Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Cave Men only "Oooga Booga" => Topic started by: Coo-wah-chobee on February 25, 2008, 06:18:26 pm
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........This will be a traditional seminole bow with a few changes. I didnt have cypress handy ( gotta get some ) so its carrotwood (Cupaniopsis anacardioides ). Carrotwood was planted in the 50's here as a ornamental. Unfortunately its invasive ! Oops ! Iam also makin' this with stone tools not steel. Other than these differences it will be pure traditional like was made ta kill game and er---foks ! I could not sleep last nite so I worked on it all nite. Its ta floor tiller and ya can see I heat treated the belly over a firepit. My neighbors musta loved that at 4 am ! ;D Stone axe, basalt, seashell scraper, and coral rock( fer the sanding.) Nocks were cut with seashell. Next step will be ta smoke it good over a firepit then sinew back it with hawg sinew and hawg hide glue. Greasy but I know the ole way ta remove most grease. Have made many bows with it (hawg sinew ) and its strong as heck ! Its 48 " ntn and will pull about 50 lbs @ 26 ". Rawhide "tree rat " string with hair left on. Pine pitch sealer over sinew back ta make it mostly waterproof. Damm Iam tired today ! Will shoot cane arras with seagull one fletch fer feather, foreshafts and seashell points I will knap ta a razors edge. Small 1 1/2" x 7/8" er so. More ta come............bob
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Bob she looks good, thanks for taking the time to do this.
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......I forgot ta say it holds a bit of reflex about 1". Dims are 1 1/4" at center taperin' ta 1" at tips........bob
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SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!! was just gettin ta work on an elm bow so i could post it here . now i dont have ta ;D
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Thanks Bob. I would like to make one someday
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...Yes ya DO Jamie ! Post the elm bow ! ;D........bob
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That's a cool looking little bow .How long is it ?From the door behind it I'd guess four foot nothin' .
Ralph
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Ralph-----its 48" ntn . Thought I put that in original post. Gotta look maybe I didnt ? :o Yup 4 foot nuttin' ! ;D...bob
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Awesome, Bob. Looks like it's going great so far, looking forward to seeing the rest of the process. Carrotwood? Better watch out for them rabbits when you lay it down. ;D
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This sounds great Bob. I cant wait. Justin
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Bob , she looks great ... should be some good medacine in that piece of wood ..... Happy hunting Bro... Mike A/ho
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This is gonna be interesting - get some sleep so you can carry on ;D.
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Ok here are shafts that I will fashion inta arras ta go with bow. 6 cane arras were straightened over a firepit today. Beautyberry ta make foreshafts, example of unfinished one in pic an 2 beautyberry branches. Osceola turkey tail feathers (had no seagull-its ok osceola was more commonly used ) and sinew components. Next will be ta split cane put in feathers, sinew and nock them. Then make foreshafts and fit ta shafts. 3 broadheads, 2 blunts an 1 skipper. More ta come. ;)......bob
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oh this is gonna be great. can't wait. thanks for doing this, bob.
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Bow and arrows? All with stone tools? SWEET ;D!!!
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This is really cool Bob thanks
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bob,
i was wonderin' when ya were gonna get some of your stuff on here!!!
that little bow is great,hows she bending?
i thought my work was getting good...and you come along with some coconutty fibers, a seashell,and a rock and poof. dinner!
"esti"
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Cool project Bob. Looking forward to it! Pat
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"Esti"-I think yer stuff is pretty good. Bow is ta floor tiller ( bendee good ) ;D gonna smoke it and sinew it before I finish tiller it.thx....bob
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Great Stuff. Can't wait. :)
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This is neat. Me like! :)
Sean
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Bob,
I've got a good bit of cypress lumber over here in Cape Coral you're welcome to pick through, if you ever want to do this again with cypress. E-mail me at toddrobbinsus@yahoo.com if you want any. How's that carrotwood work? I scrapped a couple of really nice tree trunks after hurricane Charlie. :( How did this finished project turn out?
Todd
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Yeah,wheres the rest a this story?
The other Todd
???
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The project is in the works fellas. Smokin, 3 courses of sinew and then dryin' sinew let alone the wood takes time. Will update as soon as I have somethin' ta tell ya and show. More ta come ...........bob
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Thx Todd for offer but I have plenty of cypress just havent gotten out there. Carrotwood is a good bow wood have made some bows with it. The tree is invasive + this one was in way and got hit by lightening. Thank you Great Spirit ! ;D.....bob
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Bob
Never heard of carrotwood. Is that the tree carrots grow on? ::)
Nice project
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Bob....do you have any Carrot Wood that you would want to get rid of ....for lets say Shipping and such???? Let me know.......I know what Invasive is....they planted Salt Cedars here in the 60's for Soil Erosion purposes...now they are clogging up all of the small Streams and River Banks....threatening to suck up all of the Water...they are so thick that you cant even walk through them....
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Bob
Never heard of carrotwood. Is that the tree carrots grow on? ::)
Nice project Ha ! Yes thats tree carrots grow on ! ;D Its called carrotwood Marc because when its first cut it smells like carrots and has the same orange color then it fades. ;DBob....do you have any Carrot Wood that you would want to get rid of ....for lets say Shipping and such???? Let me know.......I know what Invasive is....they planted Salt Cedars here in the 60's for Soil Erosion purposes...now they are clogging up all of the small Streams and River Banks....threatening to suck up all of the Water...they are so thick that you cant even walk through them....
Yankee I dont have any now but when I get some will let ya know. It was planted here as an ornamental and the county says by 2010 all have taken be out even dooryard trees. No native vegetation will grow under it and it grows very fast. Fauna cant use it and it provides no food er shelter fer them. Dont ya luv developers and the State. Oops ! sorry we made a mistake ! ::)RIGHT !!!!............bob
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Thanks...just keep me in mind...I would love to try a Piece of it...as long as it's not illegal to send the dead Wood.... I am looking for some Mesquite to build with...but I am having a Hard Time finding any that doesn't have so many branches on it...that you cant build a Bow from it...plus I have heard that it need to be backed also....but I am still going to try my luck at it!!
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Yankee , I heard on another forum , that mesquite root was sometimes used . They apparently are much straighter . Would involve some diggin' though ... Maybe look for a mesquite bush growing on the side of a steep hill or creek bank, so the digging will be easier ?
Ralph
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Hey....thats an Idea....I know where there is about 10,000 acres of ranch land that they just uprooted every Mesquite for as far as you can see...and pushed them all up into piles....I need to see if I can get permission to go scavenging!!
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Ok I got some time last coupla days so here is the tree rat hides with hair I will make 2 strings outta. Been fleshed dried and cut into rough circles with a sharp and I mean SHARP stone flake. Next step is ta cut string thongs and make 2 strings fer the bow. More ta come....bob
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I've had tree rat hide strings in the back of my mind for awhile now bob - this will be interesting to see :).
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We would have to have trees to have tree rats. How about rock rats, is that alright Bob. ;D
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These are fox tree rats. Course they are illegal ta hunt in florida. ::) Ya know Justin, I dont see why rockchuck (Woodchuck ) and badger would not work. Hides on critters are different. Fer instance grey rats are worthless IMO. Ya need fox NOT red tree rats (too small ) ! ;D. Deer and such are ok (read crap here). Have used woodchuck an workee good. Fox rat strings have lasted me almost 1000 shots. Damm here come the arguments ! :o Try em and see........bob
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We have woodchuck, or rockchuck as we call them since they like the lava rocks so much. But I was talking about grey squirrels, they live in rocks and burrows around here. No tree squirrels around here. Justin
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We have woodchuck, or rockchuck as we call them since they like the lava rocks so much. But I was talking about grey squirrels, they live in rocks and burrows around here. No tree squirrels around here. Justin
.........Betcha wood chuck would workee good ! Grey ground tree rats hmm...maybe gotta try them I guess got no experience with em...............bob
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What about regular old swamp rats ? Or possums even ?
Ralph
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Possum didnt workee good fer me as didnt swamp rats...bob
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Ok so I did some more work on the hides that will be strings. Since I wanted to accomplish two things with this build-a-long i.e.:make a traditional seminole bow and arras, and 2: use only stone tools and paleo materials as we know them and make a archery system that we THINK ? was made maybe this way back then. Ok too the strings. I used a sharp and I mean SHARP obsidian Hoko knife ta cut the strings. I like flakes better usually but in this case the Hoko gives ya better control and leverage. This is enough fer one string. Each strand is 15' long by say about 1/16" wide hair left on- its the ole' way. Why ? Its quicker and that was important. This method takes patience not ta "screw" up and make a cut 2 narrow. Took about 2 hours ta cut the strands. Next I will wet, stretch, twist and stretch again an dry ta make strings and finish it off and preserve it. That will be one string. The spare will be made the same way. ;) More ta come ........bob
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Hahaha ! Notice red in middle of pic ? Thats my BLOOD :o from hoko knife forgot ta say that.......bob
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Nice Bob. Thanks for showing your tools also. I need to make some more tools. Justin
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bob when you cut your strips do you do it free hand or use some type of guide?
I'm guessin ya did it free hand :)
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Nice work Bob, I've enjoyed this and looking foward to seeing more.
Alan
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So the strands are 15' X 1/16". I don't have a clue about how this is done (well maybe a clue ;D) - can't wait to see how she's twisted :)..
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Dana yer correct. I do it freehand. Iam workin' on strings in backyard . Any enviroment will do ya need ta be resourceful with all these projects.....bob
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Holy cow! Or should I say squirrel? I had trouble cutting strips with pencil lines and scissors :P. That's amazing!
Do you use any plant fibers for strings, or is rawhide that much stronger?
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Kegan...I use rawhide but I think plant fibers are stronger or should I say ta be correct last longer. In plant fibers I use bromeliad, coconut, banana and nettle. I prefer coconut cause its readily available and waterproof. Rawhide from fox tree rats lasts 1000 shots fer me. Holy S#*^ here come the arguments ! Rawhide is NOT waterproof and stretches some in the humidity er in the rain. Who cares ? Not me I just adjust the string. Like the freehand huh ? Use a sharp obsidian flake set in a stick ta make a hoko knife and it works better than a sisszor. After a while ya get real good at it and the obs just looks at ya waitin' ta cut ya , a added bonus ! ;D (yer blood )yummy ;D .........................bob
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8) 8) 8)
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Kegan...I use rawhide but I think plant fibers are stronger or should I say ta be correct last longer. In plant fibers I use bromeliad, coconut, banana and nettle. I prefer coconut cause its readily available and waterproof. Rawhide from fox tree rats lasts 1000 shots fer me. Holy S#*^ here come the arguments ! Rawhide is NOT waterproof and stretches some in the humidity er in the rain. Who cares ? Not me I just adjust the string. Like the freehand huh ? Use a sharp obsidian flake set in a stick ta make a hoko knife and it works better than a sisszor. After a while ya get real good at it and the obs just looks at ya waitin' ta cut ya , a added bonus ! ;D (yer blood )yummy ;D .........................bob
Thanks! I've begun a milkweed string, which, at the moment, seems much stronger than a similiarly sized rawhide string (the individual threads that is). Hoko knife huh? Looks like it would really do the trick! You're really helping us all out with this build along ;D!!
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nice. but your wrong about tree rats >:D
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Nope.Not about fox tree rats. Greys arent worth crap. Ifn ya usin' them ya aint gonna get about 100+ shots outta a string. I use fox 4 strand fer 50 + lb. bows and 6 fer bows 60 lbs er so. The hides are different the fox is much stronger......bob
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Bob, Great thread. ;) 8) Would you show your technique for stripping the strands. When I had the leather shop we used to make our own lace with circles of leather. We would put a nail in the center and use a draw gauge to strip lace as the leather circle pivoted on the nail.
We have gray skirlz(and a white variety from Austria I think) plus "Boomers"( red skirlz.) We also have ground hogs. Pat
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:D I love it Bob "Carrotwood" gonna have to check the book and see if we have been invaded yet..It was avocado you sent me right?
I like it.
My brother-in-law is a developer. He uses tape to keep the horns from popping out of his skull. :o ;D
Rich
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:D I love it Bob "Carrotwood" gonna have to check the book and see if we have been invaded yet..It was avocado you sent me right?
I like it.
My brother-in-law is a developer. He uses tape to keep the horns from popping out of his skull. :o ;D
Rich
Rich..believe I sent ya sweet orange from my neighbors yard. Was invadin' my space ! ;D Carrotwood is Cupaniopsis anacardioides. Its an evergreen and I believe originally came from "down under." Ha ! Had a family member that was on of those ! >:(...........bob
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Pat........when I make second string I will show ya my less than modern way of makin' strands. Will finish up 1 st string first since I am part way there. ;) Okee dokee ?...............bob
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okee dokee! ;D Pat
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Bob, Carrotwood is growing all over the place here! :o The book says its listed on Florida's State list of Noxious Weeds! It's all over the neighborhood.
Looking at it, never would have thought it would be good. I bet there's a lot of species common to both of our regions. They invaded your area, and the rich folks here imported them in the 1800's since the climate here is quite mild, and to dress up their mansions.
Rich-Thanks Bob! ;D
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I have been a little distracted the past week, sorry foks. A youngin' that is seriously ill wanted ta go bowfishin' with me. So fer me that takes priority over this build-a-along. Hope y'all understand. Iam makin' him a bow ta go fishin' with but the relevant thing here is I used the leftover fox rat hide ta make him a 2 strand string fer his bow. So here it is ta keep this thing goin' and "waste not want not !" ;) ;D. Ta be continued, the build- a- long that is ........................................bob
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Great looking string Bob. I guess you wont be needing any beaver fur silencers on that one. ;) Justin
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Yup thats a furry string, bob hope you and yer little buddy get some fish and we'll
be here when ya get to around to finishing yer build along.
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Bob, that is one fine looking string. I hope you get some fish. I know you made the kids day, and that's what matters most.
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Bob, Great looking string. The Fox squirrel Bob is talking about is not the red ones up North of us. They are indengent to Florida and stand about 2' tall on there hind legs. They live in ranch pasture land with tall pines.
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So these are not like the Furry Fox Squirrels I have in my Yard here in Texas????This is my One-eyed Buddy
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and His Friends
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Hahaha ! Yer one eyed buddy looks like real warrior ! ....bob
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Bob.....He is a Warrior...and He knows it....even with One Eye....He has Big Balls!!! Are these the same Foxes you have down there??? I found Him when He was all beaten...and nursed Him back to Health and let Him Go....so he still remembers Me....and comes and eats Nuts from my Hand....wont let me Touch Him....but he will come to me....and Barks at me if I dont feed Him!!
Oh ....ah....Nice String too...but stay out of my Yard would ya!!!!! I like My Squirrels with their Hides!!!! ::) ::)
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Yankee ..............they dont look the same like Eddie said. Fox tree rats (that we call here ) are HUGE like Eddie said . BE aware that they are protected here and ya cant harvest one ! ::) That bein' said try those ta see how they work fer ya. Woulndt want wifey ta see me takin' those in yard ! :o Some guys even use greys so its up ta ya bud !........bob
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Great buildalong Bob, I just found it. Have you made any gut strings? Steve
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Yes Steve I have made gut strings in the past.....bob
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Ok I went a little out of sequence here because of time restraints. Here is the spare string fer the build-a-long bow. I will go step by step on the 1 st one ta show ya how I do it. This one is 4 strand/ 64" long as will the 1 st one be. String then cane shafts with beautyberry foreshafts I hope that will be sequence. Still more ta come much more as a matter of fact ! ;D Happy holiday everyone .....................bob
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Cool string. I tryed to make a groundhog string and failed. Look forward to trying again. Next time I won't leave any narrow spots.
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Yank, Like Bob said the one's we have are a lot bigger. Some are real blond colored or darker with a black bandit mask across their eyes. The tails are about the same length as their body (16 to 24") long. I would take a picture of the mounted one I have but my camera is packed and I'm getting ready to pack the laptop, Eh? Leaving in the morning, Eh?
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Well Bob....I just had to try a Sinew String last night....since you posted the Rawhide one here...I have never made one before....and I doubt that I will again....thats a Pain In The Arse....never again!!!!
And keep rubbing it in Bob....Take Off Eyh!!!!!
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Bob's not leaving, Eh, Eddie is.
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My Bad....sorry Eddie...wrote Bob ....was too busy drooling over that Rat String!!!! >:D
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Ok movin' alone however SLOWLY ! Must be infected with the "modern time is precious disease ! " ARRA BUILDIN FROM SHAFTS' ! I dont have a chickee in the backyard and didnt have time ta drive out ta huntin' camp where there is one ta do this, so I will use the firepit ya see in background. Same same. What ya see are components and tools ta build arras outta cane shafts. 6 cane shafts that have ta be straightened again with the heat from firepit, stone drill (partially hidden by feathers ) ta drill out cane fer foreshaft. Coulndt find my putt-putt wing bone drill fer this but stone will work just as good. Osceola turkey feathers fer fletch, hoko knife ta cut nocks and trim sinew. Coral sandin' stone and bigger one ta tap flake in cane when I split fer feathers. Flake ta clean out pith an split cane, sinew ta wrap, deer hide strip ta wrap around cane when I drill out cane fer foreshafts. Bamboo cup ta heat hide glue on side of firepit. Stick ta put hide glue on. Next step is ta build fire and get coals in firepit. More ta come............bob
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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can't wait for this one. this is gonna be sooo cool. thanks bob.
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nice. 8)
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Cool Bob, I will continue to follow this with great interest.
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I'm still a watchin ;D ;D..
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wow. skills u have my friend. and thats a relitivly short bow. what is her draw length and weight?
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Recurve.................draw length will be 26 " and weight around 50-53 lbs. Thx fer compliment.....bob
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BOB HAS GREAT SKILLS. I WISH I HAD YOUR SKILLS 8)
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thats a pretty good weight for a smalish bow. i always have to try for lower draw weight or my bows break.
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Thx David. Wish I had the skills my grandfather an the elders that showed me had......bob
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you do turly have a great rare skill. i am doing my best to get there, but i still have far, far, verry far to go.
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I'm loving this :). Thanks again Bob, this is absolutely amazing ;D! I wish I had just a ounce of your skill!
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Heres are teaser pictures. When I finish 2nd sinew course I will post pics of how I do it with the third course.Will finish arras and string while the third course dries.........bob
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bob, you're doing a great job teaching me................patience ;D
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Lookin good Bob.....John
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Bob I was not aware that the Seminoles backed bows with sinew. Is this your interpetation or do you have knowledge, just wondering. I've been asked to make a central Florida native archery exibit for a new museum in Apopka, your answer may change my bow design.
thanks,
Donnie
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Bob I was not aware that the Seminoles backed bows with sinew. Is this your interpetation or do you have knowledge, just wondering. I've been asked to make a central Florida native archery exibit for a new museum in Apopka, your answer may change my bow design.
thanks,
Donnie
Being a Seminole himself, I'm sure even his "interpretations" would be closer than what we think :D.
Besides, I believe he said his grandfather taught him first hand. I don't know how you could be better knowledge than that.
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Well, it does to me. I'm good.
possum
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I answered Donnie in a PM. To answer the question fer the rest of y'all NO its not my interpertation.................bob
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::) ::) ::) ::)
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I answered Donnie in a PM. To answer the question fer the rest of y'all NO its not my interpertation.................bob
I was just joking. Didn't mean to offend you.
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;)
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Ok here are the arrows done the ole way.I will post how I do one arrow later the ole way with no modern stuff and just keep repeating and ya get these. Hours invested are about 3 to this point , sans tool makin', with straightenin' cane, soakin' sinew and wrappin', feather prep and nock cuttin' and reaming.These need foreshafts next then points and the sinew wrap needs waterproofin. Nocks sanded down some with coral rock. Feathers will be trimmed with a end of a smolderin' stick. A touch up and ready ta go. Will be 1 stone, 1 seashell, 2 sharks teeth. All broadheads. 3 blunts and a skipper er 2. Tool is what I made and use ta clean pith out of cane and ream fer foreshaft. Its a split stick ( carrotwood ) with coconut wrap and a piece of hawg leg bone inserted and filed down with coral rock.................bob
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Them's lookin good Bob! Very educational - somethin I gotta get on in the next few days (arra's).
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those look great! thanks for taking the time to do this
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thanks bob. can't wait to see how you do it.
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They look great Bob. I too am looking forward to see how you do it.
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me wanna see one of them stickin in pig ;)
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Man I always seem to be late to the party! Great build along...I'm really enjoying it! :)
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Please show us some more ,Bob.
Ralph
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Been waiting six months for the next step or the finished bow....what gives Bob...SHOW US PLEASEEEEEE!!!
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;D ;D ;D ;D ::).
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I already talked to him about it. You have to PM for private lessons.
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So no more?