Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: FilipT on July 27, 2016, 02:25:24 pm
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Hi, I want to start making warbows and I am currently building heavier hazel longbow, that is supposed to be 70 - 80# at 32" to be as a entry to the whole warbow thing.
Problem is I have paracord 550 for tillering string and I wonder is it suitable for tillering the warbows. I noticed stretch of maybe 2, 3 inches while tillering black locust pyramid bow and I assume that will stretch like ridiculous with heavier bows.
Some guys use it for tillering but I don't understand why does it not stretch for them. I paid same price as everywhere I looked on internet and I bought it from outdoors/survival website.
Does that mean I got the fake one or that it varies in stretch from string to string?
Thanks
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You asked a question on the build along thread about dimensions of your bow that's not bending and I could probably answer some of it here. You won't be able to tiller effectively with a stretchy string. Get metal wire cord or thick rope for the tiller. You can get thin but very strong wire which wont stretch at all. That will help in the initial stages of tillering when the bows are really heavy and almost non-bending.
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I saw this: http://www.marinastores.hr/product/52-fishing-accessories/1181-superline-braided-dyneema-100-
This is in Croatian language and there is barely any information, but its supposed to be Dyneema rope for using for boats and such. It says that is available in 1, 2 and 3 mm of thickness. I know that individual strands of Dyneema are super strong and non stretchable, but this is some kind of rope, maybe its also good?
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Everything stretches, get proper role thick as can go through your pulleys.
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Everything stretches, get proper role thick as can go through your pulleys.
Not dyneema.....the only stretch you get with dyneema is what is engineered into the cord.
You can buy quality dyneema cord at any rock climbing shop. It is what is used for slings. Ask them for '3mm accessory cord'. The strength of dyneema cord for a given diameter is crazy. I've taken some big falls onto thin slings...;) I remember a friend of mine who has a farm trying to break some old dyneema slings with their biggest tractor....now that was a fun day :)
Or go to a specialist fishing shop and get some 49 strand wire trace (sharks etc) and some 'double crimps'.
Paracord comes in various different types go to the Bushcraft store to see the differences.
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Ian, I didn't get what you said. Did you mean this Dyneema rope is suitable for both tillering string and for use on the pulleys?
Mike, did you see link I posted, did your friend use that, its also 3 mm in diameter?
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If you are going to make more than one bow, make a decent tillering string with big loops out of some decent material like fastflite. Make it longer than the longest bow you will ever make!
Then make a string adjuster, I made a ring of aluminium, but an ball race or similar will do the job. This has one great advantage... you can thread the string through your ali' ring to effectively shorten it, twisting up will give fine adjustment. When you are ready to brace, you just thread the string through the loop one more time. Once it is adjusted for correct brace, you can use this string to set up your string making jig to make a perfect length string. (I'm talking continuous loop strings)
If you look at this latest post on my blog you'll see the Ali' ring on the right side of the string in both pics.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/yew-60-pounder-near-as-dammit-finished.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2016/07/yew-60-pounder-near-as-dammit-finished.html)
Del
Other advice is also available... it's wrong.. but it is available ;)
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Cool bow, Del. I like your idea for string adjuster. Do you use timber hitch on one end or there are loops on both ends and that ring?
Biggest problem with all that materials is that they are not available in my country. I would have to buy them from outside and pay expensive shipping prices. So I am constantly looking for alternatives.
When I made my bows I always made them in some standard nock to nock length so I could buy finished string from one website. Unfortunately that archery website does not sell any of the string material.
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Loops on both ends. I think the timber hitch/bowyers knot is just a pain with modern string materials as they are naturally slippy.
There's a sketch of how I make a continuous loop string here... I've made a decent string making jig since then, but it shows what I mean... some people don't understand "continuous loop string"
https://sites.google.com/site/delsbows/bow-making-info (https://sites.google.com/site/delsbows/bow-making-info)
Del
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Thanks Del. So you make this tillering string with two loops and then you put that ring in middle for adjusting?
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Btw, Del, have you ever considered using thin steel cable as a tillering string, like Ian said in beginning of this thread?
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Btw, Del, have you ever considered using thin steel cable as a tillering string, like Ian said in beginning of this thread?
Yes and I dismissed it when I was about 14 years old making crossbows from car springs.
Hideous idea IMO
Del
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Thanks Del. So you make this tillering string with two loops and then you put that ring in middle for adjusting?
Yes, exactly...
It lets you adjust the "long string" to be just long enough to slip on to start with, you then can adjust for low brace, and eventually full brace. It the gives you the exact length for making the real string.
You make a string like that and make/find an adjuster and you'll never regret it. Or I'll give you your money back!
Del
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I'll do what you say but I have trouble finding your method on internet in close up. I saw wooden ring method on your wobbly yew bow. So you push string through ring (made of metal or wood) and when you want to shorten it, you take one end and go through the ring again, and again to shorten it more. Did I get that correctly? Does that wear out string?
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I'll do what you say but I have trouble finding your method on internet in close up. I saw wooden ring method on your wobbly yew bow. So you push string through ring (made of metal or wood) and when you want to shorten it, you take one end and go through the ring again, and again to shorten it more. Did I get that correctly? Does that wear out string?
Yes that's the idea. The string wear is pretty minimal and irrelevant as you are not shooting with the string so it doesn't take mush strain. If you make big loops and serve them tight, they will fit over even a roughed out stave. The loops get plenty of wear, but again it diesn't really matter. The ring can me made of anything tough enough not to break, I originally had a wooden one but the string digs into it, nylon would work, or any metal, but an old bearing works ok too.
Del
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Thanks Del
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Here's an earlier version I used before I realised a simple ring worked just as well and was easier to make! ::)
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/left-handed-testing.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/left-handed-testing.html)
Del
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I have similar things to this at home and rings too. What inside diameter of ring you use and how much shortening of string can it do?
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I have similar things to this at home and rings too. What inside diameter of ring you use and how much shortening of string can it do?
OD 37mm (Outside Diameter)
ID 16mm (Inside Diameter)
Thickness 10mm
Each turn through it changes the string by about 1", twisting will give fine adjustment.
It could do to maybe be a bit thinner, or smaller OD as 1" is a little too much. The ID is about right as it allows you to thread the string through the hole nicely.
Del
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Thank you. So it seems you don't really need put much loops through the ring for adjusting.
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550 Paracord is absolutely fine for tillering. I've used exactly that on all my bows, up to 145lb or so.
Remember you should only be using it to get the tips of a bow bending 6", at which point you fit a proper string and tiller from brace height.
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That makes sense, as after tips go past 6" of movement, stretch really shows. I don't know does your 550 stretches after that.
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I don't use it past that point.
What Ian said is important though - if you've got anything stretchy in the setup you'll struggle to work properly. If you've got poor quality 550 that might happen, but I'd be surprised. I know you don't have a tiller set up yet, so when you get your pulleys and rope try the 550 again as it should work just fine.
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Ok, thanks, but planning at using spectra fishing braid as both tillering string material and regular string in the future.
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Ditch the 550!
Climbing accessory cord.....It is in another league :)
Del - fastflight is dyneema :)
Personally I make a fastflight string with about 20 strands.
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http://www.paracordguild.com/paracord-types/
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Ditch the 550!
Climbing accessory cord.....It is in another league :)
Del - fastflight is dyneema :)
Personally I make a fastflight string with about 20 strands.
Yes indeed... I use Fastflite as a generic name for one of the plethora of modern low stretch materials AstroFlite, Angel Majesty et al... what I really mean is anything better than Dacron!
Del
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Has anybody tried FARMERS 10,000 its great for tillering and has many other uses . ;)
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A while ago I switched to Del's technique, and I find it to be the cat's pajamas ;) I use a continuous loop string for tillering, made from Fast Flight, with both loops served. Use it right to the end of tilllering, and when the bow is done, I use it to make a proper string of the correct length. That way the string serving on the "good string" isn't roughed up during the tillering process.