Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Knotty on June 26, 2016, 05:05:00 pm
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Hello bowyers and archers!
I hope to find you all in good health.
I'd like to share with you my experiences shooting with different types of bows,
When I first started shooting bows I was about 12 , arrow on left side of the bow , no arrow shelf, just instinctive shooting.
I never had luck with the "standard" shooting technique ,
So I started reading about different archery methods and stumbled upon Turkish archery,
from that moment I started to place the arrow on the right side of the bow (Which is considered wrong in traditional archery for a right handed archer),
My accuracy got alot better, but I still wasn't happy and started reading about Kyudo (Japanese Archery),
Their way of shooting was complex and the accuracy of the shots was very high, however, it was highly impractical for hunting or fast shooting (due to the many different stances)..
Which made me think, why not blend both of the styles, Japanese and Turkish to form my own way of shooting?
Today I shoot in the following way:
Instinctive aim, arrow placement I the right side of the bow,
Raise the bow while drawing it back and as soon as the string is released I rotate my wrist leaving the arrow with an extremely straight trajectory which is also highly accurate.
Has anyone ever shot this way?
What do you think about this method?
It definitely works for me!
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I do with my horn bows,,but with a thumb ring.
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Mhm, did you see any difference between the techniques Eddie?
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There is a big difference between shooting with a thumb ring and Mediterranean release.
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Indeed, and I actually prefer the thumb ring method!
I just feel alot more confident while shooting in that way, and that reflects with the accuracy of my shots.
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I've shot traditional for some time, both when I was younger and as an adult, then I took a long break from archery and when I came back to it I started with thumb ring and asiatic bows. I too much prefer this type of archery, feels much more the martial art to me and shooting in a historic recreation society that is the angle at which I approach archery, as a martial skill. I shoot kind of a combination of turkish and manchu styles.
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There is a big difference between shooting with a thumb ring and Mediterranean release.
Do you mind touching on those differences? I have been tossing the idea around of buying a thumb ring and trying it.
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That's kinda what I always thought, it just makes archery alot more interesting when adding history and cultures to it.
@Urufu_Shinjiro
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It's hard for me to imagine rotating the wrist upon release to be good practice.. How does that not rotate the whole bow including tips and thus move the string? I've never tried anything else besides the two under one over approach so I guess I should look into it
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Rotating the wrist , removes the whole bow from the string's way without preventing the power from being released unto the arrow,
Leaving the arrow with a straight trajectory.
I don't know if that makes it understandable?
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The string wouldn't track to the same place as before the rotation of the wrist.. Maybe it would be minimal... I get that if the handle was out of the way. The arrow would not have that resistance, like a drop away arrow rest but shifting the bow seems it would be similar to having a poor string alignment
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Well , if it has worked for hundreds and hundreds of years.. I'm pretty sure there's a reason 😂
And it does work for me, it just depends on how you're used to shooting and what works for ya!
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It's hard for me to imagine rotating the wrist upon release to be good practice.. How does that not rotate the whole bow including tips and thus move the string? I've never tried anything else besides the two under one over approach so I guess I should look into it
uh yeah it does... on purpose :P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9pcei7cRcU
Ishi did it as well!
I've tried it and it is very hard to be consistent, although it is possible to be very accurate with it. I now prefer to do minimal movement in the bow hand without actively trying to rotate the bow. I guess, with a relaxed wrist? (if collapsed like in Korean style, otherwise more like the "big eagle claw" described by Gao Ying which is mostly just medium wrist, ring and little apply little pressure to keep the bow steady, don't try to have the bow move on release, pad of index and middle rest on back of the bow? just from my understanding)
Either way, have you seen Murat Ozveri's videos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTZkrmM5hx4
I'd like to see a slow motion of the "forward khatra"..
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The way I do it is similar to the manchus in that my grip instead of being directly behind the bow is somewhat to the side, before draw I hold the bow up above my head and slightly in front of me with the arrow parallel to the ground. As I draw down and towards me (using back tension) this puts a very slight torque on the bow, so upon release the back tension pulls the bow slightly left and the mild torque twists the bow and when done properly the bow is entirely out of the way of the arrow and imparts very little paradox. As stated above this takes a lot of practice to be consistent with but is totally worth it when done right. This is one of the reasons I consider these asiatic shooting styles as more of a martial art as it is "harder" than regular traditional shooting in that there is more to keep track of and to practice and perfect than just consistently hitting your anchor points (I know I'm boiling down western shooting and not by any means saying it's easier as I know it takes a lot of work and practice to be good at as well, just trying to get my point across with my poor communication skills, lol).
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Yeah , that's pretty much what I do aswell.
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Interesting stuff!
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Indeed! 😊
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The way I do it is similar to the manchus in that my grip instead of being directly behind the bow is somewhat to the side, before draw I hold the bow up above my head and slightly in front of me with the arrow parallel to the ground. As I draw down and towards me (using back tension) this puts a very slight torque on the bow, so upon release the back tension pulls the bow slightly left and the mild torque twists the bow and when done properly the bow is entirely out of the way of the arrow and imparts very little paradox. As stated above this takes a lot of practice to be consistent with but is totally worth it when done right. This is one of the reasons I consider these asiatic shooting styles as more of a martial art as it is "harder" than regular traditional shooting in that there is more to keep track of and to practice and perfect than just consistently hitting your anchor points (I know I'm boiling down western shooting and not by any means saying it's easier as I know it takes a lot of work and practice to be good at as well, just trying to get my point across with my poor communication skills, lol).
Do you have a source of Manchus doing this? Maybe Scott Rodell? I thought no twist was applied to the bow in Manchu archery
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Maybe just the way I do the draw is manchu based, I've read so much research from various sources at this point I'm not sure, lol. I've read some manchu, a lot of turkish, some mongol, some hungarian etc. etc., lol. And every time I read about a new technique my shooting goes straight down the toilet for a bit while I work it all out again, I really need to stop researching, lol.
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Well the Japanese did that aswell Urufu , in Kyudo.
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I'll just call it semi-ottoman kyu-bow fu, lol.
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Hahaha, pretty simple eh? 👌
You know, as long as I can shoot an arrow and it hits the bullseye .. It doesn't matter how I shoot it. Lol
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This technique reminds me alot the pellet bow wrist rotation (btw i was shooting mine yesterday)
youtube video (not me in it):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gl6LDwVjn4
check for more on PA:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,50771.msg704970.html#msg704970
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It's called a Bodoque Slingshot in Brazil, and that's the wrist rotation I do , while shooting arrows and not rocks obviously. 😉
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You see so many different techniques I'm beginning to think it doesn't matter how you shoot. You could shoot standing on your head as long as you do exactly the same thing every time. I think that's why it takes a little time to learn a new method. It's just your subconscious compensating for your conscious silliness. Maybe some techniques suit some peoples physical abilities better than others but I think the main thing is practice practice practice. Once you get really sick of practice, you're starting to get there ;D
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Exactly @DC !
I could be shooting with my feet, holding the bow with my mouth (Probably not possible) but as long as I hit my target, I don't really care😅 lol
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Wow that pellet bow seems really fast... what is that, 30 yards and it looks like it hits instantly?!
Today after a long time of no shooting I had trouble with consistency, sometimes the arrow goes left and sometimes right (thumb draw) with a 20# bow. I aimed sort of with the arrowhead (right side of the bow, drawing with right hand, arrowhead to the left of the target is how it is almost all the time for me) with my thumb next to my lips, sort of like a short Turkish draw. The bow was too wide for me to convince myself not to torque it.. think other things could've affected it as well, such as my release and position or something
Then I have other days where I somehow make decent groupings...
I have one bow with light spined arrows and long thumb draw where the arrow actually went sort of to an aim point through the left edge of the handle
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How do you all aim with these techniques? Just shoot instinctive?
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Use the Force, Loon ;) ;)
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Yes loon, it's all instinctive shooting, or training Your non dominant eye to work the same for target practice.
👀
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It'll be hard to resist the temptation of "triangulating" with the arrowhead unless I have a lower draw hand at full draw..
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Well, I only changed my shooting style when I saw the others weren't effective for me.
If you try, even though you're already used to shooting Mediterranean Style, it's probably gonna be very hard for you .
It's not impossible, but it'll be hard.
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Lately I have found that if I concentrate on the target as I draw, then as I reach full draw focus on the arrow tip or shelf and release.