand a chance of being picked,(I purposely did not say win), says a lot for that person and trying to get better at their new addiction. I think that once you make a bow that shoots, you've figured out the hard part. After that you just learn how to tune them, make different styles, pretty them up and learn better photography skills.
And, I think you are right, it's hard enough for someone to do BOM on a regular basis while juggling Family and job to start another category.
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Ok, I voted on the most recent BOM. Is it all better now? And just in case this isn't all about me, did we see better turn out for the vote?
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Yes we did jw 174 compaired to the last time i entered wgere there was like 62 votes
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I entered my Survivor bow in the April backed BOM I really don't expect to win but I'm proud of my bow and wouldn't want to go up against anything but the best they can throw at it. I'm gonna keep on working on them, I've learned so much already. It's nice to have people that really don't know anything about bows tell you your bow is beautiful but it feel a thousand times better hearing the guys on here tell you it's nice.
PS I like the pin idea too
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Yes we did jw 174 compaired to the last time i entered wgere there was like 62 votes
;D